Interpreting (and handling) Faction

[seekeronos]

Granted, faction is currently being worked on...

...and faction in Live had (or may have had) a different way of working for starting characters -

Going off of memory, as a starting character, the defaults for the three races in regard to each other were either green (from +500 to +7000) for most factions of the same race toward each other, and yellow (-500 to +500) for races that had rockier relations (compare Jenquai to Progen, for example).

Currently, a default character will start out with considerable negative faction (my TS has -1000 Shahadem, for example), which puts me well within the red.

And most incongruently, that same TS has -9000 faction with Red Dragon.

As I understand it, it would make sense that at a default, all new toons would start with -7000 Red Dragon faction; and if the TS were to be outstandingly different.... they'd more likely have the better starting faction with RD, since they are at particular enmity to the Chavez (since TS are aligned with Hyperia/GETCo)

If anything, TS should start out at -5000 RD (still negative, and still enough to get shot at by RD patrols.... but as GETCo affiliates with a connection to the Triads through House Orsini - they might have less of a trust hurdle to overcome with Shou Tzu or his other important RD cronies.

All that aside - let's look at one way of interpreting faction numbers that might be helpful.

-11,000 to -9,000 :

• MOBs con "red", and you are to them "kill on sight".
  
• If they have an extended scan range bonus, you'll stand out to them first...
  
• MOBs will be social-aggro (one aggros you, the whole heap of them within a certain range will go after you)
  
• Stations and planets controlled by that faction will not allow you to land or register; gate cannons will fire upon you if you stray too close.
  
• In the context of fame or infamy, you are infamous like Fleet Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku in the sights of that squadron of USAAF P-38 Lightnings over Papua New Guinea -- a marked man.
  

-5,000 to -8,999 :

• MOBs con "red", and you are to them "kill on sight".
  
• If they have an extended scan range bonus, there is a 50% chance you'll stand out to them first...
  
• MOBs will be social-aggro if "explicitly grouped" (one aggros you, his entire flight will come along too; however, they might not necessarily link with other flights of the same kind of MOB)
  
• Stations and planets controlled by that faction will not allow you to land or register; gate cannons will con red, but will not aggro/fire on you.
  
• In the context of fame or infamy, you are infamous enough to divert sector resources against you.
  

-1,000 to -4,999 :

• MOBs con "red", and you are to them "kill on sight".
  
• No special range bonus (beyond difference in MOB level to your CL)
  
• MOBs typically will aggro, but will not necessarily be social/linking aggro... although this might depend upon specific MOB type)
  
• Stations and planets controlled by that faction will allow you to land and register; however gates will not allow you to pass. Gate cannons will con red, but will not aggro/fire on you. Vendors will have an affect of -2 to Negotiate, and most NPCs will be rather rude if not outright hostile to you (except for active missions where the NPC is required to interact with you)
  
• In the context of fame or infamy, you are not especially infamous, but could be considered a "target of opportunity".
  

-500 to -999 :

• MOBs con "red", and may randomly attempt to engage you. Or they might not.
  
• MOB aggro will be based upon a random roll once it comes into range to "recognize you", i.e. when it would ordinarily turn to face you and start moving to you)
  
• Stations and planets controlled by that faction will allow you to land and register; gates will allow you to pass. Gate cannons will con yellow. Vendors will have an affect of -1 to Negotiate, and most NPCs will be somewhat curt or impolite to you (except for active missions where the NPC is required to interact with you)
  
• In the context of fame or infamy, you are just a minor irritant.
  

-499 to +499 :

• MOBs con "yellow", and will not become aggro unless you engage them.
  
• Stations and planets controlled by that faction will allow you to land and register; gates will allow you to pass. Gate cannons will con yellow. Vendors will be price neutral (no Negotiate debuff), and most NPCs will be somewhat reasonable to you (some might be a little more discourteous than others)
  
• In the context of fame or infamy, you are nobody particularly important one way or the other.
  

+500 to +2,999 :

• MOBs con "green", but will not typically engage monsters attacking you, unless the attacking MOB is of an opposing faction.
  
• Stations and planets controlled by that faction will allow you to land and register; gates will allow you to pass. Gate cannons will con green, and attack monsters that have aggro against you. Vendors will be price neutral (no Negotiate debuff), and most NPCs will be generally reasonable to you (some might be a little more friendly than others)
  
• In the context of fame or infamy, you are recognized as just another good citizen/faction member/ally.
  

+3,000 to +9,000 :

• MOBs con "green", but will engage monsters attacking you, especially if the attacking MOB is of an opposing faction.
  
• Stations and planets controlled by that faction will allow you to land and register; gates will allow you to pass. Gate cannons will con green, and attack monsters that have aggro against you. The station will grant an unseen Negotiate +1 buff to you (even if you aren't a Trader or a Terran) when dealing with vendors, and most NPCs will be generally very friendly to you (some might be willing to grant you exceptionally higher-reward missions)
  
• In the context of fame or infamy, you enjoy a certain popularity - your name is well spoken of.
  

