Turbo effect's

[Dreadnaught]

Hey everyone. First of all I would just like to say thanks to all the GM's and DEV's. You guys are all top notch and the best staff I have ever seen. And thanks for all the hard work that all you guys and gals do on this game during your spare time.

I seen some guides taking about turbo and all the stuff that stack's. I played during live when all you got was 1 equip and 1 activate. But they were saying that the Fury of the Master + Black Spitter + Plagues Bite all stacked!?!. I didn’t understand that cause the math alone doesn’t make sense. FotM (40%) + Black Spitter (40%) + Plagues Bite (20%), that’s 100% reduction in weapon delay. After talking to some guides that usually know what's going on I decided to conduct a test, so enough Blah Blah and on the results.

TEST SET UP

All testing was done a the L55 RD drones at the controller project

Timing was done with a stop watch starting when the round left the weapon and stopping when the next round left (To help with lag). and each set up was tested 10 shots for a more accurate average.

Test Date : 11-3-10

Weapon tested: Reaver / Delay 2.0

SET UP : Reaver only

Delay speed: 2.1

SET UP #1 : Plague Bite

Delay speed: 1.73

Turbo effect : 17.62%

SET UP #2 : FotM

Delay speed : 1.57

Turbo effect : 25.24%

SET UP #3 Black Spitter

Delay speed : 1.57

Turbo effect : 25.24%

SET UP #4 FotM + PB

Delay speed : 1.46

Turbo effect : 30.48%

SET UP #5 FotM + Black Spitter

Delay speed : 1.35

Turbo effect : 35.71%

SET UP #6 FotM + Black Spitter + Plagues Bite

Delay speed : 1.36

Turbo effect : 35.24%

So it looks like that the Plagues Bite doesn’t stack with the Spitter buff correctly.

SET UP #7 Spitter + Plauges Bite (To confirm)

Delay Speed : 1.57

Turbo effect : 25.24%

Dreadnaught

Edited November 4, 2010 by Dreadnaught

[Lot]

So it looks like that the Plagues Bite doesn’t stack with the Spitter buff correctly.

I see no setup with only Spitter and PB.

The maths for turbo may not be what you expect.

For example, in live 100% turbo would be half firing rate e.g. 10s reload became 5s reload.

No clue how it works here in the emulator although the old code that is in the public SVN repository suggests that 50% turbo equated to half firing rate. And that turbo was being capped at 50%. Clearly the old code, if I understood it, doesn't make sense because it makes it pretty useless to have more than one equipped 40% and one activated effect. Any extra turbo was redundant.

However your math does suggest the current code has changed and follows the formula for live.

Numbers for setup 5 are interesting -- not entirely sure what's going on there.

[fuulishone]

I see no setup with only Spitter and PB.

The maths for turbo may not be what you expect.

For example, in live 100% turbo would be half firing rate e.g. 10s reload became 5s reload.

No clue how it works here in the emulator although the old code that is in the public SVN repository suggests that 50% turbo equated to half firing rate. And that turbo was being capped at 50%. Clearly the old code, if I understood it, doesn't make sense because it makes it pretty useless to have more than one equipped 40% and one activated effect. Any extra turbo was redundant.

However your math does suggest the current code has changed and follows the formula for live.

Numbers for setup 5 are interesting -- not entirely sure what's going on there.

Part of the problem is manual time keeping. You're almost better off using a different approach... But finding a mob that you can sit there and shoot into for an extended period of time is hard. Additionally, using weapons that are already very fast puts you at risk of rounding errors.

Perhaps you could get use a much longer base reload time weapon for your tests and time the total time to empty a stack of ammo, or something similar. Lastly, with respect to the basing stuff on animations... You may also run afoul of network lag as the client doesn't go into the animation until it receives positive confirmation from the server. All this points to the need for extended testing to get good quality results.

Oh, one other thing. You may need to play with the order of buffs as well as varying buffs. Remember to log out and back in between each testing cycle to make sure there's no rogue buffs lying around. You may need an AotW, CVE or a JE w/ a Cyberadrenaline Rush to buff you and test various interactions of the percentages.

