Making Gas ore useful!

[MW2366]

At least I gave them an OPTION to use ammo in the phases, they can still use their basic beams like any other, but I'm giving customizability with my stratics here... I DON'T FEEL like the Jenqs should require ammo, but I also want to add to it rather than giving them an example of prison food of "here you go, this is what you get." I want to add possibilities, not restrictions.

[Yuritau]

At least I gave them an OPTION to use ammo in the phases, they can still use their basic beams like any other, but I'm giving customizability with my stratics here... I DON'T FEEL like the Jenqs should require ammo, but I also want to add to it rather than giving them an example of prison food of "here you go, this is what you get." I want to add possibilities, not restrictions.

As optional weapon buffing items, that makes a whole heck of a lot more sense. And versions of it could be applied with roughly equal effect to each of the three weapon categories.

Beams could get gasses that improve their ability to focus the beam (range increase). Or gasses that amplify their intensity (dmg increase).

Projectiles could get condensed gasses that act as coolants, meaning less cooldown time between shots (reload decrease). Or condensed gas lubricants that reduce the energy required (less energy per shot).

Missiles could get compressed gasses that increase missile maneuverability (shot gets there faster, and has a small impact dmg bonus). Or liquified gasses that add explosive/chemical dmg to each missile, depending on the gas type.

Using a buff item model like that also opens up the option to buff other equipment. Combustible gasses added to engines for temporary speed increases. Reactive gasses fed into reactors for increased regen, or even small instant energy gains. Same for shields. I don't think there should ever be gas buffs to reactor or shield capacity though, just regen and instant regen.

You'd have to balance the system somehow though, or you'd end up with people using 5 gas buffs at once and tearing the universe apart solo. I would suggest a max of 1 gas buff at a time. Using a second gas buff item cancels the first one. Even the instant regen ones, if you use an instant regen item, it cancels whatever gas buff you were using. Also, the instant regen items would have to be pretty costly, and not all that powerful, or they'd get out of hand easily. Finally, make it so you can only use gas buff items that are EQUAL tech level to your relevant equipment.

[Tyran]

Beam ammo and gasses are not related at all...and it makes no sense even with sci-fi logic.

The gas is enclosed in a laser in the same way it is enclosed in a light bulb. It is not expended.

Therefore the only beam ammo that makes any real sense is reactor juice...

[Vinzent Zeppelin[IS]]

The other day I did a little bit of research into each ore level 6 and up and organized them into categories based on their applications, to determine which ore is typically only useful in its refined form, and which ore has no or few practical uses and should merely be sold to a vendor. Those in the "junk" category are those which are only used in a small number of vendor-available parts, those used for components which are not in the loot tables, and those which literally are not used in anything. The ore not in either of these lists should be kept raw. Of the gasses, six from level 6-9 are in the "junk" category and four are in the "refine" category.

Junk

Anthenicite, Barite, Boragon, Charon Crystal, Charon's Dust, Conorite, Cupidite, Demeter's Tears, Dark Matter Enriched Chalcophanite, Dark Matter Imbued Apollonite, Dark Matter Imbued Kronosite, Etherion, Firerock, Galactic Rimstone, Helvatha, Icy Pearl, Inderite, Neutronium, Krypton, Mica, Minosium, Osirium, Oxium, Pyrrhotite, Star Ash, Stojsavline, Vaneon, Voidgem, Wexeon, Wormstone, Xenon

Refine

Abaddon Ashes, Abyssian Dust, Acheronite, Alunite, Ambrosia Crude, Asmodesium, Astralite, Balderium, Celestial Ore, Chalcophanite, Charybdis Voidstone, Diamond, Duplium, Emerald, Emperion, Erebusite, Hadecite, Hafnium, Idunium, Khnumium, Kronosite, Leonite, Meteoric Diamond, Mirandium, Modredium, Morganium, Niobium, Noxion, Pagion, Persephonite, Platinum, Prometheum, Rutha, Scyllan Diamond, Star Ore, Stygian Blacksand, Tantalum, Tiberium, Tincal, Troseki, Vanirum, Yunieon

[Imasock]

What about this sort of idea:

Is it possible to load a device with ammo?

If so, why not make Ultra Refined gasses give temporary ship enhancements. 6 Refined gasses (translates to 10 uses per stack of 300) can be refined into an ultra concentrated gas that can be injected into a ship's reactor to provide energy recharge buffs, injected into engines for faster warp/thrust, injected into weapons to provide a slightly faster fire rate, or injected into shields for a faster recharge rate?

Each style of injection into a core system would require a different device, so there would be an engine injector, a shield injector, a reactor injector, and a reactor injector. Each injector would change in accordance with device norms, but starting at 4 for the Lv 4-5 device range. So, the device would run L1-4 gasses, then the L6 device would run L5-7 gasses, the L8 device would run L8-9 gasses.

