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Bonuses for matched racial weapon sets...


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We sadly pretty much have an "optimum" build thing going on, with every class at any level pretty much having the same "best" build. And because no race can debuff its own primary damage type, the weapons are just about always of another race's tech, because you can use debuff devices or ammo with better damage types.

 

To mix things up a bit, I'd like to suggest bonuses for using full sets of matched weapons from your own race. The bonuses would be something like reduction or elimination of resists to the damage type, crit damage bonuses or other meaningful bonuses like raising weapon handling level, energy conservation, etc. 

 

I would suggest that the bonuses make using your own races' weapons more attractive for general situations than the current scenario of other races' weapons always being more attractive. Other race's gear should be more useful for specialized scenarios, such as enemies that have special resists and such.

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all explorer classes can debuff thier racial primary dmg type with l9 devices.. what more do we need.. TS - explosive JE - Plasma PS - chemical.. PW can debuff chem l8 and grav link for impact booster TE(TW) can debuff emp l8 and if im not mistaken the JD can debuff plasma l8 again... and there are much crossovers..

MMO... Edited by Aru
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all explorer classes can debuff their racial primary dmg type with l9 devices.. what more do we need.. TS - explosive JE - Plasma PS - chemical.. PW can debuff chem l8 and grav link for impact booster TE(TW) can debuff emp l8 and if im not mistaken the JD can debuff plasma l8 again... and there are much crossovers..

MMO...

 

The JT can debuff her racial weapon type with a PM L9 device, as can the Scout, but those are profession specific devices rather than class specific devices.  The Manticore that the JT can use can also be used by the TT and PT, the Salamander that the Scout can use can also be used by the JE and PE.

 

 Nishido, the Jenquai weapons company, makes only one Plasma beam as far as I know, the JW Only Defender's Pride.  Blacksun, and the Terran companies like GETCo make most of the plasma beams that Jenquai use.

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first of all, the primary damage types for each race is the same for all classes within the race. Progen = Impact, Jenquai= energy, and terren= explosive. However it is usually not the preferred damage type as most players prefer to use plasma reguardless of race or class.

plasma, chemical, and emp have their uses but were not designed to be a primary. debuffers for these were made to equalize the mobs normal resistances.

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Right so all you all are saying is "using my race's native weapons will always put me behind people using other races weapons + debuffers".

 

Oh, except when we get to the L9 end game, THEN everything's fine. Everyone powerlevels right up there immediately so what's this guy's problem (:rolleyes:)

 

Note that unlike some overly entitled people, I'm not crying about a reduction in something that's pretty awesome anyways. I'm saying that when we put effort into using weapons from our own race, we at least get a little something, like zeroing out the damage resists so at least you get BASE damage from them. This is still lower than the imports + debuffer, and the Trader buff devices will still buff (not that I ever see anyone grouping vs multiboxing anyways) so nobody else's applecart is getting upset by the suggestion.

 

What it will do is allow us to use weapons which have buffs made specifically for our race, and that's a good thing.

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Not necessarily.  If you're using a Progen with PLs and using chemical ammo, you have a PM line of debuffers.  Sparta does make Projectile launchers that can do multiple types of damage, usually one or more of the following Impact, Chemical, or Plasma.  PE/PW also get gravity link, which has a hidden debuff in it above a certain level.  I think it's to impact and explosive, but I'd need another person to verify that.

 

If you're using a Terran Scout with Explosive damage, you've have access to a PM line of explosive debuffers, that runs from L3-L9, also you've got the mini-line of Rada devices, L3-L5 which debuff Plasma.  Terrans make some of their own MLs that have Explosive, Chemical, Plasma, and EMP ammo, though not all MLs do all damage types.  The Rada devices are usable by all Terrans and Jenquai.  The explosive debuffer available to the Scout is available to all 3 explorers.

 

If you're playing a Jenquai, you get the PM debuffers for Plasma in the Chimaera line.  Nishido, which is the Jenquai weapon's manufacturer; however, only makes one plasma beam, the Defender's Pride.  DP is L9 and JW Only.  All other beams manufactured by Nishido are either Energy or EMP.  The JT does get a line of PM debuffers to energy, but the JE and JW don't.  If Jenquai want to match their beam type to the Chimaera line, they must use non-Jenquai made beams, except for the Defender's Pride.  The JT's energy debuffer is available to all Traders.  Generally Jenquai who wish to use Plasma beams have to use beams of Terran manufacture.  Nishido does; however, make PLs and MLs capable of firing Plasma ammo.

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I don't understand why everyone is quoting the long list of exceptions as if that's a reason a rule which in any other game would be considered to be wreaking havoc shouldn't be changed. The very fact that there are dozens of racial weapons which nobody of the same race ever bothers with should be a huge neon sign that there's something wrong. Except for some very specific exceptions (ex. my Jenq uses a Purple Dragon with the de riguer Mastiffs + Rada for the crit bonus) most of your own race's gear goes unused because import gear + buffer is just so much better.

