Holyman

Coincidentally enough Bonesarr...   I had a few gates in Aragoth where things worked fine... But everywhere else would hang almost continually.   So you're not in the U.K., and that means you won't be using Virgin Media as your I.S.P.   But it *DOES* sound like it's a Firewall issue.   One thing you can check is the "Net-7 Proxy" icon that comes up in the taskbar (all the little icons that cluster around the clock in the bottom-right of your Windows desktop) whilst you have the client loaded.   Common-or-Garden Variety Gate Hangs will turn that Net-7 Proxy icon to a black-framed square, and when you hover the mouse over it, will show something like "Awaiting Master Hand-Off". These are just the usual gate-hangs that happen very periodically with the Game client, just as they did in Live.   But if your problem is Firewall related (and it really sounds like it is), then the Net-7 Proxy icon will show "Stage 1 Completed", when the client hangs.   Try (temporarily) disabling your Firewall on your I.S.P.'s hub/router, to see if it makes any difference. If the Game then works, you can try turning the I.S.P. Firewall back on at a lower setting.   You should be able to find some non-Geek Friendly instructions on how to do that at your I.S.P.'s support pages.

  Umm... I'm not so sure you are correct.   Declaration first: I do not possess any Raid-loot on any of my 12 toons (I can [multi-box] solo the Mordana groups in KV, but don't really consider that a "Raid"); I have never participated in any Raid in the Emulator.   But not because I don't want to raid; and not because I don't want to get my hands on all that lovely Raid/Rare Gear.   But because I want to *SAVOUR* this Game.   I was thrilled when my brother pointed me at the Emulator, telling me that it was as robust, reliable and accessible as the Live version ever was. It's like being able to Time Travel: to really live the Nostalgia. I played for 2 months solid prior to the September 2012 wipe; and have been playing solidly again since the beginning of this year. And I am in *NO* rush to reach the End Game.   And that's what having all the best Raid Loot means: being at the End of the Game. Where do you go once you have everything that is anything?   Towards the end of Live (about 3 months before Sunset was announced), I bought (via Ebay Auction) a character called "Weaponfinesse" (JD) from another player, for $2.5k. It was considred to be the most well-equipped character on Andromeda, and I certainly got a lot of attention for being the purchaser... But to be quite frank, there was something rather un-fulfilling about being able to just purchase my way to the top of the Loot Tree.   After Sunset was announced, a few people asked me if I regretted buying the character; but to be honest, it was the best thing I could have done, since getting my hands on all that gear had taken all the fun and anticipation out of the Game for me. So I didn't grieve as much as I might have, when the servers were finally shutdown.   In Games like these, getting everything there is to be got can really take the enjoyment out of the Game. I periodically start a new character in Skyrim, each time determined not to use the console codes to give myself all the kit I want. And I can usually hold that determination for a while... Whilst I do, I enjoy playing the Game as it was intended to be played. But sooner or later, I succumb to temptation: I "Magic" in some money; then some gear; then eventually bump up all the skills I want... At which point I mothball Skyrim again for another six months.   Of *COURSE* there's a part of me that would like to be able to wander up to a "Special" vendor in F7, and "Sort by Awesomeness" all the Uber-Gear I'm going to buy (that others have really worked hard for...). And I know that for at least an hour or so after purchasing all the Top-of-the-Line Gear, I'll really enjoy soloing Fish Bowls and one-shotting gate turrets... But where do I go after that?   Only one place I can go: onto these Forums to start haranguing the Dev Team to create more and more challenging MOBs; and more and more Uber-Gear (which at some point shortly after I'll then be complaining is "Too Rare").   I will, in time, get around to Raiding (especially if I can figure out which ones can be Sextuple-Boxed..!). I might even have to get around to joining a Guild to participate in those Raids I can't figure out how to multi-box by myself. And at that point, the rare Raid Gear will start trickling in to my inventories, and I'll really value those items I worked to get.   But until then... I think the Raid Gear *HAS* to stay rare/difficult-to-obtain. If it wasn't... If every player in this relatively small Community had every bit of kit they ever dreamed of having... All of the effort the Dev Team have put in and continue to put into keeping this Game going, would be for nothing.   As with all things in Life: you get back whatever you are willing to give. Players won't attach any value to the best items in the Game, if they are too easy to come by.

