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Please bear in mind, we are not all L150


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  This is not intended to be a "suggestion", per se.. More of a reminder.  I've noticed a lot of attention being paid to what High level characters do (the so called "end game").  But we are not all in the end game.  One of the things that brought this to my mind was the l47 manes in mining fields, and specifically peoples responses to it (just take your 150 along, you should be CL40+ to mine there anyway, etc).   But another thing is that many of the missions in game REQUIRE you to have an alt (or friend, or guildie), do your quest for you (try soloing the L30 HU mission, or the TT shield build mission).  And another thing is that most of  the people who try to exploit the game (botting, etc) are in "the end game". So solutions, while possibly annoying to them, are many times worse to lower level players.  I'm doing Zekes mission for Duct tape. Requires l50, and L5 device build  (Which is TL 25).  That means 1/2 my Levels have to be trade at l50, and gee.. the other 1/2 (or more) would have to be EL's to be able to mine the L9 GRAIL WATER.  But, Now I need to have CL 40+ to go into those fields... Presto, we have just created a L50 mission, that requires you to be L90 minimum.  And, when I talk to guild people about group play (I am in 2 guilds), what I get is "Sure, get your toon to l150, and you can raid with us".  But there is so much more content, below that l150 "end game"... And I'm afraid that the actions of those in the end game, and the responses of the devs, are going to ruin the experience for everyone who is not there yet.

 

  Thanks, guess I needed to rant a little.

  Sevin dragoon

 

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It might coin a new term: ubercentrism (n.) 1. a bias towards player avatars that are more developed than others. 2. creating content in a game that favors higher tier avatars and neglects lower tier avatars. 3. referees ruling in favor of advanced game avatars over those still developing.


Forging new logophilia at NET-7 SOL, this is the Pakkrat. Edited by Pakkrat
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It is important to have content for all levels & all 9 classes.     Missions by profession are a good thing, whenever they're around.  When the maelstroms open, Merjan Kathrada & Vinda should offer missions to make keys.  Vinda should take PE and Scout, Merjan Kathrada should take JE & Scout.  Later universal keys could be made, and all 3 explorers could get the mission to make them.   Mazzaroth & Mondara should be L1 devices, while the Universal key could be L3.  Make them manufacturable, and reward the recipe to build them for explorers who do the necessary missions.   For the comps, pick a vendor comp, and 2 types of refined ore, perhaps a double refine.   They would be tradeable, so explorers who make Maelstrom keys can sell them to Traders & Warriors who wish to enter.   The Scout would be able to ultimately make all 3 keys, while the JE and PE get to make 2 of them.

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Thanks for the post/rant 7Dragoon, this is another fine example of past posts of mine in other threads. Agrippa tips thread  probably is 1/3 full of my complaints or highlites of problems :) with content either not being consistant or out of level, or even mobs AI dynamics having changed to the negative impact of past written content.

 

There are actually 3 problems highlighted here, and you have touched on it well.

 

1. There is a "end content bias" problem, there are a bunch of folks with 150 toons (I'm one of them). Sometimes folks concentrate and get tunnel vision with their L150 and forget what it took to get there in the first place (and yes some had easy mode with a guild or something/someone holding their hands getting there). Unfortunatly there are those that are so raid centric that all they worry about is the new and shiny and what it takes for them to get what they want and never consider what it's like for others, the other players are "on the way" to end content and the L150's can't be bothered by anything but what it takes for them to get their  new and shiny, this is selfish and sad.

 

2. Content written out of context, content is written with level or skills or requirements not truly taken into consideration, that L9 grail water in a L5 device, with a L50 mission that requires at least half your levels invested in a bar (of which there are 3 bars not 2) is a good example of a inbalanced content write. Like Agrippa with drops that are out of loot progression level or ingredients that are acquired out of appropriate skill tier.

 

3. Alterations to mob AI, loot table alterations, resource field modification, or resists/buffs etc. after the content write, negatively impacting that content, with no content revision added to take those changes into account. If I remember that duct tape one right, way back when, you got the L9 grail from the rip, It was one of those "doable" missions at the level, but it was a credit sink. The Agrippa has had problems added into already a intended difficult mission arc with mobs that when the content was added were hard with rudimentary AI and no resists, now the mob is smarter and resists the dmg you have access to, the content hasn't been revised to take into account the current state of the game rather the state it was when written.

 

I don't know what the solution to the 1st one is other than patience, just understand that there will be people with that tunnel vision, and if you are someone at L150 try and remember what it was like getting there "walk in their shoes" and lend a hand if you can, be patient on not getting the new shiny, this game isn't all about you but the whole community, their contnent needs to be addressed as well not just the few at the end stuff.