-For example, let's think about the reactor recharge gas injections. Gasses from L1-4 would provide the exact same buffs, such as +3 to reactor recharge, but the level determines the length of the buff applied. L1 would be 60 seconds, L2 would be 120, L3 would be 180, and L4 would be 240 seconds.

-Gasses from L5-7 would provide a +5 reactor recharge buff, but the times wouldn't increase, so we're looking at L5's having 120 seconds, L6's having 180 seconds, and L7's having 240 seconds.

-Gasses from the 8-9 range would have +8 reactor recharge per second, and L8's would go for 240 seconds, and L9's for 300 seconds.

-Weapon speed injections could be 2% for L1-4, 3.5% for L5-7, and 5% for L8-9

-Shield regen could be 5/sec for L1-4, 20/sec for L5-7, and 100/sec for L8-9

-Engines could be 250w/25t for L1-4, 500w/50t for L5-6, and 750w/75t for L8-9

The idea here is to provide a small edge for the people who know what they're doing, but still "cost" a player something to use. A device slot is taken, but a stack of 10 buffs can be left inside the device as some sort of ammo and the buff can be activated at will for a buff. The higher gasses obviously give better benefits, but cost significantly more than the lower end gasses, and are much less abundant. This way, the higher end gasses are kept more as a commodity rather than refining to sell. Granted, there are better devices out there at those levels that provide much greater benefits, but I'm sure something could be worked out to allow for such a thing if it were to be implemented.

Obviously these numbers or device ideas could be tweaked, and most likely need to be tweaked, but it's just an idea I thought of. I'd have to sit down and really come up with some viable numbers and thoughts on how the system could be used but not abused, also taking into consideration inventory usage, etc. If this idea is possible, I can get on it right away.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Imasock

[MW2366]

What about this sort of idea:

Is it possible to load a device with ammo?

If so, why not make Ultra Refined gasses give temporary ship enhancements. 6 Refined gasses (translates to 10 uses per stack of 300) can be refined into an ultra concentrated gas that can be injected into a ship's reactor to provide energy recharge buffs, injected into engines for faster warp/thrust, injected into weapons to provide a slightly faster fire rate, or injected into shields for a faster recharge rate?

Each style of injection into a core system would require a different device, so there would be an engine injector, a shield injector, a reactor injector, and a reactor injector. Each injector would change in accordance with device norms, but starting at 4 for the Lv 4-5 device range. So, the device would run L1-4 gasses, then the L6 device would run L5-7 gasses, the L8 device would run L8-9 gasses.

-For example, let's think about the reactor recharge gas injections. Gasses from L1-4 would provide the exact same buffs, such as +3 to reactor recharge, but the level determines the length of the buff applied. L1 would be 60 seconds, L2 would be 120, L3 would be 180, and L4 would be 240 seconds.

-Gasses from L5-7 would provide a +5 reactor recharge buff, but the times wouldn't increase, so we're looking at L5's having 120 seconds, L6's having 180 seconds, and L7's having 240 seconds.

-Gasses from the 8-9 range would have +8 reactor recharge per second, and L8's would go for 240 seconds, and L9's for 300 seconds.

-Weapon speed injections could be 2% for L1-4, 3.5% for L5-7, and 5% for L8-9

-Shield regen could be 5/sec for L1-4, 20/sec for L5-7, and 100/sec for L8-9

-Engines could be 250w/25t for L1-4, 500w/50t for L5-6, and 750w/75t for L8-9

The idea here is to provide a small edge for the people who know what they're doing, but still "cost" a player something to use. A device slot is taken, but a stack of 10 buffs can be left inside the device as some sort of ammo and the buff can be activated at will for a buff. The higher gasses obviously give better benefits, but cost significantly more than the lower end gasses, and are much less abundant. This way, the higher end gasses are kept more as a commodity rather than refining to sell. Granted, there are better devices out there at those levels that provide much greater benefits, but I'm sure something could be worked out to allow for such a thing if it were to be implemented.

Obviously these numbers or device ideas could be tweaked, and most likely need to be tweaked, but it's just an idea I thought of. I'd have to sit down and really come up with some viable numbers and thoughts on how the system could be used but not abused, also taking into consideration inventory usage, etc. If this idea is possible, I can get on it right away.

Devices could, in fact, benefit more if you have modified devices from my 'phases' plus the injector system (honestly, I think it's more balanced), we could ALSO use the existing devices (excluding the 'phases' because we would be forced to create new items from the 'phases') we have right now without creating new devices to perform one function. Essentially, if you have the gas, then you get the injector buff, if you don't, then it'll either do nothing (remember, equipped buff devices), or only buff you with it's base effects (activates, instants). Also for the injector system, I would put in the use of ammo components, then raw gas/refined gas (also from the 'phase' idea, due to accessibility) and draw straight from the vault, rather then using up cargo space for devices. I also think these ammo component stacks should be lessened to 40-120 component stacks, rather then 240.

