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Moche

Encouraging Grouping for Leveling

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while i know the current combat group XP system has been in place for a long time here in the emulator it was not the system used in live. i believe that it discourages people from trying to go out and find a combat group to level with, instead they'll do combat jobs that are significantly faster to level at than the current grouped combat system.

i'm a little hazy on the exact range but i believe it was anyone within 10 CL's of you in live that you could group with and still get your full level appropriate group share. that may sound unclear, so for example, right now the highest CL in the group determines the XP everyone gets, so a CL 50 in a group determines what the XP is for the group and everyone gets that same ammount. instead of in live where yeah there was still a group split and bonus in place but you got your own personal level apropriate reward before that was factored. so a CL 41 grouped with a CL 50 would get great XP if they were killing CL 50-55 mobs together not just get the same as the CL 50 player.

this was a great mechanic, in that people would constantly post their level and looking for groups and you'd hang out in the same areas and find pickup combat groups. instead we now constantly see "go to station X and do X level jobs", that is a solo system.

the current system was put in place before jobs when you could make the argument that there were not enough people on at any given time to even find a combat group in your level range and so to encourage grouping it'd be nice to be able to group with anyone and still get a share. now even though there are only 100-200 people at any given time of day, we have many toons each, some with 3 accounts of toons, so it would not be unreasonable to immagine that you could indeed find a group in your level range and that that group could be more fun, interactiuve, and lucrative than the current jobbing system.

i really don't remember anyone hanging out doing solo combat jobing in live, it was always better to be with friends, but as is you can go 1 jump in any direction of the station you get the job, make 6 kills in 15 min and get more xp than twice that time hunting. i think you should up the travel distance to more like 3 jumps away for combat jobs and enstate the combat level range system so that you could get help from other players to push past those last couple levels till new weapons, and well to recreate that culture of "lets go hunt together".

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[quote name='Moche' timestamp='1306261692' post='41109']
... as is you can go 1 jump in any direction of the station you get the job, make 6 kills in 15 min and get more xp than twice that time hunting. i think you should up the travel distance to more like 3 jumps away for combat jobs and enstate the combat level range system".
[/quote]

lol we did that originally but we just got heaps of complaining they were explore jobs not combat jobs. <sigh> I guess you can't please everyone. Maybe the combat jobs are giving too much XP?

I don't fully understand the levelling mechanic change you're asking for. Could you break it down a bit for my poor brain to understand please? Are you asking for the level restriction cut off to be removed or changed?

A CL41 grouped with a CL50 should still get bonuses - do you mean that if the two of you zap a CL50 mob, the CL41 guy should get the XP as if they had killed a CL50 mob (ie 8000 - the top limit), whereas the CL50 guy would just get base XP (1000).

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TB quote
A CL41 grouped with a CL50 should still get bonuses - do you mean that if the two of you zap a CL50 mob, the CL41 guy should get the XP as if they had killed a CL50 mob (ie 8000 - the top limit), whereas the CL50 guy would just get base XP (1000).


This was the case in live, group members got xp according to there cl lvl and not what the biggest cl member got, at some point they implemented the 10 or 15 lvl cut off, don't remember exactly but it was around there, so ppl dint just group a lvl 50 cl with a lvl 5 cl and just power lvl to max.
Same formula was used in mining, each group member got according to there el and not just a fixed rate split amongst them, and the more in group the better el they got as a bonus, if I'm not mistaking now that's not the case, the more in group the less each one gets. Edited by Rezwalker

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ok thanks for the clarity.

Yes from when I played during live I remember it being like that too, as the first time I went on a group combat hunt I remember getting silly XP for combat, and the main guy saying he didn't get much. You had to be careful with that yourself because if you went combat level heavy it really crippled your solo fighting.

Applying it to mining would work too - since the cut-off is a natural limit anyway - low level miners can't take the high level ores on board so shouldn't be out group mining with the high level players anyway, so wouldn't get any XP. You'd still need to be within 10 Explore levels of the top guy.

