Daywolf

There really isn’t any discussion about open PvP, apart from people using it as an example to try to stop the decision to add PvP at some point as has already been decided upon. But among those that PvP (of which also PvE) there is no mention among them to make it open. You jumped into such a discussion with a slanted remark, was anyone discussing open PvP in that thread? Yes open PvP could solve some KS’ing issues to a degree, or great degree, better than trying to script the fix, but would only open another can of worms. There is no fool-proof fix, apart from instancing. Would you really want to play EnB all so instanced like Guild Wars or Anarchy Online? Instancing is only good in special cases, and hah certainly not for any co-op PvP. PvP is far more/better than just two combatants mindlessly slugging it out in some arena, just like PvE is better in open space with other players around you and contributing by way of co-op.

There is no no. You either vote as an ass or a whiner lolThird option was: It’s time to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and I’m all out of bubblegum. But there is no ass kicking option in the game mechanics so I left it At least I mean no no as in not accidental, unless you play the whole game in the newbie spawn for two shot kills (if there is KS'ing, to be fair to the poll). KS'ing after newbie areas is deliberate. It's not about accidental attacks, that's not what I meant by no, it can take a few minutes to take a MOB down.

vote

Well it's pre-beta, so expect it to go down a lot, but less often over time as it has, as it's become more stable. I don't think anyone really wants to post an explanation every time it goes down, especially when it;s not always known why it goes down. That is not so easy to determine. I only wonder why it doesn't restart automatically. As for knowing that it went down, or the need for them to post that it is down, maybe this will help you out? http://www.net-7.org/ If you think it's scheduled maintenance, I don't think that's the case, it just crashes most of the time.

Was that really needed? Repetition? Would that be something enjoyable to do again and again? And what stops it from being easily done when there are not so many around to guard the gates? Can't say I'm sold on it, but points for trying really. Good to have positive dialog.The basis for what I mentioned probably is best known in like SWG or some of the games that function like that (pre-nge to be specific), where each class has a role so to conquer a base and cannot be done solo.

While I agree that it is simple from a moral standpoint, in practice there is only the mechanical solution. Was it Kyp that said that in part it’s about community which sets the standard etc (paraphrasing)? But even player justice has proven to be an utter failure. Take Ultima Online for instance, the great concept at launch was that Player Justice will trump abuse issues, but ultimately that was purely idealism and the result was rivers of blood flowing through Britannia, mostly easy kill newbie blood. Though there were many players that did enforce Player Justice often called Red Hunters, we/they were outnumbered by players that said they were justified in doing so because of the mechanics of the game. Even stealing houses from people and selling on eBay for real-world money was perfectly acceptable to them (and ignored by EA), and forming guilds just for that purpose was very popular. No, ultimately it needs to be handled on the server-code Nanny level style, because in a game world where consequences from negative actions are only temporal (if even that) players will take advantage of the system and thumb their noses at the community on a whole. Ok so why not make it a comprehensive Nanny system? Here is the problem, and I’ve written over 500 server side mmog scripts from quests to D20 combat systems (the whole shebang), the problem is that such a nanny level code is heavy on server processes. The more lengthy you script a particular system, the more server power you need to execute such scripts. Not a problem for scripts that are rarely executed, but in this case it is something that gets executed by all players on a regular basis. So to make the perfect nanny script, well in theory it can be done, but you would need to invest in a powerful server cluster to actually run the game. Make sense? So how do you deal with it here at this time? Well I mentioned a situation I was in on ST3 where someone took advantage of the system, even seeing that the MOB kept attacking me so that they would get safe attack damage while I struggled with damage and drained power (was the second of two mobs in Carpenter). I handled it by not saying anything, just moving on. I do that because I know the person may do something like the OP did, try to start a flame war then maybe post it in forums. Some people get off on that, it’s fun for them. And this guy, when I returned 15 minutes later after making a run to a station to clear inventory, he was gone, he could not handle the spawn area with what he selected at the login screen. I mean he was even level with me, trying to attack them up close while I was kiting which even that was unsafe, but if he had requested to party we could have both benefited, but that is not as easy as KS’ing.

