ryleyra

[quote name='Knix' timestamp='1314171433' post='45152'] Precisely, so only extreme capitalists would cry over having to sell those at a fixed price. I was referring to the rare expensive ores. [/quote] Oh, I see. I did think you were talking about the common ores. But then again, that's kind of the problem. Demand for ammo is high enough that as you say, it is constant at all times of the day. Demand for ship systems is sporadic, it only comes when someone WANTS the system, and wants to buy it, and then it's very unlikely that the appropriate miners to provide the ores will be online. So a builder has to either 1) buy the ores ahead of time, and store them away in his hold, 2) buy the ores ahead of time, build the components, and store THEM away in his hold, or 3) buy the components from the vendor. The third option is the only one that allows you to get the components you need at a moment's notice. On top of that, you have the same problem with systems that you have with ammo. You have only a limited amount of space in your hold, therefore in order to conserve that space as much as possible it is best to hold onto only what you absolutely NEED at a moment's notice. That is, the components which cannot be bought from the vendors. Components which can be bought from the vendors are not usually built from ores because that space is needed for those that are. (And BTW, this pretty much means that components are not ripped to build common components. They are ripped to build the components that can't be bought. So it's still the rare, expensive portion of the market) An auction house or similar interface would help because not only does it allow trade with a larger base of players, it also serves a storage function. The items are stored away until needed, and don't take up space for anyone. While the concept of a market should be that there should always be a request very soon after an item is put up for sale, meaning sales should be quick, the item can be held long enough that an item like a weapon or shield would get sold, even though that might take longer than ammo.

I found that mysterious ore vendor again. It's Gawain Modainas, in Adriel Mining Station, Adriel Prime, Proxima Centauri. He even says that he sells ores, but there is nothing listed in his vendor window. I have not yet checked if his buy price for ores is unusual, but I will probably check and see. I'm fairly certain he will not just sell ore like the vendor on live, but I am kind of curious about what he's doing there, since this is a new sector.

Actually, now that I think about it, I remembered ANOTHER suggestion from live. So-called "Super Asteroids" or "Epic Asteroids". The idea is that there is a special procedure to make an asteroid or hulk appear, perhaps like clearing the field. These would contain special loot that would be similar to making a given MOB appear. This would be random, but could spawn multiples of the special asteroid, so you could have folks group so they all get items. This would certainly qualify as endgame or even raid content, depending on how complicated the task was, and how widely the field was effected. I'm honestly not really sure how we can add special loot to Trade, but since special loot usually directly effects crafting, in that it consumes the loot, instead of gaining it, maybe it doesn't have to.

[quote name='Tyran' timestamp='1314136716' post='45122'] No need to patronize.[/quote] That was not meant to be patronizing. I was merely pointing out that credits, XP and faction are rewarded for Combat. It seems consistent for credits, XP and faction to be rewarded for Trade and Exploration, as well. (And AFAIK, neither award faction points as it stands) [quote]Items obtainable no other way, mission items thus, are a far greater incentive than XP (useless if maxed), faction (only RD faction really matters), and cash (unless you are given more cash than you may obtain per given time for combat, cash is a poor motivator). [/quote] Which is why I added the second part of my post. Yes, loot is an important reward from Combat, and it would be nice if it was awarded as a reward for Trade and Exploration as well. However, if these activities did not award XP, and only loot, it would be impossible to level. There is no need for YOU to be patronizing either. Yes, the endgame is important. However, not everyone is at the endgame, and everyone must level to get to the endgame. You want to ensure that there are sufficient rewards for both those who already have max XP, and those who are still levelling.