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i did not remember there being a group level limmit for mining but then mining is most efficient in a certain level range so you would tend to favor appropriate level fields anyway. i think it also tends to be a solo activity so that you keep the hidden fields your secret, but i'll admit i did have one mining buddy...

i think rez clarified accurately. i don't know the formulas that apply when you group to share xp. but more or less as he stated, it used to be like that here on the emulator too iirc but here there was not a level range cap so you had stupid power leveling.

i do remember fondly every time i got new weapons on my PW in live going out and finding what i could kill easily for decent xp then getting as many level appropriate lowbies as i could from my guild or even just posting in market that a certain level range was welcome to join me for some fast and fun leveling, I met a couple friends/new guildies that way.

ohh yeah and you're right Tienbau the job XP is on the high side and while i agree that convenience of combat locatoins is nice, it was not that way in live. E&B had fairly soft prompts to group but making the leveling easier was one way. soloing should always be at least a little harder.


thinking about it more, i'm not even sure that it was a solid within 10 levels rule. it may have been that grouping within a certain % of your level was ok so that the higher the level you are the wider the range you can group... it's just been too long for me to remember clearly.

that would still be somewhat discouraging at lower levels so i'm thinking you might need a base level range of 5 in either directoin that you could group, that would scale with level till you can do up to 10 at CL 50. Edited by Moche

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ok I'll make a few changes and then you can give me some feedback on where to go from there.

yep grouping should definitely be better than solo.

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[quote]ok I'll make a few changes and then you can give me some feedback on where to go from there.

yep grouping should definitely be better than solo. [/quote]

imho grouping should be [b]ALOT[/b] better than jobs and can you post here when/if you change it?
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8 Levels is the limit TB. After that combat experience [b]SHOULD[/b] fall off dramatically. This helps prevent the park and pay behavior that sprung up in live for powerleveling. I know because I vended those services prior to that patch in teh live game because it was the most viable way for me to make lots of credits. (plus I did it for almost all of my guildmembers and they in turn, I believe the phrase is "paid it forward" to other guild members after them.)

Send me the math you have for their XP and we'll work something out that's beneficial to all, but doesn't allow for the park and pay stuff. Mining too, for that matter. I have a rough idea of what they expected you to be able to earn per hour in the live game, so we'll go and either 1.5 or 2x that.
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Here is how it was live: When it first started it was xp to lvl divided by number in group + grouping bonus.
So a CL20 and a CL10 grouped fighting a CL20 would break down like this: the CL20 would get 2k xp /2 =1000+ ( I think group 20)= 1020.
The CL10 on the other hand made out like a bandit : 4k xp/2= 2k+ (group 20)=2020. This would be even if he didn't fire a single shot/buff ANYTHING. If the disparity between the upper CL member and the lower was larger it even got worse a CL5 would get 8k /2=4k +20= 4020 for doing nothing!

This fast devolved into power leveling services...guilds would offer power leveling to get new players to join their guild over another and people would be CL30 in 1 night of sitting around doing nothing. To make it even worse there was a bottom lvl xp return on kills. I.E. you would get at least 100 xp for a kill even if you was CL50 and the mob was CL2...so PW with shield nova...well go figure how fast you can lvl killing 15 something in 2 sec @ 100 xp ea. and if they was grouped with low lvl toons O.0!

This was severly unbalancing. Thus the first thing they did was drop the xp in half like the 3rd week in. Then they narrowed the xp range to CL10 and no 100xp for any kill. This didn't stop the PLing (power leveling). So then they based all the xp gain on higher player lvl vs. mob. So a CL50 killing a CL 50 got his 1k xp solo and 500xp +20 for group but the junior member of group only got that as well, no huge xp because of mob CL disparity for them.

This slowed the PLing way down..but those that comprehend the xp bars etc. get this: each bar takes more xp to fill the bar. What takes a CL50 to fill his bar is much less for a CL25 to fill his bar, so factoring the group bonus in its still PLing...just not at such a insane rate. The junior member will get several bars of CL before the CL50 even fills one.

