Ryle

As per Dakynos' final post in the 13 page PvP thread, that someone could make a topic to summarize the 13 pages of discussion into one mass document of ideas, I will attempt to compile everything mentioned here. https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/6408-if-pvp-were-added-how-to-make-it-fun-for-all/ There were five major systems talked about. 1. Sector Based PvP in which anyone entering the sector (or sectors) would be flagged attackable by other players in the sector(s). Addressable issues to this would be: - Number of sectors involved (from one all the way up to a whole PvP "system" with various locations and bases maybe even based on factional/race alliance and so forth. Perhaps something akin to Moto with the Terran vs. Progen thing only with all three races and another neutral sector for everyone to just mash up in) - Level requirements for entry (100+, 135+, free for all?) - Warnings to players gating into the system that they have X minutes to gate back out or risk being attacked (preventative measure for accidental entry/griefing) - Safe zones within the sector (respawn/tow locations as well as a place to group up or go afk safely for a moment) - Explorer/trader based content with items out of roids and possibly random mobs dropping gear specifically for PvP only combat (nothing that would give advantage/disadvantage outside of the PvP sector) - Whether there would be missions based around PvP with token awards or other incentives to participate (job runs in the sector for double xp with the risk of getting killed and losing the bonus and the like) - No quality loss or XP debt on player death by another player. 2. Arena Based PvP like in live where participants would line up to a queue and be gated at the appropriate time to a mini sector with two respawn/safe locations and the two teams (or single players) would just duke it out in a deathmatch. - In live there were arenas for different level ranges, based on HU level iirc. - Moderate XP rewards possibly to the winners, and half that to the losers. - 30 minute replay timer to prevent exploiting the XP reward. - No quality loss or XP debt on player death by another player. - The capture the flag ball game "The object of the game was soccer: get orbs of varying value to the goal(s)/safe zone. The different maps had different goal zones and orb spawn points. If you killed someone carrying a orb, they dropped it and you could tractor it and drive it to the goal. The highest value orbs were mined from outlying areas of the map, so you needed a miner to mine it and most cases a guard(s) to protect them while they did and drove it in." 3. Guildwar Based PvP in which players would join PvP only guilds on their PvP toons (or have an option in guild controls to flag certain rank? of players overt and attackable. Then whoever was in another guild with their flag up, open world anywhere PvP. - Five minute cycle time to "flag down/up" off overt status so the /pvpon /pvpoff couldnt be exploited to avoid dying fairly. - Certain sectors would be deemed safe zones (newbie areas and all common commerce sectors like Glenn, Carp, Saturn, and a few others) to prevent lag or interference. - Explorer/trader based content with items out of roids and possibly random mobs dropping gear specifically for PvP only combat (nothing that would give advantage/disadvantage outside of PvP) - Possible PvP only manufacturable gear that has no benefit when used on mobs or NPCs. - No quality loss or XP debt on player death by another player. 4. Open world PvP. Much like the above guild war except the player controls when they flag overt, without having to join a specific guild to do so. Only players that flag overt would be attackable, and could only attack while overt. - Five minute cycle time to "flag down/up" off overt status so the /pvpon /pvpoff couldnt be exploited to avoid dying fairly. - Certain sectors would be deemed safe zones (newbie areas and all common commerce sectors like Glenn, Carp, Saturn, and a few others) to prevent lag or interference. - Explorer/trader based content with items out of roids and possibly random mobs dropping gear specifically for PvP only combat (nothing that would give advantage/disadvantage outside of the PvP sector) - Possible PvP only manufacturable gear that has no benefit when used on mobs or NPCs. - No quality loss or XP debt on player death by another player. 5. Job based PvP, like a bounty system. - The hunter goes to the terminal, gets a "Hunt Job" where a PvP Delivery/Base defense is actively headed or occurring. (for exploitation sake and camping spots, these should be completely random locations around the galaxy) - The hunted gets a PvP Delivery/Defense from a jobs terminal that gives double XP for completing the job safely. (available from any job terminal regardless of level to prevent camping the pickup location) - At any location along the route if the hunted is attacked by the hunter, PvP ensues until one of them is dead. - Base defenses would last 10 minutes minimum. - If the hunted is successful in arriving at the dropoff location for a delivery without being caught, they enter a 30-60 second period of "uploading the data" where they must be decloaked/stopped. If they are attacked by the hunter, all movement and cloaking ability returns and combat will then ensue to the death. This provides at least one opportunity for a quick hunter to get a chance to attack outside of incidental gating contact. In all forms of PvP profession skills and balance will have to be looked at. Some professions (PW and JD) will be excellent solo combatants, whereas JE and TS would be better at group based PvP in a support role. Under no circumstances would PvP balancing affect PvE balance, in other words a skill may work totally different on a player than it does on a mob, for the sake of fairness, etc. Skill interruption and countering would have to be looked at (see cloak, anti-menace, armor piercing rounds vs PW and TE, shield charging debuffs, and the like), the possibilities here are endless. For all we know the weak little JE could be a ruthless debuffing monster in PvP. The PW might be a kiters dream, and so on. Ive condensed the other thread as best I could, if I missed anything let me know and I will add it as soon as possible. =D Lets get this discussion going again.

