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Bovyne

JS - skill ideas / improvements?

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The Seeker should Loose the Build Reactor Skill and get build Shields.
And the Tscout should loose the build engines skill and get Build Reactors.
The PP should loose build shields and get build Engines.
This way all the races can have all the build skills.

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No way, we should keep at least one item that each race cannot build. If the Terran Scout could build reactors, between the TT and Scout there's be no reason for any of the other traders to exist at the build terminal. Remember that Terrans aren't subject to racial restrictions, so the only manufacturable items in the game that cannot be built by Terrans are reactors. Jenquai cannot build Progen items, and Progen cannot build Jenquai items, so keeping one build away from the Terrans gives both the PT and JT a build advantage over the Terrans, Build Reactor. The TT gets the advantage over the other 2 traders, in that they have Negotiate 7 (JT/PT have L5 Negotiate) and the TT has a larger list of potential build items.

Now I would love to see, at some point in the future, some item recipes that are restricted to one trader being able to obtain them. Would probably come in the form of missions that are long, complicated, and reward prints upon completion, with requirements to be of a particular race & profession to get the mission. This would further differientiate the Traders.

Now if Reactor Opt became the JT's L135 skill (a L1 skill) and just had the effect that the skill has when maxed, then the JT would have a free slot for another skill to use in combat support. (Kenu's idea originally)

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I am still a fan of this class getting something more in the way of a heal. You could give them crowd control, but there are already many classes that have menace, grav link, fold space, summon, ect. You could give them a debuff, but honestly, the Scout needs a debuff more, as it seems to be an explorers job to provide the buffs/debuffs(if we are going by a standard model anyway). You could add another buff, and while something like a group wide weapons buff as others suggested would be great, I think that should be low priority at the moment, and I do not think it would really make them increadibly usefull.

Face it, when setting up a group, a person sets up for balance, and a Seeker has to be able to fill the healer or back up healer role. With no hull patch, they really need to be good at keeping shields up, otherwise, you will bring a TS because of the shield cap increase and hull patch, or you would bring a privateer for more DPS and longer range than the JS.

So, my suggestion is (and has been) to give the JS a quick emergency ward to deal with spike damage. This "Psionic ward" would be a fast cast (0 to 2 seconds) small cap psi shield that was short duration (less than 15 seconds), with the main goal of stabilizing incoming damage, allowing for the longer 4 second heal to be used. The ward would not remove the JD's psi shield, and could be single target at low level and affect nearby group/raid members or friendlies at max level. The skill could either be lower hit points with a longer duration(near the 15 second mark) with no recast time, or it could be a massive hit point ward many times what a JD's psi shield is, however, it would be a shorter duration(maybe 5 seconds) with a recast time of a minute or more. This would make the skill either be a constant help in dealing with normal damage, or if the Devs chose to make it higher cap with less cast time and duration, it could be an emergency skill for dealing with spike damage.

A psionic ward skill would give the JS the psi shield everyone expected them to have, without creating major balance issues, and giving them a better reason to be on a raid rather than DPS. Without hull patch and a way to increase shield cap, they will not take the place of the TT, and without DPS they will not be chosen over a PP. Instead, when a raid leader is building a group, if given reason to, he or she would set a group up with a TS and either a JS or PP, depending on if more defense or offense is needed...if mobs hit hard, a TT would be grouped with them. I think the raid setup could change alot once mobs skills and damage output are fully functional, especially if enrage skill is functional...because then we would see the need for a "Main Tank" group, and more than one healer would be required in the group, so why not build the JS and PP to fill that role that will eventually be created?

