Mattsacre

My point was "ammo" comps aren't exclusively "ammo" comps, some of what is considered only for ammo is in some rare recipes also for things other than ammo. For building ammo as you say, as long as it's superior output ammo it makes no difference, but in the case of that comp used in a non-ammo build, you want it @200% to boost the superior chances of the item you are building. Those times you would need to have comp at 200% and the vendor build trade idea wouldn't work in that instance, but would have to be self built.

I don't have a screenie, but I know the L135 ones that used to be in VT gave 12-15kish cr. ea for explore jobs, a person could take the 5 from there, hitch a ride from a JE to ABB and back and be able to tip them 50k each shuttle run without having to dig into their stash to pay for each trip.

There were the primus and endriago ones Old Live (tm) , not now however, there used to be lots of fast respawn centriata/sabine mobs in and around the gene repository, not any now. There are some centriata on primus L25+, not nearly the amount of Old Live (tm) though. To get sabine you have to go as far as Rag near dolor moon.   Jobbing would give faction, but would be a ludicrous amount of time to recover 4k rep, enough to allow them to get into station to then use suits and correct the other 2k or so rep.   The only two reasonable routes I see is either more faction mobs with a wide CL spread, or the class leaders accessable other than the faction owned stations (this would not make sense really for storyline). Of course you could drop faction reps into a neutral location (say F7/N7) and seperate the suit trades from the class leaders, then only if they screwed glenn or n7 faction would they be denigned suit route.   But consider something else for adding faction mobs types: Loot tables, factioned mobs could be tailored to have a more likely drop of class type loot, kill a PP faction mob and they have better chances of dropping PP/progen gear than say a nonsense Jenquia class/race gear. That has been a long time "bug" in start sectors, it makes no sense to have PS/JE/TS gear be mined from hulks of the others start sector, if the other class couldn't even get into that sector, how the heck would there be a "hulk" of that type to pull other races gear from? Same with other areas, there is a proponderence of jenquia/terran gear dropping from mobs that shouldn't be even able to use it. While renegade progen aren't of the 3 progen class anymore, they didn't suddenly become jenquia and start being able to use their gear. :)

The Problem: Today I was attempting to help another player recover their Sharim rep, they had gone too far killing RD and every RD kill gave them a Sharim hit as well. They had gone so far into red with Sharim that they couldn't dock the Sharim factioned stations, this precluded them accessing the class leader in that station and using the half eaten suit method to realign rep.   The natural enemy of Sharim is Collegia, so they correctly surmised that killing some Collegia would be a way to tip the scales back with Sharim..at least enough so they could dock and then use the suit method. So, attempting to find them some collegia to whack for the faction switch, ran us into a problem, there is a serious lack of Collegia to kill! The only ones I knew about were the 3x L35 in endriago sector, these had a reasonable respawn, but really, a L150 killing L35....it was going to be a hellacious time sink for them.   Querying other players got us no other real solutions, nobody could think of any sugnificant spawn spots either. Thus the post.   The solution: All the "original" classes had some spot, if not several spots, that players could kill mobs to adjust rep with. The Sharim weren't "original" but have had several spawns scattered about, most noteably in nishuan and castor. The Hyperia, off hand I can't think of sugnificant mobs, nor the Collegia either.   IMO there needs to be some factioned mobs of those two scattered about, like the "original" classes, so people that tip one way or other rep wise can make corrections. Ideally there should be low, medium and high level mobs so each level of player can use them. I would think that "home" sectors should have some "guarding" assets irregardless of were else they might pop up. Altair III and NV should definetly have some Collegia on guard duty, right now there isn't a single one. Proxima Centari should also have some Hyperia assets on guard.   High end there should be upper tier factioned mobs, so high level toons can kill them, the Grissom patrol and paladins in cygni61 are good examples of PW/TE factioned mobs, there need to be also some of all the other factions somewere.

