alurra
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Posts posted by alurra
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Jamoos & GetOffMe,
I was not there, however, I have heard that there were some of the public players that were not in that channel, and excluded from the loot rolls. I understand you said it was stated in TS, but what if not all of your players were in TS to know where they were to be looking or what channel to be joining?
I will not pass judgement nor call names or point fingers because I was not there. I only know what I have heard through the 'grapevine' about how some of the public raiders felt left out and excluded. If this was the case, then the responsibilities to ensure that everyone was indeed included for all parts of the raid fell upon the raid leaders.
If you get called out on this you can shoot the messenger, but what would be the point? Why not work harder to ensure it doesn't happen again. Errors occur every day of the year. If you fail to recognize an error and you don't learn from it then it will continue to be a thorn in your side. It happened, someone spoke about it, learn from it, don't repeat it and move on.
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I warmed you what would happen if you gave the big 3 guilds the game on a platter .
LOL
I'm proud I left when I did.
The end game content which is essentially raids and the big bosses the big 3 have complete control of. So unless you join them you either mine all the time kill stuff build or hope the big 3 allow you join one of there raids if they feel you are worthy, You can't retain a growing player base when you give control to certain individuals who should not have it, It serves to cause irritation and people just leave .
What are you talking about? Since when does the publics weekly raid have anything to do with the Big 3?
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It appears that more often than not, that Epic must include the 'public' and members from other guilds in order to have enough to complete the raid. That would in fact put them into the public slotting, which is right where they are now.
I would however agree that rolling for loot in a public raid in a private channel that doesn't include ALL of the raiders present is a really bad way to win friends and help from the public for these raids in the future.
I know if I were John Q. Public and this had happened on a raid I participated in, I would certainly endeavor to ensure that it did not happen again.
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*falls out of her chair* Quebecois? Oh have mercy on us all, eh? ;) *runs off the grab her toque*
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When was the last time you read that log? I suggest you read it again because ole Roland escaped your cargo hold as soon as you gated into Inverness.
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There is a public week in the rotation where the same shot is given to those not in the big guilds have an opportunity to raid. Take advantage of that opportunity. This week the public is working on the RD Base.
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Don't forget that tomorrow is Party Day. If you wish to be included, please remember to get your ammo and necessary gear ready. Would also be very helpful if you can at least log into the net7 ts server and listen in to the raid leaders so you are aware of what is going on. More helpful yet if you have a mic and can respond if needed, however it is not mandatory.
Hope to see ya'll there!
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Last time I had this particular issue, it was due to my av blocking it. Try turning off your antivirus and see if that resolves it for you.
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Don't forget to build your ammo. The day draws near!
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Such an eloquent post and really helps the situation.I look back through this thread.. I see Static making accusations, founded or not... BI and EG people trying to defend themselves... I guess I am just not interested in all of that... I want to solve problems.. but as long as the Big 3 continue to use the public raids to sling mud at eachother there is no way we can get ahead of that... You, Allura and the Rest of static seem to have little faith in my ability to do anything about these issues.. so I will formally stand down from any participation in these raid discussions, raid issues and the raids themselves.... You can ALL burn in hell as far as I am concerned... your petty bickering has me at my limits.. (By ALL I mean, BI, Static, EG, All of you... )
I tried to approach this situation from a neutral standpoint.Nobody called your abilities to question, but I do now question your ability to maintain a level head. -
Too many conclusions are drawn on partial information. Generalizations formed on too specific of instances... All this does is breed mistrust, anxiety and resentment. This is why I ask for it to stop on the forums.... The only thing this serves is to continue animosity at this point..
Daath, that is part of the problem here. There are very specific instances that cause concern to not only large guilded players but those who are not in guilds or in smaller guilds. Because you have not seen or participated in events such as I described does not negate the fact that they happen.
Where would you propose that these issues are discussed? Should they be held privately so that nobody from the general public knows what is going on? The only animosity I see is from anyone who feels they are being 'attacked'. If you feel like you are being attacked, ask yourself this? Are you indeed guilty of the types of behavior being talked about? If you are not, then why the animosity. This is solely a discussion on how to keep the public raids what they were intended to be, public.
The point again is to keep the public aware of what is going on. I don't think many will respond in game for fear of being singled out for voicing an opinion. This medium provides at the least, some modicum of identity protection as not all of us choose to use our in game names as our forum names. Many folks on the forums understand what it is like to be singled out for not agreeing. We all have seen and felt this.