I would argue that to MUCH of a group bonus is
A. an inbalance and
B. discriminatory
Remember with 2 or more members in a group they should have a much faster kill rate, or take down larger mobs for higher xp base pool. The sit and be leveled crap is just well..WRONG...they aren't really playing..why be rewarded for doing nothing? To get a xp reward they should at a minimum have to do SOMETHING...even if its just heals or buffs/debuffs.

Yes peeps multiboxing would get ripped if they didn't alt/tab toons..so maybe eliminate group bonus for no action..or halving..SOMETHING.

About the "jobs pay too much not fair", do those complainers ACTUALLY do the terminals?
A. terminal competition..if you are doing jobs and someone else is, then there aren't enough jobs and you may have to wait 2 or more refreshes...thats 5 min. ea so 15 minutes to GET the jobs.
B.Travel time to combat. You have to travel at least 1 sector away, then travel to the nav of mob, then kill it for xp. If you are taking 6 jobs you aren't taking those at the same nav (even if the jobs popped up like that..they RARELY do) or you are going to get pwned. So add travel time to 2nd or more navs. Then travel BACK to terminal and repeat.
C.Termina1 vs. Camping, you can go camp and kill same lvl mobs for 1k xp ea. and as fast as they spawn and you kill you get 1k xp. for the time you sit at terminal and travel to and from nav. you can kill many multiples of mobs at 1k ea. far exceeding the terminal rate of xp.
D.Loot and trade xp. If you do the camp method you are getting loot appropriate for mob lvl repeatedly..so stacks of loot that can be traded for trade xp, and you may get some rare drop etc. The terminal method you don't get stacks of stuff, and much of the loot from job mobs is seriously off for lvl of mob.
E.Why do terminals then? Well combat xp yes..but EXPLORE xp not trade. And survivablity....many of the camp mobs are in groups or in areas with aggroable mobs...if you're solo you may not be able to do that..were a terminal mob is you and them...even a non combat type like JE or TT can go mono-a-mono on terminal mob.
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Then there was PL explore :s...never existed. The miner mined for ores and got x amount for ea unit, in group that was cut per group member + 10%, not the 20% per member of combat. So mine 1 unit of apollo @ lvl get 20xp. Grouped with 1 other get 10 +1=11 for you and 11 for the other group member...wow PL :).

It did however get exploited in a way. Someone would park a grouped member in a safe spot, like near a gate turret and then go to lunch or sleep. They never contributed and never was at risk from field guardians, but all those 11xp would add up in places like arduinne and they would come back from nap with a couple of explore lvls.

To stop this they made a proximity thing, if the grouped member wasn't within x km of miner then no xp. at first this was a real problem because even when the out of range member didnt get the xp, the miner wasn't getting the whole amount of xp by default. Also the range was to short because many would group for guard duty/mine, the warrior type would pull guard duty fighting off the field guardians and the miner would mine as fast as possible, both getting the advantage of CL and EL each needed so bad. But often the range was so short that a kiting TE would drop out of xp zone. They tweeked the range several times and I think it was settled on 100km or so.

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Ok Kyp will do.

WRT the ranges, how about an activity check combined with a range check? Say a player is within 100k, but they haven't mined or fought anything for 10 mins. I think they should not get XP, but at the same time the existing members who do mine or fight should get an increased share of the XP, as if the additional player wasn't there. This would help stop 'leechers' who genuinely need to be away for a bit (dinner, exercise whatever) not get booted, because they aren't causing anyone to lose XP. When they do come back and start mining they'd instantly start getting group XP again when they fought or mined.

What do you think?

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that second part sounds good, if you limit them to about 20-30 mins, that allows for time to eat dinner without rushing too much and prevents the pay and stay stuff at least to an annoying enough extent to mostly stop it, I think.

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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1306723364' post='41367']
that second part sounds good, if you limit them to about 20-30 mins, that allows for time to eat dinner without rushing too much and prevents the pay and stay stuff at least to an annoying enough extent to mostly stop it, I think.
[/quote]

what I meant was that in live if you were grouped and weren't active for a while you tended to get booted because the rest of the group were getting less XP with you being there doing nothing.

