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When is a public raid not a public raid?

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I think the entire point of this thread was this:

 

The week was left for the public to raid.

 

An example would be this:

 

I am a member of the public and I wish to participate in said raid. I am told , sorry we have enough of your particular type of player in this raid, if you have another toon, then you can come. Then I look and I see that there are members participating from one of the big 3 guilds that are of my race/class or there are members there who are mulitboxing for the raid and one of them is my race/class. Why were they not asked to leave the raid and for me to be able to fill that slot? I am a member of the public, shouldn't I be able to get a slot on that merit alone?  Well, next time a public raid is announced, I'll not waste my time responding as it appears they already have it figured out who is and is not really the 'public'. **end example**

 

 

I don't think this is about babysitting any said raids but more of ensuring that it is not turning into another week for ANY of the big 3 guilds that already have a rotation slot. There have indeed been times when the public has been turned away from a slot based on the very situation outlined above. That, in my opinion, is not fair for the ones turned away.

 

@Jamoos, as for your statement about being part of 4 guilds and which one are you actually a member of, I would think only you know that answer, but for myself, I classify you as a member of Builders Inc. Why? Because you have the opportunity to raid with that guild on their weeks rotation where someone that does not belong to Builders Inc would not have that opportunity.

 

 

I agree that having the Big 3 to assist in getting to know the ropes is essential to successful completion. It is also my contention that EG does indeed know how to complete these raids without assistance, as per their own statements, so why would any of the other large guilds need to be involved for tactics and learning curve? To say, we need 1 or 2 more players to finish fleshing out this raid for successful completion is one thing, but to flesh out the entire raid with just a few folks mulitboxing is not giving fair access to those that this week was intended to target. Just some food for thought.

 

This in no way should reflect upon Static as a whole, for each of us are individuals and are entitled to our own opinions and ideas on how the 'world' works. These views are my personal ones and how I view our 'world' through my eyes, regardless of my guild affiliations.

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I agree that having the Big 3 to assist in getting to know the ropes is essential to successful completion. It is also my contention that EG does indeed know how to complete these raids without assistance, as per their own statements, so why would any of the other large guilds need to be involved for tactics and learning curve? To say, we need 1 or 2 more players to finish fleshing out this raid for successful completion is one thing, but to flesh out the entire raid with just a few folks mulitboxing is not giving fair access to those that this week was intended to target. Just some food for thought.

 

EG does not always have enough people on to orchestrate these, so when a raid is starting and EG is not around we depend on the big 3 to help... If/When EG organizes, it is easier, but that is not always the case....

 

I have not seen this multi-boxing thing you speak of, the raids I have participated in so far were mostly single players and a couple of dual-boxers.. mostly people dual-boxed with a JE to help with jumpstarts and the odd back-up healer. 

 

Too many conclusions are drawn on partial information.  Generalizations formed on too specific of instances... All this does is breed mistrust, anxiety and resentment.  This is why I ask for it to stop on the forums.... The only thing this serves is to continue animosity at this point..

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Too many conclusions are drawn on partial information.  Generalizations formed on too specific of instances... All this does is breed mistrust, anxiety and resentment.  This is why I ask for it to stop on the forums.... The only thing this serves is to continue animosity at this point..

 

 

Daath, that is part of the problem here. There are very specific instances that cause concern to not only large guilded players but those who are not in guilds or in smaller guilds. Because you have not seen or participated in events such as I described does not negate the fact that they happen.

 

Where would you propose that these issues are discussed? Should they be held privately so that nobody from the general public knows what is going on? The only animosity I see is from anyone who feels they are being 'attacked'. If you feel like you are being attacked, ask yourself this? Are you indeed guilty of the types of behavior being talked about? If you are not, then why the animosity. This is solely a discussion on how to keep the public raids what they were intended to be, public. 

 

The point again is to keep the public aware of what is going on. I don't think many will respond in game for fear of being singled out for voicing an opinion. This medium provides at the least, some modicum of identity protection as not all of us choose to use our in game names as our forum names. Many folks on the forums understand what it is like to be singled out for not agreeing. We all have seen and felt this.

 

Anxiety, mistrust and resentment are all outcomes of misinformation. Misinformation has been the root cause of many many heated debates on these forums. Would it not be more proactive to disseminate information about what is going on so that behaviors that are causing issues for even a handful of people can be handled and dealt with rather than keeping it all hush hush and hoping nobody notices and it goes away? There does not have to be name calling and finger pointing to get the issues solved. I am not asking for a 'naughty' list to be posted here.