Lol, reactionary..per my progen posts....sitting down and not participating in something isn't reactionary..it's the exact opposite in fact, ever heard of a peaceful protest.?..Ghandi won a country on it. He wasn't "reactionary" he was "nonparticipitory", thats what I suggested would be a viable option, if they couldn't handle the AI changes that were formerly good PW spots, the changes excluding PWs so to speak, then a nonparticipation might be an option for them. I would give the same advice to all the Jenny ranting and raving, if you can't adjust to the changes...don't, stage your own nonparticipation :)   Petulant...mmmm maybe, thats a eye of beholder thing I guess...I would say more, resentful..sort of kind of, but then not really....I was at that point rooting for the Pw and pointing out the problems, that the other JD weren't having to content with as badly, I too play Jenny and I root for them when there is actually something that needs it....IMO this isn't one of those times...the beam thing isn't a nerf but a addressed bug, long standing bug in fact.   Stanigs post, actually, he was factually incorrect. There was a slew of things in ST4 that happened to the progens, overwelmingly negative in progens view, most however were of the same nature as this jenquia beam thing is, something that had to give to allow game mechanics to work. However if you read into what he said that since ST4 to now nothing changed for PW....well that can be said  as partial truth, the PW itself wasn't altered (after ST4) but the PW's enviroment changed..the AI's were altered to the progens detriment.

That purple text hurts me eye holes! :wacko:   :)

I think I may have found the problem in your thinking. Tunnel vision.   You never play any other class/race so you don't know how "your" class' dynamics negatively or positively effect them. Because you have had it one way for so long, you feel that it should go forward that way forever. Devs are looking at the big picture and have explained why they must do what they are doing...not out of some maliciousness just to piss you and "your" race off, but something they must do for balance.   At this point anyone that can't accept that there was a problem, that they are addressing a long existing problem (wether you like their solution or not) and insists they put it back the way you have "always" had it in the past, (despite them explaining it's not a nerf but a long unaddressed bug) is now sounding like a petulent child.   As I've explained in other posts about how the Progen felt about "their" classes nerfs, they also, were all upset about the changes, the Devs had to weather their ire as well, but they calmly explained, just like now, that it was a big picture thing and it also had to change.   As someone who plays all 9 classes, sometimes things they do also pisses me off, but as I've learned in the past, there usually is a good reason for it, try soem other toons for a change, get a fresh perspective, perhaps you will see just why they are doing what is happening and not be so reactionary.   As in all things...this too shall pass.....

Kk so lets figure this out, for you to have it convenient for you....we:   Alter the client (not allowed), alter the N7 account vaulting functions (they work good now, do NOT F' them up), have each and every other player have to learn a new way to protect themselfs from "flubbing" up when building, run the risk of mistakes being made and loot comps used (some are RARE drops), generate GMtickets/petitions over loss of items, I'm sure I've forgotten something but that seems enough for the point being made.   To make a few players happy they have to: Do 1 thing not allowed (alter client), one thing REALLY time consuming (alter N7 account functions), start a education campaign on changes (show peeps they need to now move not only hold materials around but the vault as well, that sort key has HUGE consequences), run the risk of GM's ire over increased workload.   If...big IF they wanted to go to all that trouble, I would, as always adapt the way I did it, I could reorganize vault etc. But got to say I find it not likely they will, they have other problems to work over and that number 1 cardinal rule? CAN'T ALTER the CLIENT! that would be in play over this....   Good Luck though. it's not a rotten Idea, just a unlikely one.   P.S. rep drop because you don't like my ideas.....lol sooooo petty :)