Anxiety, mistrust and resentment are all outcomes of misinformation. Misinformation has been the root cause of many many heated debates on these forums. Would it not be more proactive to disseminate information about what is going on so that behaviors that are causing issues for even a handful of people can be handled and dealt with rather than keeping it all hush hush and hoping nobody notices and it goes away? There does not have to be name calling and finger pointing to get the issues solved. I am not asking for a 'naughty' list to be posted here.
You already jumped to the conclusion that only Static cares because those are the only opinions you have read so far on this thread. I would disagree with that statement and say perhaps there are only a handful of Static that is willing to take the chance that they will also be singled out as 'troublemakers' or 'dissidents' or 'malcontents that can't keep the peace'. Maybe it is because nobody actually cares, or maybe it is because they are fearful to bring their issues to the front because they don't wish to be singled out or labeled because they vocalize?
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I think the entire point of this thread was this:
The week was left for the public to raid.
An example would be this:
I am a member of the public and I wish to participate in said raid. I am told , sorry we have enough of your particular type of player in this raid, if you have another toon, then you can come. Then I look and I see that there are members participating from one of the big 3 guilds that are of my race/class or there are members there who are mulitboxing for the raid and one of them is my race/class. Why were they not asked to leave the raid and for me to be able to fill that slot? I am a member of the public, shouldn't I be able to get a slot on that merit alone? Well, next time a public raid is announced, I'll not waste my time responding as it appears they already have it figured out who is and is not really the 'public'. **end example**
I don't think this is about babysitting any said raids but more of ensuring that it is not turning into another week for ANY of the big 3 guilds that already have a rotation slot. There have indeed been times when the public has been turned away from a slot based on the very situation outlined above. That, in my opinion, is not fair for the ones turned away.
@Jamoos, as for your statement about being part of 4 guilds and which one are you actually a member of, I would think only you know that answer, but for myself, I classify you as a member of Builders Inc. Why? Because you have the opportunity to raid with that guild on their weeks rotation where someone that does not belong to Builders Inc would not have that opportunity.
I agree that having the Big 3 to assist in getting to know the ropes is essential to successful completion. It is also my contention that EG does indeed know how to complete these raids without assistance, as per their own statements, so why would any of the other large guilds need to be involved for tactics and learning curve? To say, we need 1 or 2 more players to finish fleshing out this raid for successful completion is one thing, but to flesh out the entire raid with just a few folks mulitboxing is not giving fair access to those that this week was intended to target. Just some food for thought.
This in no way should reflect upon Static as a whole, for each of us are individuals and are entitled to our own opinions and ideas on how the 'world' works. These views are my personal ones and how I view our 'world' through my eyes, regardless of my guild affiliations.
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Before downtime, Daath. Static moved to Troller at 12 EST. The changeovers are at 12 pm EST on Saturdays UNLESS there is a server restart, in which case the changeover takes places on server restart.
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I think the OP stated it was a public raid, hence it should NOT have been any of the big 3, yes?
Why would you even point a finger at Static for a public raiding issue?
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They are just too stinkin cute!! :wub:
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Example - applicant to Corp claims to be from London or LA but IP suggests they are in the Ukraine. Gank.
Except now someone is using a VPN to 'hide' their actual location... oh, I know, GANK, right? *shaking my head*
That is the exact reason I always despised EVE but to each his own I suppose *shrugs*
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If I could interject in your thread Daath, and explain how Static 'divides' the loot from the raids, it may or may not help your public raids to go along more smoothly?
There need to be certain toons for certain raids, that can equip certain gear and debuffs and such as necessary for successful completion. A single looter is designated by all the teams and given the 'credit kill'. The looter should use TS or at the very least chat to inform others what was taken from the corpse. This usually only applies to what is labeled at "uber loot" as there is plenty of 'junk' also included and to announce it all would take up tremendous amounts of time not to mention 'block' the raid leaders commands.
At the outset, if a person brings along a toon that is needed for completion of the raid they usually state they will be rolling for another of their toons. IE: I bring my TT for the healing, however I wish to gain access to a PL for my PW. I will state at the beginning of the raid "If such and such drops, I would like to reserve the right to roll for that item for my PW" . That way it removes sources of confusion later on as the 'arguements' tend to be negated by the statements and agreement before raiding begins. As you stated Daath, it is imperative that your 'alt' be located in sector for easy retrieval so said item does not 'pop' in the corpse.
