ryleyra

The origin of my characters' names (and the online handles they originate from) is a fairly long and convoluted story. Fortunately, I plan to give the abbreviated version here.   I'm a D&D player from way back, (around 1980) and my main character was a fighter named Brandon Dragoncove. I came up with a backstory for his family name with something about a city being besieged from the sea, and a dragon rose out of the water and wrecked the ships, but it was really just that I like dragons. When I created my main for E&B I thought about him as a descendent of the original Brandon, and like his ancestor he was a bit of a rogue and a con artist. Something like Cyrano Jones or Harry Mudd, but with a conscience. I felt he fit the concept of the trader perfectly. It wasn't a question that he would be my main, because I'd been using the name "Dragoncove" online for years.   My second main was based on a spaceship that I created for a game I wrote for the Commodore 64, at around the same time. This ship just happened to have a swept back wing style similar to the later Jenquai Defender, and a cloaking device that made it invisible to sensors. I had named the ship Midnight (after its jet black color) and since it was pretty much my ship come to life I had to create it in game. I had also been using the name "Alan Midnight" as a programmer, Alan is my middle name and Midnight from being up until 12 am writing programs. :) So the pilot of the ship "Midnight" became "A'llyn".   That left two more characters I wanted to create, a Terran Enforcer, and Jenquai Explorer. Back in my D&D days I had created a female character I named Sandra, and I like wolves, so the two got strung together to form "Sandrawolfe". Finally, I felt that the Explorer's ship, with its solar panel "blades" looked kind of like a knife or sword, and so I came up with the name "Blayyde", using a Y and doubling the letters as with "A'llyn". The ship I named "Silverstrike", both for its color, as I wanted it to be bright and shiny, unlike the stealthy Midnight, and for mining.   Interestingly, the name "Blayyde" has stuck, and I use it all the time in MMOs now, even in preference to "Dragoncove". And yes, I am a character hound. ("Altitis", you may have heard it called, but I was afflicted even back when I played D&D) In City of Heroes, I had over 50 characters, although I regularly played only about 20-30 of them.

My main, the TT Dragoncove, was on the Orion server, along with my JW. My JE and TW were on another server, I forget which. I was with the game from the very start, and stayed with it until they shut down the servers underneath me, I was mining on my JE at the time. In fact, what drew me to the game in the first place was the design of the JW's ship. When I was a kid, I wrote a game on my Commodore 64 that had a ship with that very same swept-wing design, and I had drawn various versions of the ship over the years. So I was excited to see my creation appear in a real online game, even if it was just coincidence that someone else designed it that way.

I've always felt that it would be a good idea to give Seekers missiles because 1) Jenquai DON'T really have any reason to use anything but Beams, so it doesn't really matter, and 2) the Seeker is the only class for which this option is available. Only Jenquai start with their Racial weapon, thus Terrans must have Beams and Missiles, and Progen get all three weapons by default. It would also be nice for the JT and JE to have different combat styles.   However, as things stand the Seeker uses projectiles and I see no reason to change existing implementation. I do note that existing Jenquai MLs tend to have some sort of resistive buff, and a special launcher as Terrell suggested would be interesting. Maybe the JT could be issued a unique PL that in essence fires micro missiles. Give it an extended range and buffs similar to the ML classes.   I'll add that the point of range is to stay out of sight of your opponent, (kiting) and to a Jenquai, being out of sight of his opponent is his racial skill. And thanks to Fold Space, all weapons are long range. So Jenquai MLs are not as much for range as for the energy efficiency and secondary effects. IIRC, missiles take up less space in cargo than projectiles as well. (or maybe you just don't go through them as fast)

