Kyp [LDEV] Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 You see no reason for my suggestion. I didn't see a suggestion. I saw a complaint about large guilds. But you do seem open to suggestions to change this somehow... One thing for sure is large guilds should not be penalized for being full of people with no individual identity. But small guilds need something to counter this. Perhaps the ability to form an 'alliance', a group of guilds, could be implemented. This way the smaller sized guilds do not neccesarily need to lose out when it comes to raids. Question is how different is an alliance to a large guild? I know from another mmorpg (GW) that there is definitely a difference between guilds (ppl a lot closer to you) and an alliance (people not too close but do have a common goal). An alliance would be like a dialogue window where you can see the guilds that form the alliance, their stats maybe etc. But also an alliance chat option would be useful. Er, we're not going to make it impossible for large guilds to exist, that's kind of like telling businesses they can't buy stocks or something. We can't help that you had bad experiences with other people in the past. Perhaps if you review the way you behave in public, this problem wouldn't exist? You mad? You'd have to work a lot harder than that to succeed in such a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kemperor1 Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 @Tyran I do understand a little of where you're coming from, but at the same time, many of those perceptions are simply illusions. I think you're giving too much credit/emphasis to the idea of large guilds. There's no real difference between folks in a guild versus folks that aren't OTHER a tag and a private chat channel in game. There are no other benefits gained from being in a guild right now, no guild vaults, etc. However, having the private chat channel is incredibly empowering. It makes communications very easy, and there is some automatic inclusion into activities by mere fact of being in the same guild, but that's down to personalities, not something about guilds that's good or bad. Some folks simply prefer the relatively less chatty guild channel than newplayers/ooc/market/general chat, and you can't blame them for personal preference. Really though, anyone can create their own private channel and invite folks to it. Or folks can simply use general/market, etc as long as the chat nazis don't complain. Being in a guild doesn't currently auto-assign loot rights or anything like that, so again there's nothing here that prevents folks from different guilds/solo players from participating in group hunting/raiding. Give you an example. On Orion there were MANY publicly organized raids. Some of the most well respected raid leaders were from the big guilds, sure. They had the experience and organizational skills, but they never barred anyone from joining the raid, regardless of guild tag. It was simply that PERSON that was a good raid leader, not his/her guild. They gained respect as an individual by participating in market channel and helping others. Guilds aren't inherently good/bad. There's no reason for any kind of extra development to create a pseudo-guild. !!! That's what I think and what I said earlier. It's the individuals that are awesome or shady, mean, whatever you want to.call them, not the guild itself. It doesn't matter if an asshole is in a small guild big guild or no guild he's still an asshole. If a certain guild, regardless of size, is comprised of a bunch of assholes, it's the leader's job to fix that or go with it at their discretion. Furthermore until loot rights are working properly, if I'm in no guild and out DPS every individual 1v1 in a big guild's group I get the kill anyway. Of course this is flawed and probably wont remain this way long but unless it's already fixed, right now there is no owning a spawn with superior numbers like in live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Himmelweiss Posted January 26, 2011 Report Share Posted January 26, 2011 Before guilds where implemented chat was full of (LFG cl so n so), ( mining group LFM)......the server was working as one and everybody had a good time. Now its more like @#$%#( guild name) ksing our boss that we camped and its ours, we own it....@#$%@ Welcome to an true MMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyran Posted January 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 @Tyran I do understand a little of where you're coming from, but at the same time, many of those perceptions are simply illusions. I think you're giving too much credit/emphasis to the idea of large guilds. There's no real difference between folks in a guild versus folks that aren't OTHER a tag and a private chat channel in game. There are no other benefits gained from being in a guild right now, no guild vaults, etc. Agreed but keywords there are ''right now'', because newb guilds with a thousand members (most were inactive) was not unheard of during live and they were little or no threat because they died out before a member even learned what epic loot was. The type of guilds I'm talking about was when EnB was around a year old and perhaps 95% of players had at least one level 150 character. At this point a lot of guilds were becoming less active because players were leaving by the bucketloads. But more