Eliminating the Jenquai Explorer?

[Terrell [BT]]

One can also use Fold Space to keep a mob at bay, and pick him apart from a distance. Escapes aren't the only use for the skill. L3, in Live teleported the enemy away from you in the direction you were facing. Useful for separating mobs, and also useful for some tactics.

[dukeofskye]

One can also use Fold Space to keep a mob at bay, and pick him apart from a distance. Escapes aren't the only use for the skill. L3, in Live teleported the enemy away from you in the direction you were facing. Useful for separating mobs, and also useful for some tactics.

yes, correct, you could use it like that. but..... it was unneeded imo

I never needed it at least. Why would I want to push a mob away and out of my high dmg beam zone when the mob is blind (coma'd) and not doing anything anyways. Hit reverse and proceed to pewpew and collect lewt. And if one has more than one mob on them anyways, you just do what all the other classes do, hit reverse and kite until mobs die or warp away and learn2pull (or be a hax terran).

And if I recall correctly, once one got a DG, pm = +101% beam range (70%ish using a chimaera), so about 4k-5k DG beam range (3.4k for pits, and 4.2 for EoDs), thats more than enough to pewpew a mob from a pack, kite it back and kill or go into combat cloak kill combo. Worked in cooper, it worked farming voltoi without comas as well. (hell, PWs using basilisk and the basic starter archos only had a 5.5k-ish PL range but they didn't have .6 or whatever sig)

Live enb was far easier than you make it out to have been. The only places (Non-bosses/raids) that required any more tactics than the standard "shoot mob, reverse kite until mob dies" was Ardus mobs/DT Bogerils (scuttles could be soloed). Hell, we had one JE get so insulted over "JEs can't kill shit" that he went out and solo-ed a Roc Bullywere. What did he do? yup, coma'd and pewpewbeams.

But most of this is moot, the EMU has more issues with mobs and broken skills and mechanics before worrying about the balance of the JE. If they fix the coma, mob pathing, mob scanning, cloak, overly high level manes guardians, exp from mining, I think things will be back to how it was and JEs were just fine. Fun list eh, and only cloak is a Jenpie specific-ish problem. There isn't a JE class problem, there is a mob/general mechanics problem.

So a question that has been nagging me for awhile... did you just have no gear during live Terrel?

[Tyran]

The whine about lack of plasma beams is slightly amusing especially coming from Terrell who has no problems ever cuz he uses lvl8 projectiles.

But those against proper plasma beams on JE...you must have an amputee fetish or something cuz that is exactly what a JE is even if you give him 3 uber beams.

I would only start to worry about JE's if they could actually KS another profession...which is not going to happen in high level places.

anyway here is an extremely well thought through beam to make the JE's happy:

Since several other girly men colours are already taken for weapons(notably purple and brown), pink is the obvious colour for this beam.

Pink Dragon laser W9 (W stands for Whine, the reason it was developed. 9 is its level)

JENQUAI ONLY (O RLY?)

1 second reload (one second reload so the girls who use this arent going to do the "let's cloak and wait up the 9 sec reload game", but instead are forced to fight like real hairy men)

75 plasma damage

buffs:

Choosing the buffs is ofcourse the most difficult part because it can be prettymuch anything. But the dragon lasers follow two buffs so here's some ideas:

Ship beautification (equip) Your ship gains a covering of magnificently pink feathers. Bio mobs will not attack you but attempt to mate with your engine exhausts instead. The subsequent goo in your exhausts slows your ship by 50% for 60 seconds and you cannot warp while the engine coughs it up.

Player beautification (equip) When in stations, for one minute Terran male characters both players and NPC's are forced to rapidly spam the sit_breathe emote while facing you. After this spasm of enthusiasm, those characters are forced to whisper you saying how pretty you are, even if you are male, and especially if you are male.

Improved jumpstart (equip) The downed ship can be jumpstarted with some help of a friend of yours. A second ship appears immediately out of nowhere, presumably wormholed, containing a very chill looking jenquai police officer named Zed. Quicker than a star trek transporter, Zed appears behind the downed ship's avatar and gives him a knock on the head. The lights go out and you hear some country western music. After 5 minutes Zed gives you 100k which he has gained as payment from the downed ship for helping jumpstart. The jumpstarted player has -75% movement speed for 4 days while in stations.