If after 10 mins you stopped getting XP, the existing members would be less likely to boot you because they would no longer be losing XP. So you'd be able to go off, do your thing, come back and still be grouped and continue again.

I didn't mean for the 10 mins to be like a deadline or anything like that, but I guess thinking about it, it may become a race to see if you can do your thing before the XP drop kicks in, so maybe 30 mins like you suggest would be better ...

Also - yeah a couple of times I was that guy in Arduinne who grouped up, did a bit of mining and then I'd be off for a couple of hours and hope that I'd still be grouped and my XP was up a fair bit. Worked sometimes too ;)

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Personally, hate grouping.

I dislike waiting for anyone else before I can get to play. I don't always have alot of time, and I don't want to waste it with the "Lets go here! No, I don't like it there, lets go here!" battles in most groups. Lets not forget those who will get in a group, form up, then go afk for 20 minutes, soaking up exp for no contribution.

I like the fact I can log in, go somewhere and hunt/job/explore at my leisure. Leave the jobs as is, and give the grouping folks a bonus, if necessary. Currently, the only groups I've seen are single player/multiple toons leveling them together, or using them as canaries to get explore exp. Either way, I don't think it will increase the amount of grouping.

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i go on vacation for a week and people are taking the thread off track... the point of my post was that this is/was an mmo that did reward grouping without really disadvantaging solo players much and we're all trying to get back to that. while the present job system is so potentially lucrative that it makes little sense to group for anything other than raids. i'm not trying to nerf jobs, take jobs, away, or force grouping, i just want to see grouping returned to what it was/should be, somewhat more beneficial than doing everything solo.

along these lines, i was trying to find original information on the grouping xp breakdown, the closest i found discussed grouping xp bonuses but not the division of xp and it was here: http://ebiia.net/Newbie2.shtml it also had a bit toward the middle discussing capped/rollover xp. it claims 80% rolls over and i believe we currently have a 50% rollover. does anyone remember this?

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We actually have the original developer documents and the numbers, 80% of your xp earned in the 50 level is then split equally (50%) amongst the remaining two bars. That's how it works now unless TB or someone has changed it since I've last looked.

In regards to grouping, you are welcome to make some suggestions as to what would improve combat and make it worthwhile but consider this with your suggestions, you shouldn't make much more than about 30-45k experience per hour on average. This is what you could make grinding jobs (they may be a lil higher than this at this point though).

I intend to sit down and do some math on the xp curve after I finish with my current high priority alpha list. ;)

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A while back it was reduced from 80% to 50% spillover. The 50% was then divided among any remaining bars below L50. Has that been changed back to 80%?

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Was just about to point out that from experience it is 50% that spills over.

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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1307061008' post='41559']
We actually have the original developer documents and the numbers, 80% of your xp earned in the 50 level is then split equally (50%) amongst the remaining two bars. That's how it works now unless TB or someone has changed it since I've last looked.
[/quote]

I was told to change it *ages* ago so that it was 50% spillover, split equally between the other two bars, so 25% into each. So we want to change it so that 80% is split between the other two bars? I'll get that in before the sync restart.

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1307061008' post='41559']
In regards to grouping, you are welcome to make some suggestions as to what would improve combat and make it worthwhile but consider this with your suggestions, you shouldn't make much more than about 30-45k experience per hour on average. This is what you could make grinding jobs (they may be a lil higher than this at this point though).
[/quote]

Yeah from what I've seen combat jobs especially are giving extremely high XP. If they'd have given that much XP in the live game for so easy a kill I'd have done them a lot more. Should we be picking a mob that's the same level as the player or keep the ones that are a certain level? I recall the job mobs being fairly hard to kill.

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1307061008' post='41559']
I intend to sit down and do some math on the xp curve after I finish with my current high priority alpha list. :)
[/quote]

that would be good. We need to get a bit more balance before we go to alpha. My feeling is more XP for group activities like mining, good XP for patrol work, maybe a 'keep alive' bonus for warriors protecting miners and doing a good job? Slightly less XP for combat jobs with a maximum cap coming into play.