Was a firmware upgrade on some Virgin hubs that set the Firewall to "Medium" that caused mine and another player's problems.   Resetting the Firewall to "Low" did the trick!   https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/11354-game-freezing-at-gates/page-2#entry93660

Caught your post in the other forum area Bonesarr... And asked if you were based in the U.K. and using Virgin Media...   *IF* you are...   At some point in the second week of July, Virgin Media pushed out a firmware upgrade to the majority of their routers/hubs.   A consequence of this firmware upgrade was that it set the Firewall Policy on the router/"super-hub" to "Medium".   And that meant that 99 attempts out of 100 to gate in EnB would cause the Game client to lock-up.   Setting the Firewall Policy on the router/hub to "Low" resolves the issue.   Of course... If you're not based in the U.K., or not using Virgin Media, the above may be irrelevant. But the symptoms you are describing (locking up almost every time you gate; happening on both computers you use), sound identical to the problems that I and TolkenMoon were having. We're both Virgin Media users in the U.K.; and TolkenMoon (my Hero  :wub: ) discovered the resolution.

You wouldn't happen to be based in the U.K. and use Virgin Media as your I.S.P. would you Bonesarr..?

Found this thread: https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/10477-wasted-raid-triggers-and-the-public/   Explains all.   Strikes me that primary purpose of the Raid Rotation (Treaty?) Schedule is to maintain civility and mutual respect among the players in this relatively small Community.   All other implicit and explicit purposes of the Schedule (e.g. equitable loot distribution, intra-Guild planning and organisation) are secondary to this primary purpose.   Laws and treaties get broken occasionally. If the temptation to do what a law or treaty prohibits wasn't there, there would be no need for the law or treaty.   When parties to the treaty succumb to temptation, the only appropriate response is for the parties who breached to apologise, Altering, suspending or eliminating an agreement that took effort, compromise and diplomacy to establish, in an attempt to retrospectively excuse a breach of the agreement, is disingenuous and counter-productive.   Especially where the primary purpose of the agreement is so obviously beneficial to all parties involved.   I'll shut up now.

Ah.   Can see then how the time at which a Guild chose to exercise its "Right to Raid" would have consequences for the next Guild up.   But can also see that with relatively short (in terms of a 7-day cycle) respawn times, the temptation to take down a Raid that is sitting there ripe-for-the-plucking must be overwhelming for some...   The Rotation Schedule is weekly, but the respawn times are generally between 1 and 2 (to 2 and a half) days. Is the agreement such that a Guild that holds the Rotation for the week can take down the Raid as many times as it is able, within that week? Provided that the last attempt allows for the Raid to respawn in time for the hand-off to the next Guild?   If that is the case, then it really is no business of anyone other than the leaders of the Guild that holds the Rotation for the week, when (and even if) they choose to take the Raid.   Seems straightforward enough.

As someone who is only in a Guild of one, and who hasn't participated in any raids... And also as someone who has a more limited understanding of how (and when) these Raid triggers respawn...   Is it the case that a Raid (trigger? availability?) respawn is dependent upon the time that it was previously taken down?   If so, does this mean that if a Raid is ready to go on a Sunday evening (for example), but is not taken down until say, five or six days later, that will delay the time it respawns for the next Guild in rotation?   I always observe the spike in on-line players on Sundays... I assumed that this is when some (or most) of the Raid triggers have respawned and are ready to go: suggesting that some raids are on a 7-day respawn timer..?   If this is the case, I can see how this would be problematic for Guilds awaiting their turn in the Rotation, since any delay with the previous Guild taking down the Raid will have a knock-on effect for the next Guild in rotation.   However, if (some or most of) the Raids respawn at exactly the same time every week, then it makes no difference when a Guild chooses to take down the Raid: it is their's (by agreement) for the week, to do with as they please. If the Guild whose turn it is takes it down five minutes after it respawns, it wouldn't be available for the rest of the week; so if they choose to leave it until the last minute (in the week), it is (by agreement) no concern of anyone else's that the Raid is sitting there waiting to be taken down.   But if the time at which a Guild takes down a Raid has that knock-on effect of delaying the respawn for the next Guild in the Rotation, then this has to be accounted for in the inter-Guild "Treaty".   It is fair and appropriate for one Guild to make a decision about timing their Raid to suit the requirements and availability of their own members; but if doing so delays the respawn time (by days... Not just hours and minutes...) for the next Guild in the rotation, then the current Guild's decision about timing has to take into account the requirements and availability of the next (and the next, and the next...) Guild's members too.   Or am I missing some vital piece of understanding here..?