 

You already jumped to the conclusion that only Static cares because those are the only opinions you have read so far on this thread. I would disagree with that statement and say perhaps there are only a handful of Static that is willing to take the chance that they will also be singled out as 'troublemakers' or 'dissidents' or 'malcontents that can't keep the peace'.  Maybe it is because nobody actually cares, or maybe it is because they are fearful to bring their issues to the front because they don't wish to be singled out or labeled because they vocalize?

 

 

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RD Base Starts next week.  I will try and organize a Raid on Monday or Wednesday.  If I organize the raid, I will make it know well ahead of time in the General channel like I did last week for the Controller.  I was the only Epic guy there because I did not allow the lack of Epic people online enter into my decision to organize the raid.  I am trying to show by example that these raids are public.  I will also be trying to organize raids later in the day to allow our friends in the southern hemisphere a chance to raid.  I think the thing causing the most friction is the balance between the need to take down the raids and getting lots of people involved.  I like raiding and the public week is a step in the right direction.  Even with all the problems that we have had, I think we are all better off for it.  The public raids keep us from stepping on each other's toes.

 

I know that some are upset by multi-boxing but I am finding it hard to find enough public people to fill three groups.  I am looking at my notes and see 6 people on my loot list from the last controller that I ran (Thursday of last week).   Many of those people had two toons there.  They are all as far as I know "public" people.  This raid was more difficult than it had to be because we ran with 2 groups instead of the three that I would prefer to have.  The public was given ample notifications the previous day and in the run up to the raid in the general channel.  I would prefer to run only 1 toon because it makes my life easier but this is a necessary evil until more people come out to raid.

 

To the public raiders reading this: RD base is next week.  I will try and organize something on Monday or Wednesday.  For the RD base you will need Chem for progens, EMP, Explosive or chem for terrans, and EMP/Energy for Jennies.  The most important thing about this raid is ABSOLUTELY NOT using any area effect attacks.  This would be any attack skill that has a yellow icon.  The healers need to bring raid gear unless they don't mind getting dents in their nice stuff.  The TT will get pounded hard.  The best thing I have found to do is hull patch and hope that the Gorilla PW in your group can beat their chest hard enough to draw agro.

 

Loot at the RD Base:  Level 8 Pride Device (very nice), Hellbores, Tractor Repulsor, Singularity Mortar, and tons of Blacksun devices.  This raid drops some very nice items!

Edited by Goodhumorboy

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Daath, that is part of the problem here. There are very specific instances that cause concern to not only large guilded players but those who are not in guilds or in smaller guilds. Because you have not seen or participated in events such as I described does not negate the fact that they happen.

 

Where would you propose that these issues are discussed? Should they be held privately so that nobody from the general public knows what is going on? The only animosity I see is from anyone who feels they are being 'attacked'. If you feel like you are being attacked, ask yourself this? Are you indeed guilty of the types of behavior being talked about? If you are not, then why the animosity. This is solely a discussion on how to keep the public raids what they were intended to be, public. 

 

The point again is to keep the public aware of what is going on. I don't think many will respond in game for fear of being singled out for voicing an opinion. This medium provides at the least, some modicum of identity protection as not all of us choose to use our in game names as our forum names. Many folks on the forums understand what it is like to be singled out for not agreeing. We all have seen and felt this.

 

Anxiety, mistrust and resentment are all outcomes of misinformation. Misinformation has been the root cause of many many heated debates on these forums. Would it not be more proactive to disseminate information about what is going on so that behaviors that are causing issues for even a handful of people can be handled and dealt with rather than keeping it all hush hush and hoping nobody notices and it goes away? There does not have to be name calling and finger pointing to get the issues solved. I am not asking for a 'naughty' list to be posted here.

 

You already jumped to the conclusion that only Static cares because those are the only opinions you have read so far on this thread. I would disagree with that statement and say perhaps there are only a handful of Static that is willing to take the chance that they will also be singled out as 'troublemakers' or 'dissidents' or 'malcontents that can't keep the peace'.  Maybe it is because nobody actually cares, or maybe it is because they are fearful to bring their issues to the front because they don't wish to be singled out or labeled because they vocalize?

I look back through this thread.. I see Static making accusations, founded or not... BI and EG people trying to defend themselves... I guess I am just not interested in all of that... I want to solve problems.. but as long as the Big 3 continue to use the public raids to sling mud at eachother there is no way we can get ahead of that...

 

You, Allura and the Rest of static seem to have little faith in my ability to do anything about these issues.. so I will formally stand down from any participation in these raid discussions, raid issues and the raids themselves....