To keep things fair, I would not increase the JS dps by that much, and if you do, perhaps it could be something as simple as a small groupwide dps buff that will keep the seeker from being overpowered with the inclusion of a ward to their skill lists. Also, I know there is talk of missles for the JS...i suppose that would help a bit, but even something as simple as a couple pieces of gear that would improve projectile damage and range that a seeker could use would be of great help. If slow kills while leveling are a concern, you could always try allowing an increase in weapon slots at lower hull upgrades to make for faster progression while not increasing the total weapon slots allowed(4 should be plenty, that is the same as the TT). Perhaps making a device that increases projectile range and damage from the seeker level 35 hull upgrade mission, that alone would give the JS a viable ranged weapon.

I just do not see a Jenquai tradesman posessing critical targeting or massive offensive powers. Maybe I am too stuck in lore...I just see them more as using technology in an often passive way to ensure their survival, and a ward lines up with this more than some form of damage skill. A little more DPS is fine, especially if it is group wide, but it should be kept within reason because the warrior tradesman, the Privateer, should be the end all in DPS.

A Psionic Ward would allow for better survivability when soloing, a reason for inclusion into groups and raids, and would give them just enough of an edge to make them worth playing, while not making them overpowered(if done properly...no instant cast, 50 second, 10 million hit point wards please). The ward could also be as simple as improved shield recharge in combat by a very large percentage to allow for a massive heal over time for a short duration. Either way, balancing classes is tricky, but in keeping with the themes of each race, it only seems right for the JS to have great survival skills but not be very great at dealing damage...a new type of ward or heal over time seems to be a good fit.

EDIT: Sorry for the wall of text and poor spelling Edited by Reon

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See my [url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/6533-dispel/page__hl__dispel__fromsearch__1"]Dispel[/url] thread for an idea of a JT heal that's unique. I do think that there should be a little debuffing in the JT, as the Trader from the explorer race. I do agree she should do a bit more healing or warding than debuffing, but she should probably get 1 line of debuffers that are new, useful, & exclusive (she does have 2 other PM debuffers for being Jenquai, and one for being a Trader). The Scout should also get 2 unique PM debuffers that do something useful.

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dispel or a cure is a great plan, but here is my thought on it...cures are great, but wasn't the JS class supposed to have PSI shield from the start? I would imagine with Jenquai lore that they would be a bit more about the ability to use their mental powers to create a barrier rather than remove hostile effects.

I am in total agreement that a cure makes way more sense than a DPS or debuff ability, and honestly I would love to see it on them, but I still think that a ward makes more sense...Privateers are more offensively geared, so seeing the privateer loose menace and gain a offensive and defensive skill like the one you described makes perfect sense to me.

What would seem to be a nice balance in the end would be something like this:

Terran Tradesman: Shield Recharge, Hull Patch, Shield Charge

Jenquai Seeker: Shield Reharge and Psionic Ward

Progen Privateer: Shield Recharge and Dispel

After all skills are working in game, especially Enrage, in a group or raid situation, you would have a choice of an all around meat and potatos healer like the TT, a more DPS oriented healer like the PP, or a more defensive healer like the JS. In a raid situation, you would simply add a Scout to the group for the hull patch ability and run with a TT.

This mix of healer skills would allow the JS and the PP to be usefull in groups and raids, while not making the TT or any other class worthless. I think it is great that the TT be the standard healer, but the other trade classes should be able to heal high level encounters without back up...at least in certain situations they should be able to at least do a decent job. Should the JS and PP become viable healers, then suddenly the Scout has a use for its hull patch and will be a welcome addition to groups...especially if the Devs gave the Scout a mob debuff(something like -30 to all resists to an enemy).

While the Dispel skill is useful and I agree it should find its way in game, the cure group and remove benificial buffs from enemy mobs sounds more combat oriented and would seem to be a better fit than menace for the Privateer. A Psionic HOT or Ward seems to be a better match for the Seeker, or at least the game creators must have thought so looking at the class description.

