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Naughtious

Server Cost

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I don't understand why the server costs 1500 a month - with a player base of around 100, that's a lot for people to pay if they want to support.

 

Could we please get a break down of the costs involved?

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I doubt the player base is only around 100. I often see more than that at any given time. Not everyone plays at the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if there were over 1000 active users. Even if there were only 100 that would still be about the same as any pay mmo.
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The server costs arnt 1500 a month. From what I've seen they open up the donations once every 2-3 months to ensure that the service is maintained.

That being said, as I understand it, they have 2 servers. One the play server, and then the Dev server. Additional costs are usually associated with new software tools.
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mumble mumble mumble!!! 

 

Sadly the devs get nothing for their time, if they did it would be 10 (more like 100) times the measly $1500/month they get for server rental/maintenance/server farm fees. There is also software licensing contracts, not to mention trying to maintain a bit of cushion for hamster feed and emergencies.  We the players who have donated to keep the game open and running for us and also for those who can't donate, have no issue with fund accounting.  This is one of those topics that should be locked.     

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People considering investing their time and donating money to an online game/community might want some transparency...

 

 

With a large portion of forum posts being posted by alt's and donations mostly being donated through alt's, all of which seem to post 6 times in 5 years - it is hardly surprising I have asked this question...

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There are a few older threads that also explain some of these topics.

As a newer member of the community I'm glad your asking questions and brining suggestions.

There are limitations, and many of them have been explored on the forums. Many a horse has walked away barely alive. Tragically a few needed to be taken away on carts.

Also I'd like to point out that while the forums exist, there are many players who don't participate. So we may have a community of 1000 players, only the voices that post here or in game are known.
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People considering investing their time and donating money to an online game/community might want some transparency...

 

 

With a large portion of forum posts being posted by alt's and donations mostly being donated through alt's, all of which seem to post 6 times in 5 years - it is hardly surprising I have asked this question...

NO

 

 

--------------Edit---------------

I know I am going to regret this but....

 

You are free to donate or not and still play the game.  Please don't put any restrictions on your possible future donations.  That just rubs me the wrong way.  The game is over 13 years old, many of the original developers of the game have come into the emulator and expressed their approval at what our devs have done with the game.  Many of us old timers have communicated with them from time to time as well.  

 

Enjoy the game.

 

 

Just saying,

Mim

Edited by Mimir
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Hi,

 

As indicated there are some software license renewal fees once a year, plus other costs for the company and the servers cost about 400 bucks a month. I only open the donation goal when the balance has less than one month of funds to pay for it. As it is almost tax time we had a few fees that we had to pay, thus the slightly higher donation goal this month than some of the others.

 

In essence the backup software we are using costs about 500 bucks a year, using the last two years as the mean average, the server fees as stated are about 400 bucks a month with the service we get for 3 dedicated servers from 1&1, and any other fees such as the purchase of software products we use to develop the game for you.

 

That being said, I think that's enough detail for what you're asking. Most costs are amortized across the expanse of a given year, and for what it's worth the same 3 servers from Rackspace would indeed be 1500 a month if not a bit more for the servers alone. Hope that helps.

 

(We are pricing new options and costs for a new provider, mainly the cloud based providers like Microsoft Azure or Amazon Web Services as a way of reducing the problems we've had reported for network latency and the like.) I am awaiting responses from them for our non-profit, I must price at least 3 providers with each service we opt to use and use the lowest bid, that's part of being a non-profit. If you don't like the costs, we can absolutely go back to not having a play server. :) (I would hate to do that, but it's the reality, it's either paid or it's not because I can't support it as I owe some 65 grand in student loans still and those are coming first.)

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Hi Kyp,

 

 

Interesting to see this part of how the server is run and maintained - and that there is an action plan for future improvement.

 

 

You guys are doing a great job - thank you all for keeping E&B alive, and kicking...

 

 

 

 

Naughtious

"The Pizza Guy" and genuine independent gamer

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Kyp,

Thank you for the response, and the time you put into the game. I like this game, though I haven't played in awhile. I point people to it, when ever I see a post inquiring about space MMOs.

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I'm surprised at the hostility in this thread from Mimir and even from Kyp.