Improved whine (equip) ...if this weapon is equipped, when posting on the forum your lettersize is automatically set at 110, posts you create are automatically stickied, stay at the top of the recent post list for two weeks, all players are automatically PM'd of your messages, and last but not least if progens post in your thread they lose 5 combat levels per post.

Multi-whine (equip) You are allowed to spam messages multiple times in threads which cannot be moderated. Also, there is a percent chance that you can multi-post based on your current level, allowing for even more efficient whining. Level 0-50 30% chance to double post. Level 50-100 70% chance to double post and 30% to triple post. Level 100-150 100% chance to double post, 70% to triple post, and 30% chance to quadruple post.

Transgenderification (equip) When at the ship and avatar customizer you may change your gender at will. Additionally a third gender is available allowing wide hips and man's arms on the same character. Also, male characters may wear female attire and make use of female hairstyles.

Access to Shakti (equip) When equipped you may land on Shakti and explore it's pleasures. Shakti has a strict no-clothes policy and has banned heteros. Shakti vendors have a high demand for PVC full body suits, handcuffs, terran male slaves, lubricants and mankinis.

Just some thoughts to be taken into serious consideration.

[Floss]

Tyran that entire post was awesome. +1

[Sydokun]

The whine about lack of plasma beams is slightly amusing especially coming from Terrell who has no problems ever cuz he uses lvl8 projectiles.

But those against proper plasma beams on JE...you must have an amputee fetish or something cuz that is exactly what a JE is even if you give him 3 uber beams.

I would only start to worry about JE's if they could actually KS another profession...which is not going to happen in high level places.

anyway here is an extremely well thought through beam to make the JE's happy:

Since several other girly men colours are already taken for weapons(notably purple and brown), pink is the obvious colour for this beam.

Pink Dragon laser W9 (W stands for Whine, the reason it was developed. 9 is its level)

JENQUAI ONLY (O RLY?)

1 second reload (one second reload so the girls who use this arent going to do the "let's cloak and wait up the 9 sec reload game", but instead are forced to fight like real hairy men)

75 plasma damage

buffs:

Choosing the buffs is ofcourse the most difficult part because it can be prettymuch anything. But the dragon lasers follow two buffs so here's some ideas:

Ship beautification (equip) Your ship gains a covering of magnificently pink feathers. Bio mobs will not attack you but attempt to mate with your engine exhausts instead. The subsequent goo in your exhausts slows your ship by 50% for 60 seconds and you cannot warp while the engine coughs it up.

Player beautification (equip) When in stations, for one minute Terran male characters both players and NPC's are forced to rapidly spam the sit_breathe emote while facing you. After this spasm of enthusiasm, those characters are forced to whisper you saying how pretty you are, even if you are male, and especially if you are male.

Improved jumpstart (equip) The downed ship can be jumpstarted with some help of a friend of yours. A second ship appears immediately out of nowhere, presumably wormholed, containing a very chill looking jenquai police officer named Zed. Quicker than a star trek transporter, Zed appears behind the downed ship's avatar and gives him a knock on the head. The lights go out and you hear some country western music. After 5 minutes Zed gives you 100k which he has gained as payment from the downed ship for helping jumpstart. The jumpstarted player has -75% movement speed for 4 days while in stations.

Improved whine (equip) ...if this weapon is equipped, when posting on the forum your lettersize is automatically set at 110, posts you create are automatically stickied, stay at the top of the recent post list for two weeks, all players are automatically PM'd of your messages, and last but not least if progens post in your thread they lose 5 combat levels per post.

Multi-whine (equip) You are allowed to spam messages multiple times in threads which cannot be moderated. Also, there is a percent chance that you can multi-post based on your current level, allowing for even more efficient whining. Level 0-50 30% chance to double post. Level 50-100 70% chance to double post and 30% to triple post. Level 100-150 100% chance to double post, 70% to triple post, and 30% chance to quadruple post.

Transgenderification (equip) When at the ship and avatar customizer you may change your gender at will. Additionally a third gender is available allowing wide hips and man's arms on the same character. Also, male characters may wear female attire and make use of female hairstyles.

Access to Shakti (equip) When equipped you may land on Shakti and explore it's pleasures. Shakti has a strict no-clothes policy and has banned heteros. Shakti vendors have a high demand for PVC full body suits, handcuffs, terran male slaves, lubricants and mankinis.

