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Raids for small guilds


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Generally when I'm playing my JE I'll use plasma for fighting, on pretty much any mob (assuming he's not immune to plasma, or vulnerable to energy enough to make up for my lack of an energy debuffer).

My JE's stuck w/ energy ATM, as I don't have any prints for L9 plasma weapons (my self imposed challenge is to only use items I have prints for). My PP or TT debuffs for him w/ a Cobalt Megahurtz. Unfortunately, the Chimaera/Manticore/etc seem to be hard to get prints for...
 

For fighting in general, when you do damage to a mob, look at the numbers from the damage.

You can also use the /showdamage command to find out precisely what the mob is hitting you with.

Of course, I was hoping to find out what to equip before I got shot at :)
 

higher levels of Gravity Link (PW/PE) also have...   I think it's impact & explosive, @ L5+ but someone would have to verify that for me.

Impact, yes. Never heard about explosive, I'll have to test that sometime.

L7 Gravity Link gives you a -30% Impact debuff. This stacks with the -60% Impact debuff from the Skirmish Omega, giving you an impressive -90%. Biggest debuff in the game, I think.
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For defense against damage, if you can spare the slots, equip an Ivory Ward & a Tolerance.  That will cover all your deflects.  In addition the explorer classes have "animal skin" lines of devices to give you activated deflect buffs.  Most of the L9 beams you'll be able to use will drop from raids.  At least the plasma ones.  The Pitbull Sr. may drop outside of a raid, but not sure there. 

 

When the Mars Construction Project comes along, assuming it's like EnB Origins, the Gaze of Amah is a reward that the JE can use.  6 second plasma beam, 40% turbo, and I think it also gets a beam damage buff.  In EnB Origins, a JE could build the Gaze of Amah, despite not having the Build Weapons skill.  The beam was no-trade, required a max build skill, and had steep requirements for the print.  You had to work for it, but it was a nice beam you could get from mining, though a lot of mining would be required to get it.

 

Between my characters I intend to be able to build many things, some of everything, but I don't restrict myself to only things I can build myself.

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For defense against damage, if you can spare the slots, equip an Ivory Ward & a Tolerance.  That will cover all your deflects.

Yep, have those. Though my PW hardly needs them, L10 Combat Trance is ridiculous.
 

Most of the L9 beams you'll be able to use will drop from raids.  At least the plasma ones.  The Pitbull Sr. may drop outside of a raid, but not sure there.

Everything I've heard says the L8 Pitbull can drop (rarely) outside of raids, but L9 is raid only.
 

Between my characters I intend to be able to build many things, some of everything, but I don't restrict myself to only things I can build myself.

It can be tough, but it's also fun to try to cobble together a good loadout with the stuff I can build. Also more rewarding when I do finally get that rare print I'm missing.
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Glad to hear that that the majority of the larger guilds are lending help to smaller guilds. Guess the competition factor after the alliance was called null and void helped.

 

I remember back when my old guild tried to get into the "rotation" and were ignored by the big 3. But after we "got nasty" and kept the big 3 out or the raids, did they even take us serious and add us in.

 

I think it is great that the majority of the big 3 are mentioned as being helpful and not as elitist jerks.

 

Back in my old guild we tried to be nice about it, only when we were told "you are not good enough" did we get nasty and ended up with complaints about our actions by locking out the elitists.

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Yep, have those. Though my PW hardly needs them, L10 Combat Trance is ridiculous.
 
Everything I've heard says the L8 Pitbull can drop (rarely) outside of raids, but L9 is raid only.
 
It can be tough, but it's also fun to try to cobble together a good loadout with the stuff I can build. Also more rewarding when I do finally get that rare print I'm missing.

 

I'd agree that it would be tough, but to me any great print obtained is rewarding.  I would ultimately like to be able to build most of the things my characters need or want on my own, but I do think that I'm going to have to buy some things on Market.  If I have to get a looted item by buying it on market, I can live with that, since I still had to earn the credits to get it.  I do think, though, that if it's a truly rare or uber item, one is probably going to have to get the drop yourself.  (I suspect we'd be in agreement on that last sentence.)