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The job mobs live were a indeed a bit harder, if you took to lvl. it was job lvl /3 + 1 or 2. So L75 combat job mob was 75/3= 25+ 1 or 2= L26 or 27 mob. The mobs were existing mobs and at then lvl of resists and skills etc. They were weighted more to hulled types +1 like zensai and drones and anseria types (psi, mordana etc). The bio mobs were usually the +2 variety and were weighted to poprock types or orobous.

On another note. Don't know if its a bug or intended. If intended it needs to be re-thunk, especially as it screws the non-combat types and they are already taking a hit on xp by not taking to lvl.

Problem: taking combat missions under you're maxium possible lvl nets truely curtailed xp job bonus.

Example: Trader is OL 100 25/25/50. COULD take jobs at 105 terminal. But as they are combat light, decides to take combat jobs at L75 terminal I.E. mobs 25-27 range. The quoted combat job reward is 5kish xp. Trader kills job mob, actual reward is: 1k CL xp for mob kill, 250 CL xp and 750 EL xp as job bonus. Total xp for a quoted job of 5k = 2k actual.

The time they spent taking jobs, traveling 1 sector for combat and killing job mobs nets them 2k x 6 jobs =12k xp net.
For the same time spent they could have taken L105 explore jobs x6 @ 7kish ea.= 42k xp net (both trade and explore xp) and traveled 2 sectors done them, returned and started on another batch and started traveling on them. (this is even shortened further if its near WH nodes and a taxi)

If you extend this beyond the L50 trade bar and the 50% spillage..even at -50% the trade/explore jobs net more.

For 2k xp you get for a lower tier job mob you need only kill 2 mobs to lvl for same xp. You can kill dozens in same time frame without job and come out way ahead with loot and credit award.

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*Sarcasm on*

At the same time why not change the system so that warrior type characters can mine to get explore exp, get more buildskills and negotiate to get better trade exp as the other classes are in favour.

*Sarcasm off*

In other words, do what your class is strong at and let exp spill over (all classes have to do this), or group up with others to gain exp in the field you are missing it.

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[quote name='Ramses' timestamp='1307092783' post='41595']
*Sarcasm on*

At the same time why not change the system so that warrior type characters can mine to get explore exp, get more buildskills and negotiate to get better trade exp as the other classes are in favour.

*Sarcasm off*

In other words, do what your class is strong at and let exp spill over (all classes have to do this), or group up with others to gain exp in the field you are missing it.
[/quote]
*sarcasm button off* but then I'm not a electrician what if the button shorts and arcs open.....?

Um they do? A warrior can take EXPLORE jobs or TRADE jobs at the terminal and get the full amount of eachs xp that all other characters can, at the same rate in fact as others get. To follow your arguement out, then maybe we need to nerf explore/trade jobs..it needs to look to see if its a warrior taking it and nerf his xp gain from it to make it fair to other classes.

Do you know why the job terminals were put in live? Because toons were getting imbalanced and there was no easy way to mitigate this..so warriors were winding up 50/25/25 and explorers 25/50/25 and traders 25/25/50. As a warrior you should appreciate just how bad that could be..a OL100 toon with L7 shields against aL50 mob...not a good combo if you don't like to take up perminent residency in towsville.

Since a explorers xp gain is also based on EL at L50 explore they have to mine L8-9 stuff to get xp..most L8-9 resources were camped by high lvl guardians....once again not a good combo for a low shield toon.

A traders xp gain is based on TL they had to do the fenris<>somerled run, LONG without BBW...to get RD faction you have to combat mobs for it. Once again hard to do without good shields but in traders case without high level weapons a LONG per mob process.

So they put in terminals so folks COULD level other bars to try and maintain balance and appropriate level gear to stay in it to win it. Please explain the logic to handycapping non-warrior types in balancing their bars.

Like I said, the nonwarrior is already taking a hit in potential xp by taking lower lvl combat job to begin with. At 2k ea per job what would be the point? You can get that in to "at level" kills...even a nonwarrior can do that much faster than taking jobs and back and forth. Yet the warrior is retaining the ability to get fast and easy T/E jobs.

