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Rank/Hull Upgradesfor Terran Scout


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Just a thought - since the TE's (Terran Enforcers) already have a (naval) rank system --- why not have the TS (Terran Scouts) use a different system, since they would not necessarily be considered an arm of EarthCorps, or implicitly as mercenaries (ala Blackwater/Xe in our reality)... but rather as GETCo employees?

In the sense that they are explorers/miners, might a better ranking system be along the lines of a progression from a lowly miner to a system surveyor/cartographer?

Lv. 0 -- Trainee

Lv. 10 -- Miner

Lv. 30 -- Belter (as a possible tie-in with the mad/rogue belters)

Lv. 50 -- Mineralogist

Lv. 75 -- Surveyor

Lv.100 -- Cartographer (or Systems Analyst)

Lv.135 -- Sector Chief

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Just a thought - since the TE's (Terran Enforcers) already have a (naval) rank system --- why not have the TS (Terran Scouts) use a different system, since they would not necessarily be considered an arm of EarthCorps, or implicitly as mercenaries (ala Blackwater/Xe in our reality)... but rather as GETCo employees?

In the sense that they are explorers/miners, might a better ranking system be along the lines of a progression from a lowly miner to a system surveyor/cartographer?

Lv. 0 -- Trainee

Lv. 10 -- Miner

Lv. 30 -- Belter (as a possible tie-in with the mad/rogue belters)

Lv. 50 -- Mineralogist

Lv. 75 -- Surveyor

Lv.100 -- Cartographer (or Systems Analyst)

Lv.135 -- Sector Chief

neat idea, but no thanks.

TERRAN explorers are not JUST miners though. We're a greedy arm of the terran alliance out to steal your monies and sell you our ores for an inflated price while kiting your raid bosses from 6k away. It is the same reason you don't see the Progen explorers or Jenquai explorers following that path of titles.

But I do think the Naval naming or whatever they are using atm needs to be replaced. Is it really "Warrant officer" for L135? lame >.<

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My main beef with the current system is that TE's use naval ranks, starting with Ensign (equivalent to a US Army 2nd Lieutenant, or 2LT) and upward to Admiral at Lv. 135 (equivalent to a US Army General)

Even the most grizzled, veteran Warrant Officers (TS Lv. 135) are subordinate to even the youngest butter-bar 2LT/Ensign.

I kind of like the miner-oriented titles, but the Jenquai Explorers tend to use a quasi-mystical progression of titles, implying a progression through a sort of a monastic order (Aspirant > Initiate > Disciple > Adept > Master > Grandmaster) while the Progen Privateers have titles in keeping with their (implied) Imperial Roman organization.

I suppose since they are SCOUTS... using another rank scheme in keeping with the Terrans as a bunch of greedy gold-grabbers... we could look at this -- after all, they are GETCo employees.

And perhaps, at the higher levels of this line of work, GETCo is not merely looking for scouts or any old belter who can pump some ore out of an asteroid... perhaps they are engaging in industrial espoionage against arch-rival conglomerate, InfinitiCorp.

Just think of the storyline(s)...

Lv. 0 -- Trainee

Lv. 10 -- Spotter

Lv. 30 -- Guide

Lv. 50 -- Pathfinder

Lv. 75 -- Tracer

Lv.100 -- Operative

Lv.135 -- Spy Chief

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My main beef with the current system is that TE's use naval ranks, starting with Ensign (equivalent to a US Army 2nd Lieutenant, or 2LT) and upward to Admiral at Lv. 135 (equivalent to a US Army General)

Even the most grizzled, veteran Warrant Officers (TS Lv. 135) are subordinate to even the youngest butter-bar 2LT/Ensign.

I kind of like the miner-oriented titles, but the Jenquai Explorers tend to use a quasi-mystical progression of titles, implying a progression through a sort of a monastic order (Aspirant > Initiate > Disciple > Adept > Master > Grandmaster) while the Progen Privateers have titles in keeping with their (implied) Imperial Roman organization.

I suppose since they are SCOUTS... using another rank scheme in keeping with the Terrans as a bunch of greedy gold-grabbers... we could look at this -- after all, they are GETCo employees.

And perhaps, at the higher levels of this line of work, GETCo is not merely looking for scouts or any old belter who can pump some ore out of an asteroid... perhaps they are engaging in industrial espoionage against arch-rival conglomerate, InfinitiCorp.

Just think of the storyline(s)...