 

One of the reasons I so look forward to the MCP is the Gaze of Amah beam, I intend to make one of those on my JE Terrell.  Maybe on my other JE Terrwyn too, but she's too small right now.

 

I do like that the Emerald Devastator, requires that the player who wishes to use it, loot the beam himself, analyze it himself, and build it himself.  I think a few items like that are a good thing, as it encourages people to build, for at least some of the items they want.  I've only ever held one of them, though I never built it.  The character that saw it floating in space, abandoned, in early ST4, was my JE (no trade).

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I'd agree that it would be tough, but to me any great print obtained is rewarding.

Oh yes, it is, but if all my characters have already bought it on market, then it's sort of the difference between "Cool, I can build this for others when they need it" and "Ooh, I can finally use this one myself"
 

but I do think that I'm going to have to buy some things on Market.  If I have to get a looted item by buying it on market, I can live with that, since I still had to earn the credits to get it.

It's totally within my rules to buy non-buildable items if available, as you said I had to earn the the money to buy them. Early on, I bought a few other things, mostly reactors, because I started off working on my PW, TT and JE. So at that time, the rule was, if it could possibly be built by my TT, I had to get the print (and build skill) myself. Because they're so critical, I also bought 3 Ivory Wards, before a kind soul gave me one to print.

I've been tempted a few times to buy items in auctions to print (especially the CFB), but at this point it kinda feels like cheating since I technically have characters that could loot them. Same with freebies.
 

I do think, though, that if it's a truly rare or uber item, one is probably going to have to get the drop yourself.  (I suspect we'd be in agreement on that last sentence.)

Unfortunate, but true :(
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Oh yes, it is, but if all my characters have already bought it on market, then it's sort of the difference between "Cool, I can build this for others when they need it" and "Ooh, I can finally use this one myself"
 
It's totally within my rules to buy non-buildable items if available, as you said I had to earn the the money to buy them. Early on, I bought a few other things, mostly reactors, because I started off working on my PW, TT and JE. So at that time, the rule was, if it could possibly be built by my TT, I had to get the print (and build skill) myself. Because they're so critical, I also bought 3 Ivory Wards, before a kind soul gave me one to print.

I've been tempted a few times to buy items in auctions to print (especially the CFB), but at this point it kinda feels like cheating since I technically have characters that could loot them. Same with freebies.
 
Unfortunate, but true :(

 

Yeah, but it also gives you the option to rebuild it, if it's quality gets dinged, beyond what you deem acceptable.  Granted it's not as rewarding as DIY from scratch.  Right now I have 2 L150 toons, a JE and a JT.   The JT has several overdings, the JE only a couple.

 

Right now I've got 3 characters with one or more maxed build skills.  I'll add my PT is a fourth.  It's just a matter of the pain of reaching TL45 on her.  Between the characters I have with max build skills, engines & Progen reactors aren't available yet.  JT, TT, and Scout, have maxed builds.  For now I'm leveling up engines on my JT with overdings, I'd originally planned to do that on my TW, but I've not really felt like playing him.  Eventually my Scout may take over engines from my JT if it becomes necessary to build Progen engines.  (I like my Scout better than my TW because she can mine, and he cannot.) 

 

I'll have to use one character to farm mobs I'd not want to normally kill, most likely candidates for that are my PW or TW, since so far I'm not really that into those characters.  I'm in no rush to get them to 150, but it's necessary.

 

I haven't bought auctioned items, as of yet, but I wouldn't rule it out depending on the item.  I'd prefer to earn it through one of these future small guild raids instead.  IMO it's cheaper, and likely more fun, to complete the raid itself than to amass enough credits to win an auction.  I have bought some non-manufacturable items, like an EoFF for my JT as well as prototype L9 plasma beams.  Eventually, I intend to equip her better.  Would love to get the Made to Live and DG prints on her.