Eh, got booted docking to QAR, everywhere else i went was fine. Same as above, no-go logging back in.

Login server may be down, cannot log alt in.

Realistically this applies to way more than raid gear (so many items in the game had no use because skills are broken, theres a better option, or theres no reason for it since the buff it gives is included on another item youd be equipping anyway), but this is a place to start. One major thing to look at with drops that are unique/non-manu is that they shouldnt be so ridiculously outclassed by generic PM gear of the same level. Why use one of the unique PLs at say level 5 from some of those CL25 bosses when youd just be getting less DPS/nothing useful out of the deal by equipping it over a rifle. Haralds Berserk (level 6 PL unique) is a great example of this. Ok you get a +25 chem deflect, which would be covered by an Ivory Ward or many other devices/shields around the same tech level. Or to some extent by combat trance if youre a PW. The weapon does 21.25 DPS and requires a unique ammo for it that means more hold space for its ammo. PM mortars or rifles do about 40DPS and in the case of the rifle also have crit and accuracy buffs, and with multiple damage types. Berserk ammo IIRC only comes in chem. Unique/Boss drop items should always perform at the same level if not outclass a PM made item. I mean you can only equip one, so its not like youre killing the PM market at all, but theres absolutely no incentive to have the item at this point. (give a 100 percent Heralds Berserk 39.5 DPS, 10% projectile energy conservation, 25 Chem deflect, and maybe 10 percent turbo and see how sought after it becomes)

So something I have always had a gripe with ever since fishbowl was introduced in live, and GoBB here in the emu is the following: The sheer amount of obsolete raid gear with this small of a game population is a detractor to active raid participation. I see items from FB that were considered epic uber in live, sitting spaced floating and never get picked up because no one needs a fury of the tengu or a heart of the dark one. As we move forward with adding raid content and tweaking, I propose the buffs/DPS/stats of these raid gear items be looked at so there is less of a min/max on what comes out. Being realistic here since there are so few of us, a couple months is all it will take to oufit most people with raidcapped gear even if we were to wipe it out and start over. Maybe give the Fury of the Tengu/Heart of the Dark One unique buffs that dont appear on the Fury of the Master/Heart of the Master already. Dont overpower so it swings the other way, but do it in a way that makes it equivalent. Say the FOTM having the DPS advantage and keep its turbo/speed/shieldcap buffs, but give the FOTT a unique buff like the reaver's projectile energy conservation/enhanced damage buffs. (get the reaver and then replace it when you participate in the raid with the FOTT), etc. There should be ways to mix and match instead of the one I-Win setup everyone uses currently (FOTM/Spitter/FlechO/BB/Biles with an intolerance). Or DG/GoD/Streak/DPs. Or SmitersWrath/Caster/Biles or whatever have you for whatever race. More choice is always good, and a lot of other raid level gear (RD base comes to mind) needs tweaking as well. Make everything that drops from the raids have purpose and that "i gotta have that" charm again, because really its becoming a one and done sorta mentality in raids. You only gotta do it once and youve got all the best gear for that toon, usually.

