[Ground Combat/Starbase Combat]

Definitely not Star Trek Online, haha.

That game is horrendous!

Edit:

So, I've been told to go play eve, and now star trek online, haha. I'm starting to wonder why this is called a suggestions thread! If you don't like the idea, can't you tell me more than just "STO did it" or "Eve" , so we can be more constructive?

[Ground Combat/Starbase Combat]

Well, this is a pretty big suggestion that I doubt anyone will be able to answer instantly.

Combat is all about the stars. Basically, if you land on a planet base/star base, you're there to trade or pick up missions. Your avatar doesn't really serve much of a purpose beyond that.

What I got to thinking was... What if you could land, and your character can actually fight?

I'm talking about actually landing in say, an infected star base or some kind of place on a planet (perhaps make areas that look like land? As if you're not actually in a base, but free?) and monsters roam about.

This would be a pretty heavy modification, but it wouldn't be anything you don't already do while in space. If you looped the "No way" animation where the character sticks his hand out, you could easily edit in a gun, or something similar, and beam weapons/missile weapons already have all the required animations.

Basically, missions would revolve around problems you can't just fight while in a starship. This would be a pretty crazy thing to experiment with, but I think the idea could really go over well if things were able to look "good", and not just tacked together.

What do you guys think?

Would you like the idea of entering a pirate Starbase, and hiding around corners, shooting down enemies on foot?

This idea would really mix up combat and give people a lot more to do that isn't just like, kiting and fighting the same space monsters forever.

Perhaps if this idea is too complex, something else could be done with your character/avatar that involves more than buying and selling items?

I have no idea of the technical ramifications of this, because it seems like it would just copying over the Starship controls to your avatar, aka, you have a personal shield generator, a health bar, and weapons and abilities on the ground.

Edit:

Back in live, I always had the idea that Earth and Beyond could be about two entirely separate areas of play, play on the ground, and play in the stars. Such as an inventory for your starship, and an inventory for your character, the inventory for your character would be complete with guns and armor and whatnot. And that you could go off in space and do whatever you wanted, then land on a planet and go off and enter cities and fight monsters, etc.

I realize that fantasy will probably never come to fruition, but something similar could, maybe? It seems like an idea a lot of people would go for!

[Inter-racial classes]

I'll take a Progen Defender

Or even cooler, a Jenquai Warrior

[Player vs Player and Graphical Update]

Okay. You don't have to yell at me, man...

If anyone here played MCO (another awesome game that EA cancelled after a couple years and decided not to share the server code after sunset), there were class races which you could only bring a car of a certain class and the classes were determined by a horsepower to weight ratio. I would think a similar arena system could be done here where you don't necessarily battle against someone of a similar level, but possibly a similar DPS, or some formula that involves all the factors of shield/hull/DPS etc.

Yeah! I remember Motor City Online! I liked it, but it was a game I only really got into when I learned it was being canceled. I mean, I played it before I knew about the cancellation, but the cancellation made me really want to play it. EA kills all cool games.

I really think they didnt release the source code to keep any attempt at a MMO Racing Game off the market (Now we have Need For Speed: World... Looks an awful lot like MCO Updated...)

I don't really remember the system that matched the cars, but I do remember really powerful cars getting matched to weak ones sometimes for weird reasons. And yeah, I really like the matching idea of similar engine components, etc. rather than similar level.

Perhaps...

Open PvP...

Except you can only attack people of similar level or starship components unless they flag themselves if they're lower than you.

[Player vs Player and Graphical Update]

Really I don't mean to sound like that. In fact I was not responding to you on this post at all. Maybe it's you that feels "The world revolves around me", to attack me for my post??. You seem a bit confrontational with your posts.

In fact go re read your posts. I only expressed my opinion, it differs from yours, so I am attacking you. Ok hows this..

Yipppeeee PvP me want it!!!! It's great, want to get me some lv 10 miner and gank him til he quits.. or wait at a gate and blast him before his loading screen lets him into the game. Yahoooo that sounds great. If you took the time to read my other posts I have offered suggestions on PvP, I have played games with it, and I don't care for it. Deal with it or don't. But me being truthful and saying that if this server goes open friggin PvP I am gone. I already said that if it is something that does not affect my game play then fine, you all can go bash yourselves silly.

:/ Personally I kind of feel as if the last part of your post was frustration and annoyance...

That's not really constructive at all, especially to say "Friggin pvp" and whatnot.