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Right now I've got 3 characters with one or more maxed build skills.  I'll add my PT is a fourth.

The only problem w/ spreading your build skills around, is that you'll have to do the build grind on all of them to hit 200% on L9. My TT is my main builder and can build pretty much anything he has the build skills for. In ST4 I used my JS to do reactors, but they can't do any progen reactors. The PP, on the other hand, can do most of the important Jenquai reactors. So this time around my PP handles all my reactor building. While this plan leaves my TT severely underpowered in combat, it also means all my warriors can be overpowered because they don't have to spend points on build skills.
 

I'll have to use one character to farm mobs I'd not want to normally kill, most likely candidates for that are my PW or TW, since so far I'm not really that into those characters.  I'm in no rush to get them to 150, but it's necessary.

I used to be pro-Jenquai, and I wasn't a fan of my PW early on, either. Always running out of energy. Once I hit Combat Trance L6, though, it was great. Once I added a CT boosting item, I could hardly ever see my reactor power drop. And my PP is a really nice companion for him.
 

I'd prefer to earn it through one of these future small guild raids instead.  IMO it's cheaper, and likely more fun, to complete the raid itself than to amass enough credits to win an auction.

Agreed, on all counts.
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I also like the JT's play style better than the PT, not just her building capabilities.  The PT being able to build the Jenquai Only reactors, is likely balanced at least partially, by the JT being able to build the Progen Only reactors.  But neither can build the Restricted items of the opposite race.  I do wish that the JT was a better support character, but I find her fairly easy to play solo.  I do wonder why either character is allowed to build the other race's reactors, since having both traders, removes the need for that.

 

I agree on the PITA in leveling up build quality.  I'm not sure if the leveling up of that is per character, or per build within the character.  I'm hoping the former, because the latter would be more painful.  The main reason I spread it around, was so that my characters could be more versatile sooner. 

 

I'm also hoping that at some point in the future, there are more prints that come as mission rewards, and some of those items be only obtainable by certain classes.  The Progen have Agrippa, I'm not sure but aren't  there are some prints that you cannot get as a non-Progen, even with an invite.  IMO that's a good thing, and I'd like to see the other races get their equivalent items.   Over time I think it's a good thing as it distinguishes the individual classes more, and gives players more things to do, if they wish to cover everything.

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I also like the JT's play style better than the PT, not just her building capabilities.  The PT being able to build the Jenquai Only reactors, is likely balanced at least partially, by the JT being able to build the Progen Only reactors.

The problem is that the common reactors for Progen are all Jenquai Restricted, so a JS can't build them. The common reactors for Jenquai (Gallina/Draco/Cygnus) are Jenquai Only, so a PP can build them.
 

I'm not sure if the leveling up of that is per character, or per build within the character.  I'm hoping the former, because the latter would be more painful.

Per character.
 

The Progen have Agrippa, I'm not sure but aren't  there are some prints that you cannot get as a non-Progen, even with an invite.

Non-progen can only do Stage 2 (with an invite), which gets them L7-L8 items, and a "component" item needed to build other L7 items.

Also, only PW can make chem ammo for the Flechette launcher. Only Jenquai can make the plasma ammo, and only Terrans can make the explosive ammo. And they all need loot-only components to make them. Which is why I use impact...
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Yeah, I'd agree there, right now the ability to build across race benefits the PT more than the JT.  I do wonder why Progen or Jenquai are allowed to build the other's race "only" items.  The addition of the PT removed the reason that JEs were allowed to build some Progen reactors in EnB Origins, namely that no one else could build reactors at all back then.  Since it's not likely to go over well if that ability is taken away, don't be surprised if some future Progen Only reactors, that are nice, be added to balance the scales a bit on that.  It's probably the fairest solution that won't anger the player base.

 

PT should be a good builder, as should JT, though the master should be the TT. 

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PW is the only toon that can build ALL flechette ammo types, the others are limited.