I don't think they meant to say WITHOUT beam modifier :), but to everyone saying "modify the beam range of the protobeam thats the problem, not other things"....a base range of  a protobeam L9 is 3.5k. Most vendor beams L9 hover around 2kish range, several of the loot beams run around 2.8-3kish. Is the protobeams extra .5k the problem? No.   It's what is modifying the beam range being the problem and nerf it, or dmg drop off after 50% range, thats the choices when you boil it all down. What would you rather have? Being geared good and being able to tap a mob @ 8k if you so desire, (if thats your game style), and going with the lesser dmg luring in the mob...even having a range option that way.  With the 50% reduction that lets both play styles fly. Up close you get 100% dmg, gear for that OR gear for range knowing you get less out of it but get to kite. It's about choices, range with less dmg or close with max.   Got to tell you I like the idea of choices, I've geared both ways ST4 with my Jens. I would love to have the same type of choices on PL/ML, there are times I would give all my range, fight nose to nose if needed, to get a periodic 2x dps!   But sorry, there is no way in hell that getting to stealth strike @8k for full dmg x2 is any way balanced...something has to give. For our Jennies to have that, then we have to retool the ML/PL users to have vaster longer range or higher dps, mobs to have vaster longer ranges, vastly larger hulls/shields, larger thrust ratios, larger scan ranges etc. etc. Whats more likely and fair? Modify the Jens mechanics or EVERYTHING else?

True enough, I'm not so social I need it for myself :) and agree it would most probably be a bugfest. And is it something you want Devs taking limited resources/time to do when there are other problems going on? My posts were more of the academic nature, more of the "could it be done within clients limits" rather than the "should it be done". It's way down on my list in reality.

They (I presume) don't want to limit the amount of toons you can have, they like to multi also at times. But the whole multigate thing was a cool feature they thought up and implimented. However, as always, a few jerks had to take a good thing and turn it to shart. To stop rewarding them for that, they fixed it so unexplored area toons couldn't gate at same time, thus taking at least that extra ease of use from those same jerks.   Nothing previously made it impossible for someone to "exploit" explore xp farming from new toons, and in reality, how much is really going on via multiboxing? New toons are slow, they don't have the gear to go fast. So a newly created "disposable" xp farming toon isn't really exploited too much IMO (I might be wrong, I don't do it and without stats to the contrary I can only presume). So the hassle of multiboxing a group through the gates kind of discouraged them, while allowing those that aren't actually exploiting it to enjoy a new feature.   Your idea about limiting toon creation to X per day might stop that, but really: A. Can it be done without client altering? (WW/EA never had a timer on how often you could wipe/create a toon) is there structure there...a "timer" to check against toon creation to activate? B. Do they want to even bother doing so when there are other priorities..I.E. is there a sense of urgency to plug this loophole, is it's use agregious enough? C. Is it really being abused enough in truth stat wise to need a addressing?   If A,B,C are true, than yes it should be done, it's a good idea.   Think it through though, how slow are new toons? What hassle is it to explore slowly with the having to gate each one through sector gate and reform? Once you got the "disposable" toon leveled, farming for the group leader, is it really being disposed of, are they really tossing a L30 toon to start another group of 5x L1 to do it all over again even slower? I can mine for faster XP solo than go through all that hassle of multiboxing a explore group...why bother?   Just a thought...   P.S. I'm not endorcing multibox explore faming, nor explaining it away or trying to be an enabler of it, if you are one of those folks..you are a Scumbag.

WHAT?!? you want to actually get PAID to do a job? Filthy capitalist!!...What kind of attitude is that to have? You should work for simple goodwill from the job faction lister...right?   Joking aside, I sign this, a job should be a job.   You should get a wage for a task done for a employer, the faction gain should be a bonus factor for a job well done, Boss trusted you to do a job for them, you did it good, they like you more, you are a ever more trusted employee.

