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Daath

New ammo manufacturing costs....

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I've been told this is a bug, but I see no posts about it.. but...

 

 

Cobalt Ten-Gu bile infused Fangs - 889,100 Credits

Ten-Gu Plasma Shards - 85,680 Credits

Ten-Gu Spines - plasma - 171,360

 

Now since my PW runs 4 bile cannons this effectively stops her from playing... she does not make enough credits (due to small cargo capacity) to feed her ammo...

 

Is this a bug or is this the real price?

 

If it is a bug when will it be fixed?

 

 

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I have seen this as well.

Mortar-Plasma 35000

Mortar-Projectile 49600

 

Almost no profit for 4 hours work

 

Maybe the 30% Holiday bonus has far-reaching effects?

Edited by Sphinxi

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See post # 3 in thread titled: Game Balance, Concerns, issues, rants, and so forth.  Macros and issues with them being used.  (I would use a link, but right now, I'm not able to get them to work)

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I don't know 900,000 seems a little much for ammo even so. Besides wasn't just the price of ore to be changed? Not manufacturing costs?

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Ulyydian did say that every price would be changed. The price of ore determines the price of the components they are used to make. The price of components determines the price of the systems they are used to make. The manufacturing cost of components and systems is determined by the base price of those systems. So those changes to ores were going to "bubble up" to every item in the game.

 

The price of ammo seems to be reasonably close to what is listed in the Prima Guide. On the other hand, those manufacturing costs look more like retail costs. Maybe the formula for conversion from retail cost to manufacturing is not correct. Also, Tengu ammo isn't listed in the Prima Guide, and is made of non-standard resources, and so that may be inflating the cost. Someone who knows a lot more than me about how the prices are calculated will have to answer those questions for you.

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I ran a test last night and tried to make more money with the PW than it cost me for ammo..

I picked the highest loot profit mob I could think of, Gene Hunters in Paramis.

Ammo Costs to load for the mission was about 8,000,000 give or take a little, this does not include COMPS for the ammo, just the build costs.

Time on target was about 45 minutes.

Credits made were about 12,000,000 but I had to use my PP to hold loot/ammo to accomplish this because after you consider swap-in devices for buffing and everything the PW did not have enough hold space to loot high end items like shields and MLs that these mobs drop.

Antares Voltoi loot does not stack at all and drops of high end loot items like equipment does not drop often. So it is FAR less profit and uses as much or more ammo to fight there.

The costs of the end-game ammo is completely out of whack because now classes that depend on ammo are in a credit deficit, this will force everyone to credit farm to feed their other toons in some way. That cannot be good in the long run.

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I can buy a stack of Mortar Ammo for 2800 but it costs 49600 to make, doesn't seem right.

 

Looks like it's been fixed.

Edited by Sphinxi

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It looks like they have been re-adjusted now.... but I expect change down the road.

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It looks like they have been re-adjusted now.... but I expect change down the road.

Beams should be a respectable choice but not the only one. I think you're right there may be a change down the road but it shouldn't be as drastic as it was. But it shouldn't be so minor that people just build millions of high end ammo and shoot it willy nilly.

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Beams should be a respectable choice but not the only one. I think you're right there may be a change down the road but it shouldn't be as drastic as it was. But it shouldn't be so minor that people just build millions of high end ammo and shoot it willy nilly.

why should i be punished for my weapon type...its already bad on the pw and not being able to loot anything

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why should i be punished for my weapon type...its already bad on the pw and not being able to loot anything


Oh I feel you there, my progens are such a pain to manage cargo space it isn't funny. Ammo + Swap items = no space = no credits. I have to pair the PW with another toon in order to loot anything...

I don't think 1 Mil credits to manufacture a stack of ammo is a good idea, but 1500 credits to do that same stack of L9 ammo is also a bit off key... there is a lot of room for middle ground there. Even if they upped it to 100K a stack it wouldn't be horrible, but I would think the 10/20K range is more reasonable.

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10k is fine.

 

 

what they had it set at would cause people to leave the game

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10k is fine.
 
 
what they had it set at would cause people to leave the game


Oh I was pretty irritated until someone said it may be a bug... I didn't spend all those hours building Progens just to have them benched because they were killing the bank... I'm sure they'll retool their value modifications and re-implement it at a more reasonable level now.