[Marlee]

Thank you dreadnaught for testing this.

I believe the code for turbo has been changed to the live method. Where 100% turbo makes your weapons reload twice as fast.

As you get more turbo your dps increases in a linear fashion. 40% turbo gives you 140% damage overall. (1.4x base dps) 80% turbo gives you 180 damage and 100% turbo gives you double damage. the reload time decreases in a logarithmic curve but the damage increase is linear.

(In the very beginning of live, as Lot pointed out, turbo was directly related to cutting the reload time itself by the amount so 100% turbo gave you infinite DPS since your reload time was essentially zero. The reload time decreases linearly but exponentially increases damage. If turbo worked this way, stacking turbo would exponentially increase your dps and is obviously overpowered.)

I have tried to do similar experiments with the hellbore missile launcher (reload 22.2s) and looking at the reload time after it fires. Unfortunately this rounds off to the nearest second.

Using 40% turbo (HB + wrath) reload is 15s

Using 80% turbo (HB + wrath + caster) reload is 12s (this is rounded off)

Using 100% turbo (HB + wrath + caster + PB) reload still appears as 12s (if this is this 11.1 rounded off I don't know)

So agreed we need testing over damaging a mob, possibly, or better yet a dev to confirm the actuall stacking effect.

[sunvillage]

First off, in live different activated turbo effects did stack. They don't here.

The formula for calculating Turbo was already changed in live, it was a big outrage among warriors, specially TE.

As was ponted out, 100% turbo means the weapon delay is halved (another way to put it, it's 100% more damage).

I don't get the formula together.. someone else will

I made a similar test with the Hellbore Launcher, the longest reload weapon I know of.

the difference after putting in the Black Caster and the Smiters Wrath were quite obvious.

Activating the Plagues Bite has a very small effect after the Turbo guns were installed.

As mentioned, the manual timing is not easy.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Shuzun

[Dreadnaught]

Part of the problem is manual time keeping. You're almost better off using a different approach... But finding a mob that you can sit there and shoot into for an extended period of time is hard. Additionally, using weapons that are already very fast puts you at risk of rounding errors.

I know Manual time keeping isn't 100% accurate. But that's why I took data from 10 timed shots and averaged them, and thats why I showed that with no buffs I tested the Reaver and got 2.1 sec. This is not the point of the test, it was to show that somethinig is not stacking and I found it.

And if Manual Time keeping is so bad how in the heck did I get the exact same RoF for SET UP #2, #3, #7?

Edited November 4, 2010 by Dreadnaught

[Lannister]

We have to make sure we get our terminology correct first. Turbo impacts reload time which then impacts DPS. While there may be a relationship between turbo and DPS the true impact of turbo is on reload.

So there are really two questions here, that perhaps the devs can help us with:

1. What is supposed to stack and what is not supposed to. Should multiple equiped stacks (i.e. Turbo ML + Turbo Weapons) stack and should activated (or multiple activated) stack as well.

2. What is the proper method for calculating turbo? If we can understand how it should work then we can easily make the formula ourselves.

[bolt212]

I don't know how it is here as I don't have a char high enough level to have any turbo gear. But in live, only one equip effect would stack and every activate effect of different % would stack. In live IIRC JD/PW/TE could get 104% turbo, 119%(I think) with help from a JE only Ancient artifact device.

In live there was

1 40% equip effect (usually a weapon) would stack

then there was

PB 20%

CVE 12%

The drop from the warder 7%

another device that I can't remember the name 5% (from Tada O gate I think)

skull shield 10%

JE only device 15%

I think i'm forgetting one but I can't remember.

[Phamine]

i dont know about much,.but i know my proto launcher has a 7.6 firing rate,with caster/smiters(40%) it drops to 5 sec...with caster/smiter and plague's activated(20%) it drops once more to 3 seconds.i've something else i can't recall atm that adds an equipped 5%,but no change in the 3 sec. is noticable.i didnt use a stop watch or anything,.just hovered over my launcher on the shortcut bar as it was firing...and this has been my 2 cents,.thank you for your consideration