+9,000 to +11,000 :

• MOBs con "green", and will have a good chance of joining you in a fight against MOBs within a certain range of their spawn point.
  
• Stations and planets controlled by that faction will allow you to land and register; gates will allow you to pass. Gate cannons will con green, and attack monsters that have aggro against you. The station will grant an unseen Negotiate +2 buff to you (even if you aren't a Trader or a Terran) when dealing with vendors, and most NPCs will be rather deferential to you, treating you like a VIP (some might be willing to grant you exceptionally higher-reward missions, to include a use-once-per-quest "Summon Wingman" device that allows you to spawn 1-2 factioned NPCs to fight along side you in a remote sector).
  
• In the context of fame or infamy, you are a hero - and are treated like a rock star.
  

[Terrell [BT]]

I actually like this idea, even if we're not going to have the band of -1999 to +1999 as neutral. In Live RD required you to be green (+2000 or better) to use their gates, but at neutral you could mine around the gate in Inverness, without being attacked by the RD guarding the gate. There were other mobs there too, that were less in number that would attack as well as the RD. I think they were from the bio-ripper family of mobs. I forget their exact level but they were lower than the Bio-Extractors.

[Blondine]

hmm, to much complicated, to many ranges.

red is red no matter what points you have between -2000 and -11000

yellow was between -1999 and +1999 that was a good range. Not killing 20 mobs and back to red

green is green no matter what points between +2000 and +11000

There are no other color stages, so why confusing with more stages in between the same color?

[seekeronos]

hmm, to much complicated, to many ranges.

red is red no matter what points you have between -2000 and -11000

yellow was between -1999 and +1999 that was a good range. Not killing 20 mobs and back to red

green is green no matter what points between +2000 and +11000

There are no other color stages, so why confusing with more stages in between the same color?

Now I'd say that this is the K.I.S.S. ("Keep It Simple, Sam!") way of doing things.

And the -1999 to +1999 band for yellow seems to be closer to what I remember for being in Live. It might explain why my PW at -1500 Sha'ha'dem faction gets aggro from the "Jenquai Day Care Shuttle" in one of the Asteroid Belts. In Live, that mob would be yellow.

Also, the Shinwa Guard in ABB that lurks near the west accelerator pad loves to try to munching on my PW when he was at -502 Shinwa faction and he conned red. Luckily, I did a few missions at Ketsugo outpost in Yokan to bring my Shinwa faction up to 0.6, and he doesn't try to eat my PW anymore.

The only reason I built in so many different ranges was to accommodate the DEVs' new vision of a -499 to +499 "neutral" or "yellow" band.

As for flexible aggro (the negative aggro -500 to -999) where the MOB rolls for a chance to aggro -

-this could also be used to explain why my TS, when skirting to close to a Chavez camp, will ALWAYS draw aggro, but is often ignored by RDs (unless they are more than 10 levels above me, which usually draws aggro regardless). Please note that in both cases, I was using on my travel build, with the high-sig fast Terran engine mounted (~6.8km sig/9.5km scan)

Here's the challenge: We all know that anything in Live is the Gospel™ and screenshots from Live are especially golden. So, IF you have any screenshots from the Live Era showing the neutral/yellow band from -1999 to +1999, by all means, do bring them to a DEV's attention.

Otherwise, I'll stand by my case for creating a more diversified and group of faction bands.

After all, shouldn't grinding faction to +10,000 ore more not have palpable rewards (such as that +2 Negotiate buff regardless of not being a Terran or a Trader) ... and high negative faction also be as much of a hindrance?

Give us a *reason* to grind trash mobs for faction beyond the bare minimum needed to get gate access.

Otherwise, I applaud the narrow -499 to +499 neutral band for reducing the grind just for gate access.

[seekeronos]

If the DEVs decide to revert to the -1999 to 1999 band for neutrality, then a simpler, more balanced version of this follows:

-11,000 to -8,000 :

• MOBs con "red", and you are to them "kill on sight".
  
• If they have an extended scan range bonus, you'll stand out to them first...
  
• MOBs will be social-aggro (one aggros you, the whole heap of them within a certain range will go after you)
  
• Gates will not allow you to pass. Gate cannons will con red, and aggro/fire on you.
  
• Stations and planets controlled by that faction will not allow you to land or register.
  
• In the context of fame or infamy, you are infamous like Fleet Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku in the sights of that squadron of USAAF P-38 Lightnings over Papua New Guinea -- a marked man.
  

-2,000 to -7,999 :

• MOBs con "red", and you are to them "kill on sight".
  