 

Was " If you don't like the costs, we can absolutely go back to not having a play server. "

 

​Really necessary to add in at the end?

 

The guy never said he didn't want to donate. He said he wanted a breakdown of costs.

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*shrug* If you had any idea how many times we'd been threatened in the past with donations being pulled if someone didn't get their way, you'd probably understand that a bit better LordRayken.

 

I have no hostility for our player base, but the game can be further developed in private and later released and I would do that long before I would cave to someone's demands simply because they are a donator (and also because it's against the rules for how the company is set up.)

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I just wish i had a job so i could donate to the game ..  We the older players know how hard Kyp and his team works without pay . The time they take away from there real life to keep the game going .

 

My personal 2 cent's here , It seams a few times a year we get a " what are the cost's and why ?" . I am like a few old timer's here thinking here we go again ..........   fell free to ask but please read old post's too.

 

I think the folk who do donate are wonderful ... I thank you all . 

 

Us old timers and the " new " folk who come here enjoy the game as it is .  Yes there is the " work in progress " always going on . That work take Software that has fee's and must be paid . The Server we have now must be paid for . It may not be the best but like Kyp say'd he must take bids . this one is a little better that  the one we was on before.

 

I am not here to " flame " anyone .. Its just i am tired of seeing post's along these lines ,,, But they will still happen . and WE will answer the same .

 

Peace and Respect to all ...

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I'm surprised at the hostility in this thread from Mimir and even from Kyp.

 

Was " If you don't like the costs, we can absolutely go back to not having a play server. "

 

​Really necessary to add in at the end?

 

The guy never said he didn't want to donate. He said he wanted a breakdown of costs.

I'm not sure why you thought my request for some to NOT say they would only donate if some demand/request were met.  If you re-read my post you would see that I only said that they could donate or not... and still play and enjoy the game or not.

 

Nothing hostile in that,  but I can be persuaded to take a hostile stance.  The funny thing is that at the time of this players post it was like his/her third (now 56 total posts), I took exception with a very new player coming in and hinting that if and only if he/she got his/her way he/she would donate.  

 

 

Still waiting to see the donate tag change on this player, yours too, as long as we are on the topic.

 

 

Just dicens,

Mim

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I'm surprised at the hostility in this thread from Mimir and even from Kyp.

 

Was " If you don't like the costs, we can absolutely go back to not having a play server. "

 

​Really necessary to add in at the end?

 

The guy never said he didn't want to donate. He said he wanted a breakdown of costs.

 

 

I'm not sure why you thought my request for some to NOT say they would only donate if some demand/request were met.  If you re-read my post you would see that I only said that they could donate or not... and still play and enjoy the game or not.

 

Nothing hostile in that,  but I can be persuaded to take a hostile stance.  The funny thing is that at the time of this players post it was like his/her third (now 56 total posts), I took exception with a very new player coming in and hinting that if and only if he/she got his/her way he/she would donate.  

 

 

Still waiting to see the donate tag change on this player, yours too, as long as we are on the topic.

 

 

Just dicens,

Mim

 

 

Nope - I have not threatened, suggested or even hinted, anything of the sort.

 

If you go though Mimir's historical posts you will see some interesting trends though - in the way he quite skillfully shapes other peoples threads to promote his agendas, or is just  generally hostile. I would suggest to anyone who agrees with my point of view, or disagrees to use the thread-post voting system (Mimir so frequently uses, and comments on) to make their voice heard.

Edited by Naughtious
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Here's my thought. 

 

Many years ago I ran my own forum,  It was around for about 7 years. Server costs were the bulk of my costs. and I had many people do the same thing. Wanted a complete break down of the funds. Simply put,

 

Doesn't matter where the funds are going. Doesn't matter if they are going into the software, hardware or into their pockets.  It's a "Donation". 

When you donate something, you kinda give up on where the money is going..... Now the argument may be different if we were told that in order to play this game we had to make a payment every month. If that were the case, then we are paying for a service. 

 

No Need for transparency here. Only thing needed to say, "It helps to keep the server running".

 

But this is just my humble opinion.

Edited by BuzzStPoint
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Here's my thought. 