The point being, building from vault increases chances of "accidental usage of wrong quality of component", yes it takes whats in the first row of the vault if you did that, but what if you accidentally hot sort before you built, or misplaced the stack, or you had some 200 and some 100 and you put them in the wrong row...maybe you didnt know you had that lone 100 stack in there and built inferior from it instead of customers 200% etc etc.   Or on the other hand...what if you was saving that rare loot comp in your vault for someone else to learn recipe, you know how to build 200% comp X and start building for someone and after hitting the build key for the 240th time you slip up and hit it 241 times..what happens if you build from vault? You just used that rare loot comp you was saving.   Simply put, as in live there is no reason you shouldn't built TO vault, that don't cause problems (unless your customer disappears and you can't empty your vault :)).But to build FROM vault introduces a whole slew of potential headaches we don't need. Put what you want to build with in hold and build, if you are to lazy to do that, then you shouldn't be building :)

ReRead the discription. You are missing the part about OR adds improved warp pathing...that isn't adding nav skill to players, its making better nav bouy choices in some instance, i.e. giving shortcuts in some instances when the nav bouys area ctually closer, try it in AP or ABA and see with/without Additive warp is a seperate and distinct buff not dependant on nav skill. The part about adding to nav is another differing buff. Those without navigate skill are only using the "additive warp" buff part of the device.   This is like the buffs on Solar Sail 8. It has "reactor renewal" instead of "reactor recharge", even though the two are simular in effect (they add to your base recharge rate of your reactor) they are stackable equip buffs to get better buff since they are actually "different" buffs.  

There is a way to sort of do what you want..and  you don't have to mod client (i think). Just have old private chat channels function as of old, but rather than you have to manually tell them what the code is to get in, it sends them a auto generated prompt, via the "message" key at top that "your friend X is on private chat #23 and the code is Y". It's true that the first friend will have to start the private chat when they log on, but there after, people on the friends list get auto invites. As the old private system worked..when the first friend logs off or leaves chat (and they don't /command who is to own the private chat) then it devolves to the next longest in the chat as the new owner. If your friends list was extensive enough you could concieveably keep that private chat all day, as people log in and out and the chat is reassigned ownership.   I don't remember what the upper limit on the old private chat was, perhaps someone else can educate us on that, so that could be a problem if too many folks were hogging the privates with "friends" private. The olny real difference to the old and new "friends" private would be the auto invite via a code sent aand the stored list of friends it would pick up from. It of course would require a friends confirmation as stated in previous posts to get on any friends list, and be able to be deleted by either party if so desired.

You couldn't build from vault (and if you could, it would cause all kinds of problems, like how would you keep 200% comps seperated from 100% etc.). But it did let you build too vault, you had the desired comps in cargo hold, and when you exceeded hold space, what you were building spilled into vault, this was real handy when doing a mass ammo build.

Little flaw in your logic, why would a chavez drop, be something you turn in to chavez for faction? Wouldn't they be rewarding you for killing them?   As to the debris and junk turnins +1! , just have em 1 for 1 on the faction. 1x L1 debris = 1 faction, 1x L2 stuff =2 , 1x L6=6 etc. That won't overtip faction swings overnight, but would be a good way to plug away at faction, might I suggest that it isn't just faction however? Make it like the half digested suits, faction/xp/credits. That way noobs can still get some xp/credits out of the deal and not have to forgo credit reward to pip up faction.   This would have the added benefit of shutting up the CHERRYPICKER! SINNER! whiners. If debris got left behind, they can stop whining and mine it themselves for a nifty Bogrial rep.

I wonder, would I have to friend myself when I want to talk to the voices in my head via chat? :)