• No special range bonus (beyond difference in MOB level to your CL)
  
• MOBs typically will aggro, but will not necessarily be social/linking aggro... although this might depend upon specific MOB type)
  
• Gates will not allow you to pass. Gate cannons will con red, and aggro/fire on you.
  
• Stations and planets controlled by that faction will allow you to land and register; upon landing, you receive a debuff effect of -1 to Negotiate, (in other words, Vendors will price gouge you even if you are a Trader or a Terran) and most NPCs will be rather rude if not outright hostile to you (except for active missions where the NPC is required to interact with you)
  
• In the context of fame or infamy, you are not especially infamous, but could be considered a "target of opportunity" by MOBs of that faction.
  

EDIT - Sectors controlled by negative factions need not always have a factioned gate/gate cannon - this would be in place for game play reasons. For example, the various gates into BBW would almost always be red to the average player with default RD faction; but for a PW entering Jupiter with a -2100 JE faction, the gates should be green, the gate cannons yellow, and Jove's Fury showing up red - landable, but with negotiate debuff. The PW player would probably have to dodge any guardian MOBs flying about.

-1999 to +1999 :

• MOBs con "yellow", and will not become aggro unless you engage them.
  
• Gates will not allow you to pass, but cannons will con yellow (non-aggro).
  
• Stations and planets controlled by that faction will allow you to land and register. Vendors will be price neutral (no Negotiate debuff), and most NPCs will be somewhat reasonable to you (some might be a little more discourteous than others)
  
• In the context of fame or infamy, you are nobody particularly important one way or the other.
  

+2000 to +7,999 :

• MOBs con "green", and will generally ignore you unless in the presence of an enemy-factioned mob.
  
• Gates will allow you to pass. Gate cannons will con green.
  
• Stations and planets controlled by that faction will allow you to land and register; Vendors will be price neutral (no Negotiate debuff/no +buffs), and most NPCs will be generally reasonable to you (some might be a little more friendly than others)
  
• In the context of fame or infamy, you are recognized as just another good citizen/faction member/ally. Perhaps on the higher end of this scale, you are even well spoken of...
  

+8,000 to +11,000 :

• MOBs con "green", and will have a very good chance of joining you in a fight against enemy MOBs within a certain range of their spawn point.
  
• Stations and planets controlled by that faction will allow you to land and register; the station will grant an unseen Negotiate +1 buff to you (even if you aren't a Trader or a Terran) when dealing with vendors, (in other words, you get an automatic discount) and most NPCs will be rather deferential to you, treating you like a VIP
  
• Undocking from a station might give one random buff depending upon who owns the station - Jenquai stations might grant a scan, reactor recharge, or lowered signature buffs; Progen stations might grant a shield recharge or a +shield cap or turbo weapons buff; Terran stations and other factions might grant Warp or combat speed+ buffs, or a random rally effect.
  
• Some NPCs might be willing to grant you exceptionally higher-reward missions, to include a use-once-per-quest "Summon Wingman" device that allows you to spawn 1-2 factioned NPCs to fight along side you in a remote sector).
  
• In the context of fame or infamy, you are a hero to that faction - and are treated like a rock star.
  

[Tenkaris]

the only thing that pops into my head here are terrans maxing their RD faction and then farming drones and using the extra negotiate to make billions of credits

but that's not to say I don't like the ideas, I actually really do think they sound nice.

I also feel faction gain/loss should have more options. There should be missions that scale in difficulty and reward, and I also feel higher level mobs should effect faction more so than lower level mobs of the same faction. If it doesn't matter whether you're shooting a L5 or a L45 Chavez, you get +-2 faction no matter the level, then everyone just farms the low ones for hours, potentially pissing off newbies.

Ideally, players should have the option to do missions and mobs that are suitable challenges for their character's level, and the rewards should reflect this as well.

[seekeronos]

I also feel faction gain/loss should have more options. There should be missions that scale in difficulty and reward, and I also feel higher level mobs should effect faction more so than lower level mobs of the same faction. If it doesn't matter whether you're shooting a L5 or a L45 Chavez, you get +-2 faction no matter the level, then everyone just farms the low ones for hours, potentially pissing off newbies.

Ideally, players should have the option to do missions and mobs that are suitable challenges for their character's level, and the rewards should reflect this as well.

Definitely. Killing high level Chavez MOBs such as "Miguel Chavez at Nagato Maru", or the L45+ Chavez near the "Secret Chav HQ" in Paramis should definitely carry more faction per kill.

[garblesoup]

Definitely. Killing high level Chavez MOBs such as "Miguel Chavez at Nagato Maru", or the L45+ Chavez near the "Secret Chav HQ" in Paramis should definitely carry more faction per kill.

Agreed. Never made sense that killing CL10 mobs had same faction impact as killing CL30's.

[syphon2020]

Agreed Faction gain should scale with MOB level.