 

The proposed change doesn't allow anyone to do more DPS than they can by using the import gear. Because of this fact, there's neither a nerf nor a buff happening. You can't have a balance change if the proposed change doesn't actually confer an advantage over what you can achieve otherwise without undue effort. For "serious" play, everyone's going to outfit with the best possible gear anyways, and that's the import gear.

 

But loosening things up like this means that people don't HAVE to have the import gear to avoid unnecessary penalties. PROVIDED they run matched sets of their races' gear, or maybe just all their races' gear? TBD.

 

To open the subject up further, I'd suggest additional matched set buffs be considered, like engine + reactor + shield buffs of some appropriate type. Devices I dunno about. It's possible I guess.

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If you're Progen, and not a PT you can debuff your base type of damage, Impact, with the Gravity Link skill.  L5+ gravity link debuffs impact, in addition to it's listed effects.  You can do this using Projectile launchers of Progen manufacture (Sparta).   The PT misses out there since he doesn't have Gravity Link.  Progen also make their own projectile launchers capable of firing chemical ammunition, which all Progen can debuff with the Basilisk line of PM devices.  They can do this with weapons that are made by Progen companies, for Progen use.   So Progen don't have to import PLs to match their Basilisk line of PM debuffers for Chemical and, except for the PT, they can debuff Impact with a hidden effect on one of their key skills.

 

Terrans if they wish to use Plasma can also use their own MLs along with a debuffer, the Rada mini line of devices. (Rada is Progen restricted, but everyone else can use)  The Scout gets a little extra because he can also debuff explosive, with the explorer only line of Salamander devices.  Terrans don't have to import MLs to do a type of damage they have a PM debuffer for.  The missile launchers in question are of Terran design, usually InfinitiCorp or GETCo.

 

It's the Jenquai race, except for the JT, that must import weapons from another race, or use Projectiles, to match their PM debuffers.   The Jenquai get a PM Plasma debuffer from L3-L9 devices, and another from L3-L5, but only 1 Jenquai beam is made with plasma damage.  Instead unless you're a JW and using a DP, you must import your beams if you want plasma and to match them up with your Chimaera or Rada.  The JT; though, gets a break in that she can use the Manticore line of debuffers to debuff her primary damage type, since all traders can use that device.  I've often argued for Jenquai manufactured plasma beams to have more variety than just the DP, but it's because I'd like to see common Jenquai buffs on some Plasma beams.   Then again if I could find buffs like Improved Cloaking, reduce sig, Scan, Recharge Reactor on otherwise average (think DPS for their level) Plasma beams, I could care less who the original manufacturer is.  We do get another racial debuffer that's very useful: the Coma.

 

Some of this is done with the intent of getting the races to work together in game play.   Some of this is so you hunt for better items.    I do think that it would be nice if there were more "average" choices in L8-L9 weapons for all races.  Much of the weapon importing is done because in many cases the weapons themselves are better.

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If you're Progen, and not a PT you can debuff your base type of damage, Impact, with the Gravity Link skill.  L5+ gravity link debuffs impact, in addition to it's listed effects.  You can do this using Projectile launchers of Progen manufacture (Sparta).   The PT misses out there since he doesn't have Gravity Link.  Progen also make their own projectile launchers capable of firing chemical ammunition, which all Progen can debuff with the Basilisk line of PM devices.  They can do this with weapons that are made by Progen companies, for Progen use.   So Progen don't have to import PLs to match their Basilisk line of PM debuffers for Chemical and, except for the PT, they can debuff Impact with a hidden effect on one of their key skills.

 

Terrans if they wish to use Plasma can also use their own MLs along with a debuffer, the Rada mini line of devices. (Rada is Progen restricted, but everyone else can use)  The Scout gets a little extra because he can also debuff explosive, with the explorer only line of Salamander devices.  Terrans don't have to import MLs to do a type of damage they have a PM debuffer for.  The missile launchers in question are of Terran design, usually InfinitiCorp or GETCo.

 

It's the Jenquai race, except for the JT, that must import weapons from another race, or use Projectiles, to match their PM debuffers.   The Jenquai get a PM Plasma debuffer from L3-L9 devices, and another from L3-L5, but only 1 Jenquai beam is made with plasma damage.  Instead unless you're a JW and using a DP, you must import your beams if you want plasma and to match them up with your Chimaera or Rada.  The JT; though, gets a break in that she can use the Manticore line of debuffers to debuff her primary damage type, since all traders can use that device.  I've often argued for Jenquai manufactured plasma beams to have more variety than just the DP, but it's because I'd like to see common Jenquai buffs on some Plasma beams.   Then again if I could find buffs like Improved Cloaking, reduce sig, Scan, Recharge Reactor on otherwise average (think DPS for their level) Plasma beams, I could care less who the original manufacturer is.  We do get another racial debuffer that's very useful: the Coma.