I honestly saw this in the Terminal, and didn't think about the capability of building Drones. I actually thought it was for some sort of equipment that was looted FROM Drones. I admit, I find this idea interesting, and if it is in the original documentation, I wonder what the idea is for it. However, having a skill defined and a location in the terminal is a far cry from having resources available. For one thing, most of the "Drones" in this game are as big as a player's ship, or at least no less than half the size. I can't see a whole "cloud" of drones circling around our ships in this game, like in EvE. For one thing, our ships all appear to be one man fighters, or at least no more than a couple of small decks, for one person to run on his own. The only way I can see this as not being imbalancing is if the Drones are restricted only to certain races and classes. It would be nice to buy a drone, and equip it for a given function, if you are not a JS, but it can't effect the strength of the existing ships too much. If it is to be placed in a device slot, then it should be no stronger than a device. That means in terms of firepower it would be a VERY weak drone. The JS might get some special drones (and the JE could do with some useful ones, too) but only to distinguish it from the TT and PP. I wonder, though, if it might be more interesting, and easier to implement, a Drone as a one-shot item which is held in your Cargo Hold. Thus, for instance, you might launch it to perform a special non-combat function, such as running a Trade Route. Or even, run out to a Nav Point and scan it, to earn some Explore XP. This might supplement the existing XP system, allowing to you earn a bit more at the higher levels. (Although this appears to be greatly improved over live) It could even be an actual combat drone, which would follow you for a time, but would either self-destruct after at time, or it would simply be lost when destroyed. (Or it would simply hang around where you dropped it, becomeing useless once you left it behind) This would be a finite resource for other classes, but the JS could build several and keep them in his hold for combat. Basically, a one use pet. The technology to support this in any detail might not be in the game, but it might just simply summon a friendly NPC, which just spawns in your area and stays there until it despawns. This could be how the "device" is used as well, but I think making them consumable, as well as allowing you to have a wide selection of different types in your hold, might make for an interesting playstyle for the JS. BTW, I think having the drone mine would be risky. Yes, the Jenquai are the specialists in Exploration, but having the same class able to mine ore and build components from it is, I'm pretty sure, a really bad idea. And yes, I know Traders can rip components, but this would be worse...

[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1314046915' post='45062'] What roaring noise? Sound needs a medium to travel, so engines in the vacuum of space would actually be silent from the point of view of someone not onboard the ship. At least in terms of sound. [/quote] I'm sorry, I thought it was obvious I was poking fun at Afterburn. And you are right about the shields, I forgot about that. Still, the Jenquai's weak shields are a racial trait that can be overcome with the use of Terran or Pirate shields, and the TS conversely can use Progen shields while the JE can't. So while there is one best case example of the JE having the same shields as the TS, in general the TS is designed to have stronger shielding. CERTAINLY the shields of a TS will never measure up to a PS. But then Power Down eliminates the advantage of stronger shields anyway. So it comes down to the TS getting away while still having the shielding to make its escape. Power Down isn't really a Cloak, it is more of an "avoidance" skill, for which the more likely Jenquai counterpart would be Fold Space. So in that light, I think Afterburn would be the TS version.

[quote name='Tyran' timestamp='1314082055' post='45094'] I don't really like rewards of cash, xp and faction, it's too job-like...[/quote] What are you rewarded for combat with? [quote]Would rather have non manuf items with unique buffs. Not sure what repeatable missions would give then, maybe consumable items. [/quote] Well, granted, it would be nice if Trade or Exploration gave you some sort of "drops" that you could then use. Then again, there is something like this with Mining, the Hulks give you the same sort of drops that combat does. Maybe Trade Runs could every now and then reward you with a "drop" of some kind? I personally had an idea for a concept for gaining Exploration XP. Sentinels have an item they can turn in for Explore XP, in Progen Gene Maps. You can even sell these to a Progen if you find them. Along the same likes, I thought it would be interesting if, along with the Jenquai Seeker, there were introduced stolen Jenquai Relics, (this is supposed to be the reason behind the founding of the Seekers, to reclaim relics stolen during the Gate Way) which could be turned in to a shrine in the Seeker home system. Unlike with Progen, ANY Jenquai could turn in these items, since they are supposed to specialize with Exploration, the way Terrans specialize in Trade and Progen in Combat. Other races could sell these items to the Jenquai, and maybe even get a bit of an Explore Bonus, like how you get a Trade Bonus for trading items with other players. This could be extended to things like alien artifacts, coded transmissions, and biological samples that would be valuable to researchers, spies, and scientists for all three races. (And of course the Progen Gene Maps) The Jenquai would just be "specialists" with this kind of XP. Another idea I had was for Explorers (and Jenquai) to do recon. They could go into a group of critters under cloak, (Sentinels and Scouts might have to either stand off a few clicks, or rush through them and endure some fire) and do a "scan", which would give them a data disk with a report on the strength of the foes. They could then be taken back to the starbase and sold. I think there was also a suggestion on live that Explorers could take the ores that they mine, and perhaps refine/craft them into some sort of accessories or ornamentation. The other players could then buy them, and fit them to their ships. (Or character, so they could be some sort of jewelry) It wouldn't do anything, but it would add more customization to the game, and give the Explorers more to do. There's also the Progen Construction project, it takes refined ores. In live anyway, I can see it there at Mars, but haven't checked it. I also know on live there was a Hyperion gate being built (to Proxima Centauri?) but as the Hyperian Explorers are now in game (as is Proxima Centauri) I doubt it's still around. I also noted there was something in Antares.