Lv. 0 -- Trainee

Lv. 10 -- Spotter

Lv. 30 -- Guide

Lv. 50 -- Pathfinder

Lv. 75 -- Tracer

Lv.100 -- Operative

Lv.135 -- Spy Chief

I think the TS naming conventions are actually OK. They are non-Com's . . . instead of just giving orders they actually go out and get their fingers dirty, they *work* for a living as the saying goes.

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I think the TS naming conventions are actually OK. They are non-Com's . . . instead of just giving orders they actually go out and get their fingers dirty, they *work* for a living as the saying goes.

Perhaps... but as far as I can tell, they are not part of the EarthCorps military, and they'd certainly not be working for InfinitiCorp... to all outward appearances (save for the rank system) they seem to be civilians, working for, or contracted by, a competing (if not slightly underdog) corporate interest.

They could extend the storyline (I'm stretching things a bit for the sake of yet-to-be-revealed content) such as undermining the interests of InfinityCorps, spying for the Terran Alliance, acting against the Navarre Family's (GETCo's ruling family) long-time nemesis, the Chavez clan... and helping out the Psi's by running interference against InfinitiCorp's project in 61 Cygni.

There is, to excuse the pun... a mine full of plot possibilities with the Scout, especially if they are acting in a capacity as scouts, spies, and operatives for GETCo.

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I think that last idea of "spy chief" line is definately better than being a lowly pathetic Warrant Officer. But again, it seems to focus a bit to much on sound like they are spies towards the end. Up to Pathfinder sounds good, those last 3 ranks could be changed though.

To bad the Royal Navy uses the same ranks-ish as the US navy... otherwise using the 2 woulda been awsome imo.

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Actually, I think you'll find the US Navy copied the same ranks of the UK Navy!

*Mostly*. US doesn't have sub-lieutenant designations but instead has Ensign and LTJG (Junior Grade) and the US also doesn't have Commodore.

But you are essentially correct.

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if not for the extra weapon mount, i would probably skip the L135 ts upgrade cuz the title warrant officer flat out sux... i would be like screw the hull Sgt Major sounds better than scrub warrant officer... which sounds like a glorified meter maid

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I'm reading it, I will add this much for now to get your ideas going. They are at least marginally affiliated with the GetCo Security forces.

With that, come up with more names, I won't guarantee a change but I'll see if I like any of the ideas you come up with. ;)

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if not for the extra weapon mount, i would probably skip the L135 ts upgrade cuz the title warrant officer flat out sux... i would be like screw the hull Sgt Major sounds better than scrub warrant officer... which sounds like a glorified meter maid

Is there a list of what the titles for each TS level are? I'm not sure what they all are. *IF* this title doesn't exist already then I would suggest making the Lvl 100 a Master Sergeant and bumping the Sergeant Major title up to the 135. I agree that going from Sgt Major to WO doesn't sound so cool.

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Is there a list of what the titles for each TS level are? I'm not sure what they all are. *IF* this title doesn't exist already then I would suggest making the Lvl 100 a Master Sergeant and bumping the Sergeant Major title up to the 135. I agree that going from Sgt Major to WO doesn't sound so cool.

I think they're like this:

Cadet L0, Private L10, Corporal L30, Sergeant L50, Master Sergeant L75, Sergeant Major L100, Warrant Officer L135+.

If those aren't too appealing, why not put Staff Sergeant or Platoon Sergeant between Sergeant (E-5) and Master Sergeant (E-8).

Another option could be to use Air Force ranks. The ones the US for enlisted are.

Airman Basic, Airman, Airman First Class, Senior Airman, Staff Sergeant, Technical Sergeant, Master Sergeant, Senior Master Sergeant, Chief Master Sergeant. Could go something like this.

Airman Basic L0, A1C L10, SrA L30, SSgt L50, TSgt L75, MSgt L100, and Chief L135+.

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I think they're like this:

Cadet L0, Private L10, Corporal L30, Sergeant L50, Master Sergeant L75, Sergeant Major L100, Warrant Officer L135+.

.

Ahh, great, thanks. I'd suggest something like this, then (spot the kid who grew up on a Marine Corps base :D ):

Recruit L0, Private L10, Lance Corporal L30, Corporal L50, Sergeant L75, Master Sergeant L100, Sergeant Major L135+

Also the low lvls could be shuffled so that L0 is Private and L10 is Private First Class if desired, though I like the graduating from Recruit concept myself.