Just some thoughts to be taken into serious consideration.

OMFG that is some funny stuff. I started losing it at work +1

[Moche]

i noticed only a couple posts about jen plasma beams beams here, the focus for the most part was on much more worthy things as most know that there are plasma beams already at all levels and that the end game that is lacking just hasn't been added yet which was ackowleged before they even said hey gang we're moving to ST4.

however i find the bandwagoning of the calling gay, insinuating gay, gay bashing, heteronormative, juvenile hate fest extremely inapropriate. and of course 2 of you being from static which already has a fairly low opinion in many peoples eyes because of live doesn't help. you may want to work on your public opinion a bit and pipe down.

by all means call everyone whiners just try not to turn it into a sexual/gender based hate fest.

[Marco[IS]]

...anyway here is an extremely well thought through beam to make the JE's happy:

Since several other girly men colours are already taken for weapons(notably purple and brown), pink is the obvious colour for this beam.

Pink Dragon laser W9 (W stands for Whine, the reason it was developed. 9 is its level)

JENQUAI ONLY (O RLY?)

1 second reload (one second reload so the girls who use this arent going to do the "let's cloak and wait up the 9 sec reload game", but instead are forced to fight like real hairy men)

75 plasma damage

buffs:

Choosing the buffs is ofcourse the most difficult part because it can be prettymuch anything. But the dragon lasers follow two buffs so here's some ideas:

Ship beautification (equip) Your ship gains a covering of magnificently pink feathers. Bio mobs will not attack you but attempt to mate with your engine exhausts instead. The subsequent goo in your exhausts slows your ship by 50% for 60 seconds and you cannot warp while the engine coughs it up.

Player beautification (equip) When in stations, for one minute Terran male characters both players and NPC's are forced to rapidly spam the sit_breathe emote while facing you. After this spasm of enthusiasm, those characters are forced to whisper you saying how pretty you are, even if you are male, and especially if you are male.

Improved jumpstart (equip) The downed ship can be jumpstarted with some help of a friend of yours. A second ship appears immediately out of nowhere, presumably wormholed, containing a very chill looking jenquai police officer named Zed. Quicker than a star trek transporter, Zed appears behind the downed ship's avatar and gives him a knock on the head. The lights go out and you hear some country western music. After 5 minutes Zed gives you 100k which he has gained as payment from the downed ship for helping jumpstart. The jumpstarted player has -75% movement speed for 4 days while in stations.

Improved whine (equip) ...if this weapon is equipped, when posting on the forum your lettersize is automatically set at 110, posts you create are automatically stickied, stay at the top of the recent post list for two weeks, all players are automatically PM'd of your messages, and last but not least if progens post in your thread they lose 5 combat levels per post.

Multi-whine (equip) You are allowed to spam messages multiple times in threads which cannot be moderated. Also, there is a percent chance that you can multi-post based on your current level, allowing for even more efficient whining. Level 0-50 30% chance to double post. Level 50-100 70% chance to double post and 30% to triple post. Level 100-150 100% chance to double post, 70% to triple post, and 30% chance to quadruple post.

Transgenderification (equip) When at the ship and avatar customizer you may change your gender at will. Additionally a third gender is available allowing wide hips and man's arms on the same character. Also, male characters may wear female attire and make use of female hairstyles.

Access to Shakti (equip) When equipped you may land on Shakti and explore it's pleasures. Shakti has a strict no-clothes policy and has banned heteros. Shakti vendors have a high demand for PVC full body suits, handcuffs, terran male slaves, lubricants and mankinis.

Just some thoughts to be taken into serious consideration.

+1 for Effort, and +1 for making me laugh so hard, I cried.

- Marco

[Kenu [CDEV]]

so people's problems with mining are

1. too many ores in fields leads to full cargo holds

2. slow respawn timer after clearing roids fields

3. roid field having to be cleared before roids respawn

4. too low explore exp

is that it?

[garblesoup]

so people's problems with mining are

1. too many ores in fields leads to full cargo holds

2. slow respawn timer after clearing roids fields

3. roid field having to be cleared before roids respawn

4. too low explore exp

is that it?

