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Pakkrat

Class Sub-Sects Variatoins

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This is another long-shot, but here goes:

 

     Without damaging the client, can the various classes be given sub-sects with slightly varying skill-sets?  Here's what I've managed to glean so far from the Earth & Beyond Storyline resource:

 

Progen Warriors

      Centuriata

      Sabura

 

Progen Sentinels

     Reclaimers

     Restorers

     Specialists

     Versatiles

 

Progen Privateers

     Agrippa Architechti

     Collegia

 

Jenquai Defenders

     Shinwa

     Sev Tushnim

     Kokura

     Kaojin

 

     Optional:  Malefari (Mordana)

      Shodakan

 

Jenquai Explorers

     Sha'ha'dem

     Cenovar Warlocks

    

     Optional: Malefari (Mordana)

      Shodakan

 

Jenquai Seekers

     Sharim

     Cenovar Warlocks

 

Terran Enforcers

     EarthCorps

 

Terran Traders

     InfinitiCorp

     GETCo

 

Terran Scouts

     Hyperia

     Malacore (Psis)

    

 

      Sorry, I was unable to find more on the Terrans.  Anyways, my idea is that each class has a baseline set of skills and maybe one or two skills variation from the base.  Will this upset game balance or harrow the client?

 

Creeping from the Archives at NET-7 SOL, this is the Pakkrat.

Edited by Pakkrat

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Interesting, please further elaborate how they would be different.  If I recall correctly, the skills that the Sabine & Sha'ha'dem got at L135 required that you be affiliated with your starting faction.  In EnB Origins you could get kicked out if you got your faction with your starting faction too low.  For the PE & JE there was an atonement mission if you were no longer a member of your starting affiliation and you wanted access to the L135 skills.   Whether or not what you propose is doable, I don't know.  I think one of the devs mentioned that in the emulator, being kicked out of your faction hadn't been implemented.  Don't know if that's still the case, but it wouldn't be unreasonable for that to happen.

 

Might be interesting, if it's possible, to do.  One question would be how many different factions can the game have & keep track of under current client limitations.   If there's room for those, along with the factions that are expected in the game, it does sound pretty interesting.  Differences could come in the form of faction adjustments, if skill changes aren't possible, as well as access to content that you might not otherwise be able to get.

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There is unfortunately a hard code restriction in the client on the number of skills we can get in, so without the original code for the client, I don't think such is a possibility. The best thing we could do would be a complete class rebalancing with the existing skills but I don't think that'll happen any time soon.

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Well,

 

     For starters, each sub-sect might have different starting Faction and affinities with other Factions.  For examples, the Sabura are aligned closely with the Sabine rather then the Collegia.  The Sev Tushnim are We Who Serve In Silence, giving aid to all regardless of race, class, or Faction and might have good ties across the board except for pirates.  The Malacore (Psis) might have good Faction with the Jenquai race even as they feel oppressed by the mainstream Terran population.  The Cenovar are self-exiles just after the Gate War and might have better Faction with those who craft or engage in sciences for science sake, without all that moralistic contraint of the Sha'ha'dem.  This is just initial thoughts on starting Faction.  A new matrix chart would have to be drafted for these sub-sects.

    Then, look at the sub-sects and see what it is they do.  Sabura are Beta-caste Progen warriors, a secret project of the Sabine; they have a conscience where the Centuriata are pure soldiers.  Perhaps a skill that is given to them from the Sabine Order to replace, say Self-Destruct?  The Sev Tushnim are helpers.  Could they have concentrated in the realm of Jumpstart or other restorative skill to the stranded?  Might the Cenovar be builders of weapons without the moralistic or religious indoctrination of the Sha'ha'dem or the Sharim?  Will the Malacore, led by that enigmatic Psi of the same name, have more psionic skill(s)?  Just examples of small variations based on the descriptions of each sub-sect.

     Finally, story lends itself to seeing each of these fringe sub-sects move and tweak the timeline, each in their own way.  Perhaps a few mission lines that address such in each Act of the storyline?

 

In answer to Terrell, this is the Pakkrat.