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There seems to be a bit of a consensus developing, that the Terran Scouts are at least a sort of a paramilitary... still not liking the military enlisted ranks... so here are a few more ideas:

The "Mercenary" work-over ------------- This loosely mimes the military structure that most Terran governments use, with a similar pay grade structure. The titles tend refer to the more "hands-on" nature of their work, as opposed to the soft-living InfinitiCorps Merchant Princes or the regimented but often bureacratically hampered EarthCorps Terran Enforcers.

Lv. 0 -- Inductee (well, ya got to start somewhere...)

Lv. 10 -- Rifleman (The most basic, entry level merc starts out this way, or as a motto of a 18th-21st century national military corps once stated: "Every man a rifleman"...)

Lv. 30 -- Lancer / Wingman (this dovetails nicely with the PW "Lancerate", if I'm not mistaken)

Lv. 50 -- Squad Leader

Lv. 75 -- Group Captain (GETCo's ranking system for its Hyperia Explorers draws from a variety of traditions, including that of the ancient Royal Air Force of the United Kingdom)

Lv.100 -- Field Commander (roughly equivalent to the surface army rank of "Major")

Lv.135 -- Brigadier (roughly equivalent to the surface army rank of "General")

The Scout Version -------------- My personal favourite, as it avoids any overly military connotation, and thereby can operate under the radar of any sector law enforcement or military organizations (read: Earthcorps)

Lv. 0 -- Trainee (well, ya got to start somewhere...)

Lv. 10 -- Forager (in the military, the term forage typically means to get the "low hanging fruit", such as resources from people's land, especailly in occupied territory)

Lv. 30 -- Spotter (usually works as a subordinate to a sniper, marking the shot to be taken for him)

Lv. 50 -- Guide (can be an independent worker who knows her territory well)

Lv. 75 -- Pathfinder

Lv.100 -- Ranger (this could also hint at the TS's similarity to ranged fighter/scout roles in classic MMOs)

Lv.135 -- Outrider (can refer to a horse-mounted scout from the days of mounted fighting units)

The "Corporate" version ------------------------ Like any good corporation, GETCo has its own systems of recognizing the merits of it faithful employees, promoting them according to their talent:

Lv. 0 -- Candidate (implies a "probationary, initial employment" status with GETCo)

Lv. 10 -- Recruit (candidate has "proven" herself, and is a junior member of the GETCo company)

Lv. 30 -- Operative (the recruit is showing promise, and can take on more responsibility for the company's inner workings)

Lv. 50 -- Team Leader (an operative who effectively leads other field operatives)

Lv. 75 -- Bureau Chief (a senior operative in charge of GETCo operations in a given sector)

Lv.100 -- Division Chief (has charge over GETCO operations in several sectors)

Lv.135 -- Executive (one of President India van Helkein-Navarre's most trusted executives, the Executive reports directly to her and shares in most of GETCo's current and highly secret efforts to achieve ascendancy over its bitter rival, InfinitCorp! )

The Witberg Edition -------------- More than a few of the Terran governments had taken to the old German model of ranking, especially in the waning days of the Pre-Unification Period after the mass-exodus of those nations andpeoples who would later become the Progen and the Jenquai.

Lv. 0 -- Gefreiter (roughly means "worker"/rank equiv. to private)

Lv. 10 -- Feldwebel (roughly, "sergeant")

Lv. 30 -- Faehnrich (roughly, "officer candidate")

Lv. 50 -- Leutnant (lieutenant)

Lv. 75 -- Hauptmann (captain)

Lv.100 -- Oberst (colonel)

Lv.135 -- Feldmarschall (field marshal)

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I'm reading it, I will add this much for now to get your ideas going. They are at least marginally affiliated with the GetCo Security forces.

With that, come up with more names, I won't guarantee a change but I'll see if I like any of the ideas you come up with. :huh:

After reading the above with a more fine-grained look at things, a security/law enforcement spin on the ranks:

GETCo Hyperia Division -------------- the Hyperia Project, Ltd. started out with the goal of competing with the Jenquai Sha'Ha'Dem and the Progen Republic's Sabine Explorers. However, in contrast to the scientific idealism of the Jenquai, and the pragmatism of the Progen, the only thing that drives the wheels of science or the will to explore for the Terran Alliance is the "almighty credit". Oh, and let's not forget that antherdriving factor could be InfinitiCorp's rather enormous market share.

Hyperia sought to develop their own warp gates, and they had technology that would make it happen, and make it happpen right, unlike that Tada-O fiasco that took place in Beta Hydri some years ago. Yet 'the road to non-profitability is paved with good intentions but bad investment choices", as the old Terran Trader proverb goes.