Or you can buy something for cheap like Fraps. You can take screen shots but also video from any hotkey combo you set. Lots of other tools in it and really minimal on system resources. There are some other apps too and that are for free. I use Fraps though, good well rounded package.

I absolutely agree. You pretty much need to set out to grief other players if KS'ing, currently. Rare instances where groups are squabbling over some rare named mob, but instancing code CAN be written for the server. ...though I wouldn't count on instancing any time soon, really need multi-server/server farming code first (many servers for one game world/universe) with dynamic load balancing. But maybe someone will start writing and testing instancing soon, since it can take some time to really polish.

It's not off topic, you just disagree with it. What it is is the only true resolution to stop KS'ing. Of course I'm probably just talking to myself, I mean you brought up open PvP, threw every person that PvP's into one lump of messed up players. Where did I ever say that I was in favor of open PvP here? Why would I want to hear all the soloist players wine about it? I mean they wine about any forced grouping game, just like what happened to old EQ. To have open PvP requires that players travel in groups for protection. That's why I don't have a problem with it (as I said), because I'm not a solo player... or try not to be but it's not easy finding groups in mmogs since they have moved to solo environment games over the past seven years or so. You bring up some crazy point about EnB not being designed for the ability to have PvP, but you are absolutely wrong, but I don't think you heard a word I said. You can't "modify" something that doesn't exist, and that includes PvE. PvE here is a recreation from scratch, not a mod, it was in the same state as PvP was from the beginning, non-existent, just like it was in ST1. There is no game generator where you press a button and all the scripting/coding/systems are magically re-generated. It's only your opinion, you don;t like this or that, but that does not make it by design. People still play that in multiplayer? Hmmm... I have it but just not installed any longer. Oh well, I have Planetside and BF2142 for that type of game anything with American style mech-warriors

You are speaking of EnB live. All that is server-side. We have absolutely no original server code. We have no PvE, out of the box all there is is a deep dark void and nothing more. There is no arena, there is no mob spawn, there are no combat mechanics/scripts, no NPC dialog, no mission terminals, all lost. PvE and PvP is what we make of it, there are no limitations or predefined spectrums that must be rigidly adhered to. PvE is desired for live simulation, but PvP is by no means locked into what live once did, and can co-exist with PvE and one not effecting the other, neither by mechanics nor community involvement.

Actually the environment isn't bad, just the character art is pretty poor imo. That's what color swatches and custom filters are for. You can take photo realism and make it cartoon style, all uniform to the environment as a whole. Then the rest is dependent on shaders, all the post processing techniques most often applied to real-time rendering engines. Style is personal preference, but does not impede upon technique usage to achieve desired effects. The problem with having only photo realistic icons is that it throws of the uniformity of what is being rendered by the game as a whole. At least IMO, all graphics should have uniformity. The only difference is at camera level that the player is up-close and personal that quality should be a bit higher compared to things that are at distance. So like ceilings or skyboxes are less important than character models or walls. But in all cases, they should be uniform in color ranges and any post processing techniques applied. Usually develoment documents cover the required tecniques involved so to achieve uniformity.