The forum idea has two big things wrong with it: 1) It assumes all players make use of the forums. In fact, the number of players in an MMO that are active in the game forums are usually much less than the number that are online. 2) Even if you make use of the forums, you still have to meet in game to make the exchange. The only advantage to making a forum post over posting in the Market Channel is that your post is preserved over time. So you can make contact with another player that is not online at the same time you are, but you still have to arrange to meet. It would probably be technically feasable to create an auction interface using a web site, however, it would be almost impossible to make it secure. Even though the actual possibilities using the existing game engine are limited, it would probably be better in the long run to try and make use of them. The limited way in which these solutions could work would probably encourage the continued use of the Market Channel as well. Without more knowledge of the code, I'd probably say the dev suggestion of a "middleman" vendor that takes items that it lists for sale for you is the most likely to work. The idea of the vendors keeping track of supply is speculation, and might be supported by the game engine, but it might not be easy to display all the relevant information though the interface. (That is, a vendor might have a limited supply, but you might not be able to see how much it has) Keep in mind, though, that some solutions can be supported by the server, and not the client. The devs are able to create missions and powers that never existed in live, and prices and supply are all different. As long as the interface exists to communicate between the client and server, the server can do with that information what it will.

[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1318281076' post='47193'] I'd rather just see an ore vendor that only can sell ores that have been sold to him. Prices vary by level & rarity of ores, adjusted for faction & negotiate skill. If it can be put in F7's lobby, or if it cannot be on a station, a ship parked outside F7. [/quote] That would work fine, as long as the vendor keeps a record of the actual ores bought and sold. The vendor that just bought ore at a markup and then sold an unlimited supply didn't help much because it wasn't really selling the MINED ores to the builders. Whether the miners participated or not, there was always the same supply. If the players can set their own prices, then the vendor can just list everything it has at each price, or just sell the ore in order of purchase price. (If there's a bunch of ore up for 100 credits and you put in some at 90 they'll be sold right away, but if you put them in at 110 you have to wait until all the 100 credit supply get sold) Otherwise, you can have a set price and simply have the supply in the vendor control the market. If the vendor sells out, you have to go to the Market Channel for more. I suspect a more auction-like interface, where you go to a roving NPC and put a stack up for a given price, will be more likely to be implemented. But even that could be limited to ore only, or ore and components. One thing to note is that on live as well as current, the usual traffic on the Market channel is for components that can't be easily bought from a vendor. That's a market that an Auction House could CREATE, simply by adding an option that isn't the vendor. I'll also point out my idea again for a scaling price system where the vendor buys and sells the ore for more the lower the supply gets. The players would be in more control of the price than with a static system. (Although not as much as a true auction)

[quote name='lordfalcon' timestamp='1317349385' post='46861'] Would anything been address to stop the killing of the PW [/quote] This is the problem. A constructive, rational argument explaining why a particular change goes too far in weakening a particular class is expected and helpful. But repeatedly and consistently claiming that there is an intentional and concerted effort on the part of the devs to "destroy" a class that you and those who support you are attempting to "save" from from their efforts is neither helpful nor, in most cases, truthful. It is in fact true that there are always those who oppose a "nerf" because they wish to continue to use the exploit that was fixed, and this casts doubt on the motivations of all such arguments. When you [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem]attack the motivations of the devs[/url], this does not help your argument. If anything, it makes it more likely that people will question your own motivations. A true rational argument should not have to [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_emotion]resort to such a thing[/url], as long as it holds to reason and facts. This is an Alpha test. It is not a complete game. It is EXPECTED that systems are not going to work as intended. There are systems that are not even in place yet, like interrupt, which will SIGNIFICANTLY effect the balance of the classes. If those of you here are used to working in released games, which are completed and robust, then you should understand that you should have no expectation of that here. The devs will try to ensure that all classes have equivalent abilities, but this will take time and cannot be accomplished overnight, or even before the game is finally ready to be released, which could be years for now. It may NEVER happen.

[quote name='Mattsacre' timestamp='1317163012' post='46767'] Live and learn Dakynos..or maybe in this case die and learn it's as it shouod be..[/quote] I agree, when testing out what I can and can't take I don't care whether my "experimentation" kills me. That's the point; to test out what I can take. Once you've learned the limits, you'll avoid what you know is too dangerous. Unless you LIKE blowing up. Sometimes the ability to self-JS can make me a bit giddy...