 

You can ALL burn in hell as far as I am concerned... your petty bickering has me at my limits.. (By ALL I mean, BI, Static, EG, All of you... )

Edited by Daath
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RD Base Starts next week.  I will try and organize a Raid on Monday or Wednesday.  If I organize the raid, I will make it know well ahead of time in the General channel like I did last week for the Controller.  I was the only Epic guy there because I did not allow the lack of Epic people online enter into my decision to organize the raid.  I am trying to show by example that these raids are public.  I will also be trying to organize raids later in the day to allow our friends in the southern hemisphere a chance to raid.  I think the thing causing the most friction is the balance between the need to take down the raids and getting lots of people involved.  I like raiding and the public week is a step in the right direction.  Even with all the problems that we have had, I think we are all better off for it.  The public raids keep us from stepping on each other's toes.

 

I know that some are upset by multi-boxing but I am finding it hard to find enough public people to fill three groups.  I am looking at my notes and see 6 people on my loot list from the last controller that I ran (Thursday of last week).   Many of those people had two toons there.  They are all as far as I know "public" people.  This raid was more difficult than it had to be because we ran with 2 groups instead of the three that I would prefer to have.  The public was given ample notifications the previous day and in the run up to the raid in the general channel.  I would prefer to run only 1 toon because it makes my life easier but this is a necessary evil until more people come out to raid.

 

To the public raiders reading this: RD base is next week.  I will try and organize something on Monday or Wednesday.  For the RD base you will need Chem for progens, EMP, Explosive or chem for terrans, and EMP/Energy for Jennies.  The most important thing about this raid is ABSOLUTELY NOT using any area effect attacks.  This would be any attack skill that has a yellow icon.  The healers need to bring raid gear unless they don't mind getting dents in their nice stuff.  The TT will get pounded hard.  The best thing I have found to do is hull patch and hope that the Gorilla PW in your group can beat their chest hard enough to draw agro.

 

Loot at the RD Base:  Level 8 Pride Device (very nice), Hellbores, Tractor Repulsor, Singularity Mortar, and tons of Blacksun devices.  This raid drops some very nice items!

Good luck GHB.. I know you are working hard to get these working... don't let these people discourage you...

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Good luck GHB.. I know you are working hard to get these working... don't let these people discourage you...

I understand why you want to get out of this raid business.  At least come out and help take the raids down acting as only a player.  We are always in need of bodies.  Even if you don't want any loot, you can at least have fun in the raid.  You don't even have to bring nice gear out.  If you show up in some old "Gate Raid" gear and PM items, that would be fine by me.  I know people are upset at losing quality on their items but I am kind of proud of my dented up gear because it is a memory of past battles that I have fought in.

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The only thing this entire ordeal has brought me is grief... And it is a select few people in a couple of the big 3 guilds that create it...

 

They offer their support and help to my face, then tear us down at every opportunity... This kind of hypocritical crap has done it... I am sick and tired of it..

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What I said was accurate. If anyone took my posts personal they should reread them. Even the screenshot proves what I said to be true. I am on net-7 TS almost everyday during mid day hours. If anyone wants to talk about this or any other subjects I am willing to do so.

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I look back through this thread.. I see Static making accusations, founded or not... BI and EG people trying to defend themselves... I guess I am just not interested in all of that... I want to solve problems.. but as long as the Big 3 continue to use the public raids to sling mud at eachother there is no way we can get ahead of that... You, Allura and the Rest of static seem to have little faith in my ability to do anything about these issues.. so I will formally stand down from any participation in these raid discussions, raid issues and the raids themselves.... You can ALL burn in hell as far as I am concerned... your petty bickering has me at my limits.. (By ALL I mean, BI, Static, EG, All of you... )

Such an eloquent post and really helps the situation.

I tried to approach this situation from a neutral standpoint.Nobody called your abilities to question, but I do now question your ability to maintain a level head.

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you said its your job to police it and youre not. thats the issue. you have people (jamoos) making alt guilds with HIS characters trying to take away from the public. he continues to mock people and wonders why he gets retaliation.

 

 

and yeah, jamoos, when i see you abusing people i stop and inquire.  if you dont like it then stop doing it.

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Unfortunately there is no way to open raiding to more people with the current structure of the EMU.  The number of players that can be involved in a raid is limited by the server and code.  Since most of the raids are on a span timer they are always going to be farmed by the top guilds.  The only possible way around this would be locking players out if they have attended a raid.  Unfortunately most high level players have so many alts this isn't going to stop anything.  Even worse there are so few raids that there is a serious bottleneck once people hit 150.