With each uber item that drops, you are allowed to bid, if your class can in fact use it. It is generally bad form for a PW to roll for a non trade/non anny beam.(unless in a free roll**see below) However those Jenquais present might wish to roll if they don't already own it, or someone might have declared at the beginning of the raid they are in deed rolling for their Jenq from their PW. (see statement above)
Once an uber item has been won, that person can no longer 'roll' to win uber items from the raid, as they have already gotten something, give some others a chance as well. This rule applies ONLY if the items do not go to 'free roll'
What is free roll? Free roll is that point where everyone at the raid already has all the items and no longer need it, so nobody rolls on it because nobody wants to use their regular roll in case something else comes along. IE: I don't want to roll on that PL because the beam might still drop and I want the beam. If the item is then declared a free roll, everyone present may roll and regardless of the outcome, the winner is not excluded from using their 'standard' roll if they still have not won an item.
The reason Static runs the raids in this manner is to ensure that most, if not all of the people attending do in fact get something for their time and effort.
The reason that Static has stated that their guild base, if participating in a public raid should not roll on the 'uber' items is because they have many many chances to receive said items, and it would be unfair to those in the public raids if they were to have 2x the chances to win said item, THAT is why we discourage our members from rolling on raid loot at public raids. Our player base does know the rules we have set forth and the leadership has strong faith that each of our members will follow through and comport themselves with dignity and honor.
That is how we at Static deal with our raids, at least those are the basics. I likely have forgotten something of importance, so I reserve the right to adjust it if brought to my attention! LOL
*** I would like to note that I have no idea on the rules set forth by the leadership of either BI or VGE regarding their players during public raids, so please don't apply the rules of Static to those guilds. Get clarification from their leadership on how their players are expected to comport themselves.
Generally speaking, it is imperative that a raid leader be established before the raid begins. How that is determined should probably be based on the person with the most experience and knowledge of what each team will need and what is going to happen during each raid. IE: knows the spawns, knows the debuffs, knows their enemy. Each member of the raid should follow the leaders directions without question, even if they don't agree to achieve cohesion during the raid and less confusion about where to go and what to fire upon. The rules of the raid should be set out to begin with such that each member of the raiding party knows what is expected of them and how they should behave. This will help to minimize the fighting and bickering later on. The rules should be consistent for all involved across each raid. These are just general ideas on how you can help to make your raid week more productive and fun and to minimize the drama that might revolve around hurt feelings.
Public raiders shouldn't ever be turned away. If all they have is a JE, then maybe someone running 'alts' can drop their JE and bring another toon. It is only fair that everyone in the public be included within reason. Static members attending public raids only bring those toons required to help 'flesh' out the raiding teams to achieve maximum results, and as such will drop any extra toons they have to make room for a public raider that wishes to join.
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The GoBB that I am referring to was the open raid Sunday where the Devs spawn it over and over. GoBB was back up just a few hours after he was taken down by VGE and he did not require the Waking Nightmare to trigger. VGE was aware of it and made no objections to us taking it down. The Devs have been making extra spawning on Sundays.
The RD base raid that we formed started to kill the SDX when we were notified that the other group could not get in the area due to faction. Now with another server reset, who knows when we will get another shot at it.
SDX spawns every +-48* hours. Static tried to host a public raid today, however due to time constraints and little turn out, it was put on hold. We will try again tomorrow at roughly 2:30 to 3:00 PM EST, so if you are interested, be ready to go.
***Edited for more accurate spawn times****
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Daath, I would love to give you a response that states that 'All is well', however I have no idea myself.
The only thing that I can speak for is that Static has agreed to a SKIP starting tomorrow at either server reset or 12PM EST whichever comes first. I guess we will all find out the intentions of the other two guilds the following week?
Anyway, hope everything goes well for everyone involved. You guys get ready and go show that RD Base what for!
Good luck and fly safe all!
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Daath, I applaud your efforts to at least gain an understanding of the 'politics' behind how the big guilds run, however, I don't think you will find the answers you are looking for here.
If you go back and read what we had originally planned, it was to open a Public week and assist to ensure folks had the knowledge they needed to successfully complete them. That original idea was [b]exactly[/b] as you have just described above and it was not received well.
Good luck, fly safe.
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I think this entire discussion is way off and has absolutely no bearing what so ever on anything pertinent to the original topic. Daath, you should not exclude yourself based on anyones opinions other than your own.
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A new rotation schedule has been finalized by Static.
Static –Troller /skip/Rd Base/GoBB
BI - GoBB /Troller /Skip/Rd Base
VGE - Rd Base/GoBB/troller/Skip
Pubs - Skip /Rd Base/GoBB/trollerWe have sent this to the leadership of BI and VGE. So they are aware of where we stand. We do not know if they agree or disagree, however, this is the rotation that Static will follow with our SKIP week beginning this Saturday either with server reset or at 12pm EST as is the rotation change custom.Please understand that we did not give a slot to any guild or group, we simply walked away from the stress and unwanted/unwarranted aggravations that this entire situation has caused. Whomever decides to raid in our off week is of no concern to us, HOWEVER, Static members are asked to not attend those public week raids.