I believe another large complaint was the disparity between ore field value and the CL of the mobs guarding (big mobs guarding relatively low lvl ore fields).

[Taallonn]

so people's problems with mining are

1. too many ores in fields leads to full cargo holds

2. slow respawn timer after clearing roids fields

3. roid field having to be cleared before roids respawn

4. too low explore exp

is that it?

I think that pretty much sums it up.

[Aerospace]

so people's problems with mining are

1. too many ores in fields leads to full cargo holds

2. slow respawn timer after clearing roids fields

3. roid field having to be cleared before roids respawn

4. too low explore exp

is that it?

Sounds pretty accurate to me. Oh and what Jarod said...for example, a few days ago, I flew by a level 1 ore field with a level 30ish guardian (seriously!).

PS: I think Tyran's beams idea needs to be implemented. RIGHT NOW.

[Moche]

i think you pretty well nailed it kenu... when i mine i expect there to be more ore types in a field than i can fit in my hold, it was that way in live in many if not most cases this is why gasses were always popular for grinding, but i don't want to see dark matter ores outside of ardus. roid fields should be respawning constantly rather than as a whole field, btw getting rid of the field clear bonus would be nice as miners should never be encouraged to strip mine, figuring out what to mine to fit the most in your hold or to get what you need was part of learning the way of the miner. roid fields in live could generally support 2 competent miners at least and in many cases more and countless noobs so respawn rates are way too low especially considdering we play with about 400 people tops, maybe 1/5th of those ever mine at a time and we still run out of ores that are easy for people to access. and i think the explore xp for the miner isn't terrible but the way it's set up it's hard to group as the base or shared xp is too low and the bonus is often too high though itself can be too low depending on what was in the roid. ohh and yeah in many cases mobs in and arround fields are currently vastly inapropriate as their lack of AI causes them to path over the player and they are unavoidable.

[Raytan]

so people's problems with mining are

1. too many ores in fields leads to full cargo holds

2. slow respawn timer after clearing roids fields

3. roid field having to be cleared before roids respawn

4. too low explore exp

is that it?

Only things I could think to add to that are high level mobs being in low-mid level fields, the reintroduction of "pop roids" (or not I hated them anyway heh), and fixed hulk drops.

[mistergreen]

I have no problems with strip mining. I did it in live and I do it now. You have to realize that you can't carry an entire field back with you. Chose 2 types to comb through and you won't have a problem. If you notice the clearing bonus is for that type of ore, be it crystal, gas, rock, radio active rock, hydrocarbon.

I can sit in mars with my lvl 21 scout and pull all the crystalline and radioactives from behind Rom and Rem and still have some empty spots going back to the station to refine and then sell. Of course vaulting the needed ores first.

My gripe is with all the flipping bio mobs there are that some how live in space, why are there not a lot of hydrocarbon deposits?

[Guest Growlz]

cuz der mobz ate em.

Gud if when yer spacd ores frm yer cargo or any 'ting der be az chnce of a mob spwn on yer fer dis grub!

[Work puter]

[kyrm347]

so people's problems with mining are

1. too many ores in fields leads to full cargo holds

2. slow respawn timer after clearing roids fields

3. roid field having to be cleared before roids respawn

4. too low explore exp

is that it?

5. disparity between ore field value and the CL of the mobs guarding (big mobs guarding relatively low lvl ore fields). *as per Jarod's comment*

/signed as I feel number 5 is a problem that should not be put on the back burner.

Conflict in a MMO does not equal enjoyment in a MMO, conflict is just one of many possible ways to achieve and/or enhance enjoyment for a Player. There are many places Mobs can be placed in the virtual space of EnB Emulator besides in Asteroid fields/belts. When it comes to Mining, the enjoyment for Players is frequently in the activity itself combined with the experience of being in the virtual world of Space itself, a situation that some Players enjoy that is an impossibility in real life. Some "Miners" enjoy a side dish of combat/conflict while Mining, but many do not.

Having a few belts with high level guardians is cool, but most belts should have a guardian at or below the level of the Ore in the belt. If there is a much higher level guardian(s) than the level of the belt, then there should be a reason for it... be it rare ores, a mission objective, or rare loot drop from hulks/wrecks present in the belt. Unless the act of Mining itself earns the XP of Combat, there is no reason for a Miner to engage a high level guardian just so they can mine the Ore there.