Even if you weren't talking to me, you were still saying the same "Lots of people would quit" as you had said before. We all know you'll quit. It's been established.

Do you have any ideas for PvP actually working out?

[Player vs Player and Graphical Update]

Like PvP or not, I think that the Devs have already started working on it. If it comes sooner rather than later, I'm sure I will pull up and move on. I think the other server has committed to being as EnB was at sunset. If this is true I'm thinking that I may move my game play time and allegiance, and support (donations) to their efforts. We have a choice now. The choice we have may be why there have been no Devs weighing in on this conversation. I still don’t understand why every game that comes along HAS to have some form of PvP in it? And seriously if it’s PvP you want there are tons of other games that have it, I won’t tell anyone to leave this game, but hey go get your PvP fix and come on back.

Oh, and with only 300 players (with alts) are there really enough players to do any real faction type of PvP? And of those 300 players (with alts) how many even want PvP?

Everytime you post I feel like it's some kind of personal attack...

You're going to continue to rate me bad for this, but whatever. I feel like all of your opinions are "The world revolves around me".

If you're going to keep threatening to quit over PvP, don't bother posting because I made this thread to discuss relative ideas for PvP and grand schemes.

So far, everyone is doing an amazing job posting fantastic ideas that are really indepth and seem exactly like what EnB needs to be successful in both PvE and PvP. But you keep coming back harping with the "I'll just move on"

Go ahead then. Everyone else, even Jarod, has constructive ideas for how PvP can work. That's all this thread was intended for.

Dev's don't want to weigh in because PvP is a very sensitive issue, and it's not one that should be answered with a simple "No PvP at all, or I'm leaving" like you keep giving.

[Player vs Player and Graphical Update]

Still doesn't change the fact that other servers do indeed exist, contrary to your initial claim . . . and subsequent labeling of said posting as "stupid". The polite thing to do would be to apologize . . . as long as we are discussing civility.

I apologize, I'm not sure I had my head quite wrapped around the entire conversation from you to begin with though.

So if the proposal for Player vs Player is far too daunting, or even entirely unwanted (class balancing), I guess the PvP'ers will just have to make do with Arena?

From the sounds of it, though, Earth and Beyond has been and always will be a cooperative game.

Just as a side note though, if open PvP were to occur... And you played a weaker combat class, wouldn't that be the point?

Like... Say you chose a Terran Trader, and end up getting ganked by a Progen Warrior. Technically, what's wrong with that? (aside from it being annoying/griefing) You chose a weaker combat class on purpose. The main goals of a Terran Trader would be to use his speed and get out of there! Not try to stand toe to toe with a Warrior.

Whereas an Enforcer or (maybe a defender) could back you up?

I guess what I'm saying is, if PvP was implemented, who says they'd balance the classes? Each one is good for a different area of gameplay PvE wise, if PvP came around, you'd still have the same strengths and weaknesses, you'd just have more threat leaving star bases, etc.

Edit:

This gave me an idea, probably a really goofy laughable one, but what about on the ground fighting? Loop animations, add guns in the hands of the characters, etc... Perhaps infected starbases that you have to land in and walk around and kill monsters in?

[Player vs Player and Graphical Update]

Well I don't care how "ridiculous" you think it is it's true; calling it "stupid" is hardly in keeping with your earlier lament about the lack of civility. Really, if you are going to say somebody is wrong and then call their statement stupid it would be worth your while to do a little research first - there's this new tool called "Google" . . . I hear it's quite popular with all the kids on the intertubes . . .

The lack of civility there showed how blatantly obtuse the idea of joining another "Earth and Beyond" private server is for PvP.

I wouldn't think of it, nor do I care enough. I hope no one else here would go to another poorly designed private server with no community, either. It seems... Counter-intuitive, as this argument was for this private server, not another, to put it simply. To better THIS server, not some other knock offs.

[Player vs Player and Graphical Update]

Wrong...

I know of another public server up and running and I have the complete server code and the db (someplace) from Aug. of last year. So Avani saying "make a PvP server" is spot on. It could be done, with a bit of work. If all is wanted is PvP I'd think content is really not what is of interest so this code would most likely fit the PvP crowds perfectly.

Thanks for the bold "Wrong"

If you have the source code and your own server can be done, why are you here? Also, if I am wrong, can you kindly link me to the other currently active Earth and Beyond emulators?