I guess you missed the analogy, "sniping from the sidelines" is something said when someone always complains about something with no constructive input. They "snipe" ideas. I was making a joke about Stanig saying fleson's posts were always negative and never constructive. Since the thread is Jenny all freaking about beam range.....I pointed out that he can't snipe now without someone knowing who he is....double meaning,   seeing him here and on mobs. Then i went on to point out that the Jen are now experiencing (with little sympathy) what the progen already went through, now they are getting little sympathy as well in kind.   ST4 I played my Jen that way, who wouldn't like to sit back totally out of range of a mob and kill it rapidly with no risk to yourself? Thats what a terran is suppost to do with ML, up till now the Jen have been able to as well, that oversight has been corrected, the Jen that got used to being able to fight at 100% to full beam range dislike that, SORRY you don't like that, I play Jen's too. But the fact is, we got the benefit of a unintented effect for several ST and now in Live, thye have finally got around to addressing that, sorry you don't like it, but it is as it should be.   I guess you misunderstood how it did work and is intended to work, let me enlighten you. fro 0-50% of your beam range it is a hard 100% dmg +/- skill/device modifiers. At 50%+ range it is a fall off of dmg STARTING at -50%. Old Live (tm) at max range it wasn't -50% dmg it was -66%! They have put it as live as possible, if they got it right you will see: 100%@ <= -1/2 range, 50%@ => +1/2 range, and somewere about 3/4 range 33% dmg. Got it?

But..but..he is doing what a JD/JE does...He is sniping from the side lines, shooting and then hiding.....this is about the beam nerf right? :) He wanted to snipe from long range and never be seen, now with the nerf we see him and his snipes and he don't like it....fix it now damn it now now now! :)   You know.....I remember when the PW got nerfed into the ground, I remember when the PP got nerfed into the ground, when the PW/PP groused about it, the Jenny players said (in effect, if not actually) "suck it up, you have it to good all the time anyway, it's about time we Jenny get a bone, not you, quit your crying." Well they were the benificiaries of those nerfs that progen got, they didn't get the "tweeks" the progen "enjoyed" at the time, the progen said back in effect, "wait until your turn comes, you are going to get a nerfle bat at some point, and you will get to "enjoy" the pain we do, as we are now."   Well some point is now, and your turn has come, are you "enjoying" it as the Progen did without your sympathy?   Just say'n.... :popcorn:

Well..the station that is Collegia based......would have missions for collegia I would think :) But me not being unnecessarily cryptic person of the likes of Bayhkee.....   Portia...Arx Emporos ,station lounge. She has 3 and 2 are repeatable. The other is a arc mission. NV has at least 1, portia sends you to them btw.   Zieg..Arx Magister , concourse. He has at least 1 Collegia and I think more, 1 of his is repeatable and at least another is mission arc.   The ones that they have announced in past forum/patch notes that come in at L50, L60 and L75? Those. They are the Collegia factioning missions. It's a real good bet any mission you take from someone on NV or Emporos will run  into some Collegia at some point if not all along.   Oh and yes Agrippa himself missions are Collegia rep too (duh) :)   If all else fails Terminal, as a PS you should be mining, you should run across L6  progen half digested space suits at some point. Trade those with Zieg on Arx Magister for a nifty boost to Collegia rep/xp/credits.   Trade the Gene maps you pull to gene repository to get Sabine/Centriata rep/xp, rather than the suits. Of course if you have an excess of suits or plenty of Collegia, you can trade them to Vinda for sabine, and the npc in tarsis for centriata rep/xp/credits.

Small problem with that, not a shoot down though. Some ammo comps are used in other things, not just ammo. Those comps being @200% would be real desirous when building to buff the terminal odds....npc for ores would be @ 100%, that could be a problem.

50% chance on anything is 50%, what happened before has no bearing on the next try. You can flip a coin 100 times and it's possible (nearly impossible though) to come up heads 100 times even with 50% odds. Flip a coin and it's 49.9999999 to be heads and  49.9999999 to be tails and .0000001 to be on edge, neither heads nor tails.   If it is 50% chance you could have been real unlucky, or lucky..you can succeed the next 10 times in a row.

It's flavor the dialog from the prisoners/diplomats , your mish don't update at QAR.

Have it just in proxima centari, free floating npc. A bogrial thats say "Boggie's Scrap and Salvage representitive" thats scrapping agent for bogrial. Have him be a huckster/used shipdealer type that "offers" to buy your ship for a great deal...and "let me get you into this little honey instead." Then settles for scrap/debris instead.