 

Some of this is done with the intent of getting the races to work together in game play.   Some of this is so you hunt for better items.    I do think that it would be nice if there were more "average" choices in L8-L9 weapons for all races.  Much of the weapon importing is done because in many cases the weapons themselves are better.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but any example that relies on devices from another race - not just weapons - is kind of proving my point, as is anything that relies on a class-specific skill. The problem I'm trying to address is the number of weapons per race that go unused because the built-in debuffs to their damage type causes an immediate rush to another race's gear.

 

Progens may have the most ability to use their own races' gear, but if you look at exactly what is most popular for each stage of the character's development, you're going to find few to no examples of Progen-only weaps and debuff because of the size of the DPS difference. And the other races are worse off.

 

And everyone, everyone harps on getting Plasma weaps + debuff, when there's 5 damage types in game. I can't name any other game I've ever played which would allow a single damage type to rule gear choices like this. 

 

Thought experiment - suppose instead of you getting the Jenq Plasma beams you want, instead having an all-Jenq energy beam lineup caused their damage to be buffed to near enough the DPS of Plasma + Rada / Chim that choosing an all-Jenq lineup for their race-specific buffs was a real option for you? And please remember, if you don't exceed the DPS of the gear everyone is already using or confer some other combat-affecting ability, you're not unbalancing anything. 

Edited by Manfredjinsinjin
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I don't mean to be argumentative, but any example that relies on devices from another race - not just weapons - is kind of proving my point, as is anything that relies on a class-specific skill. The problem I'm trying to address is the number of weapons per race that go unused because the built-in debuffs to their damage type causes an immediate rush to another race's gear.

 

Progens may have the most ability to use their own races' gear, but if you look at exactly what is most popular for each stage of the character's development, you're going to find few to no examples of Progen-only weaps and debuff because of the size of the DPS difference. And the other races are worse off.

 

And everyone, everyone harps on getting Plasma weaps + debuff, when there's 5 damage types in game. I can't name any other game I've ever played which would allow a single damage type to rule gear choices like this. 

 

Thought experiment - suppose instead of you getting the Jenq Plasma beams you want, instead having an all-Jenq energy beam lineup caused their damage to be buffed to near enough the DPS of Plasma + Rada / Chim that choosing an all-Jenq lineup for their race-specific buffs was a real option for you? And please remember, if you don't exceed the DPS of the gear everyone is already using or confer some other combat-affecting ability, you're not unbalancing anything. 

 

The first paragraph has to do with the intention of getting the races to work together.  So say you're dealing damage with Plasma projectiles on your Progen character, another group member is a Terran using Plasma MLs.  If a Jenquai with a L8 or L9 chimaera comes along and debuffs the mob, the Terran & Progen do more damage than they would without the Jenquai character.  Gear and abilities are split up between the races & professions for this reason.

 

For the second paragraph, not all equipment is equal.  Vendor items will tend to be inferior to looted/PM items, this is to get you to obtain equipment by interaction with other players, or finding the drops and building them yourself.  This applies to all level players.

 

For the 3rd paragraph, Plasma is the most popular damage type for all races because it's the most effective for most situations.  Plasma gets bonus damage against shields, though it doesn't do as well against hulls.  Against Bio-mobs there is no downside to using plasma, unless the mob is very resistant or immune to plasma, because bio-mobs don't have hulls

 

For the Jenquai I've often argued for such beams due to the buffs involved & due to encounters with enemies that are resistant or immune to energy.  For example if you're a Jenquai hunting Voltoi in Antares, or you're killing the fire creatures on Endriago Planet for a component used in the SSR7, you must use plasma as the mobs in question are immune to energy.  In EnB Origins, high level Manes, which often guarded L8+ ore fields were actually healed by energy beams (a few manes essence wouldn't be worth a warrior's time & ammo).   Also in the case of ore field guardians you need weapons that work against them, even if you don't intend to fight them.  There are also various other mobs that take reduced damage from energy, same can be said for impact & explosive.

 

Different mobs have different resistances to different types of damage, so there should be different weapons used.  If anything if you want to dethrone plasma as the king of damage types, you need more mobs that are resistant or immune to plasma, or more mobs that are vulnerable to energy, impact, or explosive.  Mobs can be vulnerable, take normal damage, resistant, immune, or even healed by particular types of damage depending on their deflects.

 

Ideally a Jenquai character should have 2 sets of beams, one for using energy & another for using plasma, and switch based on mobs' resistances.  Progen and Terran characters often can use more than one type of ammo for their weapons and should tend to switch ammo based on mobs' resistances or who they're teamed up with.

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