[quote name='Sleepwalker' timestamp='1317137800' post='46747'] I'm opposed to the AH concept in this game. We're all fairly isolated from each other as it is most of the time, and the only time we ever get pixel to pixel contact is builds and sales. I think it's different in a ground-based MMO where you are constantly in visual contact with other people; but even in them the AH tends to lower social interaction. Just my two cents, though [/quote] Well, unless you're talking about building components and sales of ore, that's not really going to change, not if this system ends up implemented and used like I think it will. And IMHO very few people are meeting for that anyway. If you want someone to BUILD something for you, as in you have the components, or a system that you want to rebuild or upgrade, you will HAVE to meet someone in person. You could buy something and put your old system up for sale, but there's no guarantee you'll get as good a deal. If we attempted to implement a full Auction House I might agree with you, but it's unlikely such a thing could be retrofitted into the game at this point. We are still stuck dealing with the defined UI and trade interfaces, which we cannot change. To be honest, that you would still likely meet for trade AT ALL would still distinguish this game from any other MMO. Which MMO even has other players meet for trade? Certainly not EVE, and not any ground based MMO I can think of either. Usually, player interaction is connected to either teaming or PvP.

Well, maybe you aren't talking about normalizing across the three different races, but that's exactly what you say in your original post. If you intend to normalize the Crossbow against the Executioner's Hand, for instance, that's what you should have SAID. Only, I'm fairly certain that outside of fire rate, those two ARE normalized. (The Hand, I think, is faster. And often, a faster fire rate WILL do slightly more DPS because it compensates for the lower fire rate doing more burst damage) The weakest equipment available usually DOES come with an advantage, which is that it provides a buff of some sort, or more commonly, a bonus to a particular class or racial skill. For instance, a Terran projectile could offer a bonus to the Hacking skill (I'm not sure what the Eerie or any other PL actually does without access to the game, this is just an example) as that is a skill exclusive to Terrans. Most Terrans might not choose to use that projectile weapon for that bonus, but MOST TERRANS WOULD NOT CHOOSE TO USE PROJECTILES ANYWAY, since their racial weapon is missiles. But this doesn't mean that no one would choose to use their race's equipment if there is a compatibility that might make that option more valuable. For instance, Jenquai shields usually offer deflects. Jenquai Seekers have the ability to recharge their own shields. So as long as they have enough reactor energy to keep recharging their shields when they get low, the deflects will reduce the amount of damage of a certain type. Defenders also can choose to rely on their Psi Shields, never expecting any damage to get through to their (weaker) shields, and thus take advantage of the deflects. Personally, I don't choose to use Jenquai shields with my Defender, but that's because against weaker foes I prefer not to use my Psi Shield, saving the reactor energy for beams. As for "everyone" using plasma, well, apparently that "everyone" doesn't include me. I actually use lasers on my Defender, with plasma as a backup weapon or for an Explorer. That's mainly for bio mobs anyway, which are very often resistant to energy. Energy works just fine against most enemies. And resistances aren't that great in the low levels anyway. Another area where I can disagree that only one system is the "best" is missiles. I use a whole spread of missile types across all of my characters. My Scout uses the Class C because she prefers the Warp cost reduction, and likes hitting hard for her limited missile slots. My Trader uses X4's, though, because they have a much faster fire rate, and thus (on live) had a higher chance of interrupt. Even here the constant DPS ensures my foe won't regenerate, even if I'm running low on reactor. My Progen all use Dragonclaws because they can't use Terran Only weapons. They could use X4's, but the ammo is cheaper. (one less component) Finally, in many cases there is just the fact that some weapons are simply available because a lot of new players don't want to make a long trip out of their start area. It wouldn't make sense for Progen guns or Jenquai lasers to be available at Earth Station.