And now for another far out idea:

As optional weapon buffing items, that makes a whole heck of a lot more sense.And versions of it could be applied with roughly equal effect to each of the three weapon categories.

Beams could get gasses that improve their ability to focus the beam (range increase). Or gasses that amplify their intensity (dmg increase).

Projectiles could get condensed gasses that act as coolants, meaning less cooldown time between shots (reload decrease). Or condensed gas lubricants that reduce the energy required (less energy per shot).

Missiles could get compressed gasses that increase missile maneuverability (shot gets there faster, and has a small impact dmg bonus). Or liquified gasses that add explosive/chemical dmg to each missile, depending on the gas type.Using a buff item model like that also opens up the option to buff other equipment. Combustible gasses added to engines for temporary speed increases. Reactive gasses fed into reactors for increased regen, or even small instant energy gains. Same for shields. I don't think there should ever be gas buffs to reactor or shield capacity though, just regen and instant regen.

You'd have to balance the system somehow though, or you'd end up with people using 5 gas buffs at once and tearing the universe apart solo. I would suggest a max of 1 gas buff at a time. Using a second gas buff item cancels the first one. Even the instant regen ones, if you use an instant regen item, it cancels whatever gas buff you were using. Also, the instant regen items would have to be pretty costly, and not all that powerful, or they'd get out of hand easily. Finally, make it so you can only use gas buff items that are EQUAL tech level to your relevant equipment.

The other day I did a little bit of research into each ore level 6 and up and organized them into categories based on their applications, to determine which ore is typically only useful in its refined form, and which ore has no or few practical uses and should merely be sold to a vendor. Those in the "junk" category are those which are only used in a small number of vendor-available parts, those used for components which are not in the loot tables, and those which literally are not used in anything. The ore not in either of these lists should be kept raw. Of the gasses, six from level 6-9 are in the "junk" category and four are in the "refine" category.

Junk

Anthenicite, Barite, Boragon, Charon Crystal, Charon's Dust, Conorite, Cupidite, Demeter's Tears, Dark Matter Enriched Chalcophanite, Dark Matter Imbued Apollonite, Dark Matter Imbued Kronosite, Etherion, Firerock, Galactic Rimstone, Helvatha, Icy Pearl, Inderite, Neutronium, Krypton, Mica, Minosium, Osirium, Oxium, Pyrrhotite, Star Ash, Stojsavline, Vaneon, Voidgem, Wexeon, Wormstone, Xenon

Refine

Abaddon Ashes, Abyssian Dust, Acheronite, Alunite, Ambrosia Crude, Asmodesium, Astralite, Balderium, Celestial Ore, Chalcophanite, Charybdis Voidstone, Diamond, Duplium, Emerald, Emperion, Erebusite, Hadecite, Hafnium, Idunium, Khnumium, Kronosite, Leonite, Meteoric Diamond, Mirandium, Modredium, Morganium, Niobium, Noxion, Pagion, Persephonite, Platinum, Prometheum, Rutha, Scyllan Diamond, Star Ore, Stygian Blacksand, Tantalum, Tiberium, Tincal, Troseki, Vanirum, Yunieon

*This part is definately out there, Be Warned*

v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v

Excellent, and Awesome, we can use the refinable ore and the junk ore with the used gasses/asteroids/radioactives/crystals to make the effects. Once we have those ores, it's off to craft the components, and then to craft it as optional (NOT REQUIRED) one-time, only-one-use buffs to beams/missiles/projectiles and shields/reactors/devs/engines. Basically, this would be in the Consumables Department, but we can aptly use the junk/refineable ores Kassina/Zeppelin mentioned, and thus we have CRAFTABLE Consumables (heh, something no other MMO could pull off (Don't spawn a discussion over it)). Now, the other thing is to determine which ores are volatile, add damage, accuracy, thrust, etc., and keep the balance intact. I'm not gonna lie though, the list is gonna be huge to define all the buffs, debuffs, and instants, as well as the crafting tree to get all the effects, and we, of course, can't forget the massive coding project to make sure everything runs smoothly.

To return to the original topic of ammo-using beams, and improved upon ( and tell me if I'm going too far with a KoToR II setup here. ), we can use the many different Crystal Ores to focus the beams, and make them using Optical Components, Damage Type can be defined by Gas Ore crafted into Ammo Casing Components and Shielded Casing Components, etc. And thus, you will have a huge myriad of beam customization, but it should be limited by a safety precaution, otherwise there could be a risk of damaging the beam with too high of a level of a Component or Ore (say, by 1-4 levels, 1 being safest, 4 being the dangerous). Anyways, I have pretty much absolved of everything I had to say for today, but yes, I'm clearly a brainstormer here.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Foreststrike