As a warrior do you want the T/E jobs nerfed? Just relize how hard pressed you are going to be to get explore and trade xp....you do comprehend that grouped explore with hunt/mine groups was pathetic at best. And is still pathetic in most instances. That the old way of getting trade xp other than endless trade runs was the loot drops from antares and cooper...and those don't currently give diddly in trade xp. That the only way other than jobs and a very few content missions to get explore xp is mining and tour groups..until now people just created a alt on another account and run tour for xp..but in reality upper lvl tourers should if it was like live get near 0 xp for touring navs..even in a group.

Kindly walk in a trader or explorers shoes before you argue that 1 type of xp from jobs should be nerfed.

IDEALLY jobs should offer just under what could be gained from a player type could get in group IF all in group are participating...the warrior/explorer/trader increasing the kill rate, so more mobs, faster, mitigates the split + group bonus. Then a player that CHOOSES not to group (either becuase friends aren't on atm or time contraints or just becuase they don't want the hassle...whatever) can STILL advance a bar in some form.

As to your spill the bar quip...its FAR easier to spill combat bar to other bars for a warrior than it is for a explorer to spill explore bar to others....trust me I know..I have 1 of EVERY class and 8 of them are maxxed, and had to do the spillage route to achieve it.

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Woaaah, hold your horses Matt, my posted was never directed at you :D Give me a few to see what you are yapping about.

EDIT 1: Your first post. Ok I see why you thought I was flaming you. However your logic is flawed with the non warrior classes and jobs. Same exp for all classes doing the 75 jobs even though they could do the 105.

Second point, you are using a trader as an example, both TT and PP could do the lvl 105 combat jobs while sleeping at the levels you describe, can't say anything about the jenpie version as I haven't played it (if it can't do it maybe some tweaking is needed to bring them in line between each other). That brings us to the third point, some of the combat mobs are indeed too easy.

Fourth point, The non-combat class in your example can kind of blame themselves for getting into a position were they are so unbalanced that they can't do the described combat job (or if using your example need to rethink how they are playing as it would be very easy to complete). Using your example one would think that you want them to redesign the game to suite a player that got unbalanced rather than maybe learning how to go around the problem instead. There are loads of ways to level your characters combat exp, not just from grinding combat jobs.

EDIT 2: Your second post. All jobs offer same exp for all classes. Some classes are stronger in their own fields than others. This means that warriors are better at combat jobs and explorers at explore jobs. Traders should be best at tradejobs due to their speed advantage along with negotiation to get more exp. I see no reason what so ever to change that so a class would have an easier time completing a job just cause it is not the field they are strong in, can you explain why you want a trader that is best at combat?

I have no idea why terminals were put into the game in live, it seems like you do? I didn't know we had old staff from EA/Westwood playing this game, you should help the designers with their problems more closely then.

As a last point I can inform you that my first character on this server was a 150JE, my second was a PP. My higest level warrior is a pw at lvl 103. So before accusing other players get your facts straight. I had NO problem whatsoever to level either of them to 150 even though both of them were extremly unbalanced with very low combat. This makes me think that you have no idea how to play your non warrior classes.

To think that I sent you a PM to aologise for an other post I made just in case you thought I was offensive and get this from you instead. A work well done indeed.

No, ideally there would be no jobs what so ever in the game. Only missions from NPC and grinding.

PS. having XX classes maxed does NOT necessarily mean that one knows everything or even how to play their own classes to their best advantage.

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First I didn't get you're PM I guess, I was highlighting a problem and weither intended or not sarcasm to it was what seemed to be put out.

Thats the point I was making..its a bit harder for a non warrior to rapidly gain combat xp..but easier in their forte ( trader= trade, explorer= explore), I was asking why have they made the lower lvl combat jobs give a supernerfed amount of xp even though it quotes a firm figure (like 5k for this job) but once done it only awards a max of 2k. While the other taken at lower level does not do this. A 25/25/50 taking a L75 combat job gets 2k xp ea, but the same 25/25/50 taking a L75 explore or trade job gets just that..what the xp quote is.