Fortunately, there is more than one player in Terran space who seeks to decrease that market share (into their own coffers, of course!) The Good Earth Trading company,or GETCo for short, recently acquired a controlling interest in the Hyperia Project, and although the lead scientists from Hyperia are still serving the project, a new corps of men and women eager to protect GETCo's investments (and make hefty fortunes for themselves, in keeping with Terran principles).

Falling (very) loosely under GETCo's Resource Security Section, they rank as:

Lv. 0 -- Cadet (ya got to start somewhere...)

Lv. 10 -- Patrolman An entry level security patrol position

Lv. 30 -- Sergeant As the rank implies, this position will have lead over a small section of patrols.

Lv. 50 -- Lieutenant Lieutenants command a number of patrols operating in a given sector, and may also rove about between various GETCo sites, helping to keep unruly belters in line, and making sure that the GETCo keeps it profits and its resources from shifting out the hands of less scrupulous rockjocks (miners).

Lv. 75 -- Detective (compare with JE:Adept and PS:Doctrinaire; this rank marks a distinct focus on the officer's role in GETCo loss prvention... and of course, "gains accumulation".)

Lv.100 -- Inspector (Compare with JE:Master and PS:Magister) Inspectors are often tasked counter-espionage and perhaps with the looser interpretation of things that can take place parsecs away from EarthCorps jurisdiction... executing the sanctions of GETCO with a swift vengeance. Of course, these may be simply rumours seasoned more strongly with the re-telling...

Lv.135 -- Inspector General (Compare with JE:Grandmaster and PS:Magister Magna) Inspectors General(or IG's for short) have broad-sweeping power within the GETCo organization, reporting directly to Madame President India van Helkien-Navarre, and enjoying a rank not unequal to that of a GETCo executive. While outwardly appearing to be merely concerned with the overall security of GETCO's mining and exploration interests, their exact role and duties seem to be something of a guarded secret.

Although the Hyperia Explorers have security/law enforcement ranks (under license and grant through GETCo)... it is debatable to what degree they truly function as such... and there are some reports that some of their number even engage in illicit dealings with the various Red Dragon Tongs and other Pirate clans!

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After scouring the intranet for anything that might possibly make what you guys are saying make any sense, i have determined.......

Let it be. It is fine the way it is, it is not broken and it makes 100% more sense than anything suggested in this thread.

Dev's, do NOT change Scout, they are fine the way they are.

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After scouring the intranet for anything that might possibly make what you guys are saying make any sense, i have determined.......

Let it be. It is fine the way it is, it is not broken and it makes 100% more sense than anything suggested in this thread.

Dev's, do NOT change Scout, they are fine the way they are.

Now here I must disagree. :angry:

I never said anything was "broken". This is just a convenience/cosmetic thing, and you're 100% right: it really doesn't affect gameplay.

But, there are some of us who would really rather not grind through 150 levels just to be a mere "warrant officer", which is militarily subordinate to a newbie, Level 0 Terran Enforcer.

The change(s) themselves would likely be a matter a few to a dozen or so lines of code, some ALTER statements on the tables containing the rank/level correlations.

So, I ask Devs to consider this very minor thing, for the sake of promoting good feeling, if nothing else.

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Now here I must disagree. :angry:

I never said anything was "broken". This is just a convenience/cosmetic thing, and you're 100% right: it really doesn't affect gameplay.

But, there are some of us who would really rather not grind through 150 levels just to be a mere "warrant officer", which is militarily subordinate to a newbie, Level 0 Terran Enforcer.

The change(s) themselves would likely be a matter a few to a dozen or so lines of code, some ALTER statements on the tables containing the rank/level correlations.

So, I ask Devs to consider this very minor thing, for the sake of promoting good feeling, if nothing else.

To me it makes sense, as being a scout class in itself lends to the idea of being a subordinate. Not many high ranking scouts in history, scouts were often very good at what they did but non-coms. The only possible way that it would make sense, any other way, is to use Air Force ranks. But being the air force was born of the army, you'd probably not like being a General as it's associated with ground combat.

edit: I played a scout last stress, and will make one after I get my seeker to 150. I like warrant officer, which is why I posted not to change it.

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Just so you know, a Warrant Officer is considered an expert in his/her field. A Sergeant Major is the leading enlisted adviser of a battalion or higher level group. Cadets are college students in an ROTC program. Maybe if one understood the title of the position, they'd respect it more. A rank has much less meaning than a title, imho. a 2nd Lieutenant outranks a Sergeant Major, but a platoon leader as opposed to the top enlisted adviser of a unit doesn't have much say in a situation. Many Warrant Officers I knew in the Army were some of the brightest people I knew and never made a mistake on the job. Sergeant Majors, on the other hand, were the face of a company, like the pres is for the U.S. and we know how much they screw up most of the time.