Ammo is one of my pet peeves with Terrans and Progens in the first place... The really good ammo is either raid drops, rare comps or manu/drop only comps. Requires farming and prospecting to get ores and such then build comps then build ammo as needed. When you add up all the preparation hours for an hour of fighting it gets pretty bad. Adding extreme costs is just not right. Not when I can login my JD and just go, at the drop of a hat.. What is the balance in that? So they want me to farm credits just to pay for the final builds of ammo stacks? Really?
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None of the weapon types are without downsides. 

 

If the price of ammo is so high, that PWs & PEs cannot hunt profitably that's a problem and should be corrected, but I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't some intent to get you to pick when you use your awesome PLs or MLs vs. using PLs or MLs with lower ammo costs.  For Jenquai if a mob is vulnerable to energy and moderately resistant to Plasma it would be beneficial to use energy beams, and leave one's chimaera at home, though the JT would really love it since she can use her Manticore.

 

I agree with some limitations on parts that are both drop only & non-manufacturable, for ammo, except for the most high end MLs or PLs.  Same for such comps in items, except for the most high-end of items.  For those ammo comps that require a trader to build, I think that falls under "working as intended".  The idea behind that is for the warrior or the trader to buy the necessary ores from an explorer, the trader make the comps, and sell them to warriors, and for traders & warriors to sell ammo to the Scout & Sentinel.

 

With our smaller player base, I think it would work better if the Quartermaster could move from Venus to Glenn, and there was an ore equivalent vendor in Glenn as well.  Put them near F7, give them Glenn Commission faction, as far as faction affects prices, and have them pay about 10% more than other vendors for the same ores, when faction is roughly equal.

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I believe the bugs have been corrected, but I find it ironic that not very long before this a number of people were also complaining that there is nothing to spend credits on and there are BILLIONS of credits just sitting out there.

 

We do nothing to bring down credits, people complain.

We make people use credits, people complain even louder.

 

Gotta love it when nothing you do makes people happy.....

 

As mentioned earlier changing the price of ores affects everything else.

Ores makes comps, comps makes equipment.

Increase the price of the base and it increases the whole by a factor.

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None of the weapon types are without downsides. 

 

If the price of ammo is so high, that PWs & PEs cannot hunt profitably that's a problem and should be corrected, but I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't some intent to get you to pick when you use your awesome PLs or MLs vs. using PLs or MLs with lower ammo costs.  For Jenquai if a mob is vulnerable to energy and moderately resistant to Plasma it would be beneficial to use energy beams, and leave one's chimaera at home, though the JT would really love it since she can use her Manticore.

 

I agree with some limitations on parts that are both drop only & non-manufacturable, for ammo, except for the most high end MLs or PLs.  Same for such comps in items, except for the most high-end of items.  For those ammo comps that require a trader to build, I think that falls under "working as intended".  The idea behind that is for the warrior or the trader to buy the necessary ores from an explorer, the trader make the comps, and sell them to warriors, and for traders & warriors to sell ammo to the Scout & Sentinel.

 

With our smaller player base, I think it would work better if the Quartermaster could move from Venus to Glenn, and there was an ore equivalent vendor in Glenn as well.  Put them near F7, give them Glenn Commission faction, as far as faction affects prices, and have them pay about 10% more than other vendors for the same ores, when faction is roughly equal.

the fact that my entire cargo hold has to be full of ammo completely nullifies  any downside to jen beams. over time jenqs make a lot more money solo than a pw

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I believe the bugs have been corrected, but I find it ironic that not very long before this a number of people were also complaining that there is nothing to spend credits on and there are BILLIONS of credits just sitting out there.

 

I don't have BILLIONS of credits...I'd like to met those people and hit them up for a loan.


 I don't have BILLIONS of credits...I'd like to meet those people and hit them up for a loan or two.

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I believe the bugs have been corrected, but I find it ironic that not very long before this a number of people were also complaining that there is nothing to spend credits on and there are BILLIONS of credits just sitting out there.
 
We do nothing to bring down credits, people complain.
We make people use credits, people complain even louder.
 
Gotta love it when nothing you do makes people happy.....
 
As mentioned earlier changing the price of ores affects everything else.
Ores makes comps, comps makes equipment.
Increase the price of the base and it increases the whole by a factor.


Between my soon-to-be 8 150 toons I have about 1.2 billions credits...