[quote name='Knix' timestamp='1314108335' post='45105'] Selling ores in as much demand as ammo ores should be no problem. With a healty population there should always be someone online willing to buy your ammo ores at a resonable price. [/quote] Not really. It honestly wasn't worth anyone's time to deal in inexpensive ores or components on the Market. As I said, usually you joined a guild for that.

[quote name='Tyran' timestamp='1314106174' post='45103'] Fixed prices mean little or no competition between miners is possible. Just look at how ammo ores fared during live, they were one of the few things that were done right. They could only be mined which meant they had a value decided by supply/demand and not a ceiling value decided by the vendor. And to think that the field clear bonus got added to counter cherry picking, while the real reason people cherrypicked was because most ores were worthless... This goes to show the wrong approach to fixing mining problems as field clear bonus still means I have a hold full of useless ores. [/quote] While an auction house is the best overall solution, a fixed price solution should be adequate for high volume, low cost ores which are commonly needed, such as ammo ores. The players then have the choice to ignore that system for the extremely rare, valuable ores, that are worth more than the fixed cost. The problem with the Ore Vendor implementation was that there was no way for the miners to know whether their ore was being used or not, so they would just sell valuable ores to the vendor. The idea of having a counter to show how much the vendor holds not only sets a cap for the vendor, but it also provides FEEDBACK. If a vendor has no supply of an ore, or even a very low supply of an ore, then that's a good indication that that is a rare ore which is more valuable than the fixed cost. The player can go to the Market channel to ask what the going rate is for that ore, or even buy up the small amount of ore on the vendor to drive the cost up. (This is a typical tactic in more complex auction systems) While there were rare ammo ores that brought a high value on live, as you say, the problem is those ores were RARE. That's what made them valuable. Common ores that could be ripped from components, or common components that could be bought from the vendors, were not traded in the Market. The Market was for rare ores used to make rare ammo, for dropped weapons, ammo that used unusual components not available from the vendors. NOBODY traded in ores for the common, low level weapons that could be bought from the vendor. Well, no one but the guilds. But they bypassed the Market... You point out the problem yourself. Everyone cherrypicked the high value ores that were worth millions on the Market, because the rest was worthless except to vendor. If ALL of those ores that had been mined and vendored had been put on the market for other players to use, there would have been PLENTY of supply for building components and ammo, without having to rip or even buy components. Now, honestly it sounds like Rolo's idea is more like an auction house, where you set your own price. This is actually the most common auction type, you put up your items for sale, and if someone is will to pay your price they buy it. If someone else offers the same item for less, you lose the sale. The only example I know of the inverse is City of Heroes, which allows a bidder to place a bid for an item. The seller can then fill that order if he is willing to take that (hidden) amount or less. If you guys think that system would work better, fine, but considering that there is likely more of a supply of ores than a demand for them (except for the rare ores as noted) IMO the seller should set the price. I will note, though, that it seems to me an auction house would be more difficult to implement. For one thing, ANY auction house system, whether buyer or seller based, must incorporate some system to transfer money to the seller while he is offline. The fixed price system allows the seller to get his money right away, as long as the vendor hasn't reached its cap, he gets his money, and the vendor is "reimbursed" later. You also don't have auctions hanging out on the system because the buyer/seller is being unreasonable with his bid. I can actually see a small, simple system being griefed by players placing lots of unreasonable bids in order to flood the system. Which is why an auction house also needs a sorting and filtering system. Rolo's idea handles the transfer of money by having the seller come back for his item or money. I would assume the seller would have a limit on the number of items he can "store", so he doesn't just flood the NPC with worthless junk. It could also be filtered by having different NPCs handle different items, as with the vendors. And the sort by price function is available. So it's very simple, but workable. Why exactly can't this be in a starbase? Just curious...