Edited by Pakkrat

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There is unfortunately a hard code restriction in the client on the number of skills we can get in, so without the original code for the client, I don't think such is a possibility. The best thing we could do would be a complete class rebalancing with the existing skills but I don't think that'll happen any time soon.

It would be awesome if you could at least start this line of thinking.  With the addition of the 3 new race/classes the game has become unbalanced and a bit unfair.

Take the skills "Negotiate - Scan and Navigate for example...

 

Negotiate is terran by default so all terrans get it..  but in the Original Live TT was alone in the trade buisness..  a fix of sort is really needed here.

Why not give all traders Negotiate to Max skill?  Its after all a Trader skill.  Let TE and TS keep the Nerfed lvl 5 version and terrans still got the upper hand in this as a race.

 

Scan is obviosly a jenquai skill but tweaks towards explorers. So why not give all explorers the max lvl7 scan skill and let the JD and JS keep the lvl5 beeing jenquai.

 

Navigate is all over the place. 2 classes got it maxed..  TS and JE.  The abillity to warp fast with little energy use is clearly an explorer skill.  So why not let the PS get at least a lvl5 navigate?  From maxed on 2 explorers to nada on PS seems unfair as they all need this skill to jump between rocks. I do recognize the progens are supose to be limited in speed and hence lvl5 for PS.

  

Then out of the blue the TT gets navigate.   hmm  ok so this is actually a good skill for a long run class?  They need speed between the gates and not any use of saving energy as they travel.  (yes i know they had it in Live) ..   But if this is actually a Trade / explorer skill shouldent the 2 trader classes PP and JS get at least the lvl5 version as well?....

 

These are just thoughts and its time to start balancing the game based on 9 classes. We have now 6 classes and 3 out in the cold trying to fit in classes.

 

Johnsilver.

Edited by Johnsilver2

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PE doesn't get Navigate for the same reason that the JW doesn't get damage control.  Racial weakness.  Progen are supposed to be slow, Jenquai are supposed to have weak shields/hulls.  The Sentinel; however, gets best in profession firepower, and is the only explorer that gets L9 shields.

 

JT did originally have L7 Negotiate, but it was lowered to L5 when Build Reactor was added at the beginning of ST4.  PT always had Negotiate 5.  JT and PT get the one build that the TT doesn't have, Build Reactor.  (no player can build his race's "weakness" item)

 

Giving L7 Scan to the other 2 explorers would give them scan range equal to the JE (the pure explorer) before buffs.  Right now when it comes to scan range, plus scan skill the classes rank Explorer > Scout/Sentinel > Defender > Seeker > everyone else, not counting buffs.  Explorers all get an expanded base scan range that the other professions don't get 5.0 vs 3.5.  Scan% buffs give more added scan to explorers, than traders or warriors (those only buff base scan range).  JW also gets Share Scan, while JT does not.

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PE doesn't get Navigate for the same reason that the JW doesn't get damage control.  Racial weakness.  Progen are supposed to be slow, Jenquai are supposed to have weak shields/hulls.  The Sentinel; however, gets best in profession firepower, and is the only explorer that gets L9 shields.

 

JT did originally have L7 Negotiate, but it was lowered to L5 when Build Reactor was added at the beginning of ST4.  PT always had Negotiate 5.  JT and PT get the one build that the TT doesn't have, Build Reactor.  (no player can build his race's "weakness" item)

 

Giving L7 Scan to the other 2 explorers would give them scan range equal to the JE (the pure explorer) before buffs.  Right now when it comes to scan range, plus scan skill the classes rank Explorer > Scout/Sentinel > Defender > Seeker > everyone else, not counting buffs.  Explorers all get an expanded base scan range that the other professions don't get 5.0 vs 3.5.  Scan% buffs give more added scan to explorers, than traders or warriors (those only buff base scan range).  JW also gets Share Scan, while JT does not.

That pretty much explains exactly how it is..  and what i was asking for is a change. We have 9 classes to balance now and this way is still based on the old 6 core classes. It doesent matter how things use to be as the hole game dynamics are now diffrent and we need to start thinking diffrent.