[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1316809983' post='46524'] I remember them dropping the occasional L2 Manes Essence, regardless of the level of the Manes. Them being looted in the traditional means. Now that may have been different for the Sentinel, since the devices that allow refinement of Manes essence are PE only. [/quote] Hm. I wonder if it was REFINING that I was remembering, not mining. Oh, but I remember killing Manes as a Sentinel. Also the Progen Genemaps. That was really the purpose of the Sentinel, at least in story terms.

You know, speaking of Manes, does anybody else remember that back in live you didn't loot Manes, you mined the gas cloud they left behind? I'm pretty sure I wasn't imagining things...

The problem is that you are decreasing a factor, time, which is a demoninator in the function damage over time. As you decrease the time value linearly, it does NOT increase the damage over time function linearly. In fact, each additional point of decrease has MORE effect than the last, reaching its maximum around 100%, where the value goes to infinity. So adding 5% recharge reduction to 50% recharge reduction has a MUCH greater effect than adding 5% to 10%. By contrast, increasing the damage portion of the damage over time function does increase the function linearly. Adding 5% to the damage dealt will have the same effect whether you stack it with 10% or 50%. And there is no infinite point at 100%, you can continue to increase damage past 100%, to 200%, 300%, or even more. In layman's terms, what this means is that decreasing recharge time by 5%, which is what equipment quality on projectile and missile weapons did, has a much greater effect than increasing damage by 5%, which is what equipment quality on beam weapons did. Yes, beams could make use of turbo, but that's avoiding the issue, which is that recharge decrease is more valuable than damage increase under the old formula. I remember when that was in the game, and I remember thinking that it was a glaringly amateurish oversight. You don't really want to decrease recharge, you want to INCREASE fire rate. So you want to, say, increase fire rate by 50%. You increase fire rate by 50% by decreasing recharge by 1/150%, or 66.7%. That gives you the same effect to overall damage as increasing damage per shot by 50%, which is a smooth, linear increase, not an exponential one. The 57% turbo cap may no longer be necessary to prevent this, but it could be there because of graphic limitations. (The client can't handle a beam or projectile firing every tenth of a second. Not that you really could get reload rate down that far)

Honestly, I'm not sure why this should do this. I've created characters in the Creator and even moved them around and never had it crash the game, even when I had different characters in the slot than the one I created. However, I happen to know where the character configuration files are stored, and you might try going to that directory and deleting them. (Or saving them off to another location) While I can't remember it exactly, I believe it's something like C:/Program Data/Westwood Studios/Earth and Beyond Character Creator. Program Data is a hidden folder, so you will have to show hidden folders in your Windows Explorer to see it. The files are all called ".dat", and numbered for the slot they go in. Amusingly, I never figured this out on live, so I was never able to save my character designs. Now I have them all backed up. If this works, you might try renumbering your design so it is in an empty slot.

[quote name='Tienbau' timestamp='1316640118' post='46456'] the mobs spawned will be roughly the same combat level as the player who is mining. This is probably not right, but it does mean that any mobs poppped should be able to be dealt with by any miner. [/quote] Well, if that's the only way it can be implemented, or is a temporarily solution just to get it into the game, that's fine. But if the idea is to provide a greater risk to someone mining above their level, assigning it based on the field would be preferable to me. (Wouldn't fit what I remember if there's no other way to do it, but maybe you're triggering the code that was written the way it was on live? Or the "original" code that was changed?) I honestly don't think players summoning pop MOBs to grief lowbies is THAT big a deal, IIRC you can do that with combat missions, and it's fairly common in MMOs where you have ambushes or the like. Usually, someone who is of high enough level to deal with the MOB can be called in quickly enough. And a griefer who practices that repeatedly can be dealt with accordingly. A despawn timer would probably remove even that issue. The exploding rocks, however, as I understand, deal damage based on their level, now. So in that you still have a threat to the lowbie who is "pushing it".