One of the drawbacks to a Monty Haul campaign is that once people have their shinies they stop coming, I suppose. I dont support a level/recipe wipe, but perhaps an item/gear wipe is in order, since everyone has it all already, and in many cases at much higher percents than they should have (125 being the max youd ever see on live, and very very rarely at that. even my best percent item on live was a 120 fott, lol @ 160+ percent non manu raid gear) The whole daily spawn thing killed it too. Its simply not necessary with a 100 server population.

I dont know of a printable map but, you could always go to http://enbmaps.de/ and screenshot the homepage I guess?

It was the ascended voltoi raid in dahin near hau. The one that dropped the aspiration reactor, the intent engine, and the imbued synthesized crystal comp for both. 1 Cl66 Enraged Ascended Voltoi (10 mil HP), and like 5 or 6 Cl58 Voltoi Scions (1.5 mil HP each) They did enough damage to basically kill Mimir's PW in 5 seconds, but once the scions are dead the AV is kinda a marshmallow for a group with 1 TT in it. No raid level loot dropped for the test, just some manes essence, but it was badass looking to see the AV for the first time in 10 years (at least for me)

I guess im just curious why people are still exploiting the broken mechanic and soloing or very small grouping major raid content. Just because you can, doesnt mean you should. I know I did a few solo runs on things, for testing the mechanics scope. (i didnt even benefit from it past a little xp, i actually gave away the drops out of the mordies i did). But persisting to use it is pretty unethical in the interest of game fairness, at least my 2 cents on that part. Not naming names, but the soloing fishbowl bit that delayed BMs fishbowl kinda annoyed some people. We were patient and waited for over 2 hours. We eventually assisted him, to speed it up (since even with three toons he was only at the dark one like 90 minutes in) but I mean when youve got a raid group ready to go, and content is being soloed, yeah something there aint right. Least the dude was cool about it, even gave us a device for one. I aint got any real beef with him, thats a one time dealio. But the point being made is these solo runs just to do it, are starting to gate content from people, so why dont you knock it off? Would be nice to see in market or general: "Hey GoBB is up, lets get a group and smash it" instead of just getting the KenShao and soloing it. Last I checked this is a MMO, not a single player game. You saw how many people came to the AV test today, there is no lack of willing participants in raids.

lol too much firepower

Is this gonna be new permanent content I wonder? =D

Im scared

I watched them do it on my JE (was checkin the hulks nearby), funny enough i was sitting right next to you and we didnt even know it. Left around the time the JS got killed but it was obviously going to be done, I watched it get down to about 2/3 and left to do something more productive.

I dont know why you couldnt like... just leave and take care of your biz, and then ... keep your stuff just in case someday you could come back. I never understood the concept of deleting everything.

[quote name='Crichton' timestamp='1341340262' post='60067'] Ooohhhh!!!! Hopefully this doesn't violate the EMU Devs non-disclosure of damn cool stuff to a player-base that hates everything. [/quote] That map is so old tho, I remember seeing it back in the day, like before we even had a server to play on. I went looking for it (its actually a PITA to find it with a working server hosting it). I ended up tracking it down to the deviantart of the guy that made it. I mean obviously some of the stuff ended up in the EMU, like Paramis and some of the newbie sector names, but enough is different (the PP an TS sectors are particularly of note here) that I doubt this is some secret master plan they are still going by. Was just something cool to remind the community of, at one time this was how people were thinking.

Actually a pretty common bug for everyone. I heard /resetstarbase might help, but i just log out and in and it goes.