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The Devs had Psi Shield on the JT before, I really don't see how putting it back helps the JT's problem of being redundant and not having anything special. The Psi Shield that the JW uses isn't that strong, when it's working the way it's supposed to, it'll likely drop after 1 hit from a raid mob, 2 if you're lucky. Odds are the Scout will probably be at best secondary hull patcher. Hull Patch is supposed to draw aggro when used, and the Scout is much more vulnerable than the TT since they don't get L9 shields and has neither a hide skill (Cloak) nor a soothe skill (Befriend).

Odds are the JT when she's in a raid isn't going to be casting Recharge Shields much either, because of the resultant aggro. She does have the ablity to disappear after casting but I think she'll have to do something else in support besides recharge shields, but I don't think Psi Shield is the answer, even if it's modified. If anything I think that any skill that the JT gets will need to be new, unique, & useful. It will also have to work with the GETCo "animal skin" devices that the explorer classes all bring to raise deflects, plus the JE's enviornmental shield which from L3 onwards increases all deflects except Psionic by 10.

In addition any JT skill needs to be usable on all players regardless of group membership (as are the TT's support skills). Unless the devs have the means to raise the number of people in a group beyond 6 there aren't enough slots for each class. Raids should likely require multiple groups, and likely require multiple configurations of groups in order to be challenging as well as use all 9 toons. This means that the JT will likely be using whatever support ablities she has to help people not only in her group, but in other groups as well.

I really don't see dispel as a PT thing, I think it fits the JT just fine. It would be removing debuffs from you (A new & unique heal not seen before). Whether or not you were hit by a debuff is determined by the skill vs your Psionic deflect. The main idea is to bring new things that can be used. The idea for this particular effect was inspired by a JE Only device that clears Menace, the Rallying Cry. The pass/fail check would likely also be a Psionic check.

I don't think that the JT really needs to have much more DPS, I find mine can fight solo pretty effectively with the right tactics & patience. Whether or not JT uses MLs (as Kenu mentioned as a possible future change) I don't really think that it makes much a difference, unless there's going to be more support for secondary weapons. Most JT's are going to raise their beam weapon skill, and whether it's PLs or MLs as their secondary weapon, it's going to be overdings that fill the skill, rather than before 150 skill points put into those skills.

Debuffing isn't limited to explorers, though the Jenquai as the exploration race gets arguably the most useful lines of PM debuffers. L3-L9 debuffs on Plasma, as well as the ability to blind opponents. The TT actually has a line of PM Psionic debuffers. It's strange, though, that there's a L9 version of this device since it's TT Only, and the TT doesn't get L9 devices.

When it comes to the Scout & Seeker new ideas, IMO, is the way to go, not rebuilds of old skills. The PT is still short a skill as well, but that's a topic for another thread.

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[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1335678837' post='57169']
The Seeker should Loose the Build Reactor Skill and get build Shields.
And the Tscout should loose the build engines skill and get Build Reactors.
The PP should loose build shields and get build Engines.
This way all the races can have all the build skills.
[/quote]

sorry Phor, not signing that one.

simply, it dont fit lore,
1.the terrans are the engine masters, fits the "masters of the trade lanes" thing to a T to have/build and use top notch engines. Reactors? subcontract those out..I'm busy here!

2.the jenquai are the scan, stealth and reactor techies..part of the "mental disipline" thing for that stealth etc. they give up on shield..so why would they specialize in something they dont use? Engines? those terrans are so freakn noisy! silent but deadly is the way for jenquai.

3.the progen are the hull/shield masters "strength through superior firepower", they need reactors to fuel those power hungry guns, and shields to stand toe to toe in the armegeddon of damage thrown their way. Engines...bah! you only need engines to run away..only cowards run...enemies that run away? thats what gravity link is for :)

The whole intent is that every race has its niche and is dependant on the others to excel, they can limp along without other races, but never excel. You can see this intent both in gearage buffs like progens using primarily projectile and impact, but with few exceptions their gear buffs dont have it, they need terrans to buff for them, so also jenquai, they can debuff plasma true, but were there any ORIGINAL plasma beams designed by jenquai manufacturers..nope GetCo not sundari. But terrans use a lot of plasma missles,,,,real nice to have a jenny about to debuff for you.....beam buffers, very few beam enhancements on jenny gear, but hey they were built into a lot of progen devices..what a coinsidence!