[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1314041285' post='45056'] The siggy lowering thing would be even nicer for the Terran Explorer. They are nearly as fragile as a JE, but can neither cloak or teleport the mob away like the JE, nor can they powerdown, menace, just smash a mob's face in like the PE. They have blazing speed, but need a little abilty to sneak around, since taking hits of any kind interrupts prospecting. [/quote] I wonder about that. They have Afterburn, but you'd think that would attract MORE attention, not less, with all that roaring noise. (Don't know if it increases signature or not) It does seem as if the Scouts are the weakest at the actual act of prospecting, though. (It would make sense if that's why they took so long to form as a faction, but I'm not sure if that's intended) The TE has some advantages the JE doesn't, though. For one thing, he can take out MOBs from a distance before even entering the field. Second, he DOES have good shields, and can get even better if he goes to a Progen. Plus, he's got HULL PATCH. That's got to be huge when it comes to surviving a MOB attack while mining. Finally, while the Progen is stuck plodding around the field on his slow engines, making a racket (he can go to a Terran for his engines, but will STILL make a racket) the Terran has the option to go with Jenquai engines. So the Terran has a choice that will lower his signature, OR he can go for speed and just dart in and duck out before he is spotted. The Progen can only lower his signature with either Power Down, or the Bogeril Solar Sails. (Which I used to use, myself )

[quote name='Mattsacre' timestamp='1314041015' post='45055'] I have to admit, I misremembered it, the pawn symbol is trade goods vendor..they are in every station and depending on your graphics card "green to yellow" or any shade between. You are correct that the ore vendor had a diamond shape () with cuts in it and was a more yellow than a trade goods vendor. [/quote] Actually, I THINK that the Ore Vendor really did have the pawn symbol. I remember posting to the forums that I thought that was weird when there was a perfectly good unused symbol. Can't remember what the gem symbol referred to, he had nothing for sale. (I suppose I should have checked what he would pay, maybe he buys refined gems) Remember the Construction Site at Mars? They bought refined ores, too. Good work for all those miners if you know about it.

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1275754344' post='17981'] Bolded that to draw attention to something. [/quote] Yeah, that was my thought. I keep reminding myself this is very old technology. If it worked a certain way, it was probably because it wasn't coded to work another way.

[quote name='rolo' timestamp='1314036862' post='45048'] Don't think we can implement this in a station but a roving npc might be able to be set up as a vendor. might then be able to prices store against it. rolo [/quote] At first thought, I was like, "Oo, that'll be a little out of the way", but then I thought this is actually more consistent with the way you might meet another player in space to do trading. You could even call the NPC "Middleman". Not sure what you meant, though, do you mean you would be able to store goods with the price you want to sell it for with that vendor? Then he lists what he has "stored" for buyers? Or that he would store an item for a static buy/sell price? Also, I didn't say this above, but without a "sliding" price system like I suggested, it might be best to set a maximum stack size. Like, say he'll hold 1000 of a particular ore before he is full. At that point, he won't take any more, so you have to vendor it. That'll encourage the miners to look for things he has more in demand instead.

I think I should note that as I was going through the Jenquai Seeker initial stages, I was told to gather some ore. This ore, I think, is going to be used to teach me to build components. (As I cannot) Note that as I cannot build components, I can't rip components for ore. So my ONLY choice is to get this ore from a miner. It's fairly common ore, and I won't have any trouble getting it, (I'm just using an alt to get it) but since the point of this thread is FORCING players to deal with other players for critical skills, then I feel that mission definately counts. Either you allow players to ask other players for fairly common items for advancement missions or you don't allow that. I honestly don't mind, I think it's a far cry from asking another player for a common, easily found component, and something they have to do optional content for. But then you've got to define what "easily found" means.

[quote name='Cobra' timestamp='1313941906' post='45003'] A short damage bonus like what Jenquai have with Combat Cloak would be something to consider. [/quote] I don't really think Progen need any sort of damage bonus. The Jenquai need a damage bonus because they have less weapon slots than Progen (both Warrior and Explorer) and considerably weaker shields. The Progen have the best offense in the game, even with their non-Warriors, and skills like Critical Targetting to give them damage boosts. That said, I think the idea of giving them a lower engine signature is an EXCELLENT idea. There are already a selection of skills, with the higher level ones adding shield and reactor recharge, but maybe one of the skills could be traded for a "partial power down", in which you have half speed and no shields, (or cuts shield recharge) but your signature is cut in half. It's not a cloak, but it'll help you slip around while mining.

Oh, also, while the Ore Vendor did have the pawn symbol, I remembered there was a Vendor which had a symbol, something like a gemstone, which COULD have been used as an Ore Vendor symbol. I even noticed it again a few days ago, so it's still in the game, but I forgot to make a note of where it was, and have forgotten. Maybe if I find it again I will edit this post. Also, while it should be an ADVANTAGE to buy from another player, I agree that the goal should always be to compensate for times when the game is broken. If the players cannot supply the demand, there should be an alternative. However, I believe that the burden is not on the players, but on the devs to ensure the resources are available. The players CAN provide enough resources to support trade, IF they can find them quickly enough. They should be able to MINE them quickly enough, you don't really need that many ores.

