Gunney

How would you add a 5th week?   Split Genril and Scooter?    Instead of 2 weeks for pub, why not make the 5th week 'Open' but restrict the time for the raid, with 3 raids in the week the 1st could be done say noon-8, the second from 8-4 and the 3rd from 4-noon.  This way we can 'test the waters' on the community doing the raids and be available to almost everyone at one time during the week.

Appears my attempt to bring the community together for raids has only split it into more groups.  The "Invites" to fill slots mentioned above would no doubt go to 'select people'.  Also no one has said much about those who are in time zones that don't see raids due to low server pop in their time zone.  Do VGE/Static/BI  schedule their raids so that those players can join in? I know the public does not.   "Be careful what you ask for"   I herd this yet was not listening, All the posts have been directed on how to split up the raids, none on how everyone can work together on them

Removing Epic and SCC from the public group would severely drop the Raid able members of Public.  Public would then need to fill open slots via open invite on the server.  Mind you, I have NO PROBLEM with this (in fact its darn close to what I want to see happen), just  what I think would result  =)

()vertkill   I was looking to "stir the pot", but no idea on bad intentions, With the player base getting low I was thinking the population might be able to work together. There are a lot of people out there I have not raided with, gear is nice, but I believe I have at least one of all the 'major' items. "Control" of the raids, well at least  GoBB, RD, Troller, DT, FB & GR are not an issue. If I was out to break up a lock on raids/loot it would be Modi's Child, Warder, ect ect   those seem to be ista killed,  someone has a hold full of BoL's  why?  cant say

They just took the server offline, didn't catch the reason but my guess is content update  IE  snow blowers

Happy merry to all.....   Now back to assembling all the toys and deciphering the Chinese instructions ...... 

7 more days then .........

Phorlaug Not right off. You do get a key to the executive bathroom and your own coffee mug.   Hmmmm  Syber movin out and a coffee cup becomes available........ Ya better wash that thing, last I herd it was 6 months ago he let his wife wash it, darn squids and their superstitions....         It was my hope things would go smoothly, but it seems finger pointing is creeping its way in more and more. It would probably be best for a Mod to lock this thing up for awhile. Let everyone chew on the thoughts brought up and revisit the ideas at a later date.

Holyman  With regards a Public Spokesperson...   I'm not sure what the functional requirements of that role would be..?     The Public spokesman would fill the role of "guild leader" for discussions when an issue arises and would speak on behalf of the public group. As I recall there were 3 who accepted the role,  Syber, CIA(MIA) and Id have to check on the other

Guilds have an advantage if there was to be a poll,  they can rally members via "Message of the day" or their forums and vote that way. The 'Loose" group of non guilded or small guilds do not have that option

IMHO. a poll would be to darn inaccurate. The number of players who read the forums is what, 20% (wild guess)

Also, for all those that are not aware, Efi mentioned "Driver Carries No Cash" as being a Guild, this is not really true. All the toons in the 'Guild' are mine. 1 player, therefor I conceder it not to be a guild, just a tag to ID the toon as being me to other players.

Efialtis Lastly i gotta ask. What are the rules of public rotation raids regarding who can participate and loot distribution in addition to having toons in multiple 'raid competing' guilds. Can i have a toon in eg Sirius Cybernetic Corporation, Driver Carries no Cash, The Disciples of Ore and in VGE or Static or BI? Does that give me the opportunity to participate in all scheduled rotation raids and loot distribution? I know VGE, BI and Static have their own rules about that so what are the Publics rules on those? If Public rotation raids are open to everyone and Prrekoorb, Allura and Raiderman join one before the ranks are full, then a Public player shows up later what are the rules about that?     "Public Group" covers all those players that are "Not a member of VGE/BI/Static"    I dont think anyone without GM privileges and some time on their hands, could verify every player in "Public" doesnt have a toon in one or more of the other 3 guild.  We dont expect any of the 3 guilds to pull such a stunt, and if it was to be found out someone did such a thing the matter would be 'passed on to the leader of that guild. At least that is how Id hope it would be handled. If one of the "Other 3" guilds was to join, then a new "Public" player showed up, well then the Looter starts a group and we go from there. In "Public" raids as far as loot distribution goes, If you shoot you loot, if you loot you join in the lotto, if you sit and heal/buff/bring Syber coffee mid raid you join in the lotto, no matter who you are, where ya came from, what ya did, or how many items ya won in the past raids (ask Bull-AKA CLP Master)     This is one of the reasons I fail to see why so many people say the entire community cant work together on every raid. In all but 2 or 3 of the raids I have been to since Pub started doing them, there have been NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.  We get on TS, form up AND HAVE A GOOD TIME.   WHY IS THAT SO HARD FOR EVERYONE TO DO    ????????