As a warrior would strategicly take explore or trade jobs to boost a bar to stay balanced, so too would a trader or explorer take a combat job, (1 on 1 combat with a mob they can handle for a concrete xp award), as I was pointing out that the combatant might choose a job mob more in line with their skill level, the nerfing of combat jobs vs OL it set the nonwarriors at a distinct disadvantage.

Were as if a warrior was to take a lower lvl job (don't know why they would as there is no risk inherant in those jobs) unless it was as they was on their way through and was doing a 2 birds 1 stone thing. However they wouldn't suffer a nerfed amount of xp loss on a explore/trade job.

As to inbalance of characters, I was indeed in prebeta through sunset, indeed the terminals were put in as a balancer...explore xp was a true booger to aquire, the maps that are in now were not that extensive then, there was no "taking a tour" route to xp, a higher lvl toon touring others was really and truely leeching explore xp as they wouldnt get any at their lvl..so that lower lvl player didn't relise that once they ran the map they was screwed, they basicly gave up half their potential EL unknowingly for that tour. thus the terminals were instituted.

I'm not asking for redesign, I'm asking why the nerf that was inbalancing, combat jobs but not the others, and if so WHY anyway..what was the thought behind the change..was there some huge exploit or scarcety of jobs because L150 were somehow attracted to L75 jobs for some unknown reason?

I'm not asking for a "better at combat tt" actually traders dont get better xp from terminals, just from npc. What I was trying to highlight is that a warrior could rapidly gain CL through a camp or easly doing at level jobs..were other classes can't gain it so easy from a camping nor as efficently from at lvl combat jobs. As the nerf only killed the xp from combat, the warrior wouldnt be punished as a other class would be.

SPECIFICLY that it gives a xp gain quote at the terminal, but in actuality it wasn't that amount, was it a error or a stealth nerf, if the latter, why? What would be the reasoning?

Much of the content isn't in..its comeing I know, but as nonwarriors are dependant on missions or some kind of grind to achieve their xp (mining, trade runs) until that content is in to draw off of....warriors have a distinct advantage in xp gains through their route, while the others don't, terminals are a mitigator, until the content is in, my point (I guess) is terminals shouldn't be nerfed. A warrior has another advantage without the terminals, currently trading of loot between toons nets 2x trade..this helps them fend off inbalance, other classes get gobbs of trade, what is their route to fend off inbalance?...terminals.

Yes I know the general throw out.."well group". Yes, but that goes only so far, for myriad of reasons people don't, can't or won't group, a MMO is suppost to be multi pathed, they have done (through whatever has happened) closed off a path, this is a bad thing..expand horizons not closed :D

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TB & all:

It is supposed to be that once maxed, xp earned in that category 80% of total experience earned then spills over to remaining and is split 50/50, unless they changed it in a patch after I left the game and reduced it that was the deal. One of those things you had to know to be in the powerleveling business was how to most efficiently get people leveled up, that was part of it. :D

TB:

I think the mob levels should be static and tied to the job's level. I'm not sure how you create the jobs right off because I haven't looked into that code but that's more or less how it worked in the live game. The combat level/difficulty level of the job would spawn a mob inside whatever range was tied to that job level, Pretty sure that range was 4-5 combat levels maximum no matter what level the player was. That was how you knew when you had to move to higher level jobs. I'd suggest we do a tech level calculation based on the player's skill level, then split all known mob combat levels across those. That way we have 9 groups to split up to say 55 or 60 (yes we could do 66, but that'd be a hell of a job mob!) So figuring that way:

50/9 = 5.555556, so 6 levels per tech level. We then take the mobs and examine how you're doing the jobs generation to determine what tech levels we want to do, and pick a mob level range. I think from there we could come up with something interesting, we can continue that discussion below so as not to spoil all the surprise before its done! :D

Aye and the math thing is definitely one of my next big to-dos. I promised everyone we'd give faction a lil more in-depth too a while back, I made that post in the dev section but we haven't had enough time to go in great detail yet.

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