So also the story line, the races diverged in the expansion and exploration phase, and would have happily went their seperate and unique ways, but they were always being thrust back towards each other, the fishbowl, the ODC, the V'rix were all notable storyline markers. To hang it all on storyline is just to thin, you need each race to have a flaw and a strength that the others overcome and depend on for it all to stay together. Nobody should be a all in one, so........
No to TS reactor.
No to JS shields.
No to PP engines.
  • Upvote 1

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On the subject of a psionic ward for the JS, the skill I am proposing is not a redundant copy of the JD skill...I am talking about a short term ward that will prevent damage for a few seconds, without stripping/replacing a standard psionic shield. The skill would provide a very usefull means of preventing spike damage, and in most MMO's, wards do not generate the same aggro that a full on heal does. The skill could provide more hit points than a standard JD psionic shield, but would only last a few seconds and would not over ride the JD psi shield(to keep things balanced and fair).

That skill combined with the reactor optimisation would keep the class from being redundant, and very usefull on raids. If enrage is fixed eventually, aggro will be a small concern, and the JS has cloak and a low signature, and healers and tanks worth their salt will be able to cope with the lower shields(especially when they would be a secondary healer in the MT group or a solo healer in a non target group). If the enrage skill is working properly, a main tank group would most likely consist of one TT, one JS, one TS, at least 1 JE and tank. If the PP had a nice buff and debuff skill such as the Dispel that was mentioned, it would be perfect for the off tank group, or in support of a TT in the main tank group. If the TS had a nice debuff skill, combined with its entry level hull patch and afterburn it would be wanted in the MT and possibly OT groups. Suddenly it would be worth having the least played classes in for a group or raid.

The Seeker is a tradesman and a healer...just as the TT and PP. I am not saying tradesman can't debuff, I just would expect Dispel to be found on a DPS healer like a PP, not on a more defensive vessel. The enrage skill never worked like a proper "taunt", it never controlled aggro, so I would say fix that rather than try to find a healer a different role because trying to heal would pull too much aggro. A "cure" that you describe like dispel would fit fine on the seeker, but a heal seems to fit lore quite a bit better. The Jenquai seem to be more about enlightenment and preserving life rather than taking it, and while a cure can fit that role, I would expect to see them with a version of a skill the original devs had in mind for the class. Frankly, the JS does not have DPS, so it will not be picked over a PP, and without shield charge and hull patch it can not heal as well as a TT. So to be viable in a group, especially if it is the lone healer, it will need to compensate for its level 8 shields...and while curing a debuff would help, it won't keep you alive too long against hard encounters...a short term ward would allow for that...and while it would not replace TT's, it could at least be a good option for a solo healer in a group, because right now she is the last pick of healers for groups, and I don't think a cure will fix that issue.

Now, onto the support for multiple groups and playability concerns. The psionic ward and shield recharge should work out of group, so no concern with raiding. As far as grouping, you can add 4 guns worth of DPS and heal. Combine that with the seekers reactor buff and that seems balanced. For soloability, if the PP was to get a debuff instead of menace or something, it will still balance out...the PP will kill things quickly, but can run out of power doing so. The JS will now have an instant spike damage ward, as well as reactor optimisation to keep on using that and shield recharge. The kills will take a bit longer due to a missing gun and debuff, but because of better healing,stealth, and cloaking...survival will be ten times better on the JS. The TT will still be balanced as well, because the DPS will be on par, and she still has shield charging, hull patch, and plenty of speed.