[Player vs Player and Graphical Update]

well if your not willing to listen to other peoples opinions you might want to take that into consideration before posting your own? and i dont think anyone is upset or irritated... just posting their opinions... and just like I wont tell you what type of game you like... seems like you might be exercising a "sense of entitlement" on your views of our opinions

I haven't actually shown I don't listen to other people? In fact I've only been responding to other people. Not sure what you mean by saying I have a sense of entitlement? I don't even want PvP and was making suggestions.

[Player vs Player and Graphical Update]

3. Keep in mind the code is open source so anyone that wants pvp bad enough can start there own server (see 2 above)

I agree with Jarod this game is not on the market and a labor of love, so we have no need to compete with anyone, so that is not a factor here... even updating graphics to me is not a factor cuz it holds nostalgia value to me... and in agreement with some of the previous posters here, I will cast my vote as well... any kind of open non-consentual pvp and I am gone too... not a threat, there is no need for it to be... I would just go play a different game... its about choice...

Two things with this.

While you may think you're being intelligent and "firm" in your standing about EnB, the above tidbits of your post tell me two things.

The first thing is ridiculous. No one else is making an EnB private server, and no one else would certainly make anything remotely close to whats been done here, so that's stupid in my opinion to list that as a feasible option. PvP isn't important to me. I was simply talking about it in an EnB perspective.

The second is, you aren't a real big fan of the game if you'd be high and dry if some ships were able to attack.

I hate to take that stance, but honestly, it's JUST PvP. To me, it seems as normal as any game and in EnB it wouldn't be much different, it would simply add more appeal to other gamers, but apparently the core fanbase of 2-300 people "despises" PvP. That's fine. I don't care either way. It's not personal for me. But I will say again, just because some fellow ships have the capability to attack you, if thats enough to make you quit, fine by me. You can pretty much revoke any idea that you're dedicated or devoted to EnB no matter what.

But this game isn't "on the market" - it's a labor of love to restore a favorite game of many while fixing the flaws and delivering on many of the original storylines - and developing some of new ones. Comparing an effort like this, done by volunteers on their own (unpaid) time with equipment purchased via a donation system to other games "on the market" being developed by and funded by for-profit companies is hardly a valid comparison.

You want PvP, fine - you aren't the only one that has expressed that desire. There's also a pretty good sized group that don't want it (I'm in that camp). This is hardly a new discussion but I guess with the previous threads on this being lost when the old discussion board went kaput we will now generate some new ones. I predict they will follow about the same pattern and end in the same manner.

But, as they say, Discuss!

What I see in a few posts is a pretty big sense of self entitlement that I'm wondering about.

Nowhere in my original post did I say "I want PvP"... Yet most responses take the topic in a direction that makes it either personal, or insulting. "I'll quit" or "This idea is stupid".

That's fine. Say what you will, but generating discussion on this is important, and to be honest, EnB is such a good game and will garner a lot more support than a few people who claim to outright abandon the game due to some ships being able to attack them.

Also, about EnB not being "on the market", it isn't. But if we can ever hope to achieve noticeable standpoint, or some kind of true stance for EnB, what do you propose happens? I don't care if the game stays at 200 people forever... However, it is one big empty galaxy out there, and I'd love to see more players.

So, I guess I'll stop responding then, as I seem to have only irritated people about this, and you have to know I sincerely apologize. I didn't mean to cause any waves with anyone. EnB is a really closed in project with a lot of dedicated fans sitting behind it... Or so I thought, until I started hearing things like "I'll quit" over trivial issues, that's all.

Also, as a followup, saying "I don't want the graphics changed" is like a win lose situation.

[Player vs Player and Graphical Update]

The issues behind PvP are as follows, from what it appears...

1) Lack of class balance (that's a good thing, I enjoy it myself) since classes are supposed to work together in EnB, class balance never mattered.

2) Untold grief possibility.

3) EnB was designed from the ground up as a PvE game.

I suppose arenas will do. But if the original player base really wanted PvP... Let's take a look at how many of that original playerbase that wanted PvP and protested enough to get arenas is still around now. How many are still here?

*crickets*

So that may say something in and of itself.

I still think there are some different possibilities for PvP that we may not have thought of yet. Also, thanks for apologizing Klyde, I wasn't being hostile myself.

So, the other thing I talked about aside from PvP was a graphics update.

The game is showing its age through the current graphics client, and I'm not sure what we can do about that. I know the games lasted over 8 years from live to now, and is in our hearts, and will last much longer, so hows it going to look in 5 years? Catch my drift?

