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Guild Raid Rotation Change Suggestion


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Now lets see if a simple skunk understands this whole mess:

1. In the beginning there was anarchy anyone who could raid did it as they saw fit.

2. The big guilds got together and came to an arrangement of some sort. Which as it happened had nothing to do with the devs as they had made it clear that they will not be part of this.

3. Another guild has gotten big enough to enter the rotation, yet due to the inherent complexity of the system they just can't walk in and claim their place in the rotation.

4. In order to keep the peace the guilds already in the rotation need to figure out a way to fit the new guys in.

 

So did I miss something?

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I think it's time the non guild leaders stop posting nonsense and stupidity in this thread..

 

How's about nobody below admiral rank can post in this thread?

 

Agreed. ( Although I'm not an admiral!)

Now lets see if a simple skunk understands this whole mess:

1. In the beginning there was anarchy anyone who could raid did it as they saw fit.

2. The big guilds got together and came to an arrangement of some sort. Which as it happened had nothing to do with the devs as they had made it clear that they will not be part of this.

3. Another guild has gotten big enough to enter the rotation, yet due to the inherent complexity of the system they just can't walk in and claim their place in the rotation.

4. In order to keep the peace the guilds already in the rotation need to figure out a way to fit the new guys in.

 

So did I miss something?

Yes. ( jk Skunky you are fairly close!)

 

Static will make time this week to speak with EG leadership. Myself, another officer or one of the admirals will PM you or maybe just try and catch up on TS!

Edited by Nicodemus
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 I just don't understand why anyone would "want" to be in the Rotation.  The Rotation isn't a desirable commodity.  It is a rule that prevents you from freely raiding anything you want on the server.  Anyone outside the Rotation has free rein to raid when and where they want.  Why would they want to change that?  You become able to raid; you raid everything whenever you want.  When you become such a big pain in the butt for the groups in the rotation that they “invite” you to join the rotation to "limit" your raiding, you lose your raiding freedom.  It isn't an "honor" to be in the rotation, it is a punishment for raiding so much that other people want to control you.  We know the Rotation is a good/bad proposition.  It helps and hurts at the same time.  But, if you are that perfect size to live outside the rotation, enjoy life while you can.  It will end soon enough and you will be forced you into submission.  The great thing about the Rotation is that if you are not in it, it's rules don't apply to you.

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 I just don't understand why anyone would "want" to be in the Rotation.  The Rotation isn't a desirable commodity.  It is a rule that prevents you from freely raiding anything you want on the server.  Anyone outside the Rotation has free rein to raid when and where they want.  Why would they want to change that?  You become able to raid; you raid everything whenever you want.  When you become such a big pain in the butt for the groups in the rotation that they “invite” you to join the rotation to "limit" your raiding, you lose your raiding freedom.  It isn't an "honor" to be in the rotation, it is a punishment for raiding so much that other people want to control you.  We know the Rotation is a good/bad proposition.  It helps and hurts at the same time.  But, if you are that perfect size to live outside the rotation, enjoy life while you can.  It will end soon enough and you will be forced you into submission.  The great thing about the Rotation is that if you are not in it, it's rules don't apply to you.

Then by all means, organize a group and do the raids... If you can do that then you are doing better than anyone else has in a long while.  The rotation is for the big guilds that raid routinely to keep from stepping on each other.  EG has entered "Big Guild" status and they want to raid regularly, this means entering the rotation.  Smaller guilds and individuals can't even pull off a simple gate raid regularly let alone one of these large raids...

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This has being going on long enough imo. Too long.

I applaud EG's restrain and patience on the matter.

I urge you to give EG its spot and be done with it, else statements like "everyone able to do the raids will be included into the rotation" are just hollow.

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Not sure what you mean "Fair or Foul?" But I can say that there is nothing unfair in supporting a nod to a guild for a place in the rotation when they can do the raid. We at VGE have let it be known that we are for EG getting their spot. Maybe it will bring back the spawns of GOBB and the Troller and the RD base. As it is right now, those raids have not spawned for at least the last 2 weeks, maybe 3? So there really is no rotation.

 

Why anyone would demand an apology and seek to keep a group of people out of the thing that settled a lot of differences would continue with the idea it is in someone's best interest is beyond me. Let's move this game forward and get the raids going again. This move to keep someone from playing the game by not allowing them a rotation spot is not in the best interest of anyone. The game has stalled and it is time to move it forward. The talks have gone on long enough. I see more talks as just a stalling technique.

 

What does anyone have to gain by not putting aside differences. I think this player base is by and large a mature audience so lets do the mature thing and get things moving.

 

These are my thoughts and not meant to offend anyone. I personally want a spitter and think that there are some others that would like to have one so........................... we know the road, let's take it.