So I’m not sure what you are talking about. So Europe paid for our nuclear power facilities so to make weapons grade plutonium and the required delivery system’s design, testing and manufacturing. Set up bases and service our boomer and attack subs. Paid for replacement parts, paid annual GI salary, covered all logistics etc etc etc? During the 80’s and 90’s Europe flipped the bill for the 60% of the total defense budget spending that went to fortifying and defending Europe? Much of which is still a part of our debt figures. And you say as of current, there is no threat against Europe? So the whole deal with putting defense weapons in Poland that the Russians strongly protested to, that was just because they were looking out for the interests of Europe? Sort of like their interests in their good neighbor Georgia that they dealt with recently? And the business dealings in the middle-east proves that Russia has only peaceful intentions globally? Play chess? Of course not a flame, but a barrage of question yet only covering a small part of the big picture. But we agree on something, though my fellow countrymen for the most part disagree with me on that point, about getting out of Europe, and yes many (not all) other parts of the world. And doing so would lift heavy financial burden as well as to better fortify our domestic capabilities in regards to our own regional defense. But you see, positions change, powers tend to shift not all at once but over time. So what may not seem like a threat to you (not directed at you) in time becomes so. This does not happen over night, but gradually over time. And by the time that threat is noticed, it is already in position to have dominance in the given situation; all the steppingstone paths were crossed and the destination simply a hop away before the world takes notice. Study Sun Tzu’s The Art of War? Know the difference and usage between the games Chess and Go? But it seems that whatever the US does, it can do no right in regards to world opinion. I mean even recently with the Blair trials, it gives me even more desire to get out of Europe and focus purely on home defense, because a path taken to where it leads always has a starting point, but the destination remains the same regardless to where the traveler is at any given instance on that path. I think Europe’s path is set, choices have already been made and the destination is simply unavoidable. It may seem like the easy path, but it really isn’t. AARP and many other institutions are on that same path, but I think they are masters of Go as well, where as most people probably don’t understand the correlations. A little sleep for the eyes, a folding of the hands. Yet unfortunately my previous post still amounts to no more than a jest. You see, that wont solve it, there would be much more to do beyond that, but you cant bring anything good out of corruption, only bring good things into corruption. Until the corruption is dealt with, nothing good could ever come of anything. But I hold no animosity, it's simply the failings of human nature. Safe travels to you.

Ok I'll bite, but I'll probably regret it haha. The fix is easy, I'll explain how it's done You know how they say Europe has an awesome health care system? How we (in the US) should be more like Europe? Well we can!! All we need do is pull our troops and resources out of Europe. The savings would give us a huge allowance to cover the uninsured; we could insure just about every low-income household that lacks insurance. Problem solved, and AARP can take a flying leap Ok, one setback... Europe will need to protect themselves, increase their army, develop and manufacture the equipment to protect themselves. They won't have the money for their health care any longer. Their health care system will collapse. Oh well, it's not a perfect world

Nothing wrong with this game by design for PvP. And I don't mind non-consensual, but it's irritating to hear the solo players wine about it and do what you just did. I mean I wouldn't clump everyone into one pile, there are many that hunt the "cutthroat players" in such games. Can't do anything about it here though, rude players have immunity, but at least I guess they can't start ganking on lowbie/newbie players. Now if this were non-consensual, if you actually had experience with it, you wouldn't be trashing on those players, as you would be thanking such players for their protection. Some of the best mmog players I have ever met were such guardians, they were not cutthroats. But mmog's are mostly solo based now, it went that way six or seven years ago, and the right to earn valor and honor in PvP has been tainted for the give-me-give-me players. heh

ugh yeah, AARP is... well I don't recommend supporting them I'll just say. A number of watchdog groups can fill any in on their practices, for those not in the know. I don't feel like talking politics here though, it's not something eagerly accepted in gaming forums. IBTL.

It's cuz ya picked teh wrong class at duh login screen

In RL? Sure, I've spent 1000's of hours backpacking and hiking, mostly in the mountains. I'm an mmog? meh. I prefer quests and missions. Usually, camping to grind is lame, seriously lame. I like group PvP, but PvE questing is by far what I prefer to do more than anything, even to the point of knowing how to script all types of quests heh. I only camp for lack of content. EnBemu of course needs that darn mission terminal, as that was most of my game on Live. Anyway, that was actually anti-camping I said oh well, back to work

Oh yeah, sure, I didn't say "abandon-ware" because EnB is certainly not. I said abandoned franchise, meaning that they are not heading for an EnB2 or even running EnB. They still own rights to that, but this emu is not cutting into their bottom-line of a game or game franchise. Like someone mentioned creating an EnB2 a couple weeks ago, but EA/WW owns the franchise rights even though they abandoned ever continuing on with it from a development standpoint. See, even when a Star Wars MUD code-base was created (SWmud), the main concern was about cutting into the franchise, but LA is good with that as long as it is non-profit. However, graphical games undergo far more scrutiny when it comes to usage rights, because if it were a graphical MUD (mmorpg) it could cut into the bottom-line of their existing SW mmorpg's. EMU usage is a whole other beast than what I'm used to dealing with, I've only been/am envolved with original projects on the indie level (mmog's), and in that area of development, intellectual rights are taken very seriously for obvious reasons.