Guess this wouldn't be a properly accurate EnB Emulator if there wasn't emotional contention over who gets to do what raids and when: feels just like the Original.  :D   Speaking as a Member of the Public:   Where does the Public Raid Sector fit into all of this?   Have I misunderstood the purpose of the PRS? I thought that most raid events could be (and were being..?) replicated in the Public Raid Sector (on Sundays?)?   If all (or most) of the raids are available in the PRS for those who desire to do them in an organised, scheduled way... Doesn't that make scheduling/rotating access to the actual, non-PRS based raid events/locations rather irrelevant?   Or have I *REALLY* misunderstood how the PRS works..?   :unsure:

AFAIK... This is the price that users who acquire Windows 10 for "Free" are being forced to pay.   It is the "Business Model" that Microsoft have come up with to explain to their (largest) shareholders why they are giving away such a enormous and key pillar of their revenue generation model.   And it is not so much about gathering personal data for Orwellian, Government-Mandated purposes... (The NSA, GCHQ &c. do that anyway...) It is about selling the information gathered to other corporations for "Targeted" advertising and marketing purposes.   It is the same Business Model that Facebook uses: have the facility free-to-use; then sell on the information acquired to other businesses that will pay for such information.   Critically though...   No large "Enterprise" is going to allow the kind of snooping (and associated bandwidth) that is compulsory with "lesser" versions of Windows 10; particularly in the Finance, Government and Security Sectors. If Microsoft insisted that the data-gathering facilities of Windows 10 could *NOT* be switched off with "Enterprise" editions of the OS, no large business or Public Sector enterprise would purchase Windows 10 (and MS would miss out on yet another Business Refresh Cycle, just as they did with the debacle that was Windows 8.x).   So if you don't want to be giving all of your information away for free (so that Microsoft can profit from selling it on), then you have to purchase Windows 10 Enterprise.   Interestingly enough... Microsoft has not yet officially released Windows 10 Enterprise, nor given much of a clue to how much it will cost (though we can assume it will be more expensive than the $200 "Professional" edition).   The overt justification for this is that most large Enterprises don't rush to do Enterprise-Wide upgrades of Operating Systems: many large businesses are only just completing the upgrade cycle from Windows XP to Windows 7 (others are still to begin..!).   A more subversive explanation would be that MS wants to encourage/entice Small-to-Medium Sized Enterprises to pick up the "Free [sic]" versions of Windows 10 over the next 12 months; before releasing the *ONLY* version that Large Enterprises (with unavoidable regulatory requirements) would be allowed to buy.   Moral of the Story:   There is *NO* such thing as a Free Lunch.   :(

Swordplay, JimmyStarz (and anyone else):   Another British player - TolkenMoon - who also uses Virgin Media identified the issue as the Firewall on the Virgin hub being set to "Medium" - possibly following a recent firmware upgrade.   Both he and I have set our Firewalls on the hub to "Low", and are both now working fine.   If you are using Virgin Media in the U.K., and you're having problems gating and docking: looks like that is what you'll need to do.   I shall be composing a song of gratitude to TolkenMoon at some point in the near future.   :blush:

Goddsdammitt..!   I *SWEAR* one of the first things I did was to disable the firewall on the Virgin hub... I swear I did..!   Wonder what else I did or didn't do at the same time..?   Anyhoo... Ummm... Well... That's sorted it! Set the hub firewall to "Low" and am now docking and gating like a good 'un..! Even multi-boxing and multi-clienting again!!   I'd be feeling a lot more ashamed and embarrassed about all the fuss, packet-captures, and over-technical suppositions I produced around this issue... But I'm just so happy to be back in the Game... I'm not!   Thanks very much to everyone who helped out and tolerated me on this: and especially thanks to you TolkenMoon - you are officially now My Hero!   :blush:

Ah... Virgin Media...   Same as me..!   And there *WAS* a firmware upgrade pushed out early-to-mid July... Which is apparently proving problematic.   Right! Going to follow your steps then... Let's see how I get on!