[quote name='Mattsacre' timestamp='1313873600' post='44975'] There were vendor kiosks in for a while, one in fenris and n7 if I remember right..think there was a few others. They looked like a yellow flag with a pawn symbol on it..the 3 balls on a chain symbol thing. [...] Players complained about them and they kept 2 of the kiosks, but they didnt buy/sell after that. The [...][/quote] Hm, wonder how I missed that. I remember on live there was a vendor in Jupiter that sold the level 1-3 ores. Maybe this was the same thing and I just missed the one in Fenris. At any rate, as you say it was a VERY controversial addition, and a lot of miners complained about it. And the ores cost 8.75 times the vendor buy price, so it wasn't like it was CHEAP. It just essentially dried up any interest in low level ores, and left the Market channel for high level rare ore trade. The problem IS that there is no Auction House. It was the problem on live, and it is the problem here. As you say, it is supply and demand, and the SUPPLY is limited because you are limited to the small supply of miners available at the time you are online. If you could buy from miners that have been on at any time during the day, then the supply would be higher, which would keep costs down. This would drive up demand, because it then becomes cheaper to buy ores from miners than to rip them from components. I like the idea of a Vendor that buys ore and keeps an inventory of it, which can then be sold to the crafters. I believe my suggestion on live was to have the Ore Vendor buy ore at some median price, perhaps 4.5 times the buy price, and a counter keeps track of how many there are at that price. Once they run out, the price can either jump back to 8.75, so builders can still buy even if the fields are broken, or for the high level ores they just cannot be bought at all. (Actually, now that I think about it, my idea was for the buy/sell price to scale based on how many ores were already in the vendor. So when there were thousands it would be cheaper to just sell to another vendor, but when there's only two you're getting like 8 to 10 times that. However, the static solution would be easier to implement) Unfortunately, this sticks the miners with a static price, and a very rare ore can obviously sell for more in the Market. The best solution would be an actual Auction House, where you can either post up a stack of ores for the price YOU want to charge for it, or conversely, set a buy order for a set of ores. (Like in City of Heroes, although that's also a controversial system) This Market can then be expanded to buy and sell components as well, allowing Traders to get their Components to the Warriors for use in crafting their ammo. This could VASTLY improve the trade of low level, common ores, as everyone needs ammo... (Heck, the ammo itself could be put on the market, although I think many players would still like to build their own just for the fun of it) The problem is, I'm not sure an Auction House can be supported with the game engine. It was often discussed on live, and never implemented. A compromise like the "increment a counter as ore/components are sold to the vendor" would be a compromise, but might still not be possible within the limitations of the game engine. Plus, some mechanism would need to be in place to preserve build quality for components, either that or discard component quality. (Which I think was how it was on live, but the devs intentionally added it here so that quality can be passed on down to the systems, and give an advantage over vendor components) Honestly, maybe a dev can come in this thread and post what MIGHT be possible. I would like to know. This was my biggest criticism of the game on live, and I'd like to know how many people would support an Auction System, even though it is likely to cut into the very highest level of trade.

[quote name='rabidcajun' timestamp='1313774113' post='44908'] you do not remember correctly [/quote] You know, not that I think about it, I may have originally assumed when I failed an analysis, I could not try again. But I don't remember ever NOT learning a recipe, so I'm guessing I eventually figured out that I could just try another copy of the same item. I guess the idea sort of stuck in the back of my head.

[quote name='Smallyoda' timestamp='1312800240' post='44261'] The only three things this game was missing that killed it were:[/quote] I will add two other things: 1) The Trade system only really progressed up to level 35, and then you were stuck running trade jobs, or continuing the Mk V runs for middling XP. On top of that, the static nature of the runs, making Somerled-Fenris the only viable option made trade boring, and overcrowded. 2) The Explore system only provided a finite amount of XP, which left four out of the six classes unable to earn Explore XP at all past 25 without grouping. The miner classes could Prospect, but this reduced the XP to the same middling levels as Trade past 35. I will also add on the subject of PvP that the ships were NOT balanced for one on one combat. Again, the Trade and Explore XP was SUPPOSED to be easier to earn for the non-combat classes, and thus their combat capablities were reduced relative to the Warriors. So while the Warrior classes were relatively balanced in regards to each other, (and the Sentinel could hold his own) all things equal the Progen Warrior would always win a fight, while the Jenquai Explorer pretty much never had any chance. I liked the arena, and thought it was a good attempt to balance the combat and non-combat capabilities of the classes, but as you say, it was not the faction PvP that the players wanted. That would have had to be balanced around groups, one on one PvP was simply not possible the way the system was designed. IMO, this is the real reason that the two Trader classes and one Explorer were not released on live, because these two issues made it difficult to level a Trader or Explorer. And it may still cause problems here where those classes have been released. Although I have seen some good posts about ways to revamp trade. (I suppose I could also add that on live, a faction war between the Progen and Jenquai would probably result in another slaughter like the Gate War. A Progen Warrior and Sentinel against a Defender and Explorer? Do you really think that would be an even fight? At least the Terrans would get the tank, which means they'd probably beat everybody else...)