I would still like to see everyone get along and play together,  perhaps in that mix replace the '2nd' public slot as OPEN so we can see how that goes, also if a guild has a no raid week, they should be the first to fill any open slots  "going by the example above"

Pest "I am not going to keep calling you all the big three because that gives the impression of a position of control and you don't have that. No guild is more important than another"     Then why do these 3 guilds have raids reserved for themselves to do at their leisure? Is it their size? Their Right? Or their inability to play well with others?   In a Poll I put up a week or so before this 'discussion', Flamingpanda posted a reply that is 180 from all the other replies and votes, I tried "politics" he went straight for the jugular.... https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/11532-how-do-you-feel-about-the-community-of-eb/#entry94917

Pest "Wow the comment to Cimbad was a bit harsh just because he was happy to produce a poll for everyone, overstepping the mark how?" Cimbad's words were "good input so far i will let the thread run till the weekend then i will set up a vote on the most common suggestions"     He took an administrative stance by setting a time for the discussion to end, at which time HE would put up a vote on the matter. If a poll were all that was needed I could of done that at the start. However all there would of been were votes.  Id rather see discussion and opinions, find out why people feel as they do and then see if something would come out of the mix.   I have no issues whatsoever on Cimbad's thoughts or opinions on the issue, I do however have an issue with him, or anyone, trying to end or direct the discussion providing the discussion is peaceful.   Pest Why are some of you scared to have a poll?   Polls are quick to answer and lack information

All a poll would do is end the discussion As Stoop said, you can look at the postings and tell how the 'votes' would go, and just how much of the server population reads the forums?   Cimbad, The Devs have made it plain that they will have nothing to do on this matter, it is a player matter, no need for the ADV to be involved. However as a player, your input on the matter is welcome.

Holyman This forum and most peoples' Chat Logs are replete with examples of what happens when one of "The Big Three" encroaches on the Raid Entitlement of one of the other "Big Three".   But what happens if any spontaneous Public Group, Multi-boxer, or non- "Big Three" Guild takes down a Raid that is currently allocated to one of the Triumvirate?     It is not and never was my intention to spur on a revolt to the current system.  Just tossin that out there  =)   To me it seems that in the past when a trigger was taken "Out of turn" there were some underlining past issues that were brought to the surface, or possibly those issues/arguments were the reason of the trigger being taken?   Alurra The issue I see with the 'change on a Saturday' thing is that the rotation was changed to a Monday to allow the raiders the weekend to get their collective butts together in the first place. Allowing for different time zones and such to collaborate over the weekend when most folks are off.  There were multiple complaints previously when the rotation ended mid weekend specifically for that reason. Going backward hardly seems like a good solution for going forward   Then what if it was done the other way, rotation slots are reserved for the weekend only, giving that guild/group the chance to schedule for their group.  Durring the week, when fewer people are in game leave it 'open' to all   The triggers will be watched, I seriously doubt any 1 person, or small group of people would be able to take a trigger without others knowing.   As Ive said before, when the trigger spawns for public, there is a 'call to arms' so to say, people show up form groups and HAVE A GOOD TIME. I fail to see why this method would "Fall into chaos" if it was to involve everyone on the server. Is there something about VGE  BI  or Static that cause issues???

Traderben Is there a council of some sort that discusses these things?   The leaders of  BI  VGE  and VGE  and I believe 2 from the Pub Group, meet when there is an issue, I do not think they would discuss any 'radical' changes that would alter their spot in a rotation.  Im asking for input from ALL players on the matter, not the select few.  As I stated above Im not looking to overthrow the system or cause issues, But if changes are due then I feel a discussion on it BEFORE things get heated or chaotic would be better.

Phorlaug The root of the issue (I know your going to hate this), Multi-boxing       Yes, it is possible for 1 or a few people to do the raids multiboxing, but do you really think they would? Or that they would have the chance? The 'Public Group' is a melting pot of many guilds, over the past few years we have not had an issue with multiboxing. No one/few players have taken the spawn and left the rest without. In fact, if someone is dual boxing and another person shows up, that player drops one and the new player steps in. *If* the community decided to drop the rotation, it would be like adding 3 guilds to the pot, Is one of the members of these 3 guilds the one who will do the multiboxing takeover?   Phorlaug Open raid bidding on the item you want is a great credit sink, If you know how and have the patients to pull it off.       Then the ones with the credits will control all the loot   Phorlaug Sure it is perfectly normal and expected for a guild to reserve 1 item from a raid they are sponsoring. just let everyone know ahead of time.        I like this   I have no issues with reserving an item for the guild whose week it is. however we would need to take another look at the guilds and their active members then adjust accordingly.   Cimbad good opionions im seeing here,thank you guys for keeping this topic mature...   I agree, thanks for keeping it a discussion

Murfree Another post here stated that the Public couldnt get enough players to Raid all the time, and I would beg to differ, that usually there are more than plenty that show up and more often than not, there is no multi boxing going on.  Maybe the looter is multi box or something, but for the most part, there is plenty of participation from multiple guilds.  There are some times, the second something spawns, later at night, that a few public people try to get a raid together and shout in General and in the end never raid until the next day, but that is not the Norm and could give the perception that the public still sucks at   The Public can do any raid out there, as long as it is between 6PM-9PM EST.  After that there arent enough Pub in game and the trigger sits untill 6PM the following day   Murfree I do agree with Syber, that timezone issue for some players is rough, but honestly, with any MMO, this issue will exist.  If you want to raid and roughly the raids happen at the same time of day, either make it or dont.