Yeah, you're right, sorry about that. Been a couple months...

Also, now that I think about it, PP can build chem ammo, just not plasma/explosive. Edited by JoeTheDestroyer
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Yep 2 feathers donated, so this is one step closer to being a reality. :)

Good news... Any more progress?

Also, another question for the raid experts occurred to me. We have some recommendations on group compositions, but what about skills? What skills would you consider are crucial for a raid for each character type? I would say Rally and healing skills are no-brainers, but what about others?
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Ok folks you sign up here, now in an effort to get as many folks as possible involved I say we all say when we will be available for the raid and see if we can reach a workable schedule. Just state which days and time is good for you and we see if we can schedule something. Or should I start a new topic for this?

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I'm available most days, but not always, when you decide on a time, post it in forums.  I live in FL so I would need it in Eastern time.  Unless something interferes I can bring my JE.   Might be a good idea to give a couple of days notice.

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I'd suggest very strongly that you use the net-7 Teamspeak server - it's loads easier when raiding to be able to communicate using voice instead of trying to type.

 

Also, if you come on TS and are short a healer or tank or whatever, you can butt into some guild channels and ask. I know at Epic Gamers we occasionally ask builders for help on a raid and they have occasionally invited us on some raids too.

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TeamSpeak does help and people need to remember, you don't need a mic to participate... I know a lot of PC users don't have Microphones.. But you can listen to the group leaders in a raid and respond to their requests.  It is very helpful to quickly coordinate an attack or which mob to focus on. 

 

It seems the biggest obstacle to public raids is a routine... Maybe we can designate a particular week day?  Say Wednesday evening?  Or Saturday Evening to public raid sessions?  This can allow more people to be prepared and ready to raid and online for it.

 

  • Mordana Raids (4) -> OL135-OL150 -> 1 Group to 1 group and a support group (JE/Looter/etc)
  • Tada-O gate (Triggered) -> OL150 -> 1 to 2 groups, 3 gets a little hard to manage.  Often a designated looter is good here too...
  • Fishbowl Raid (Triggered) -> OL150 -> 2 to 3 Groups and a looter is good here too....
  • Oni Raid (Triggered) -> OL135-OL150 -> 1 Group + a JE/TS looter.  Grav well makes it hard to warp around but a TS and JE are good candidates due to Gravwell/shear

Triggered raids can be more complex to get going, as the trigger is often hard to make.  But any OL 150 TT/JS can build a Gate and Fishbowl trigger with some effort. Often it is customary that the person contributing the trigger is allowed to "Reserve" an item from the raid as payment for their trigger.  A trigger donation could be for one of the non-trade loot items or for trade items such as carapaces and equipment.  TT/JS and with a little effort PP can Trigger the gate raids.  Any class can trigger the fishbowl.  Oni raid requires L9 devices, so you'll need a Jenquai or PS/TS to trigger it.

 

Mordana raids are a good fallback, many printable and useful manufactured items from from these raids.

 

Oni Raid has a few nice items such as the ID matrix and EGO matrix for builders.

 

The biggest thing with a looter is they need to be trustworthy and able to handle the non-trade v.s. trade items with care.  A lotto system,  used by many guilds, is good to make sure that participants can get a fair shot at the goodies. 

 

Another major consideration is group construction.

 

1 Group or Primary (Lead) group:

  • DPS 1 + Driver: PW to drive and tank, biggest SIG you can get and keep the agro.  Shield Sap to keep the agro away from the healers.
  • DPS 2: TE with Biorepression and Hacking maxed.  This is to keep bosses and groups of mobs under control. Ralley Skill MAXED to keep damage down.
  • Healer 1: TT to heal the PW, the primary job.  Direct heal is better often than a group heal to avoid massive agro on the TT
  • Healer 2/Battery JS/TT/PP as secondary healer to keep the primary healer alive and the rest of the group.  Direct/Group heals as needed. JS offers massive reactor buffs.
  • Summoner/Battery: JD for obvious reasons, and can serve as a backup battery toon.
  • Jumper/Battery: JE, TS or PS can serve as a Jumper, PS has DPS to offer, JE can jump and loot, TS can Jump and Hull Repair

Second/Backup group can be similar but does not have to be as rigid, Often for Fishbowl you want a TE in every group but for the gate raid that is not necessary,

 

The basic template for raid oriented toons is simple.  What does the toon offer a group? Max it out....