While I can understand the frustration of losing a valuable looted item to an analysis gone bad, I have to say that I don't think there should be a 100% chance of success. Trader activities has little enough risk as it is, and the whole point is that you are making an investment in the hopes of eventual reward. If that investment is minor and you are guaranteed to immediately make it back, then you've pretty much taken all the challenge out of the "game". Plus, to me the chance of failure increases the diversity of Traders, and gives each a way to distinguish themselves from others. If every Trader in the game has exactly the same prints, then what is the point of searching around for a bargain? You might as well just give everyone all of the prints right off the bat when they learn the skill, then. Perhaps the solution is to raise the chance of success for looted items, since they are so valuable, but keep it where it is for vendor items. Of course, every builder knows the trick up upgrading an item, and then breaking it back down so someone else can analyze it. Personally, I feel the problem is not the difficulty of getting rare items, but the difficulty of trading them. Guilds really have the advantage there, because they can take a loot item that the person who found it has already analyzed and pass it on to someone else. Heck, IIRC back in live there was a chance that you could fail an analysis so badly you could never attempt that print again. I don't know if that's still the case.

[quote name='Illydar' timestamp='1312659038' post='44141'] PD has worked fine for me thus far. I've had no issues with it and it is functioning as described. Since the Sentinel is one of the few classes who's abilities all work I must question those who suddenly feel that we need to start tinkering with their abilities.[/quote] IIRC, on live Power Down did have a small chance to shed aggro. I remember a few times I would warp away from a foe, Power Down, and then sit and see if he stopped flashing yellow. If he didn't, I would power up, kick in free warp and put a bit more distance between us and power down again. Nine times out of ten this would shake off a guard I picked up while mining. (And I had Bogeril Solar Sails, so I had a very low signature for a Progen. I could usually slip back in once the guard lost interest) It only worked against single foes, though, it would never be useful in combat. And I don't know if that feature of the skill made it here. For all I know, losing aggro after a certain amount of time was a feature of all classes, not Power Down.

[quote name='Mattsacre' timestamp='1313601496' post='44848'] They never said how much or little this would blend, but told me I would love it and stay tuned. Of course we know EA dumped it all before that became a reality. [/quote] Personally, I liked the idea that the Jenquai could not use Progen technology, and vice versa, it gave a bit of variety to the classes. Otherwise, everyone would be running around with Progen shields, Jenquai reactors and Terran engines. (Not to mention Jenquai lasers, Progen projectiles and Terran missiles) The racial restrictions meant that a Jenquai and a Progen were different in more than just their skills. Yet, it wasn't so major that the Terrans had a huge advantage. (In fact, my TT often used Jenquai engines for the low signature) I suppose it's fortunate that we've progressed beyond that problem right out of the gate, here. No one class can do everything, but at least there are no holes like that. I will say that I THINK the Progen Only/non-Jenquai restricted reactors were added to live to fill that hole. But as AFAIK they were all high level reactors I wouldn't know.

On live, the Progen and Jenquai were restricted in that they could not use or build each other's equipment. (and that's true here AFAIK) This was supposedly due to their adversarial relationship in the war. Terrans, as the master Traders from the game, were able to use and build all races' equipment. On live there was often talk about dropping the race restriction on reactors, since the JE was the only class that could make them. But as stated, since there is a PT now we don't need that. On live, actually, my JE salvaged Pirate reactors so he could build them for the Progen who needed reactors. They couldn't use Jenquai, and Terran reactors were inferior to store bought Progen reactors. Also, I need to double check this, but isn't it true that NO Terran can build reactors, NO Jenquai can build shields, and no Progen can build engines? This wasn't as obvious live because we didn't have the two other Traders here, but I'm right about that limitation, aren't I? (My other thought is that the TE builds reactors for the Terrans)