In summary, I am suggesting a large, low aggro, short term ward that at max level could hit your group or any nearby friendlys for a few seconds. Not the same old skill the JD has. It is close, and I would assume something like what the westwood devs may have wanted the seeker to have(it doesn't make sense for two classes that would often group together to have the same non stacking psi shield). I do not think switching build skills will make or break the 3 new classes...I think making them balanced and useful in groups/raids will determine if they are worth playing. Edited by Reon

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I see two problems with your line of argument against Dispel being on the JT on the basis of her being a defensive trader, rather than an offensive one. (I think she should provide some support in both directions just not entirely sure she should favor defensive)

Problem one is categorizing the JT is a primarily defensive trader. This is inconsistent with the PM debuffs she already has on the basis of her race & profession. Weaken Energy (Manticore), Weaken Plasma (Chimaera) are both avialable to the JT, though they're not exclusive. The JT gets the Chimaera for being a Jenquai, and the Manticore for being a Trader. Both of those effectively increase the firepower of anyone shooting at the enemy with those types of damage, after the debuffer hits. They're clearly offensive debuffs. Plasma also happens to be popular as a damage type, and comes in Beams, Projectiles, & Missiles. Another debuff the JT brings (as do all Jenquai) is the Coma device. That one is probably dual-use. One can blind the enemy to make him more vulnerable to attack (in that he can't see as well to shoot anyone), or to make an escape (for the same reason). Since JT also comes from the race that's strong with reactors, and she has reactor optimization, she has more energy to provide buffs/debuffs or any other support involving reactor power than the other support toons, with the possible exception of the JE.

The JE despite being a class that's has no critical targeting, the weakest shields, weakest hull, & the fewest weapon mounts, also have both offensive & defensive things they can do in support of a group. Shield Leech, can give the group power and do damage to enemies. JE can directly transfer energy from his reactor to yours, allowing you to keep those guns firing, as well as those skills in use whether said skills are offensive, defensive, or dual use. I'd argue that both the JE and JT can do offensive support they just do so in an indirect manner, compared to hurling hot lead or missiles at the enemy. The JT's problem right now on either front, offensive or defensive, is that most of the things she can do, can be done someone else who can also bring other things that add up to more than Reactor Optimization.

The JE also brings defensive support in the GETCo "animal skin" devices that all explores have access to, as well as the small deflect buff on Environment Shield that stacks with other deflect buffs. +5 to everything except Psionic at L1, +10 at L3 plus, minor feedback damage to non-energy attacks at L5+, small amounts of reactor power at L6+.

The other problem with your defensive vs offensive argument on Dispel, is that Dispel isn't an offensive effect. It is a heal for players who have been debuffed by the enemy. Being debuffed, sometimes lowers your offensive potential, sometimes lowers your defensive potential, and sometimes both, depending on the debuff you were hit with. Debuffs to speed, deflects, maneuverablity are deflects that hurt your ablity to avoid/sustain damage, debuffs to your reactor hurt in both offensive & defensive ablity depending on what you're trying to do, while debuffs to your weapons, hurt your offensive potential. Hacks, would depend on what's taken offline.

I'm just not buying that the JT shouldn't have dispel since support toons can bring offensive support, without bringing much firepower. The JE clearly has offensive & defensive support despite being the weakest char in direct combat, I don't see why the JT shouldn't have some unique offensive support ablities as well as some defensive ones. I just think that we'll need more to go around, and that new effects will be needed for the JT as well as the Scout & PT.

This likely means that the mobs will need to become tougher too.

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*shrug*

Jenquai are more defensive from what I see. They were never designed to be offensive...progens were. Jenquai have weak shields and were not meant to pack DPS. Jenquai want peace, and the pursuit of knowlege, not to engage in the art of war. They just do not believe on offense...at least the material I have read over the years says that. Both the debuff devices she gets are not exclusive to her class. Nothing I have seen in regards to the original plans for the JS were ever indicating she was planned to be a debuffer or an offensive healer...nor does it match the back story/lore of the game.