 

To begin with I would suggest doing Mordana raids to get the group organization down and setup a protocol for how to run the raids.  They don't require triggers are very straight forward and offer some nice loot. Then move up to the Gate in Cooper and finally the Fishbowl.

 

The big three raids (Timed) will take some more effort to coordinate because of the random nature of the timers involved.  It is hard for the guilds to assemble enough people for them when the timers appear and they have it down to a science.  I can't imagine trying to get that going public, but it could be done if the player base was prepared for it and ready.

Edited by Liucee
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Useful /slash/ commands for raids....

 

 

/credit kill <player>  used to establish the looter.  This command must be used by each group leader once the group has been established.  If a member of the group disconnects, gates or is dropped/added to the group the command must be re-issued.

 

/loot add <player> used by the designated looter to allow access to the corpse of a boss to loot a non-trade item.  Also can be used if the corpses of a raid are locked out to the looter.  When that happens the group leader should target every corpse and perform the command on each one.  This can be done quickly in most cases to allow the looter to get all the corpses before they destroy.

 

/target <player> often used by healers and Jumpstarters in the massive and confusing groups.  This command is a bit buggy and the Devs need to look at this. Also there are hot keys within the client you can setup to do this.  F keys are often used.

 

/assist <player>  Used to select the target that is being attacked by <player> and can be used as a hot key using the custom-hotkey method or typed in.  If you are in group with the person you are supporting you can also click the target icon on their name in the group listing to the left. This command also appears to be buggy.  It may or may not work reliably... Another thing Devs need to look at.

 

/random X X X   This is used to do the lotto portion of the raid, to select who gets the loot.  Example >  /random 1 100  will put a random number from 1 to 100 in the BROADCAST channel for all to see it.  Group is /random 1 100 3, etc.  Whoever is doing the looting/lotto of a raid should be highly familiar with the command and the process of doing a lotto.  The big guilds often use a system to raffle the loot off... I'll make another post about that.

 

/delag 100 This command reduces lag and load on the video card greatly.  It causes the client to ignore many unimportant data like ship details on other ships (color decals etc).  Also reducing your graphics sliders under OPTIONS to about 1/2 level is a good idea.. it looks like crap but you will have far less lag and problems.

 

/trade <player> will open trade with the <player> designated.  When you are the looter and you are trying to give an item to someone quickly this is a life saver.

Edited by Liucee
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Thanks Liucee, thats very helpful!

I second wanting a TE in every group. BI was kind enough to let my PP tag along on one of their Mordanna raids last week (my first). The first time around we had a TE in the group and it was easy to keep everyone healed up, but he had to leave after. The second time, lacking Rally was noticeable, everyone took a lot more damage and I had more trouble keeping up with it.

Also, I like the idea of picking a day to do something every week. However, using the same day every week could exclude people. You might consider alternating days on a biweekly schedule. Also, choosing one weekday and one weekend-day might be nice too.
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Suggested Lotto Protocol for Public raids:

 

Lotto is the term for auctioning off the loot for a raid.  This allows everyone to have a chance to get the items they want from the raid in a fair way and gives people a reason for doing it...

It is suggested that every player that participates gets the option to bid on ONE trade capable item and ONE NON trade item.  This allows people to get a good chance to come away with something for their effort.

 

NON TRADE ITEMS get bid on first... During the raid and the last boss.

TRADE CAPABLE ITEMS after that... This allows everyone to get the main goodies out of the way and go about their business if they are not interested in the little bits...