 

Many years ago I ran my own forum,  It was around for about 7 years. Server costs were the bulk of my costs. and I had many people do the same thing. Wanted a complete break down of the funds. Simply put,

 

Doesn't matter where the funds are going. Doesn't matter if they are going into the software, hardware or into their pockets.  It's a "Donation". 

When you donate something, you kinda give up on where the money is going..... Now the argument may be different if we were told that in order to play this game we had to make a payment every month. If that were the case, then we are paying for a service. 

 

No Need for transparency here. Only thing needed to say, "It helps to keep the server running".

 

But this is just my humble opinion.

 

 

Just to play the Devils advocate....

 

Off Topic but - Charities have to be transparent... And I am sure Kyp welcomed the chance to clarify that players donations are used correctly, which I would suggest motivates people to give because they then know the money they give has an impact.

 

I mean... for all I knew Kyp was hoarding the cash in the form of 1 tonne of chocolate chip cookies under his bed.....

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Well if it turns out kyp has that many cookies under his bed... "Share the wealth" !!I like cookies too! :)

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Just to play the Devils advocate....

 

Off Topic but - Charities have to be transparent... And I am sure Kyp welcomed the chance to clarify that players donations are used correctly, which I would suggest motivates people to give because they then know the money they give has an impact.

 

I mean... for all I knew Kyp was hoarding the cash in the form of 1 tonne of chocolate chip cookies under his bed.....

Yea Yea Yea I am one evil SOB, but you are wrong yet again...this is NOT a charity, it in no way feeds the homeless nor gives shelter to wayward girls.  The emulator takes donations to keep the game afloat.  You have options here... you can continue to play and not donate or you can go away (my preferred action on your part) or you can donate and shut the heck up spewing your obvious ignorance about how the emulator is financed (Even with a response to your veiled threat of tell us all or no one will donate ever again) <- note: yup an exaggeration. . 

 

 

P.S. Yes I dinged you again on each of your posts, I suspect you did and will do on my posts as well.  

 

I had a thought....why don't you go through ALL my old posts and ding away... Seems you wen't through them all anyway to get this psychological diagnosis of me. 

 

 

"If you go though Mimir's historical posts you will see some interesting trends though - in the way he quite skillfully shapes other peoples threads to promote his agendas, or is just  generally hostile. I would suggest to anyone who agrees with my point of view, or disagrees to use the thread-post voting system (Mimir so frequently uses, and comments on) to make their voice heard."

 
 
I'm not sure exactly what bug got up your arse to single me out but game on putz... 
 
Just saying...
Mim
 
p.p.s. This is directed at 
Naughtious
I have never suggested anyone leave the game before, for any reason. With you going out of your way to single me out, I will make that exception...
 
Go away!!!! Go far far FAR away.
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Off Topic but - Charities have to be transparent .

 

Humm,  From you are saying that when a bell ringer is at your local store they must show you there financial records before you drop some loose change in the bucket ?

 

When you give to the Red Cross they must send you a complete itemize  list to see where the funds are going too . 

 

Like Minir said . this is not a charity . net-7.org is a not-for -profit organization.  When the call comes out . those who can will . those who cant sends a big thank you to the folk who do .

 

Just be Happy and Enjoy what we have now .  Like i said before , ask any question you like but be ready for the reply's you may get back . you might like them or not .

 

peace to all , respect to all .

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Net-7 Entertainment, Inc. is a 501c4 tax-exempt non-profit organization. We are not required to reveal it, but I have in the past. That said, what's been said above about the server costs and the occasional software cost is exactly what the money is used for. Despite other beliefs, there is no requirement to reveal how its broken down to the donators (even though I have... albeit not every month) and when I said people threatening, I wasn't referring to [member=Naughtious], I was referring to many other people in the past that demanded silly things like advancement or a leg up for donations, and threaten to pull their donations because they don't get their way. Under the way we are set up, this would be a violation to grant and could have us shut down. The donations cover server costs and software costs for development. If they stop coming in, I would put it on Sourceforge and shut down sunrise and it would come down to the next team feeling like putting it together for a community.

 

If you wish to read about disclosure requirements, you can do this at the IRS web page, here: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eo_disclosure_faqs.pdf

 

It helps to understand the law, before you go quoting what it requires. :) Not all charitable organizations are required to reveal things unless they engage in certain activities, which we do not.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

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