Some skills are primaraly based on proffesion, and other skills on race.  Negotiate should be the same for all traders..  its a trader skill more then a perk of terrans.  Yes Progens limitations are speed, i did say so in post.  But we have 3 miners now.. and the PS is left in the dirt.  Why not give him nav to at least lvl5?  Hardly unfair to the other 2 miners.  This is ofc just a few skills and the real problem lies in overall shift of balance after the 3 new classes was introduced. So again all im asking for is a good debate on how we can make the game dynamics fair based on 9 classes.  Its all over the place in some areas right now.

 

Johnsilver.

Edited by Johnsilver2

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I don't think it's unfair that the Sentinel doesn't get navigate, since they get the best combat ability among the explorers.  I do think; however, that it would be fair to give them a L9 device that gives them a 40% chance of warping in gravity wells.  Said device could be rewarded as a print, PE Only, for either the MCP, or a comparable mining project (I'm in favor of more mining projects/missions).   That would make mining in gravity wells, fairer to the PE, though the JE would be better being able to engage warp (50%) with Navigate 7, and the Scout would still be the best (100%) with Null Factor 5 in gravity wells.  The PE would be better, though not faster.

 

I do agree that some balancing around a 9 class system is very much needed.  I think that the JT needs improvement in how she can support groups in ways that aren't redundant to the JE and TT, beyond Reactor Optimization (which stacks with the buffs JE brings).   AFAIK JT is the least popular class on the server.  In EnB Origins the PE was.  I think that the Scout is also in need of improvement, as is the PT.  I do think said balancing for the new classes needs to evolve around what they can do as supporters in combat, since all 3 of the new classes are supporters in whole or in part.  I don't know that the devs' limits on that are though.

 

I do think that each explorer should have some things for them that are special and to some degree they do but there should still be tradeoffs.  Same for the Traders & Warriors.

 

For the explorers the tradeoffs are:

 

Scout:

Positive:  Negotiate 5, Bigger hold, fastest class, best weapon range, full immunity to gravity wells, and all effects of gravity shears via skill.  No racial restrictions on builds, can use equipment from any race, absent specific restriction on item.

Negative:  Poor shields, no "hide" skill (JE's Cloak, PE's Powerdown), worst reactors. Uses ammo, but cannot build.

Middle: Firepower greater than JE, significantly less than PE.  Average device selection.

 

PE:

Positive:  Best firepower (critical targeting), Best Shields, strongest hull, good skill set for combat. L9 shields

Negative: Slowest explorer, no environmental defense, poor device selection, needs ammo but cannot build, and has small hold space.  Cannot use Jenquai equipment.

Middle: Reactor, largely thanks to the Vulture reactor, and the addition of the PT. Average weapon range.

 

JE:

Positive:  Stealthiest explorer, best reactors, best scan range, great combat support, great device selection, & can teleport (Fold Space and wormhole).

Negative:  Poor shields, weak hulls, short range weapons, reduced damage when beams are used beyond 50% range. Cannot use Progen equipment.

Middle:  50% chance of warping in gravity wells.  Immunity to gravity shear damage via skill, but cannot warp in gravity shear (even with max navigate).  Somewhat average engines.

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Ahhhh   Just give my PP combat trance, negotiate to lvl7, An extra gun, but leave the 5th devslot, lvl 9 engines and lvl 7 HDC..   i means its fair in my book ?  :P

Seriously tho i have all respect for the trxiy part of rebalancing the game. And i never said i had a solution, just some thoughts. It would be cool if others care to post here if you have

your own ideas. I think it needs to be held into the light so at some point we can really make it happen.  It's a good deal for everyone with a more fair game. ^_^

 

Johnsilver :ph34r:

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What I had more in mind, was that the PT get a support skill of some sort for the L7 skill that they're missing (PT has one fewer skill than all the other classes).  The JT and Scout getting some new activated devices, that do things that hadn't been done before.  I don't think that the PT needs to change their device/weapon configuration, or make changes beyond adding the one missing PT skill.

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