Thanks for reading and fly safe everyone.
*EDIT*** To avoid any confusion, the PUBS raids begin at the RD Base on this Saturday 11/30.
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Rotation negotiations to date.
The offer tabled by Static was this:
The fourth week rotation slot would be a PUG (pick up group/public raid) rotation slot. This was offered on the basis of Epic Gamers stated desires to not only have the week, but be able to include the public in their rotation week if they wanted. They specifically stated they don’t always have manpower to do the raids and wished to include other guilds/public raiders to fill out their raids to ensure completion. Because of this statement, not only Static but other members of the rotation guilds believed this to be the best course of action to not only get Epic into the raiding, but also to get the public raiding and used to working together.
The rules were to be as follows:
Members from Static, VGE and BI would send officers/raiders to get these raiders into proper groups and give them the basic rundown of what happens with each raid and each wave. They would then loot for the raiders and conduct the loot lottery and ensure that the loot was fairly dispersed to the winners.
There are certain rules of etiquette to be followed during raids and raiders will be filled in on those rules upon arrival. The membership of Static, VGE and BI would NOT be eligible to roll for any loot lottery as they all have their own guild weeks in which to get gear.
Any groups with empty slots that needed to be filled can/will be filled by available raid leaders but loot is still restricted to only non members of the ‘Big 3’.
These terms were agreed upon by all of the Static membership, and it was thought the other guilds also agreed upon this.
Static had learned there were still questions from the other guilds involved and in the interest of fairness while the negotiations were still being worked out Static offered to Co-Op all of our raids with Epic Gamers.
Static and Epic Gamers leadership both agreed to this working Co-Op with neither guild doing the raids without the membership from the other guild included in these raids.
VGE has also since made an agreement with Epic Gamers to Co-Op their raids until a resolution is met.
As some of you may, or may not be aware. The server had been having issues with stability so the raids had been essentially put on hold because of non spawning triggers and so forth. This was something that effected the entire rotation and no raids were being completed because of this.
The questions were put forth to the Devs to see if this issue could be resolved or if the raids were broken in general. Alurra, from Static received word that the triggers in BBW and Paramis were indeed up and waiting for raiders on 11/23 at roughly 8am EST. When membership went to check on these at approximately 10am EST neither of these ‘triggers’ were present, which presented a few problems as well as questions. It was unknown if the triggers were having issues as discussions with the other guilds showed that nobody had been raiding.
Messages and tickets were generated to ask the Devs to look into this to try and get some clarity of what was going on, but before any of those issues could be addressed, this appeared in the Market Chat channel.
[attachment=2784:Goo_Sceenie-112313.png] (open for a larger readable version)
Canman, from Static, went to the Net7 teamspeak server to ask Magoo what that statement actually meant, and was answered with a rather profanity laced response that I shall not repeat here. It was quite clear that Magoo did not care at that point what happened in negotiations as he was determined to undermine and make Static out to be the devil no matter what we tried to accomplish.
Static has knowledge of Magoo repeatedly trying to undermine us and giving out half truths to suit his personal agenda as he stated himself in the above screenshot . When Static agreed to the current rotation our intentions were honest and integrity was maintained. That is a trait that is valuable to Static and we feel it should be valuable to ALL of the guilds involved in a rotation agreement. We do not question the honesty and integrity of VGE. We have many more questions now regarding the rest.
The only reason these things are being brought to light here and now are simple. The membership of Static has stood rather stoically and taken the abuse from members of other guilds and general membership of the server when it was not warranted nor called for. We have done things that we are not proud of, but then so have we all. We have been working diligently to solve the questions for Epic Gamers and get something together that is suitable for all, however it appears that no matter what Static does and says, there is going to be at least one guild leader in this rotation that is going to try and undermine everything. If we cannot trust ALL of the guilds involved in the rotation to be fair and equitable and not childish, petty and vindictive it is going to make this entire process that much harder to accomplish than it should be.
Once a decision has been made on how Static wishes to proceed we will update this thread accordingly. Static membership will not engage others in a childish name calling, mud slinging internet fight. We are all adults, or so it is assumed let us behave as such.
To the membership of Builders Inc. Static does not hold you responsible for your leaders words or actions.-
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check your av software or firewall to make sure it is not being blocked. sometimes, they block it wihtout generating a message to let you know they are indeed doing that.
in Raid Discussion Area
Posted
*tries to suppress a giggle and fails miserably*
I'm still stuck trying to figure out what the heck he's even bumbling on about. I guess there is a valid point in reading the thread you are replying to before opening your mouth though.