I figured with the dispel line that you were wanting the ability to cure benifical buffs from enemy mobs on higher level versions of the skill, if that is not the case, then it is purely defensive.

I think new effects are needed as well, I just think that the skill you describe would be a nice fit on a privateer, and that powerful ward would be very nice on the JS to help compensate for the lack of DPS. If you couldn't kill stuff quickly, and couldn't take much damage, would you rather be able to cure a speed debuff from yourself, or have a massive damage shield for a few seconds??? It just makes more sense. If the skill is powerfull enough, combined with the support abilities the JS already has, that will be enough to make her useful in groups and raids. A cure is much better than nothing, but do you really think that will be enough to help her survive in a raid if she is the only healer...no hull patch...no extra heals...just a cure...yeah...a cure is a great idea for a class that has the hitpoints to stay alive long enough to use it...I just don't think the seeker is that class.

I am all for the JS getting some love, but I would love to see her get a similar skill the what the devs had in mind to start with. A cure is better than nothing, but it seems like it would be better spent on a PP. I also would like to see some new dev engineered skills new classes...they need to be unique to be needed. The skill I am refering to the JS aquiring is similar to Psionic shield, but still different and will take some dev love to make it work...but in the end would set the JS apart and make her a good healer, and allow her to cope with spike damage and keep herself alive when she is the only healer in group, I do not think a cure will provide that for her. I would love to see a nice debuff make its way to the skill list of the scout, and a cure replace one of the skills on the PP...so I am definately for new dev engineered skills.

Finally, PLEASE READ THIS: I do not want the seeker to have psionic shield. I am talking about a psionic ward. A massive short duration damage shield that stacks with everything. not a redundant skill like you keep saying. I do not want a copy of a JD skill...I am talking about a new skill.

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Turtle as a possible Progen 135 skill might do that (PW or PT). I was thinking originally as Dispel being a line of devices, though I could also see it as a 135 skill. As a device effect, it's probably better than a skill, because it leaves more room for improvement of the class. Give it the same range as a Coma of equal level, and JTs will be able to use it and live to tell about it. What she'll do if she's smart is place herself where the mob that's attacking is further from her than the player she's healing (essentially the player being healed is between her and the mob). The L9 Coma has a range of 5.0K. Dispel in my proposal would not attract the level of aggro that Recharge Shields or Hull Patch would, it would be closer to the original design of Reactor Opt which isn't supposed to draw aggro. (assuming it hasn't changed)

Using an idea that Kenu had, Reactor Optimization could become the JT's L135 skill, and she'd still have that unique support effect, she'd just get it later. (Dispel would then be a device effect) A different skill could be put in place for her to replace the L7 version of Reactor Opt. IMO it should be a useful, new, and versatile skill that is a legit raid skill in combat support, while offering her some benefit in solo play though I'd doubt it would be hull patch.

Offensive support is more than flinging out large amounts of DPS. Debuffing enemies, as well as providing warriors with additional power, does increase their offensive potential. I also think that the Scout's Afterburn skill will be of some help there with some defensive support (the chance for opponents to miss), but would be better if formation requirements were waived, or if it were raised to L7 at least waived on the last 2 levels. IMO the JT (and the Scout) should bring things to the table that are new, unique, and by far more valuable than their 4 weapon slots. (3 if the Scout ends up being changed back to original specs for devices/weapons)

Currently none of the new classes have much exclusive equipment. The JT has 2 items in the game that are exclusively hers, L8 Glorious Kimono (Formerly Sharim Prototype Shield) & L2 Sharim Shields (a reward for a training mission). I noticed that the L2 Bandy's Booster is no longer listed in the database (not sure if JT still gets that for one of her training missions.) The Terran Scout has 4 items in the database that are exclusives, L9 Ballistic Sniper, L8 Hyperian Frontier's Friend, L3 Industrial Mining Laser, and L8 Scout's Revenge. The PT has 1 exclusive item in database right now, the L2 Amplector Omega Shield.