I have multi-boxed (a lot!) in the past... Nearly always, in fact.   But since this issue cropped up, all attempts and all diagnostic sessions have been carried out with just a single client running on a single machine on my network.   Was wading through some less-filtered Wireshark Performance Captures last night... And the one thing that really stood out... Is just how interested Google is in my interactions with the EnB back-end!   Had previously filtered down to just interactions between my client machine  and the 2 EnB IP addresses. But when I lifted that filter last night, I saw a ton of activity between my machine and around half-a-dozen Google servers.   I didn't have any browsers open. Only other application running that could plausibly be interacting with the Internet was my AV software (McAfee)... But it wasn't.   But soon as I launched the Net-7 Launcher, and then when I hit the button to launch the game itself, there was heavy traffic between my machine and those Google servers.   Would like to ask Tolkenmoon if Chrome is his primary browser actually... It is my primary browser on all three of the machines I use for EnB.   I know that Google recently killed off SSL 3.0 support in Chrome... But I thought that was earlier in the year (Chrome 40 was released at the end of January, I think...).   There were a couple of Chrome (Stable-Channel) updates on or about the 14th July:   https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+log/43.0.2357.132..43.0.2357.134?pretty=fuller&n=10000   https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/+log/43.0.2357.130..43.0.2357.132?pretty=fuller&n=10000   ...They would coincide with when my problems started. And if it is related to Chrome being the default browser on all my machines, that might explain why the problem isn't much more wide-spread among the EnB User-Base.   When I next get the chance, I'm going to first try changing my default browser to IE (11); and if I don't get anywhere with that, I'm going to rebuild one of my Windows machines from scratch, and not let anything Google anywhere near it: see if I still get the Google server traffic when I launch the Net-7 Launcher and Game.   Will keep you posted!

Duly noted Karu!

Nothing screamingly obvious.   Next bout of testing I'm going to do will be focusing on intermediate certificate revocation lists...   Going to have to broaden the IP address filter on the P-Cap, and see who else my PCs are trying to check in with during authentication.   I sent you a P-Cap yesterday which is filtered to just traffic between my PC and the two IP addresses I have on your side. Highlights of that capture set are the four RSTs I get just after the encryption is set-up, and just before the "Rules of Service" dialogue box appears.   The two curve-balls I get that may or may not be useful threads to follow, are:   I have one character (out of lots..!) that isn't always guaranteed to get stuck at "Stage 1 Completed": that's my PP, "Holybusiness".   And the other is... Primus Sector. Which once I get into (with any character), I seem to be able to keep gating in and out of without any problems.   Maybe irrelevant, but best to highlight.   Will PM you, Zackman and Redoc when I've got some more P-Caps relating to Intermediate Certificates.   Cheers,   H.

  ^^^This is *EXACTLY* what I have been getting since 14th July.   On all 3 computers that I play/have played the Game on. Have been playing without any problems at all for a solid six months. Since 14th July: exactly as described above.   I have put my ISP through their paces, and they can't find anything wrong. Have stripped off all AV, Anti-Malware and Firewall protection from my machines: still exactly the same result.   Only inconsistencies I have had to the above is when I try and gate certain characters into and out of Primus from Endriago. Then, it lets me gate as often as I like. But as soon as I try to gate into Lagarto, Tarsis or Altair III - back to being stuck at "Stage 1 Completed".   Really have put everything I've got at my end through the ringer. The gate hangs are 100% repeatable, on all 3 machines I can use.   Conversely: sticking in one sector and farming (once I can get into the sector), is totally free of any problems. No lag, no jitter, nothing weird, everything as it should be.   Since this obviously isn't affecting a large number of players, but is affecting a few, I'm tending to think of a Windows Update patch... But I've rolled them all back on one machine, and no difference.   Soooo....Frustrating! Haven't been able to play properly for a couple of weeks, and I'm nearly through the Cold Turkey shakes... Even fired up Assassin's Creed: Unity today...   Do *NOT* want to stop playing EnB!!