importantly high level characters required epic loot because theres not much else to do with a level 150 toon. So because raids required a lot of people players merged guilds untill eventually a few very large ones existed. Even some people on your 'ignore list' became your guildies at this point... Being in a guild doesn't currently auto-assign loot rights or anything like that, so again there's nothing here that prevents folks from different guilds/solo players from participating in group hunting/raiding. At the moment there is maybe no issue with this. But when the emu is for real and guilds spend weeks doing the same raid over and over, don't think that no loot order will be formed. That is not exactly 'outsider friendly'. Give you an example. On Orion there were MANY publicly organized raids. Some of the most well respected raid leaders were from the big guilds, sure. They had the experience and organizational skills, but they never barred anyone from joining the raid, regardless of guild tag. It was simply that PERSON that was a good raid leader, not his/her guild. They gained respect as an individual by participating in market channel and helping others. How experiences differ Public raids were iffy at best on my server. Because randoms joined, of which most were scrubs, they would do things like have 'accidental disconnections' after they looted during a mordana raid. The next time you bump into them they had no recollection of the raid at all Er, we're not going to make it impossible for large guilds to exist, that's kind of like telling businesses they can't buy stocks or something. Ofcourse large guilds should exist, there needs to be a place for people without a soul. If you read properly you would understand that large guilds are not the issue. Rather, if I don't join a large guild (of the type that a significant portion of the server was/is a member of) I would deny myself epic loot. Your analogy about banning large businesses from buying stocks is rather poorly... A better one would be not allowing large companies to monopolize the market, thus making competition disproportionately difficult or even impossible. We can't help that you had bad experiences with other people in the past. Perhaps if you review the way you behave in public, this problem wouldn't exist? Do I taste a hint of patronizing attitude? You'd have to work a lot harder than that to succeed in such a goal. ^You sure? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyran Posted January 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 ^Why do two seperate posts merge automatically creating messed up quotations due to a quote limit...??? And why has the 'edit post' option been removed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyp [LDEV] Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Ofcourse large guilds should exist, there needs to be a place for people without a soul. If you read properly you would understand that large guilds are not the issue. Rather, if I don't join a large guild (of the type that a significant portion of the server was/is a member of) I would deny myself epic loot. Your analogy about banning large businesses from buying stocks is rather poorly... A better one would be not allowing large companies to monopolize the market, thus making competition disproportionately difficult or even impossible. So, being part of a large guild parts one from their soul? Wow. I was unaware of this spiritual dynamic. Maybe we should do something after all. I assume you mean, "rather poor" but if not, rather poorly what? I have already said we're not going to create rules to dissuade guilds, its up to players to manage the community except in the case of egregrious violations of rules posted. We can't stand over the playground and ban someone every time someone else accuses them of a KS, since in fact with the rules working the way they do KS is a myth, as the mob is not claimed. You know, there's nothing that stops you from grouping or working with others not in your guild, except for your attitude, I would wager. I oftentimes participated in raids with superguilds in live and got plenty of good loot, and in cases where I had to I counter camped them. I fought with Static on Andromeda over many spawns. Oftentimes I lost because they'd call in more people and my little guild didn't have that many but hey that's the name of the game. Do I taste a hint of patronizing attitude? Patronizing? Nah, that's just twisted perception screwing with you, Sarcastic? Definitely and always. ^You sure? More sure of anything that I've ever been in my years on this rock. (That is to say, pretty damned sure.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Del[IS] Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Nag, whine, hiss, moan. Bottom line, the emulator isn't going to put arbitrary limits on guilds. If big guilds suck, people will leave them, revolutions will be had, coup de tats will take place, etc. Guilds are comprised of players and they work as a function of the interactions of their members; thusly, I see no reason the size of a guild should involve the development teams in any way. (barring practical limits necessary for server stability) Threads like this are bad for people's blood pressure. *Locks thread like it's hot* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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