The devs haven't really said what their exclusive equipment will look like, since they haven't finalized the skill set of the new classes. This makes sense to me as they'd need to design secondary/tertiary buffs on things like devices. The PT will definitely have at least one skill added, as they have one fewer skill than anyone whose not a JE or PE and no unique skills. It's almost certain that the Seeker & Scout will get some new activatables. Devices are important to both classes I hope to see them get some new exclusive effects.

Not sure what other effects that can be given by devices (or other equipment like Reactors for the JT or engines for the Scout) that the devs haven't shown their hands on that front.

For MASH tactics the best combo for the hospital would remain JW & TT, but I think that the Scout & Seeker in such a scenario should rove between the front lines & the hospital helping both when possible. (They'd probably be in a separate "support" group).

She would back up the JE's mob blinding and plasma debuffing as needed, use whatever new effects she has as best needed, and wander back to the hospital from time to time, buff the TT's reactor, and any warriors who are being repaired as well as dispel their debuffs in both locations. I think her skills and effects should make this feasable as a strategy.

Another thing I would like to see, if it's possible, is a skill efficency buff that she can use on friends. I could see 3 possiblities on that front, but she'd only get one of them. I'm not sure which would be best, faster casting of skills, less energy used per skill cast, or harder to interrupt. Those could be consistent with Jenquai mental discipline.

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-shrug- generally in most MMO's if something can't kill quickly, they are given buffs and debuffs or heals to make up for it. sure, cures do help in fights, but will it be enough to make the JS survive long enough to do its job....healing. I think the trader classes have established the role as healers, and if they can't keep themselves alive, they can't do their job. A cure is great, I just see that it will change the support role from a possible main group healer to being a back up healer that is still quite squishy. Rather than being to take as many on a raid as you want, you will only take one or two for curing, because you will need TT's or PP's with level 9 shields and bigger hulls to survive long enough to do the real healing.

After ENB went under, I played multiple MMO's(Eq2, Lineage 2, EVE, STO, ect) and raided heavily, and found that much of the raid content was broking and classes were horribly unbalanced for raiding...the long scripts found in EQ2 made it to where each of the 26+ classes were required on many raids, and required a guild to have multiples of each on hand, even though there were only 24 raid slots. I found that the game drew the most players when the devs found balance between the classes and skills and created a place for each class. When they made one class over or underpowered they would loose players and raiding would suck. This game is so much more simple, but I would love to see some of the skills fixed(like enrage) and actually make a place for each class in a raid, and find balance both in groups/raids as well as soloing. If this game had nasty debuffs throughout the levels, the cure would be a big deal, but the debuffs normally will not affect if you live or die...a extra massive ward will.

I am not saying the JS should never get another support ability, just saying they need to be better at staying alive, then focus on the fluff. I would love to see her with a massive ward and a type of efficiency buff like you mentioned. I just would like her to be able to do what her class was designed to do...heal...and be able to stay alive and heal well enough to be an option as a main healer...even if not the first pick, to at least be able to be a healer when a TT is not available...I just see them as too squishy to be anything more than back up at this point.

who knows, either way, anything they get will be better than the way she is now (probably)...so I guess we can agree to disagree on what the class is and should be. I see healers as a type of support class, but as a seperate entity from other types of support(crowd control, buffers, debuffers, power transfers,ect). To me, healers should be good at healing first, and good at a secondary skill after they are good at healing. I think it is great when healers provide an extra bit of utility to bring to a group, I just think you should not have to bring a extra healer to help keep them alive. So, I want to see Psionic Ward first, and Dispel or buffs/other utility second. My own opinion anyway :)


NOTE: I really do not want to see reactor optimisation go away...can't we take one of the skills they added that doesn't fit well away? Why not make a extra ward be the 1-5 effect(1st one being self, 2nd being other target, 3rd being a group ward), make dispel or one of the buffs you were mentioning the lvl 135 skill, and make reactor op the 1-7 skill?