That last paragraph was how I think the majority of the players in live viewed the JD profession.. as a support warrior, buffs + DPS. The summon skill was essential for the MASH style of raiding, as it was to pull mobs to be killing by the DPS group one at a time, as well as for convenience sake to move people around sectors, etc. JD is well suited to any of three roles really, it always has been: DPS, Crowd Control with Summon/Fold, and Buffer/Debuffer. It is probably for that main reason you always saw JD around raids, since their particular set of skills was specifically tailored (not sure if intended) to be a Raid staple profession. May not be the best tanks, may have no self heals, may have short range, but all their other benefits more than made up for it. Flat out in live no raid group I ran in fishbowl or RD base went without at least one JD in it. Ever. When the call was made to do a bowl, the first thing we checked were sufficient TTs and then JDs. Everything else was secondary to that, even jumpstarters.

82k was what the PW hull was in live, but with HDC working appropriately a PW could take about 3 times the damage to their hull than they could their shield. A full HDC pw and possibly an equipped HDC buff with an ivory ward had close to 500k HPs effectively. It got worst with rally and enviro shield. Depending on how buffed the PW was, it was almost impossible for anything short of a raid boss with absolute damage attacks (Arenzael did absolute damage back then) to even really hurt a PWs hull. Fully buffed and including deflects a PW hull was like 500k and their shield about 250k (even tho it said 82000/120000) 82000 at 200 percent HDC would be 246000 hull (100 percent doubles the effective size, so 200 triples it) ... and deflects of 50 from an ivory ward and combat trance made that 500k Equip a piece of gear with HDC on equip, get a rally buff and enviro shield buff for 100 deflects and a PW could in theory look something like: 82000 @ 350HDC = 369,000 at 100 deflects for half? damage... almost 800k hull without including shields. I remember it working that way in live too. get 10 fish on you and your shields gone in about 30 seconds, and then tank all of the fish for another 5 minutes and barely get scratched paint. I can tell HDC isnt working right here at all.

Id be a little curious as to why someone would quit a game over that. Honestly, do you expect to be able to go 'HEY BLACKLUNG, HE CALLED ME A POOPYFACE, BAN HIM' like a 5 year old tattletale? Cmon man, handle your business. Tell em to STFU or /ignore. Even my own kids know how to do that.

o.o

I like how aquitaine and antares have like 8 sectors in them on that map XD

Came across this today, I remember seeing it before. Probably posted it in the wrong forum too but eh. [img]http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/168/6/1/earth_and_beyond_map_by_suricatafx-d3j5y4q.jpg[/img]

Wouldnt her model be in the client somewhere? I mean in the login screen that model.

winning

[quote name='Algaron' timestamp='1341210490' post='59993'] Theoretically it is possible to get the range you attribute to the Jenquai with a Proto Beam (3.5k) and a Devastating Gaze (boost beam range 134%). Also included 15% Vindis Beam Focus Shield at 15% boost beam activated. If there is a better boost beam range on any weapon or device I don't see it. So.. 3500 (proto range) + 4690(3500+134%) = 8.190k + 525(3500+15% Vindis Beam Focus Shield) = 8.715. The very most a Jen can get. However no one runs this setup and especially not in a raid situation. Protos have no buffs and not great DPS so it would be unrealistic to say that any Jenquai would use these beams in a raid or even soloing. Most commonly beams used by Jenquai Warrior are below and using this set up (including a DG's boost beam buff of 134%) we have, Glare of Devastation (2100) + (2814) = 4.914K Devastating Gaze (2000) + (2680) = 4.680K Black Streak (2000) + (2680) = 4.680K Ghost's Edge (1900) + (2546) = 4.446K Defender's Pride (1900) + (2546) = 4.446K In order to fire all of the beams and not just the GoD beam a JD would need to be within 4.45K of the mob. This is realistically a Jenquai's max beam range. As well in Live, beams did 50% damage at their maximum range. Currently it does not matter how close or how far away a Jenquai is from the mob as all damage is subject to random damage. [/quote] Jen's initial strike needs to be within 3.5km at max level as well, to hit the chim, which has a 3.5 range. After that yea, about 4-4.5.