I agree. I seem to remember complaints about that on live, high level players leaving MOBs for the lower levels to deal with, so maybe it was the other way around. That's how it was, and it was changed to "rock based". If it's not rock based here, I feel that's what it should be, no matter what it was on live. I definately don't think it should just spawn CL53 insta-killers.

That Exploration XP post brought back some memories. The controversy over that used to be insane, of course the issue is that high level characters wanted to run tours to earn XP, and so the idea that you shouldn't go to sectors above your level because you lost Explore XP was "anti-touring". The issue wasn't really that you were losing XP from a high level sector, it's that you lost XP from a LOW LEVEL sector if you outlevelled it before exploring it. As long as you finished off your start sectors first, you could do all the tours you wanted. (With some loss, but you'd make that up with the group bonus) I always thought someone should offer a tour of everyone else's start sectors first, which is really what that post describes. It actually suggests some things I never thought of, like warping to an ally so you don't touch any of the navs. Also, from the way he sticks with avoiding the asteroid/hidden navs, it sounds like they gave full XP at any level or something. I never tried to do that. I must say I used a strategy like his, and can confirm it'll get you all the way to around 25-30. And to 50 with my Explorer, using a combination of that with mining. I may have done the occasional Explore job, but no tours.

[quote name='Mattsacre' timestamp='1316633512' post='46449'] 2 credits here: Dragoncove, the popmobs in live were not player based, they were rock based. If you popped a mob out of a L5 rock the mob would be a lower CL than a mob from a L9 rock, irrespective of the players lvl. The mob would agro on a radius, the popper being the closest would of course be first agroed, if they fled depending on their scan range they could agro on other players, quite often JE's would be jerks and delibrately pop a mob to cloak and let it agro a PS. so the PS wouldn't compeate for ores they wanted, while the PS was dealing with the popmob the JE could mine rapidlly unmolested.[/quote] Granted, my memory is not what it used to be, but I could have sworn that MOBs normally spawned at the same level as the rock that spawned it, and low level players all complained that they were being insta-killed by MOBs all higher than their level. So the devs changed it so it spawned based on the player. Yes, I know it's silly and takes away the whole point of making it dangerous to mine above your level, but I seem to remember that's what the devs did. At the time, pop rocks may not have been as obvious to detect, and they weren't intended to be mined anyway. (The overabundance of ores was the real clue they were dangerous) The devs may have also wanted to encourage low level miners to mine above their level in the early game because high level resources were scarce. Once ore fields became more prevalent, they may still have wanted the low level miners to make some money in the Market. [quote]all the mobs I've seen pop so far have been L50-53, even from L4 and L5 rocks, this would be insta death for lower level players, [/quote] This seems totally wrong if this is the case. Spawned MOBs should be encouraging miners to mine at their level, not requiring miners to ignore pop rocks until they are CL 50. Then again, maybe your level IS having an effect. Maybe it's the rock's level unless your level is much higher, at which time it is your level? (Don't think I like that, I don't think it's a good idea for high levels to be able to come into a field and leave high level MOBs for low levels to have to deal with) Could it also be L4 and L5 rocks in a L9 field? I guess I need to go try and pop some rocks to do some more testing myself.

I don't know, if the MOB spawned by a pop rock is the same level as the field, it should be the same level as the other MOBs in the field. Or at least, I think that's the intention. (On live, MOBs spawned were relative to the level of the player who spawned them, which left the possibility for them to be much HIGHER than the field -- as well as much lower) So it should be no harder to deal with than any other MOB in the field. OTOH, I can understand that if there are no MOBs in the field, you may not be ready for combat. You may forgo ammo for cargo space, for instance. I suppose that if normal MOBs despawn or respawn, pop MOBs should. I would add that IMHO, it should not be necessary to go out with the most advanced combat gear available to take on a single field guardian MOB, and if it is, perhaps that is something the devs should look into. A warrior should be equipped to take on multiple MOBs, and earn Combat XP at a reasonable rate. An explorer should only need the bare minimum to take on or maybe two, unless he intentionally selects a "killer" field. Of course, Explorers and Scouts may be at a disadvantage compared to a Sentinel, having a MOB spawn on top of them with no time for them to activate their defenses and put some distance between themselves and the target. Which is why I have suggested a half second to second delay before the MOB aggros to buy time to activate Cloak. (Or wheel around and start launching missiles for a Scout) Not sure if that's possible, though, and it shouldn't really be needed if you are prepared for the pop.