[Anakhahawk]

I'm looking forward to recreating my JE but it's on hold due to playing time restraints. Until I hear some good news regarding this class i'll sit tight.

[dcwestby]

As the above person said, I'll wait until I have a few less demands on my time before playing again.

[irrelevant]

The only thing I can say is that in my opinion, explore exp as it is right now from mining on ST4 is perfect... almost the same or a bit more than in live (...only a feeling ;P)

[ghent96]

Not every roid field had a guardian. I'd say most probably didn't have one, from my experience in live as PE, but may contain a few poproids.

No Jenq plasma. I think I've said that many times before, but it bears repeating:

JE are not lone fighters, nor fighters at all. They must team up with each other, or with a warrior friend.

JT probably should use missiles and kite.

JW should "downgrade" and just use the terran plasma, or some of the rarer "organic" loot only plasma beams. Iirc they kinda looked like a dragonglare, but may have also only gone up to L8. Still... between those & terran L8 plasma, these were pretty good beams for any non-boss just random or lone field guardian mob.

Jenqs in general are geared to fight other humans when they fight. Progen in general fight bugs. Terrans can kinda do either. I say that just very, very generally based on overall assessment of weapon types, methods, buffs/debuffs. Jenqs just don't like killing animals, especially by burning them to death slowly with plasma. They're treehuggers and bunny petters.

JE are awesome. They will remain very strong characters, despite TE inclusion now.

[Yuritau]

Not every roid field had a guardian. I'd say most probably didn't have one, from my experience in live as PE, but may contain a few poproids.

No Jenq plasma. I think I've said that many times before, but it bears repeating:

JE are not lone fighters, nor fighters at all. They must team up with each other, or with a warrior friend.

JT probably should use missiles and kite.

JW should "downgrade" and just use the terran plasma, or some of the rarer "organic" loot only plasma beams. Iirc they kinda looked like a dragonglare, but may have also only gone up to L8. Still... between those & terran L8 plasma, these were pretty good beams for any non-boss just random or lone field guardian mob.

Jenqs in general are geared to fight other humans when they fight. Progen in general fight bugs. Terrans can kinda do either. I say that just very, very generally based on overall assessment of weapon types, methods, buffs/debuffs. Jenqs just don't like killing animals, especially by burning them to death slowly with plasma. They're treehuggers and bunny petters.

JE are awesome. They will remain very strong characters, despite TE inclusion now.

Picture yourself as a weapons designer working for Sundari, or any other Jenquai manufacturer. You go through all the trouble of designing EMP beams and energy beams. You then get reports back from EVERY SINGLE ONE of your beam-using customers that your entire line of EMP beams is utterly useless, AND that almost all of the stronger biological creatures out there are COMPLETELY immune to your energy beams. BUT, good news, these plasma beams the terrans have experimented with seem to work perfectly normally in almost every situation.

There is no justifiable reason for jenquai weapons manufacturers to not be creating plasma beams. In fact, given the current state of the universe, there's almost no reason for them to keep making ANY EMP beams at all, and probably only enough justification to keep one line of energy beams.

[Terrell [BT]]

Picture yourself as a weapons designer working for Sundari, or any other Jenquai manufacturer. You go through all the trouble of designing EMP beams and energy beams. You then get reports back from EVERY SINGLE ONE of your beam-using customers that your entire line of EMP beams is utterly useless, AND that almost all of the stronger biological creatures out there are COMPLETELY immune to your energy beams. BUT, good news, these plasma beams the terrans have experimented with seem to work perfectly normally in almost every situation.

There is no justifiable reason for jenquai weapons manufacturers to not be creating plasma beams. In fact, given the current state of the universe, there's almost no reason for them to keep making ANY EMP beams at all, and probably only enough justification to keep one line of energy beams.

Agreed, and to this I would add. Why would any L150 PW, TW, or JW want to team up with a L150 JE to kill Manes guarding the orefields? What exactly does a Manes drop that's worth a Warriors' time and ammo in the case of PW/TW? What does a Manes drop that is comparable to him hunting Tengu, Voltoi, BBW Drones, Nif mobs, or anywhere else? Nothing, Manes drop an occasional Manes' essence or two, and sometimes a little organic loot like the occasional spikey fur patch. (In Live they didn't even drop the organic loot). In addition to the lack drops worth a Warrior's time, from Manes, the explore XP they get from the JE's is considerably less than the amount of Combat experience they would get if they teamed up with another warrior and hunted elsewhere.