Also, the voice acting and whatnot.

[Player vs Player and Graphical Update]

I've never understood why people keep trying to ask for PvP in EnB. Even back in live the request popped up regularly, which made even LESS sense than it does currently. Back in live we had the Vrix, and the story about them was basically everyone work together and drive out the vrix, or we ALL LOSE. How could fighting amongst ourselves possibly make sense in an all-or-nothing story like that? I don't know what the Emu Devs have planned for the Vrix, but I kinda liked the whole universal enemy dynamic, so I hope that's part of it.

I'm 100% against there being any PvP outside of arena zones. My reason for this: if any kind of open PvP system is introduced, class balancing will follow. Class balancing would ruin the game, as far as I'm concerned. I like this game in large part BECAUSE the classes are not balanced. Each class has its own style of play, and each class has its own unique benefits to other classes, and also dependencies on other classes. In my view, if PvP ever spills outside of the arena zones, that's my cue to start shifting from playing the game to mourning the game. Again.

While I understand this point of view, I believe it's a tiny bit overdramatic.

Lore is constantly changing. If EnB's lore is never touched or changed in any way, it will become static and you will be playing the exact same game for many many years. There's no such thing as a perfect society, and fighting amongst one another is inevitable, especially in space. I don't care how doomed the world is, someone is going to want someone dead.

What you seem to cling to is the idea that Lore cannot be changed or updated. You seem to want to EnB to be stuck in a limbo of "Vrix are here, we must fight them together."

Fine and dandy.

How about 3 years from now?

Or 5 years?

Are you going to be happy floating and mining with your full character slots?

What about what you do when your characters are maxed out entirely, all max level, and you can't delete any of them? What about end game content? What about doing the end game content too much?

Anyways, I suppose most people prefer there to be no PvP in Earth and Beyond. However, what we've all experienced is a game that was canceled in less than three years, and what we've now all had to revive it is a few stress tests where our stuff is constantly wiped and the games being updated. What will it be like when the games finally complete and live? How long will it stay in that form? Preservation is important... What comes after? PvE will stay fun for a long time for PvE'rs, but even some of these anti PvP people will find in 7 years, trade routes look a little "safe".

I like the person who posted above's idea, and I guess if Arena comes back that should satisfy the want for PvP and could be promoted as "PvP", while not being anywhere in the outside world. I don't think I would mourn Earth and Beyond if PvP were introduced. The game HAS to develop and grow, or else it never moves past a pet project.

Edit:

Also, I wanted to make it clear I am not a proponent of "ENB MUST HAVE PVP"... I'm simply contemplating the main reasons the original game failed in a player community sense. What people asked for that was not delivered, and why people didn't stick around.

[Player vs Player and Graphical Update]

Not exactly true... I have played PvP games, I enjoyed some, and hated others. Ryzom's downfall was forced PvP, guilds were split old friends could not group, and even getting to guild halls was impossible for some. Pirates of the burning Seas was another that started out with PvP...You knew from the start if it's red you are dead. The problem I see is the "whip it out and measure" syndrome. If you can smack someone around you are going to do it. If done the way I enjoy, you beat someone and they have the option to drop their sails and the match is over, then PvP is cool. But and a big BUT here most will not play PvP like this, it is how can I spoil this players day...because I can. This sucks... not just it sucks to be you, but sucks in general. Look at POTBS dwindling servers, people lose interest in not being able to just relax and enjoy a game. EnB is for some IS that escape from the day to day issues. Getting more real life issues in a game...well we may as well put in for over time. Stay at work. I love EnB, if there were some PvP in some area that made no real difference to me if I went there or not, then hell yes go for it. Some need it, some have to flex their muscles and have others see it to enjoy their games, Ok cool, I can always turn off the chat channel of the chest thumpers. I can always refuse or accept the challenge.. But if that choice is taken away from me...then I object.

Ahhh.

That was a much more civil and direct response I was looking for.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Not to mention though... Saga of Ryzom and Pirates were just bad games to begin with :/ ... Pirates was a Pirate/WoW Clone.

Earth and Beyond is so unique because its one of the originals that was never changed to compete with World of Warcraft.

All the original MMO's that came out from 1998 to now have all changed to deal with World of Warcraft. Earth and Beyond has not and it should be kept that way.

If World PvP is too much, perhaps players can flag to enter PvP? Or if that's too much, designated zones where PvP is about FUN, and not "Must smack you around", then that sounds good also.