[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1316534366' post='46396'] [size="7"]LOL[/size] It only took 3 days to find we were both saying the same thing. [/quote] That's actually what I figured. I suspect that you got caught up in my timeframe of "a couple of minutes", which was for the lower levels anyway. But it wasn't a solid value, just a vague sense of "you can get this done within an hour". Maybe two or three hours for 50 or 100 units. My point was that it would take about that long to search for the "jackpot" pop rock that had what you were looking for, so productivity wise it's essentially the same. As I said, I don't think the problem is the time to clear, it's just lack of fields where something is available.

[quote name='Tienbau' timestamp='1316499399' post='46375'] um ... so we're happy with the way the pop rocks work now? Or did you want me to change anything else? I think the boom should be a bit bigger, I got the formula a bit wrong for everything other than the level 9 poppers.[/quote] I did hear a conversation from someone on the New Players channel, claiming that he could no longer mine until he reached level 50, because he was insta-killed by a pop rock of the same level of his shield. Let's just say he was being overly dramatic. I was unable to confirm that I could get killed by a pop rock the same level as my shield, or if the other player had actually tried to mine a higher level rock instead. At any rate, it was pointed out that you can just avoid pop rocks if you don't have the resiliance to take their explosion. I like seeing MOBs being spawned again. And I like the stack size being reduced to normal level. Now that they can be mined, that's just what they should be, a risk for a little extra bonus. Maybe even a chance to earn some Combat XP for the MOB.

[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1316484272' post='46363'] You have been all over the place with this... Just what do you want? From what I see from your original post was that you wanted MORE of the ores in the pop rocks, you wanted to travel less distance to get those ores and you didn’t want to spend any more time getting what you needed/wanted in the way of ores than you absolutely had to do to get them. [/quote] No, no, no. How could you get that from my original post? All I said was that as long as the ores are available in the field, there is no need for pop rocks. If there is a need for more VOLUME of ores because the supply can't meet the demand, that should be supplied by an increase in ores in the FIELD. But that is not the subject of the discussion here. If you and other players feel you SHOULD discuss that, then you should. But it's not an issue that should be solved with pop rocks. I don't take a stand either way. I think the availability of high level ores on live WAS too low, but the emulator is apparently much more generous. The problem doesn't appear to be volume, but lack of viable fields. I can't comment on that directly, though, that is just observation, and the numbers of fields does appear to be increasing. I have no idea how you concluded I wanted to have less travel time. I did ask you how you felt scarcity would INCREASE travel time. Once you know where the ore spawns, it's just a matter of waiting for it.

[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1316473857' post='46354'] I was talking about the current game, but as in live and the EMU one WAS able to mine Grail Water (in qtys that seemed high). [/quote] I never said you couldn't mine Grail Water, my point was 1) whether that was sufficient to supply the demand and 2) whether the rarity of Grail Water encouraged you to look in other fields. [quote]The current quantities are insane... 20 Grail Water on a single pull??? [/quote] Is that STILL the case? It was my understanding the latest patch reduced the number of ores in a stack in pop rocks. [quote]And as for the numbers 0.66 (not even going to pull out the calculator) there are so many fewer players on than there were in live, even at sunset, that the occurrences should be lower NOT higher than live.[/quote] That shouldn't make any difference. Fewer players mean less consumption as well as less production. While there certainly will be variations due to this being a test (more players may be likely to try miners to test the functionality) as long as the ratios stay relatively equal that shouldn't effect anything. The point is, YOU mine 20 ores every 30 minutes, by your own admission. It doesn't matter whether you do that for one hour or eight hours, your production over time is 20 per 30 minutes, or 0.66 per minute. [quote]I’m done with this. [/quote] I'm honestly not sure what you are trying to say with this anyway, other than to be argumentative. First you say there is sufficient ore that we don't need pop rocks, and then you say that the supply should be severely limited. It seems to me that we are in agreement on the principle, either you underestimated the amount that you can mine in a static amount of time like 30 minutes, or you didn't understand my original point.