 

The only solution to #2 I see is CDevs taking great care when writing it, and when testing and tweeking it don't take the lazy, run it solo with a "at level toon" that would actually be doing it, without the advantages of foreknowledge or endless credits or another higher level toon to help or even WH etc., do it with the type of gear off the shelf that a player might actually have instead of all 200% stuff etc. I might suggest that content that you actually intend to be a forced group to do (BTW I detest forced group content) actually say "you will need a group to do this" right at the beginning of any mission arc. It's a real let down and frustrating to get 4 missions into a arc and find out that the last mission is going to need you to scrap up a bunch of people to do, tell people up front so they don't get in that deep and get the door slammed on them.

 

The solution to #3 I think is that CDevs will have to revise now and then their content they sweated and worked so hard over. As game dynamics change their great content unfortunately get effected, maybe a review now and then is in order to tweak the perimeters that have been altered. *remember, don't re-tweak with a L150 toon! Run it with a "at level" toon with all it's limitations.

 

When all is said and done, this game is fantastic! But even the every day needs a spring cleaning now and then...

 

Keep up the great work!

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There might be someone out there mining ores who could help you out with the ores you need. And guess what, that miner might even give them for free.

It's nuts right ?

See that's sort of the point....it's a mission they are supposed to be able to do at their level with their skills. Not some other miners ores, not some other miners credits, not some other miners skills. Even if the other miner was nice enough to help (which is great btw..helping hands are happy hands). It shouldn't be dependant on another miner doing so. It's the mission takers mission, not someone elses.

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Which is today's change is great example about loot tables... Mission of O'leinn giving Harpy's now.

 

Now only way left to get manufacturable non-uber sundari, blacksun items likes Roc's L7 even to be dismantle of L8, Chims L8 & L9etc. is raiding + luck on terminal...  

Edited by SiSL
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Switching it to a Harpy from a Roc, means the device is actually helpful with mining.  Long Tractor beam has no effect on mining, since range you can mine from is determined by your Prospect skill level.   Fast tractor beam, means shorter waits for the ores mined to be pulled in.  Perhaps those devices need to drop somewhere outside of raids if they're not already dropping elsewhere.

 

Buffs to the Prospect skill, via equipment, have no effect on range but they lower the energy & time required to pull any given ore.

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Switching it to a Harpy from a Roc, means the device is actually helpful with mining.  Long Tractor beam has no effect on mining, since range you can mine from is determined by your Prospect skill level.   Fast tractor beam, means shorter waits for the ores mined to be pulled in.  Perhaps those devices need to drop somewhere outside of raids if they're not already dropping elsewhere.

 

Buffs to the Prospect skill, via equipment, have no effect on range but they lower the energy & time required to pull any given ore.

 

I didn't mean change is incorrect... It is indeed correct they do that, but  I just meant only way to obtain Roc L7 is now gone for non-raiders...  Above L7 already nada... was merely pointing loot tables favoritism over items that has no-raid value status that drops from trash mobs...

Edited by SiSL
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See that's sort of the point....it's a mission they are supposed to be able to do at their level with their skills. Not some other miners ores, not some other miners credits, not some other miners skills. Even if the other miner was nice enough to help (which is great btw..helping hands are happy hands). It shouldn't be dependant on another miner doing so. It's the mission takers mission, not someone elses.

Merely a suggestion from an mmo point of view where you shouldnt have to depend only on yourself to progress. It wasnt meant as a boosting/ hand held suggestion, more so a *you are not alone*. As for what the mission was supposed to do, you doing it solo or instigate a multiplayer/character effect, you can really only guess, right ?

 

But quite frankly, lets just assume that everything you encounter in the game on any level of design is all a work in progress.

With constructive feedback and mature communication back and forth the game can be further developed and reach a whole new level of entertainment for everyone involved.

 

it's absolutely fine to raise a point about something you encounter and most likely also appreciated. Game developers arent Gods.

 

Sevin spoke of an issue he encountered and rightfully so.

Now it is up to everyone involved to get a mature and constructive dialog going and see where it might lead to. We could be amazed about what can be done perhaps.

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I didn't mean change is incorrect... It is indeed correct they do that, but  I just meant only way to obtain Roc L7 is now gone for non-raiders...  Above L7 already nada... was merely pointing loot tables favoritism over items that has no-raid value status that drops from trash mobs...

 

I actually agree there, raids shouldn't be the only way to obtain looted equipment of this nature, especially since this isn't even a L8 or L9 item and it would fall under the category of "good" or "desirable" without being awesome.  They should drop somewhere else, don't know if they do, but they might.   I do think that raids should have enough drops that everyone can get something worth their effort in a successful raid, but I'd agree on limiting those things that only drop in raids.   IMO most raids should drop a few truly awesome items, but more items that are good for their level. 