At the costs before y'all fixed it, the build cost at about 1mil per stack of Bile ammo (which is raid drop only and hard for me to get since I don't get to raid regularly) and given the income based on the hold space in my PW/PP pairing I could just about break even, if all I killed were mobs that dropped L9 loot.. Now if I raid it costs me about 5 Stacks of Bile ammo for a simple gate raid.. and I will get nothing back for that except an item or something, MAYBE, and some comps. For the amount of time I actually PLAY the progens that may not be a big deal since I routinely play my JE and JD and they bring in a good amount....

But I look at the players that have a single PW and wonder, how will this effect them? So I ran a test.. With just my PW... it cost me more to make ammo at 1.1 mil a stack than I could bring in on the PW (build ammo, run out to Paramis, Kill Gene Hunters until ammo gone, sell loot) I found my self in a depleting curve... each time I went out I could afford one fewer stacks of ammo...

So 1 mil + for ammo on a PW is not going to work... you will kill the PWs.. Because without ammo they are in bad shape..

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I play a single PW, and I noticed immediately that ammo manufacturing costs were out of whack. I mentioned it in General on Friday night. I don't have billions of credits, and I don't macro, I don't even do jobs. 18 stacks of L6 Mortar Plasma @35000/stack was 630,000 and for what I was doing on Friday night was barely being covered by loot. Projectile was even more.  I have already paid for the stacks of components required to make the ammo, but that also needs to be factored in. I have L6 Build and my Char is L130.

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I play a single PW, and I noticed immediately that ammo manufacturing costs were out of whack. I mentioned it in General on Friday night. I don't have billions of credits, and I don't macro, I don't even do jobs. 18 stacks of L6 Mortar Plasma @35000/stack was 630,000 and for what I was doing on Friday night was barely being covered by loot. Projectile was even more.  I have already paid for the stacks of components required to make the ammo, but that also needs to be factored in. I have L6 Build and my Char is L130.

Exactly my point... I run Jenquai most of the time, so they don't have ammo costs at all.. they put it in their hold it is profit.. PW does not have that luxury...

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Ok I am a bit confused on what people are seeing at the moment.

 

Lv 9 Ten-Gu Plasma Shards - 85,680 Credits were listed.

 

From what I see a stack of 1200 takes about 4300 to make.

Multiple that by 10 stacks and that only 43,000.

 

Likewise  L6 Mortar Plasma takes about 2500 for a stack of 700.

 

Please clarify if this is still a problem?

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Ok I am a bit confused on what people are seeing at the moment.

 

Lv 9 Ten-Gu Plasma Shards - 85,680 Credits were listed.

 

From what I see a stack of 1200 takes about 4300 to make.

Multiple that by 10 stacks and that only 43,000.

 

Likewise  L6 Mortar Plasma takes about 2500 for a stack of 700.

 

Please clarify if this is still a problem?

As of right now, this isn't the case... we are just discussing the bounds of potential or future increase in these costs based on the extreme levels we saw for that one day and how it effected players.  As of this moment the prices have returned to what they were before the patch, which is a very nominal cost.

 

For Example my cost for a button click in Bile ammo is about 1700 credits which is nothing at all. 

 

It seems that there is a general feeling the costs will go up again at some point in the future and for myself I am worried it will be in the same neighborhood as it was after the patch. 

 

The consensus seems to be that super high Ammunition costs are disproportionate to player that use ammo extensively if they are too great and would result in the abandonment of certain classes like PW because of their cost of operation v.s. Jenquai which would have an operation cost of ZERO if you exclude equipment costs.

 

Ammunition is already very tedious to produce and to have costs so high that it requires money farming in order to operate would just add another level of monotony to an already detailed process, in effect creating a time sink v.s. increasing the value of credits.

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For the record, we are not planning/discussing any changes to ammo cost from this point forward.

 This change to the ore was set to the prices they were in live, and in hopes to maybe find some balance in the economy from here on - time will tell.

 

The change in the prices you all seen, was a typo, and not some starting point for us to rework until we felt it was fitting.  I hope this clears some things up for you all.

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For the record, we are not planning/discussing any changes to ammo cost from this point forward.

 This change to the ore was set to the prices they were in live, and in hopes to maybe find some balance in the economy from here on - time will tell.

 

The change in the prices you all seen, was a typo, and not some starting point for us to rework until we felt it was fitting.  I hope this clears some things up for you all.

Good to know... And a relief.. Thank you for the clarification!

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