[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1316471760' post='46351'] I would drop off 40 to 80 every few days. But I only play for an hour or so in the early mornings, sometimes I play a bit in the early evenings. So it works out to be 20 Grail Waters in 30 min. Not bad, and way more than I ever found in live. Remember this was pre pop rocks, with the pop rocks I gave at a minimum 80 to 120 in the same amount of time. [/quote] So about 0.66 per minute. Are you satisfied with that rate, or do you believe it should be what it was on live? One thing to consider is that this is just ONE component of (I am guessing) ammo, and thus you either found the other components to the ammo more readily, or just discarded them. (As the traders either ripped the ores or just bought to components) I'm also assuming that you knew where the productive ore fields were, and you are including your travel time to them, not to mention your time to drop off the ores and sell them. While you were actually mining, I would estimate your rate to be higher, maybe 1.33 to 1.5 per minute, assuming you spent only half of your time in the act of mining. That's probably generous, I'm sure you took your miner out for combat more than just occasionally. You also were supplying your guild only during those 1-2 hours that you played per day. Obviously someone else was supplying Grail Water during the other 22 hours in a day. The point is, while it may have taken you 15 minutes to build up a stack of 20, (and then another 15 minutes to sell it) you built up a stack of 20, and in a reasonable amount of time. You don't NEED to find stacks of 20 in pop rocks, unless the demand is just so high that the warriors are going through 180 ores per hour. If it is that high, that's what needs to be discussed. Not whether or not pop rocks should have stacks of 20 in them.

[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1316470293' post='46345'] Again, this is asking for an "Easy Button" IMO. How about we just have the GMs fill our hulls with ore we ask for? That way we could be just like the botters. We wouldn’t have to play at all. [/quote] And again, how does this in any way encourage you to "explore" and leave the field? If you're not going to find more than 1-8 units of the ore that you are looking for, and won't find more than 1-8 units of the ore that you are looking for in any OTHER field, what difference does it make where you look? Pop Rocks, at the very least, were random, and provided random ores. While it might take half a minute to a minute to locate a particular ore in a field, assuming it is present, locating a stack of that specific ore in a Pop Rock might take 10 or 20 minutes. Finding a stack of 20 or it might take even longer. It might be a once in a lifetime random event, or at least once in a week. Even if you assume that you can find AN ore, of ONE unit, in an asteroid every two minutes, it will still take you only 40 minutes to mine 20. That seems to be far less than the rate you seem to be advocating. I'll also point out that as a very rough estimate I would guess that for ammo ores, if you CAN'T provide at least one for every minute (or at least, every minute a warrior is fighting) you likely will not be able to supply that ammo quickly enough. A minute is a very long time in combat, and a lot of ammo can be used in that time.

[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1316470084' post='46344'] I was pulling Grail Water (smaller qtys) and other hard to find ores before the introduction of pop rocks. If you don't believe me ask Vaden and to a lesser extent the Magoos. So what ore are you saying exist nowhere but in the pop rocks? [/quote] How long do you believe it should take to mine a stack of 20 ores? 20 minutes? 20 hours? 20 days? To me, when you said that the point of mining was to explore, I took that to mean that you should look around for a field that held the resource that you were looking for. If you want to make the resource so rare that it can only be found once every 10 or 20 minutes in ANY field, then how long it takes to find the field really does not enter into it. If anything, taking 10 to 20 minutes to establish that a resource is NOT in a field will slow down the process even more.