COMPS/SAMPLES: I would consider this as a third category, allowing people who need them to bid exclusive of the other high value items.  Many guilds just distribute them among the raiders that needs them but in a public raid this may be more complex. 

 

A very trusted and designated person should be doing this... It is a big place for problems.

 

The looter should announce what items are on the corpse first.. Something like "Smiter's Fury, 110%" etc.. so everyone knows what the item is and what it's % is. 

 

If the item is reserved they should then /loot add <player> for the player that has reserved the item and have it removed immediately. 

 

Next it is offered for public lotto, this means DURING the raid, often these corpses have a 20-30 minute life span.. they need to be dealt with quickly...

 

Looter: "Smiter's Fury 120%"

Looter: ------------------- X UP

 

X up is  used to quickly set an order for the /random command... simply put an X into the channel and press enter.  If you are bidding for an ALT you should specify your alt like this:

 

Player 1: x

Player 2: x for my TT <name>  (this is so the looter knows what name to loot-add)

Player 3: x

Player 4: x for my TE <name>

 

Once the Xs stop coming.. then the looter confirms the count...

 

Looter: I see 4

Player ?: 4 confirmed

 

Looter: /random 1 4 1

Looter has generated a number between 1 and 4: 4 (The last number is the winner)

For public raids I would suggest using the x x 1 version so everyone can see it...

 

The looter should verify that the people bidding on the random were actual participants...

 

If no one bids on the item then it should be openly offered to ALTs first.. then in Broadcast and "Spaced"  You pull the item out of the hulk, clear target and warp leaving the item in space. Then the looter may target the item and offer it on General or Market channel for first-come first serve.

 

Trade capable items can be done after the raid... These are all of the items that were not reserved and can be traded... Always start with the most desired item first, this requires that the Looter is very familiar with the items and how high the demand is... For Example if there is a looted DG up for bids, that will be a hot item.. So you should consider lotto that first then move down to carapaces and then ammo comps and samples... Experience will dictate the order or suggestions from the raid leaders. 

 

The ideal looter will not be bidding in a raid.. nor will they possess any non-trade items from that raid, because they will need to space them...

 

In the event the looter is bidding it is best that someone that is NOT bidding run the /random command in order to remove any question as to validity.. There is a special character on a random that is not supported by the client, you should look for that character to ensure the random is valid.

 

Bids where there are only two bidders should use the "High/Low" method... One of the bidders picks high or low then a /random 1 100 is run.. if above 50 it is higher.  A simple /random 1 2 can often result in disputes.

 

Another note on Looters.....  Cloaking classes are very useful for this to avoid damage.. However any class can do it if they have the support of a JE with group cloak.  Also on Gate raids there is A LOT of ammo comps.. they are huge XP.. so a lower level TT/PP/JS can benefit greatly from looting one of these raids.  PRO TIP:  trade 1/2 stacks of bile comps at a time to maximize the XP.  If the lower level looter has a group cloak they can warp to corpses and stay out of agro... Having the JE attached also provides someone for the looter to trade off the comps and trash.

Edited by Liucee
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Thanks Liucee, thats very helpful!

I second wanting a TE in every group. BI was kind enough to let my PP tag along on one of their Mordanna raids last week (my first). The first time around we had a TE in the group and it was easy to keep everyone healed up, but he had to leave after. The second time, lacking Rally was noticeable, everyone took a lot more damage and I had more trouble keeping up with it.

Also, I like the idea of picking a day to do something every week. However, using the same day every week could exclude people. You might consider alternating days on a biweekly schedule. Also, choosing one weekday and one weekend-day might be nice too.

I agree, only having one day is exclusive to some people, however we need to START this somewhere... get the players on board in general and once it is moving add more days.. The nice thing about triggered and Mordana raids is they can be done any time... So yes.. more days as soon as we have a group of peeps that are up to speed.  Anyone can lead these as long as there are some basic ground rules and guidelines it isn't that hard.. They nearly organize themselves.

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