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The implications drawn in that post, Ichi are that you have intimate knowledge that the raid spawns are indeed being 'held' back due to this situation? If this is the case, by all means, please bring this information to the proper folks in charge of this game so it can be remedied as that is a clear violation of all the rules set forth by these very same folks in the beginning.

 

If you are only insinuating that these spawns are effected based on the outcome of negotiations then may I offer you this lovely tinfoil hat?

 

I have stated many times on this thread that if you are not directly involved in these negotiations, then you should try to keep your chatter to a minimum as it will only serve to inflame an already sensitive issue. There are issues to be worked out and answers to questions that need to be taken care of in order to move these things forward.

 

You are pointing fingers and insinuating that that dev team and that all the players who don't agree with your stance is keeping you from your 'spitter'. There are many out there that do agree with the stance that has been taken. Perhaps you are keeping yourself from your 'spitter'? It is all a matter of perspective here.

 

I don't truly believe that these spawns are being hindered from the dev side of the game as that would not be professional and even though these fine folks are not paid, they are certainly professional enough to keep this game running and not let our game politics interfere with thier goals.

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I have no intimate information and the devs have stated they do not get involved so I doubt they would confirm or deny anything but I know tickets have been submitted and there is still nothing. Rocket science? no. You are in Static right?

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I am indeed in Static, as my signature indicates. But I fail to see the reason behind the question.

 

Simply stated, I do not agree that the devs are somehow manipulating the spawns. If you believe this, that is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. I only stated if you have knowledge to the contrary, then you should bring that information forward.

 

It would be a shame to continue to imply that things are happening for a specific reason when in fact they may be happening due to many other circumstances.

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I am indeed in Static, as my signature indicates. But I fail to see the reason behind the question.

 

Simply stated, I do not agree that the devs are somehow manipulating the spawns. If you believe this, that is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. I only stated if you have knowledge to the contrary, then you should bring that information forward.

 

It would be a shame to continue to imply that things are happening for a specific reason when in fact they may be happening due to many other circumstances.

a response of some kind.

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I have no intimate information and the devs have stated they do not get involved so I doubt they would confirm or deny anything but I know tickets have been submitted and there is still nothing. Rocket science? no. You are in Static right?

 

 

Simply stated, I do not agree that the devs are somehow manipulating the spawns. If you believe this, that is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. I only stated if you have knowledge to the contrary, then you should bring that information forward.

 

It would be a shame to continue to imply that things are happening for a specific reason when in fact they may be happening due to many other circumstances.

I have no knowledge of any Devs manipulating the raid trigger spawns and I do not know what circumstances are involved in the triggers not respawning after a crash.

 

I do know that the Devs have been notified about this occurrence, on at least two occasions:

 

https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/tracker/issue-1174-raid-triggers-not-surviving-server-crashrestarts/

https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/tracker/issue-1169-raid-spawns-since-the-server-crash/
 

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what is actually a shame is that this has not already been handled and EG should already be in the rotation.  wayyy back in this thread when it started are several posts from various people in the big three stating anyone who can get the people together can attempt any raid out there..     now we have another guild that can..  and we have all this stink about it,   should be pretty cut and dry in my opinion,    can they do the raid and accomplish it.  yes.  there is our answer.    we are all adults here (least most of us)  and should be able to share our toys...

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Lurker comment:

 

So you have a guild that is able and willing to gain access to the rotation.  The only thing I can see is that there needs to be some discussion of what one of the big 3 will give up their spot (initially) to get you in.  After that it sure do look like a no brainer.  

 

Be forewarned... Soon you will be labeled along the Big 3 as being evil and inflexible, and hogging all the good stuff.. 

 

Just saying

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Lurker comment:

 

So you have a guild that is able and willing to gain access to the rotation.  The only thing I can see is that there needs to be some discussion of what one of the big 3 will give up their spot (initially) to get you in.  After that it sure do look like a no brainer.  

 

Be forewarned... Soon you will be labeled along the Big 3 as being evil and inflexible, and hogging all the good stuff.. 

 

Just saying

Not all the detail of what is happen or being discussed here have been make public. Also Static is again advocating for a method of public raids.

Settle down and as Magoo stated earlier lets let the guild leader resolve this.

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Not all the detail of what is happen or being discussed here have been make public. Also Static is again advocating for a method of public raids.

Settle down and as Magoo stated earlier lets let the guild leader resolve this.

Sure no problem...Don't beat me massa ...I be promise to be good... "Magoo stated earlier lets let the guild leader resolve this" I didn't take that as the gospel but my bad...

 

Back to lurking......

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Read your posts very carefully people and ask your selves 3 questions

 

1) why are people mostly joining the big 3 going extremely inactive or leaving ?

2)Why is the player base so tiny ?

3) Why are updates now only monthly .

 

There is a answer if your honest and prepared to find it and its echoed in many of these posts.

 

And its the reason I stopped playing some time ago and many others have.

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Read your posts very carefully people and ask your selves 3 questions

 

1) why are people mostly joining the big 3 going extremely inactive or leaving ?