The High Level Manes were actually healed by our energy weapons, and all levels of Manes were immune to energy. Voltoi were also energy immune.

Most of the time a JE is going into that orefield alone. It's only worthwhile for a Sentinel or Scout to come with, because they can mine as well. At high levels Warriors and Traders have more important things to do than protect Explorers while we mine. Explorers don't need high DPS beams, but we do need more choices and buff combos on Plasma. Something marginally more powerful than the Pitbull Sr (of equal % quality) in terms of DPS would do nicely (without non-manu or unique tags). The beams do not need to be as powerful as the Defender's Pride. It should still take us more time and be more difficult to fight off an orefield guardian than a Scout or Sentinel, but energy only from Nishido, just doesn't make sense.

If it were a real life marketplace, Nishido would get very little business from Jenquai Explorers. They would be out of business, for refusal to meet our needs in terms of choices. Their Ghost's Edge beam has NICE buffs on it, but those buffs on a Plasma beam, even one that did less DPS than a GE would be FAR more useful to a JE (even if the JE needed 3 different Plasma beams to get the same buffs it would still be more useful than a GE when mining). At least as long as orefields are guarded by mobs that are immune to or healed by energy.

2 JE's with energy weapons aren't going to do any more damage to a Manes, at least not with their weapons, than 1 JE with energy beams. Nishido needs to make Plasma as well, and give us choices. (no they don't have to be high DPS, but they do need to be worth our money) Also if 2 JE's are going ot team up, the orefield needs to have enough ores for two JE's to be able to mine for more than a few minutes. Some orefields were best entered alone (in Live) because they simply didn't have the number of 'roids or respawn rate to support 2 JE for more than a few minutes.

[r8rsfans75]

so people's problems with mining are

1. too many ores in fields leads to full cargo holds

2. slow respawn timer after clearing roids fields

3. roid field having to be cleared before roids respawn

4. too low explore exp

is that it?

I noticed this topic kind of dropped off back in the beginning of February, but I was wondering how much of it was addressed? I just started my JE in April and wondering if I will run into these issues later on.

The explore xp is so low on 1 and 2 ores that I went searching for lvl 3 as soon as I could get prospect up that high, and then ran in to the issue of the fields being too large and too diverse, couldn't clear the fields before my hull filled up, the trade xp is also pretty low considering the amount of time you have to put in to refining the ores then selling the comps as compared to farming mobs and selling the loot.

I do believe the respawn timer issue has been fixed, haven't noticed too many empty ore fields and the other issue that people mentioned with high lvl mobs in low lvl ore fields I haven't noticed either.

[Yuritau]

I started a JE recently too, thinking I could dual-box him with my JD for some group mining, but seeing the mining XP from even L4 and L5 ores (rank 3 prospecting, so far), I'm not even going to try. Probably just use him as a WH mule and tour guide for my alts.

I`ll still do some mining occasionally, cause that`s why I started the toon, and cause my TT & JS need certain ores for non-vendor comps, but the JE certainly isn`t going to be an active solo miner.

[bondct]

Picture yourself as a weapons designer working for Sundari, or any other Jenquai manufacturer. You go through all the trouble of designing EMP beams and energy beams. You then get reports back from EVERY SINGLE ONE of your beam-using customers that your entire line of EMP beams is utterly useless, AND that almost all of the stronger biological creatures out there are COMPLETELY immune to your energy beams. BUT, good news, these plasma beams the terrans have experimented with seem to work perfectly normally in almost every situation.

There is no justifiable reason for jenquai weapons manufacturers to not be creating plasma beams. In fact, given the current state of the universe, there's almost no reason for them to keep making ANY EMP beams at all, and probably only enough justification to keep one line of energy beams.

Well maybe you can negotiate a deal with DeWinter... when Jenpies teach Terrans to make REACTORS!!! REACTORS!!! REACTORS!!! maybe we might be inclined to teach you the secret sacred art of Terran Plasma Beams muhawawaaahawhaaaaa

Long Live Infiniti Corp

Edited May 11, 2010 by Avani