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Ex-Army brat here, so I here y'all on the role of the NCOs, WOs and CWOs in the US Army.

Yet, since the scouts aren't really EarthCorps/Terran Enforcers but "hired help" for GETCo, it seemed to me that the strict use of military ranks seemed slightly out of step. To me, this seemed to be a huge disconnect. If the scouts were "EarthCorps Scouts", that might have worked just a bit better.

At Margesi (s) station, one of the NPCs is a "General Otto von (some long hyphenated name)-Bismarck". He introduces himself as the head of GETCo security, which as Kyp pointed out in his post upthread, the Terran Scouts/Hyperia Explorers are somewhat affiliated with.

The rules of the relationship likely changed when Hyperia was absorbed by GETCo, and for now, we are left wondering if Loric and Nostradamus Smythe are off counting their space-bucks somewhere, or if they are still active players in Hyperia's future; signers-on with Hyperia (i.e., the players playing as TS) are likely to be a diverse cast of people from hypergate research scientists to belters and miners, and perhaps some former military, as well as some rogues and others with shady pasts.

Going from that, this need not require that the scouts are "in the GETCo army" or necessarily directly working for security. They could be contractors/subcontractors in the same sense that Blackwater and Halliburton have mercenaries and other security contractors.

While these groups do have a chain of command, and most of their employees tend to be former military and Marines, they do not share the same command structure, nor do they necessarily report to US Army commanders.

They do stuff for GETCo that falls largely under - but always - under the colour of the law.

Of course, if I had my druthers, I'd like to see my TS toon's story as largely a miner who just happens to be packing some missiles to deal with any claimjumpers or other such interlopers, as opposed to some contracted security goon.

As an aside, please don't take offense at my defense of this idea: I just really enjoy the development of the game's story line, and makes it much more than just a grinding process of figuring out which device has the best stats against what mob.

And if there is a very compelling reason (either from the storyline or from a dev announcement or some other canonical source) for the enlisted military rank system for the Scout class, I'll happily go along with it.

Lastly, the ranks themselves (especially at the uppermost levels of each class) wouldn't lend themselves to individuals scooting around the galaxy anymore than you'd see a US Navy Vice Admiral flying a F-18 into combat by himself... or a top corporate magnate running around making trade deals with distributors and store owners in suburban strip malls: Bill Gates doesn't make sales calls, he hires bunches of people to do that for him.

In the end, it's just a nice title to feel good about when you've dinged for the 135th time. :)

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i realize that we have had a lot of professional (so to speak) input to this thread from people that truly understand the meaning of these ranks... and while I would say that the rank of Warrant Officer is not necesarrily insulting in any way... my biggest gripe with it is that it just does not sound cool... for example tt top rank is merchant PRINCE... I mean the word prince refers to royalty... a person next in line to be king or queen... top TE rank is Admiral which again is undeniably around the world the top rank... when i hear warrant officer i dont know what to think, but i dont think royalty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_military_ranks

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i realize that we have had a lot of professional (so to speak) input to this thread from people that truly understand the meaning of these ranks... and while I would say that the rank of Warrant Officer is not necesarrily insulting in any way... my biggest gripe with it is that it just does not sound cool... for example tt top rank is merchant PRINCE... I mean the word prince refers to royalty... a person next in line to be king or queen... top TE rank is Admiral which again is undeniably around the world the top rank... when i hear warrant officer i dont know what to think, but i dont think royalty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_military_ranks

And that is EXACTLY my point, Avani. :P

Even the Jenquai Seeker (trader)'s highest rank is a "Huangdi'Jeu". Huangdi is the Chinese word for the immortal "Yellow Emperor", not merely royalty, but the legendary founder of China's first empire.

And while Warrant Officers are arguably the cream of the non-officer corps of any military... the title simply lacks the panache of a "prince" or "admiral".

Now something like "Elite Ranger", or "Outrider", or even "Wayfinder". Give us a title to be proud of after all that level-grinding, not something that is at best a higher middle-management grade within a military organization.

Other synonyms for a high-ranking Terran Explorer can be:

- Founder

- Conquistador

- Chief Navigator

- Hypernavigator (in reference to GetCo's attempts to break Infiniti' death grip on interstellar travel tech)

The possibilities for some better-sounding ranks --- in terms of having accomplished the goal of hitting at least level 135 as a TS are there.

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