For the record,  I am not out to piss people off or throw things into an uproar. Most of those who replied I do not know in game, at least not by their posted name.   I get into raids when I can, once a week, twice a week sometimes, other times not for several weeks. There are those like Pest who may see a raid every 3-4 months. And there are those who are at every single flippin raid, over half the Public group fall into this   I know someone will say "That's something the Public group needs to work out". Well If that were possible perhaps. However when the Public group has 2-3 times the number of players with a raid able toon as each of "The Big 3" do, then perhaps restructuring of some sort is needed.

Holyman   "If it's a choice between an Order that is generally effective, understood and comprehended, however imperfect or anachronistic that Order is... Or Disorder. I'll take the imperfect Order any day of the week."     I agree with this, but that doesn't mean adjustments cant be made as dynamics change   "Maybe the idea of "The Big 3 Guilds" is a bit past it's sell-by date, because it's more like 15 or 20 guildies on-line max at any one time that is now the qualification for a "Big Guild"      Server Population has changed, and Static/VGE/BI, other guilds, and non guild populations have as well.  'Balance' would req sorting the numbers and coming up with a new plan. Time Zones are an issue as are players ability to play at reg times.  Only Devs have the info needed for this, and they have stated they will not partake in the situation.    Prre " opening up the spawns to a free for all WILL result in a select few taking all "    I do not want that, and it has come to my attention that the server isn't adult enough to "Play nice" together   " As i have said in the past this system works just fine"   It works, Yes,  through community pressure on those who dont follow the "rules" Just fine?    At the time the system was drawn up, Yes  100% agree.  Now, I do not.       Hobies "Well put Prre - I think you've said about all that I'd want to say at this point on the subject.."    At this point? Is there something your waiting for someone to bring up? Or something you dont want to mention and hope it doesnt get brought up?

"Be careful what you wish for."  I know this all to well, which is why I made the post looking for other perspectives   "who can get formed up first and get the raid done..."  Forgot about this one, and I do recall when BL would spawn several bosses in a secter that you couldnt get an invite to a group. The groups would be of a single guild or multiboxed.   "I don't think that the rotation is the issue, but a time zone issue."  I feel it is abit of both, If a spawn were to happen in the PST time zone, there really arent enough online in each of the 4 groups to pull it off. Now if it wasnt restricted by the rotation then the entire online population may be able to do it.   "Keep it as it is"     Its not a poll, Im not out to remove it, but I do feel there is room for improvement and Im looking for thoughts or Ideas from others

"Here we go again" Lets get that one out of the way first........   There are no current issues between groups or individuals going on that I am aware of, therefore they would not be a factor in a discussion. Things have changed since the rotation was put in place, the server is not as it was then The issue on the rotation has popped up several times, but it is never discussed. Its simply swept aside as a parent would dismiss a child when interrupting an 'Adult conversation'. I chose that comparison because that's how MANY of you act on matters of the game, that your opinions are what matters and others know nothing worth listening to.   "If you remove the rotation, the multiboxers will take all the spawns" This is just silly and a crappy reply to the issue. If multiboxers were an issue then the rotation would do nothing to stop them.   "You don't want it going back to the way it was before the rotation, BL almost shut it all down due to the fighting and bickering"  I agree at the time the rotation was a viable solution to the issue, But do you really think things are now as they were then? Do you really think there would be fighting? Id like to think that with a rough age average of over 50years old that wont happen, and the spawns are nothing new.   "Greed Plain and Simple Greed" OK  Sure Id like to do more raids, but there are two sides to the coin on this one. Currently, each week the Guild controls when their raid is done, yes Public does the same 7PMish EST like clockwork. By removing the rotation each group would loose their control on raids, and they don't want that to happen now do they   "Why don't you just use the Public Raid Sector" The PRS is open to all, never know when it will be opened up, the community has to work as a group to take down a raid, Awesome Idea!!  So why isn't this mentality applied to the other raids?   "Why don't you do the GR/FB?" Another 'Open to all' option,  are there any fights/issues/problems there?   PRS/GR/FB have tossed into rotation topics in the past as an option for those who oppose the rotation, if they are OK for everyone at any time why not ALL raids?   "The Big 3 held a meeting on the matter"  3 years ago you guys were the largest guilds, when was the last recount? of active players that is, not in game toons. And how many are members of several guilds? Now don't get your panties in a bunch, I understand ALL that the guild leaders have done for the game, it wouldn't be where it is without you guys and your efforts.   The server isn't where it was then, we are at an average of about 80 on per day, 120ish on weekends. The few times the PRS has opened up it has taken abit to gather enough to form a group. There are several on at hours 'other than the main server population' who haven't done many raids because the spawn has been taken down or their 'rotation group' isn't big enough, and there are those who rarely miss one, and  those whom the raids are at times put on hold for.       OK, there it is. I have opened "That Door" once again. Aside from those who will bash me or seek to have me banished for doing so, what are your thoughts on the rotation?