2)Why is the player base so tiny ?

3) Why are updates now only monthly .

 

There is a answer if your honest and prepared to find it and its echoed in many of these posts.

 

And its the reason I stopped playing some time ago and many others have.

Trying not to feed the troll, and sorry to the people who get emails on this thread but...

 

You and people like you are a major part of the problem.  So next time you want to be critical, look in the mirror... and GTFO..

 

Thanks.. have a nice life.. good riddance and all that..

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Rotation negotiations to date.

The offer tabled by Static was this:

The fourth week rotation slot would be a PUG (pick up group/public raid) rotation slot. This was offered on the basis of Epic Gamers stated desires to not only have the week, but be able to include the public in their rotation week if they wanted. They specifically stated they don’t always have manpower to do the raids and wished to include other guilds/public raiders to fill out their raids to ensure completion. Because of this statement, not only Static but other members of the rotation guilds believed this to be the best course of action to not only get Epic into the raiding, but also to get the public raiding and used to working together.

The rules were to be as follows:

Members from Static, VGE and BI would send officers/raiders to get these raiders into proper groups and give them the basic rundown of what happens with each raid and each wave. They would then loot for the raiders and conduct the loot lottery and ensure that the loot was fairly dispersed to the winners.  

There are certain rules of etiquette to be followed during raids and raiders will be filled in on those rules upon arrival. The membership of Static, VGE and BI would NOT be eligible to roll for any loot lottery as they all have their own guild weeks in which to get gear.

Any groups with empty slots that needed to be filled can/will be filled by available raid leaders but loot is still restricted to only non members of the ‘Big 3’.

These terms were agreed upon by all of the Static membership, and it was thought the other guilds also agreed upon this.


Static had learned there were still questions from the other guilds involved and in the interest of fairness while the negotiations were still being worked out Static offered to Co-Op all of our raids with Epic Gamers.

Static and Epic Gamers leadership both agreed to this working Co-Op with neither guild doing the raids without the membership from the other guild included in these raids.

VGE has also since made an agreement with Epic Gamers to Co-Op their raids until a resolution is met.


As some of you may, or may not be aware. The server had been having issues with stability so the raids had been essentially put on hold because of non spawning triggers and so forth. This was something that effected the entire rotation and no raids were being completed because of this.

The questions were put forth to the Devs to see if this issue could be resolved or if the raids were broken in general. Alurra, from Static received word that the triggers in BBW and Paramis were indeed up and waiting for raiders on 11/23 at roughly 8am EST. When membership went to check on these at approximately 10am EST neither of these ‘triggers’ were present, which presented a few problems as well as questions. It was unknown if the triggers were having issues as discussions with the other guilds showed that nobody had been raiding.

Messages and tickets were generated to ask the Devs to look into this to try and get some clarity of what was going on, but before any of those issues could be addressed, this appeared in the Market Chat channel.  
 
[attachment=2784:Goo_Sceenie-112313.png] (open for a larger readable version)

Canman, from Static, went to the Net7 teamspeak server to ask Magoo what that statement actually meant, and was answered with a rather profanity laced response that I shall not repeat here. It was quite clear that Magoo did not care at that point what happened in negotiations as he was determined to undermine and make Static out to be the devil no matter what we tried to accomplish.

Static has knowledge of Magoo repeatedly trying to undermine us and giving out half truths to suit his personal agenda as he stated himself in the above screenshot . When Static agreed to the current rotation our intentions were honest and integrity was maintained. That is a trait that is valuable to Static and we feel it should be valuable to ALL of the guilds involved in a rotation agreement. We do not question the honesty and integrity of VGE. We have many more questions now regarding the rest.

The only reason these things are being brought to light here and now are simple. The membership of Static has stood rather stoically and taken the abuse from members of other guilds and general membership of the server when it was not warranted nor called for. We have done things that we are not proud of, but then so have we all. We have been working diligently to solve the questions for Epic Gamers and get something together that is suitable for all, however it appears that no matter what Static does and says, there is going to be at least one guild leader in this rotation that is going to try and undermine everything.  If we cannot trust ALL of the guilds involved in the rotation to be fair and equitable and not childish, petty and vindictive it is going to make this entire process that much harder to accomplish than it should be.


Once a decision has been made on how Static wishes to proceed we will update this thread accordingly. Static membership will not engage others in a childish name calling, mud slinging internet fight. We are all adults, or so it is assumed let us behave as such.

To the membership of Builders Inc. Static does not hold you responsible for your leaders words or actions.

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My last post in this forum...sorry I was warned that it was for guild leads and officers only.  

 

BUT The Magoo bashing has to stop!!! 

 

I don't care what MT he or anyone oops into this channel or other, be an adult as you say we all are and take it to a private channel.  Forum moderator? How about a bit of moderation on these personal attacks?    

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