Well, that’s more about opinion, Kyp. I know other EMU projects that won’t touch that position with a 10ft pole. Of course they are dealing with having the original live servers in operation as EnB doesn’t. It doesn’t take much for them to get shut down as some player EMU servers have. But with EnB? Well they may still retain all rights for their client, but it’s an abandoned franchise (that much is true), so intervention is very unlikely imo. Yes, I agree though, enough with the legal garbage, it’s a talked to death topic. *Stops beating dead horse with a:)ft pole*

hehe, not going to happen, Kyp. I mean where accidents occur, sure thing! But in cases like this... well I still think the thread should be locked imo. I mean since the topic is not a discreet question about a subject but brings up a specific player to make it personal, it's posted with intention for public humiliation. It's like what Tyran said (he's absolutely right) some people get off on it and other things that mess with players, and the thread is just another attempt at that.

I’d suggest waiting for ST5 or beta/live and register it first (first come first serve). Who owns a name? If it were your long time forum name, I could see the point. But stripping a player of the name they are using, well it leaves their character w/o a name. I had a name in ST1 and ST2, but someone registered it in ST3, but I made it a point to get it back in ST4 as I did (not my sig name). Even though I consider it a main char name (1 of 2), I just chilled and got it back as I did:)

KS’ing isn’t usually done by groups, but by individuals against other individuals. When you have a group of players, there is often/a-chance-of one that says “that’s not right” so it happens less often. When you get to groups competing for rare spawns, that is not the norm and doesn’t qualify all instances of KS’ing as being ok which are usually 1 vs. 1 (that‘s why I like group PvP). Take this case for instance, it wasn’t a group, just two people, one saying it was his because he could DPS faster. IMO, the chat log/img is childish, it’s just an attempt to grief a player and/or cause petty squabbles in the forum. This thread should be locked.

Seriously, if you run into a camp and want a piece of an epic mob, party. ASk them to send an invite (don't just spam invite them), and then everyone is happy.

Uh, if someone starts fighting a mob and another jumps in and starts trying to get that 51%, sure that's KS. If someone gets the first hit, I break off, it's theirs, even if I have bigger guns and can take it out faster. On my missile boat, this happens now and then, because I don't target on visual but from screen edges, so sometimes I miss seeing someones starting attack but then see the health bar on the target going down after I already let loose 6+ missiles. Just because I can do damage faster, doesn't make the target mine. I've had this happen to me during ST3, someone KS'ing. He flew in and started attacking my target that I had already engaged. The target kept firing at me while this guy was racking up safe damage. He was doing more damage, but I was taking more since I had to get more aggressive to outdo him. Imo that's just wrong. Just because the mechanics rewards the 51% doesn't eliminate KS'ing, just gotta use your brain on the issue, and show consideration for fellow players.

Well anyway, like I said before, I’m fine with multi-boxing. Now, what I think would be a good system is that once mission terminals are working that anti-camping rules would be put in place with multi-boxing. In other words, multi-box groups cant hang out in one spot and camp mob‘s. But on the move with missions would be acceptable. This way solo players or actual groups don’t get blocked out of spawns. Then of course mining would be ok too, so having a warrior class to cover in mob spawn mining areas. Additionally, the ability to log more than one character per game account, rather then physical multi-boxing (multi-computer) or using virtual system. But that not being worked on until after mission terminals are working, or there would be just TOO much camping I would think.