 

Seriously the pride devices are camped liked clockwork, the voltoi mob instigator is always camped, the raids are camped, the guardian is camped, its all down like clockwork. Why would any average player feel like there was any game-play once they reached 150 and were not in one of the main guilds? It doesn't take very long (after missing out on multiple raids) for players to just say, "I have a better chance of raiding in another game" and just logging off. 

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There is a public week in the rotation where the same shot is given to those not in the big guilds have an opportunity to raid. Take advantage of that opportunity. This week the public is working on the RD Base.

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theres little to do at 150 for anyone. you sit and wait for a spawn timer for hours for 25 minutes of fun. at most that happens 3x a week. it would be nice if there was some difficult group content but there isnt.

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I have to disagree zohawn, there is always group mining!!! :P

 

Seriously though, when I'm not raiding I do a little mining, do a little NPC interaction checking on missions, help a guildie with something, level up a little toon, etc. Unless you have the luxury of spending mass amounts of time in the game, there's always something to do. At least for me anyway. :)

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I like to drink herbal tea and make origami roosters while I wait for warder to spawn.

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I like to drink herbal tea and make origami roosters while I wait for warder to spawn.

 

I prefer to drink coffee and farm rogue drones on another set of toons while waiting for the Warder to spawn ;)

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So when is a public raid not a public raid?

 

It is when Gizardpuke and Epic Gamers roll for the loot in a private channel and do not allow public players into the channel to roll.

 

Enjoy the skull shield Lojik

 

This happened at the last controller raid which was run by Epic Gamers and Builders on 13 January 2014.

 

There is no point having a public raid if the public are being ripped off.

Edited by Not7News

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Erm , i don't know if am missing the point here but shouldn't a public raid on the big 3 bosses (bbg / controller / rd base) be just that ................ PUBLIC ?. Not ran or participated in by BI / Static / VGE . Surely the idea is for everyone outside those 3 guilds to have a fair go at these raids ?  IF  EG are now at the point where they can field and complete these raids by themselves they should be included in the raid roster , and public raids should be the 5th week and be open to PUBLIC only . Maybe place a forum based timer on it so that when these bosses spawn on the 5th (public) week , after 24 hours up-time the raids can be assisted by members from the 4 big guilds . And at these raids all loot rolls should be on local chat (and/or TS / Vent ) to avoid any issues . 

 

 

 

Btw i hardly think you can call it a public raid if EG are there as they can and have shown themselves able to do these raids . Or cant they ?

 

16/01/2014...............

Due to my lack of writting expertise i seem to have given the wrong impression , i am not saying EG DESERVE a rotation spot . I am simply pointing out how can you call it a PUBLIC raid when the majority of the participants are EG + BI (no offence ment to either guild).

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It appears that more often than not, that Epic must include the 'public' and members from other guilds in order to have enough to complete the raid. That would in fact put them into the public slotting, which is right where they are now.

 

I would however agree that rolling for loot in a public raid in a private channel that doesn't include ALL of the raiders present is a really bad way to win friends and help from the public for these raids in the future.

 

I know if I were John Q. Public and this had happened on a raid I participated in, I would certainly endeavor to ensure that it did not happen again.

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So when is a public raid not a public raid?

 

It is when Gizardpuke and Epic Gamers roll for the loot in a private channel and do not allow public players into the channel to roll.

 

Enjoy the skull shield Lojik

 

This happened at the last controller raid which was run by Epic Gamers and Builders on 13 January 2014.

 

There is no point having a public raid if the public are being ripped off.

Who wasn't in the private channel NOT7News/Nicodermis?

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well on that raid i dit not see NOT7news  in there.

It was told like 5 times what TS they where using in local and general chat. they also told on teamspeak that they put  up a private channel to do the talking between the 2 groups. and the rolls where done in the private channel.

 

 

And to reply to Preekoorb.

I think epic gamers have the people and the minds to do those raid them self. So i was already talking to some other officers of BI about the same thing and see if we can trow them in the rotation.

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Who wasn't in the private channel NOT7News/Nicodermis?

That is easy to answer, the public were not in the private channel.

 

This character is not guilded and has only reported on the public raids since they started a month ago.

 

I have no favorite guild and will report on any guild I see doing wrong.

 

Run the raids fairly and ensure fair play for all and you will not hear from me again.

 

As raid leaders you have a responsibility to all participants and ensure fairness for everyone.

 

Act like scumbags and be judged as scumbags or Act as decent people and be treated as decent people. It is your choice.

 

nicodemus? rofl, I don't think so...

Edited by Not7News

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