Thanks Kyp.   Pretty sure I have the "Delete .th6 files" checked constantly... But will double check.   Have been meeting the insistent demands of Mrs. Holyman and the Holykids the last couple of evenings (though "Ant-Man" was not entirely unenjoyable...); but anticipate having some time and space for a good diagnostics session this evening.   Have picked up some chatter on the ISP's forum that a recent firmware upgrade on certain models of cable-hubs has had an impact on multi-casting... Which may or may not directly impact EnB, but could be having knock-on effects elsewhere on my LAN.   Have been diarising my diagnostic attempts so far in the other thread in "Tech. Support", so won't repeat them here..! Suffice to say that my packet drops/resets are consistent and replicable, which makes life easier for me diagnostically, than ghastly "intermittent" ones..!   I'll PM you a few rounds of PCAPs over the weekend... You may be able to spot something my tired and distracted eyes cannot..!   Cheers,   H.

Aye, always a good check.   Have completely disabled all AV, anti-Malware and the various firewalls, at various points during my diagnostic process... All to no avail.   I'm currently snooping on my downstream neighbours on my ISP line. Also going to get my ISP to check the power levels up and down stream...   And if I discover that one of my neighbour's kids is on a Torrent-Binge... There's going to be hell to pay..!!

Day 8: Things aren't going quite as well as we'd hoped.   Seems like there is a certain Sector-Specifity at play...   The whole business with my PP - uh, "Holybusiness" - being able to gate flawlessly, seems to relate to the sector I was gating in and out of: Primus.   If I log any toon on that is docked at Arx Spartoi, Endriago... It always hangs on leaving the station.   Re-log, and I'll be just outside Arx Spartoi. Scoot over to the gate to Primus, gate through... And it hangs.   Re-log, and I'll be a couple of NP's away from the gate to Tarsis. Warp over to the gate to Endriago, and hit the gate button.   No hang.    Gate back to Primus: no hang.   Can gate backwards and forwards until I get bored: no hangs.   Gate to Lagarto: hangs.   Re-log. Gate to Odin's Belt. Hangs.   Re-log. Gate to Muspelheim. Hangs.   Re-log. Gate to BBW: no hang.   Gate back to Musp: no hang.   Gate to BBW: no hang. (&c., &c.)   Dock at QAR: no hang. Leave QAR: no hang.   Hang (sorry...) around in BBW, farming, no problems: no lag, nothing... Dock at QAR: no problem.   ...   Looking at the Wireshark logs, I always get four RST packets after clicking on the T's&C's pop-up... Don't get any further RST packets until I have to terminate the client (which is to be expected).   ...   Ping rate to the server is fairly consistent at 180ms... Which seems somewhat high... And 150ms of that is the transatlantic hop.   Unfortunately, I haven't got any pre-Issue stats to compare with. Wondering if my ISP (Virgin Media) has recently switched to a different (cheaper...) transatlantic carrier...   ...   I'm going outside now, and I may be some time.

OK. Good luck!   You'll get the Phone Book when you first start logging; so you may want to try a filter like this one:   (ip.src == 74.208.132.71) || (ip.dst == 74.208.132.71) ||(ip.src == 74.208.192.215) || (ip.dst == 74.208.192.215)   You can probably copy and paste that in, to get you started.

Wondering if RGHawk is referring to Quality decline..?   (Which is *NOT* repaired/reset/improved by the "Repair Equipment" skill RG.)

Yup, I'm fairly determined to get to the bottom of this!   Was a bit surprised at my findings last night, with regards which toon I logged on first. But that's given me a nice thread to follow for On-going Investigations...   Fairly sure by now that the NIC swap-out was a red herring. Swordplay's issues started before the NIC swap after all; it was only that mine, JimmStarz "and several others" started on the 14th July that made me think of that.   Frustrating as this issue is, I'm not likely to move into Whining Brat Mode! I've been providing IT Support as a professional for 25 years now, and I know full well how frustrations with unresolved issues can make you latch onto causes that you think are outside of your control, just because you can't identify the issue on your own set-up...   It's just a question of finding the unique characteristics of the problem that can be consistently replicated, then work back from there.   Of course, aside from what may have changed on my rigs, and aside from what may or may not have changed in EnB-HQ, there is always the possibility of some unknown/unannounced change that has been made by my ISP... I'm on Cable rather than DSL, so I'm not usually troubled by down- or upstream changes... But there are obviously a lot of hops between where I am and where the EnB Infrastructure is... So who knows what's going on in between us!!   Will keep persevering; and will keep updating! 