 

I don't have a problem with the good items, dropping more rarely outside of raids, when they first come out.  I do think that, over time, only the truly great & awesome items should stay "raid only" for their drops, when replacements for the "desirable" or "good" items come into the game, the replacements should go into the raids mostly, while being rare outside, while the items being replaced, should drop more commonly outside the raids. 

 

I do support the concept of items being mission rewards as well, with the nature of the reward tied to the nature and difficulty of the mission.  I'd love to see some items that can only be obtained by missions.  I also don't have a problem with say some missions for the Trade profession, where one of the traders can do but the other 2 cannot, or 2 out of 3.  Same applies to explorers & warriors.  Having some prints that you have to be a specific race/profession combination to get, is IMO, a good idea over time.

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Most of the missions I have written in the last six months (Progen ThemePark, Neptune, Leeroy Junkbins, Bogeril Hunting, Newbie Zones (especially TS and PW), and some other stuff) Are exactly the kind of content this thread screams for, and is something I take very seriously.

 

Future content will not all be 150+, I can promise you that. 

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I agree with most thats been pointed out in this thread.

Just as a side note there is nothing to prevent you from tackling most missions even when you're above their minimum level requirements.

You can easily get another 10 or 20 levels from the rest of the sub 150 content thats already out there and come back to this one.

It took me about 5 months to get my TS and TT to 150 and i've seldom done jobs but there are still missions out there that i haven't done yet.

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Ok, 2 follow ups...

1:) I got all 3 of my Progen to L75 recently... And rushed over to Nostrand vor to continue on Stage II of Agrippa.. But wait, I cant.. I need to be able to build level *8* items... Lets look at that math.. I'm L75, and I cant do it because? Oh yeah, !45! of my 75 levels aren't in trade... Silly me.. And, just to make things interesting, I have to get to L45 trade, to do Agrippa Stage II... Without getting my l100 Hull Upgrade...  But, my other problems are addressed (My PS, who wants to do agrippa, and be a miner), by telling me that my toon should be "balanced".  Ok, let me get this straight.. I would have NO Mining problems if my L75 PS had been 25/25/25... Never mind that he would only then qualify for L I Agrippa.  But also, upon reaching l75, he should have 45 points in trade.. pick a story. 

 

2:) I would love to be able to buy and analyze L6 items from Drostan McClure.  My JT is Level 104, has good RD faction, and has the tails in his vault.  But Kaitya Neely will not talk to him.  Asking in Market, I was told that you have to be L150, to get that mission.  So whats the point (other than "ubercentrism" [Thanks Packratt]), in "oh no, you must be l150 to get those LEVEL SIX items".

 

  No, I'm not doritoed.. just steaming

       Sevin dragoon

Edited by 7dragoon
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Regarding 1:  Youd have to talk to Byakhee about it, we dont touch agrippa without him being involved, its both courtesy and saving a big headache with the logic (if you think agrippa is complex for a player, imagine how bad it is for a dev to go through it)

 

Regarding 2:  Your market friend was wholly incorrect.  OL80 CL35 (the mobs for the charon monster tails are level 40, so its a reasonable requirement).  Im gonna assume your Jenquai isnt combat level 35 yet. 

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Thank you, Stanig! 

A: for your clear reply on #2.. I now know what to work towards, and yes, I need 4 CL's. 

B: for pointing out that you don't mess with another developers work. Wouldn't expect it, but would love to hear his reasoning at some point.

C: OL 80 / CL 35 ? 45 points split between TL & EL?  My Beams would fire great... Once.

 

  You guys get it right 75% or more of the time, which A: makes us expect more of the same, and B: makes the times We "Think" you goofed, even more painful..

  Sevin dragoon

Edited by 7dragoon
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I was wondering whether a topic like this was present.

 

I've recently jumped into the game, trying to relive the old fun I had on my Jenquai Explorer.  There is an...Issue with the beginning area and the Dionysian Spore Nodules that seem to be stacked on the nav beacon.

 

Perhaps it's just me, but this third leg of the tutorial missions seems...Particularly unforgiving.  Those spores are significantly more hazardous than anything else in the area - to the point that the mission around the area is on a soft timer to disengage the second one of them looks at you.  Given the archaic navigation to boot, this makes for a very frustrating opening experience.

 

Edit:

 

Just an amendment.  I'm cognizant of the explorer's limitations and shortcomings in combat, in general for this class. It's supposed to be rough, I know.  The focus is on the pacing.  This is a bit of a brick wall to hit for a tutorial mission that places no particular emphasis on this hazard, given the objectives.

Edited by Alkirin
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