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In order for her to be a main healer, she'd need to have both Recharge Shields & Hull Patch. I don't think that's going to happen for either the JT or PT as that would stomp on the TT's toes. It's also part of why I made my Dispel proposal. If that were to happen keeping her alive wouldn't be much more difficult than keeping the TT alive when MASH tactics are used.

MASH tactics keep the TT away from the fight with a JW by his side, the TT plays doctor, the JW medevac/nurse. When a Warrior is losing hull, the JW summons him, repairs his equipment, buffs his reactor, and puts a Psi Shield on him, in the meantime the TT recharges his shields, Patches his hull, and gives him Shield Charging.

The JW is also responsible for relocating the hospital if the enemies get too close, he warps to somewhere safe then summons the TT.

Now if a ward would make the warrior or supporter's hull hold just long enough for his group's JW to summon him to the hospital, that might be useful, whehter the ward is in the form of a skill or an activatable device, so I'm not entirely against the idea given in your current argument. I think it's possible to have both. It may be necessary that one be an equipment effect.

Since the JT is a hybrid between trader & explorer she should have some overlap in both (which she does). The big thing is which advantages does she get over the JE & TT that make her useful enough to bring along, while preserving the need for JE and TT. It's a very tough question. At the Build Terminal, she's already there it's combat support where she's lacking.

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well, we both clearly agree on the seeker needing an extra skill set, and not one currently present in the game. I do not want to see a JE, TT, or any other class replaced, rather find a niche for each class. You see, when I discuss balance, I am not talking about things the way they are with tanks having a hard time keeping solid aggro, requiring warp in and out or mash tactics, I am wondering what it would be like if there was a main tank group that was set up with more than one healer...two different types of healers. I agree that without hull patch the JS would be lacking, but if she had a ward to go with her recharge and the group had a TS along for the ride, the two classes could do the job of a TT. While a TT takes only one spot, the TS/JS combo would allow for a different type of buffs/debuffs and healing. I am not suggesting replacement, simply different ways to make all of the classes function well, and keep balanced. This will allow for raids to be tailored to each guilds roster and the needs of the perticular raid mob.

I am sure the Dev's do not plan to make any class useless, and there are plenty of good ideas floating around the forums, I expect we will see some new skill sets on the 3 classes soon enough, and hopefully the JS will be better at healing and providing a unique support ability when all is said and done.

Oh, and Devs...if you decide to be gracious enough to provide the JS with some sort of cure/buff along with psionic ward, and find yourselves needing to get rid of a skill...please junk foldspace. It is quite redundant...and I personally never find a use for it...maybe other seekers do, but...yeah...between cloak and shield recharge, I have not found a reason to use it.

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We're in agreement there, I think that some of it could be done via the 135 skill, whether it's something new, or if the max version of Reactor Opt became the 135 skill, while the JT got something new (credit to Kenu). If more is necessary beyond that, it's always possible to trade Build Engines for something new. The problem there, albeit minor, is that all engine building would be done by Terrans. (Can't really get away with taking any of the other builds on the JT.), New activatable devices will probably be a key to helping the Seeker find her place in the universe, same for the Scout.

The biggest problem, in these discussions, is we don't know the limits on what the devs are able to do in terms of device/skill effects. We also don't know how many unused skills they have remaining. They have used 2 of them (Null Factor was Progen Lore as an example). One for Reactor Opt, the other for Null-Factor. The PT is still owed a skill. We'd also have to consider that the original 6 classes each got a new L7 skill after live started, plus the JE and PE getting L135 skills. Do those count against the number of total unused skills that are used? How much is limited by the client, both in terms of what the devs can do technically, and what they can do without EA taking actions against the emulator?

Afterburn, was one of the skills already intended for the Scout from WW, so one could call it an unused skill, or not. Not sure how to count that one.

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