I personally think Earth and Beyond would probably hurt if PvP were enabled too drastically, considering Terran Tradesman would be ganked constantly for fun by Progen Warriors and the like, but also, it would encourage people to stay on their toes, watch their trade routes, and maximize their characters protection (aka, a Terran Tradesmans speed would help them survive a Progen Warriors onslaught, a Jenquai's cloak, etc.)

So, basically, to sum it up...

Bad games suffer horribly from PvP, like Pirates and Ryzom, but I don't think EnB would suffer. However, I do consider EnB an escape myself, to earlier MMO's before WoW, and with EnB being unchanged as it was cancelled before WoW, it's awesome to play an original MMO again, PvP or not.

[Player vs Player and Graphical Update]

Putting it as mildly as I can...

If you want pvp, go play EVE.

The balancing of the classes to be able to compete would be staggering. Bring back the arenas as they were in live, but leave the open pvp to the other games already on the market.

Thanks for some of your responses!

I kind of feel as if I received a "Never"

And two negative "If theres PvP, I quit."

Well, to put it simply, PvP is an important factor of any MMO on the market today. I feel like saying "if you want PvP, play Eve" is a pretty nasty come back though. Eve sucks. And it doesn't suck because of the PvP. It sucks for many more reasons I won't go into.

Ahem...

"I'll put it as mildly as I can..."

I hate Eve. I don't want to play Eve. I want to play Earth and Beyond with some PvP options. If I can't, oh well. But don't tell me to go play another crappy game when I've been attached to this one for over 7 years.

I never said that flagging for PvP wouldn't be an option. I don't think it'd be a good idea to FORCE people to PvP, but in a way, it would make space feel more like... Space. I mean, you can't just go out into open waters today and expect no occurance of pirates. I think there would be a lot of realism with PvP, in a way, but perhaps thats just me trying to think of EnB as more of a simulator of space life.

I just find it hard to believe with the suggestion of a pretty big feature, (not to mention a HUGE factor of MMO's today), two people respond with "I'll quit", in a threatening way without even remotely perceiving different options of play styles available.

[Tutorial]

I'm not sure new players and tutorials are a very big priority for a game that's not even in "Alpha" testing yet.

Also,

Where did this go?

[Player vs Player and Graphical Update]

Hey all,

I've been around for quite some time though I'm just now deciding to post.

This may come out of the blue and I'm sure it's probably been talked about before, but I'm just throwing it out there.

PvP in Earth and Beyond

The game was never designed with Player vs Player and I don't think any of the classes/races/factions were balanced to be able to fight amongst each other or against each other, but this is a pretty big thing when it comes to most MMORPG's now adays. PvP would up the ante a little bit when it comes to being careful about where you mine, and who's looking for you.

Now I'm not sure if PvP would allow you to kill the other person and effectively loot them and whatnot like the olden Ultima Online days in the 90's, but maybe it would allow some friendly dueling or something similar to that?

My guess is a NO on the PvP, as it wouldn't be anything like the original live, but that was one of the inherent flaws with live to begin with, and another reason the game died out (next to EA being idiots).

The second thing I wanted to talk about was the Graphics.

On maxed out settings with my resolution, the game looks clean and beautiful. The only problem is with all of these maxed out settings in a game thats now 8 or 9 years old, the age of everything really starts to shine through.

Is it, or will it ever be, possible to somehow polish the graphics? Is there a way to even update the original graphics engine, and make things look sharper, and give edges a bit more clean feeling, as opposed to some of the blocky looking polygons we have now?

The best examples would be the Earth Starbase, player "feet" and "arms" and other stuff. I have no idea what kind of programming or graphical design team it would take to make something like this happen, or if we even have access to the original graphic SYSTEM, or just the source code for the servers of Earth and Beyond.

Either way, Player vs Player and graphical update are two things I really envision being needed to actually

1) Expand Earth and Beyond

2) Garner the attention of a larger player base

3) Make it the game it never was in live, but could have been

Also, perhaps some new voice acting or something? I'm not sure, but are there any in game files for the voice overs during character creation of the Terran Explorer, Progen Tradesman, or Jenquai Tradesman? Those would be really awesome to dig up and implement, or if not, voice over some new ones! I have the recording technology myself, just not the voice actors! Haha!

Hope to get comments, and please don't attack me too hard if this stuff has already been talked about! Forum traffic is good... Right? *winces*