Since this problem cropped up last week, I have only been playing a single client at a time.   And I'm on a (very) wired connection..!   Also: I am doing my utmost to not stop playing this Game: I love it to bits..!!   Right..! More news from my Diagnostic Research:   If I start the client, and logon with my Progen Privateer - Holybusiness - first, I can exit the station (currently in Endriago), and I can gate into Primus and back, and into Lagarto and back... Without any problems..!!   So:   Step 1: logon my PP Step 2: exit Arx Spartoi Step 3: warp to gate to Primus Steps 4 - 24: gate backwards and forwards between Primus and Endriago Step 25: warp to gate to Lagarto Steps 26-36: gate backwards and forwards between Lagarto and Endriago Step 37: warp back to Arx Spartoi Step 38: dock.   Then...   If I log off my PP without restarting the client, and log back on with another toon (have tonight been trying with my PW - Holywar - and my PS - Holymann), I can repeat the above steps without any problems at all.   However...   If I start the client, and logon first with either my PW or PS... It hangs leaving the station.   If I then restart the client, and logon with either my PW or PS (now floating in Endriago space)... And warp to either the gate to Primus or Lagarto... And then try and gate... It hangs.   Now I ran through the above cycle 3 times, over the course of about 90 minutes (22:15 - 23:45 GMT + 1)... And it replicated the findings every time.   I'll be having another crack at it tomorrow evening.   But basically, what I found this evening is:   If I logon to the client with my PP first, then fly around a bit, gate a few times, then dock, then logon another toon...   I don't get any Gating or Docking hangs.   But if the first toon I logon to the client with is *NOT* my PP... Then I can't even get out of a station, much less pass through any gates...   Really, really can't see how the above symptoms can be related to my set-up, when I haven't made any changes at all to it (it's been in EnB-Only lockdown) for six months.   Like I said, will be re-running the above tests tomorrow evening... But can't see how what toon I first logon with making the difference, is due to a fault on my rig...   Though I'm still not saying it definitely isn't, mind!!   :unsure:

Definitely no Windows 10 upgrade request..!! And definitely no background downloads going on...   Also looks like the new network card in the Portal server was a red herring: keeping the browser closed does away with the occasional http refresh to the portal server.   Situation has now reached Game-Unplayable Proportions - which I'm gutted about, after a solid six months of completely trouble-free EnB'ing.   Wireshark (Open Source Packet Analyser - https://www.wireshark.org/) is showing a packet reset almost every time I gate.   I.e. every time I gate, when it comes to the "Stage 1" authentication for the new sector, my client sends a SYN to try and open a connection, and gets an RST back.   Previously, when I would get the very occasional Gate-Hang (less than 1% of gating attempts), it was nearly always because of the sheer number of gates I had traversed since launching the client. I would know the hang was coming, because there would be no (red) animation on the gating screen, showing which sectors I was gating between. And when I relogged, I would be in some random location in the sector I had been trying to gate *FROM*...   But with these hangs that have been happening since last week (more than 95% of gating attempts), they will happen at the very first gate attempt after client re-launch. The animation screen will show the sector-to-sector animation; and when I restart the client, my toon is always in the sector I was gating *INTO* when the game hung; usually either at the gate or right outside the station, if the sector has a station.   Really, really have been through everything I can think of... And I've been trouble-shooting PC, Server and Network issues for a living for 25 years - so I can think of a lot..! But no changes I can make on my side alter the symptom or remedy the issue at all.   Every ounce of my intuition and experience is telling me that something has changed on the server-side... Clearly not something obvious or catastrophic enough to knock out all (or even most) clients - or we'd have all heard about that by now...   However... Conscious that "Wishful Thinking" has often led me to obsess about a non-existent problem that is outside of my ability to remedy... So will keep plugging away.   I notice Swordplay that your issues began at the beginning of June, and I know there were a bunch of security-related Windows Updates pushed out by Microsoft then. The ones from last week were mostly in response to the hacking of The Hacking Team in Italy...   Wondering if this is something that is just affecting 64-bit Windows 7 OS's... Reading through MS's KB articles on the recent updates, there was at least one that deals with updates to strengthen DES encryption... So focusing my attention around that at the mo.   Would be a personal tragedy if I have to stop playing this Game, just as I've completed Stage I of Agrippa with one set of toons, and am part way through the Dragon's Claw with another set..!   :unsure: