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HellHasArrived

Self Destruct.

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Was it really necessary to make self destruct utterly useless? My PW used it as an RTB, which is basically all the skill was used for. Not exactly a game breaker if you ask me.

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This skill as it is now, post patch, closely reflects what the skill was in original live.  We knew this would cause a bit of a stir with people who used it for the purpose you speak of, which was never how the skill actually worked.

 

If anyone believes different, I would more than gladly accept documentation proving it wrong, but we have numerous pieces of evidence that this is how it was, including original patch notes from EA's live game.

 

The fact is the PW RTB took away from a JD unique skill, and gave PW an unintended benefit with a skill never designed to work the way it was in the emulator.  That being said, we did up the damage and changed it to an absolute value, no deflects or resistances apply to it. 

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So if uniqueness is so important and not to step on other classes. 

 

Why can any class turn in genemaps?  Why does the Mark of the Dragon ruin the UNIQUENESS of the DSA?  Why do the Manes compressors not work so ANY class can loot the level 6 manes essence for the OCD?  

 

All these things were UNIQUE to the PS and all other classes now can do it.  Why were these not protected.

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How I see it now is you self destruct and you can't do squat for a few minutes unless you log in and out. Makes a lot of sense. The one useful side of the skill removed. Thank you.

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You think im afraid to field these Iceminer?

 

Ok lets go.

 

Genemap turn ins.  In before I became a developer on this project.  Progen space is my primary focus.  If you have EVIDENCE this was a PS only thing, by all means please show me and we can review it at the next dev meeting.

 

Mark of the Dragon:  Not my content, nor did I have anything to do with the approval of this item.  Additionally it does not outclass the DSA, the buffs to both are different.  No profession can use the DSA but the sentinel, to this day.

 

Manes Essences:  You want to set it up?  Rush me a little more, IM WORKING ON IT ACTUALLY.  The problem is there are about 20 things that need done and tested and god forbid I dont live my life on here.  That and some former devs have already tried to recreate the missions/turn ins/items and the work is spread all over the place.  This has been on my radar for quite a long time as a project I meant to have done before the next major content patch (or part of it).

 

 

Any more?

 

 

Just so sleven doesnt feel left out like I ignored him, which I never ignore anyone:  I cant release items in the dev only area without approval from a lead dev, due to conflicts in the past.  You can google plenty though and find similar things.  We have things very very few ever had though.  You can take that up with David or Kyp if youd like, I cant break protocol on that.

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Also how I see it, Self destruct took nothing away from the JD's skill. JD can still RTB anyone in group. The PW was just sending themselves back to base. Also I'd love to see this evidence contrary of the way it was before it was changed.

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as for the DSA/Mark.. they are the same buff.  The DSA is 8% and the Mark is 10%.  And if you use a DSA on somebody with the Mark buff it will replace the buff and drop their cap 2%.

 

Thank you for your work.. not knocking you as I know alot was dropped in your lap on this.  Only bought up the genemaps.

 

I have no evidence of the genemaps, but I think anybody that played a Sentinal in live (like myslef) can remember every class in the game handing me genemaps to turn in, as they were useless to anybody but a PS.   Can anybody else back me up on this?

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Thats how you see it, and I see it as a flat out exploit of a broken skill.  Sorry if that makes you upset, it wasnt working right.  JD is the only profession with an RTB skill and SD in original live never gave you a tow option.  Period.

 

Like I said, you want some evidence, take it up with my boss.  I told you its there, its up to them to provide it.

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Ice its not really about backup, i cant change something in game based on "what we each remember"  god if we did that everything would be different.  Thats why i ask for hard cold documentation, cant argue with it, its right there.  Know what I mean?  If I had that, I could make a solid case bud.

 

And im only slightly irritated by the implied tone, forgive me if i took it wrong.  Like I said, the DSA isnt even something I had anything to do with, and I do feel some of these new fangled items are a bit over the top.  But thats all ongoing balance.  I dont necessarily agree or disagree with you, but I do know a lot of the profession only lines were blurred a bit (not happy about waking nightmare on a personal note... kinda makes the plagues bite a little less of a prize for warriors, etc).

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Oh wow Stanig thanks for the laugh... I'm done with my two cents.

So be done.  Its a fine line to walk when you have one half of the playerbase clamoring to get things as close to westwood live as is humanly possible, and the other does all it can to tear down everything just because its "inconvenient" for how they have played the emulator thus far.

 

Sorry bro, nothing more I can do, besides what I already said.  Im not going to break my own non disclosure rules just because you dont want to accept my word on anything, because im just a liar, right?  Id "nerf" my favorite profession on a whim, is that it?

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Well I don't have physical proof....and my memory sometimes plays a trick or two. But someone that was prebeta to sunset and practicly lived more on the game than RL might remember something right....but here goes:

 

SD never had a RTB function in Old Live (tm)...never.

 

The only RTB it had was a actual true tow. You had to be incapped and take a tow, not a fake incap.

 

When you punched SD it had a count down of 10 and actually started showing numbers over your ship starting at 8, most but certainly not all mobs tried to scramble away from you and get out of the blast radius. (any mob that had enrage on them usually didn't run) They did not stop firing at you as they fled if they had none directional fire (i.e. missles, shield inversion etc.).

 

The SD was cancelable by pressing the button a second time, but was subject to a 1 minute CD timer to re-engage.

 

You did not have to remain stationary to activate it, but you became immobile after it exploded. It reduced your reactor and your shield to zero, but not any hull you had prior to explosion, so if you activated it with full hull, you still had full hull after engaging it (minus any DoT or none direction fire you were taking at the time of activation.)

 

It did not immobilize you the full 60 sec. they are now putting in, it was actually half the re-engage CD...i.e. 30 sec. and after the 30 sec. your reactor/shield began recharging at its normal rate established prior to the SD activation. (i.e. buffs didn't wipe)

 

The damage dished out was a static amount per level + random bonus amount (based on the pool of your reactor) and could crit a mob. The damage dished out increased with ea level and also had a larger radius at upper tiers (most of those mobs running could get out of low tier range, but unless they were real fast they didn't get out of upper tier range.

 

Now about Now Live (tm), it has been repeatedly said that "this isn't old live, we will do what we think works better if we feel the need". If this change is somehow trying to be true to Old Live (tm), that argument don't fly due to past statements and stances. However, I personally don't have a problem if this is the new "balance" they feel is needed to preserve a JD only skill for New Live (tm), just don't use the "this is the way it was" argument, that flies in the face of past decisions and hypocritical.

 

Which leads to the PS stuff...Old Live (tm) if you ARE actually trying to preserve it as it was long ago....

 

PS unique stuff, you can't say you are preserving a JD only thing and then say PS don't get PS only stuff. (well you can, but then that's a mixed back of crap your asking folks to eat isn't it? )

 

PS were the only ones that could turn in gene maps to the repository. The maps paid good money to the PS and gave them sabine rep as well. They didn't get XP for them, they got credits/faction. The upper end ones were in the millions of credit ea. The L8 was 2m credits and the L9 was even more. This was a item for story line and to help PS offset their ammo problem. PS can't build their ammo, however they go through copious amounts of ammo, especially at the upper end. Since they couldn't build their own ammo, they had to beg others to build it for them. The gene maps having to go through them to be cashed in gave them a in with ammo builders, most often if the PS supplied his ammo parts (or ores for PM comps) the builders would engage in quid pro quo, ill eat the button costs on the ammo, if you go trade in my gene maps for me and give me the proceeds. It worked.

 

PS still have to beg ammo builds, now TS do also, however TS have negotiate to offset their enitial costs of comps, PS don't. The gene maps have been dumbed down currently, and everybody and his sister can trade them in for a bit of centriata and sabine rep, xp and credits. The credit return is paltry currently, the gene maps never gave centriata nor xp.

 

The PS were the only ones that could loot manes essence, they were the only ones that could fit concentrators and refiners as well, to step up the level of the essence. Currently  (just like the gene maps) everybody and their cousin can loot it, nobody can concentrate it. While everyone could see the essence in a manes corpse, only the PS could pull it. All the upper tier mining devices and distillers the PS had access to, had essence and refined essence in their device recipe. So, nobody can manufacture a distiller, since they can't refine the essence to build it with.

 

There was storyline and missions for PS concerning the essence, it was a side line of them exploring and improving the progen genome.

 

If the new party line is, that we need to stay true to the PW SD skill of old, to preserve JD uniqueness, then kindly do the same for other classes, be true to their uniqueness as well and restore their niche of functionality, return the PS only gene maps, restore the PS only essence gathering!

 

JE would like to have their  unique compulsory contemplation.....

 

/my 4 cents (inflation you know :))

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as for the DSA/Mark.. they are the same buff.  The DSA is 8% and the Mark is 10%.  And if you use a DSA on somebody with the Mark buff it will replace the buff and drop their cap 2%.

 

Thank you for your work.. not knocking you as I know alot was dropped in your lap on this.  Only bought up the genemaps.

 

I have no evidence of the genemaps, but I think anybody that played a Sentinal in live (like myslef) can remember every class in the game handing me genemaps to turn in, as they were useless to anybody but a PS.   Can anybody else back me up on this?

The PS was the only class that could return genemaps in live, iirc one got factions and money for them, higher level ones gace a lot of money, remember sums being over 1 mil for lvl 8s and 9s. This I am 99% sure of.

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Hi

 

I think all the proof required is in the description of the Gene-maps themselves.

 

Riia

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Riia, keeper of documentation(tm)

 

 

Will be brought up on Sunday. 

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as for the DSA/Mark.. they are the same buff.  The DSA is 8% and the Mark is 10%.  And if you use a DSA on somebody with the Mark buff it will replace the buff and drop their cap 2%.

 

Thank you for your work.. not knocking you as I know alot was dropped in your lap on this.  Only bought up the genemaps.

 

I have no evidence of the genemaps, but I think anybody that played a Sentinal in live (like myslef) can remember every class in the game handing me genemaps to turn in, as they were useless to anybody but a PS.   Can anybody else back me up on this?

 

That I agree on, I used to give mine to Phrantik in EnB Origins, later to Kashif.  Unfortunately I don't have screenies on that one.  They were otherwise useless to me as a JE, since the repository would only take them from a PE, and no vendor would accept them.  It was also something that likely cost a JE or two their Loony's Special Gizmoblatsit, since they looked exactly the same and if the JE was not paying attention they could end up destroying a useful and irreplacable device.

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Though i never played a progen i remember SD not being another rtb for its user, but its exact function eludes me.

I also can confirm that gene maps where only returnable by a PS to repository and that manes essence could only be looted and processed by a PS.

Yes Progen Sentinels need some loving and adding constant shield recharge, like it was in westwood live,  will make the game worthwhile for them and make a host of devices useful again. Alas i fear the amount of work and balancing that should be involved with that will possibly not make it feasible to implement.

And like stanig is not happy about the nightmare device i'm also not happy about the NOS that i consider a game balance changer but i guess removing it now would have to lead to a lot of fine tuning of mobs speed characteristics.

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I do remember having to actually "mine" the Manes Essence from the Manes corpse. This could be a reason why the refining devices aren't working properly. I'm not 100% but fairly sure the JE could also mine the essence as well but couldn't equip the refining devices.

 

But back on topic I happen to like the SD change. I think Valeriya will be using it more this iteration.

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JE couldn't pull it, they could see it, so could everyone else. The mine effect you remember was if PS were refining or distilling it (I.E. stepping up the essence lvl), pulling it without doing that was a instant looting, refine/distill just added a second or so to the loot, it didn't use reactor or get disrupted when moving or taking a mobs hit.

 

I remember when my guild was getting set to do the linked RD in inverness for feathers etc. They were killing the manes at hasters point and the corpses were piling up while we waited for group assembly, they asked my little PS in to clean out all the essence and refine it for them for their alt PS's to use. It was a good source of trade xp and explore xp when refining essence.

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JE couldn't pull it, they could see it, so could everyone else. The mine effect you remember was if PS were refining or distilling it (I.E. stepping up the essence lvl), pulling it without doing that was a instant looting, refine/distill just added a second or so to the loot, it didn't use reactor or get disrupted when moving or taking a mobs hit.

 

I remember when my guild was getting set to do the linked RD in inverness for feathers etc. They were killing the manes at hasters point and the corpses were piling up while we waited for group assembly, they asked my little PS in to clean out all the essence and refine it for them for their alt PS's to use. It was a good source of trade xp and explore xp when refining essence.

 

I'd be cool with it going back to that way for Manes' essence.  In due time, give the other 2 explorers something of value that they each have exclusive access to in return.  I do think it's good for the 3 explorers to be further differentiated.    I do think that content wise, there should be incentives to pick a PE over a JE/TE, or a JE over a PE/TE, or a TE over a JE/PE.  Over time the same should apply to the TT/PT/JT, and the PW/JW/TW. (Race/Profession abbreviations used where E = Explorer, W = Warrior, and T = Trader). 

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I'd be cool with it going back to that way for Manes' essence.  In due time, give the other 2 explorers something of value that they each have exclusive access to in return.  I do think it's good for the 3 explorers to be further differentiated.    I do think that content wise, there should be incentives to pick a PE over a JE/TE, or a JE over a PE/TE, or a TE over a JE/PE.  Over time the same should apply to the TT/PT/JT, and the PW/JW/TW. (Race/Profession abbreviations used where E = Explorer, W = Warrior, and T = Trader). 

Right now the only thing to recommend a PS over a TS/JE is Call Forward. Everything else that a PS does explorer wise can either be done by another, even done better. The other 2 explorers have something(s) that most select over a PS..I mean WH, who don't want a WH explorer that don't need ammo and can cloak? :) TS..who don't feel the need for speed or the most efficient exchange rate of refining/trading? who wouldn't like to kite mobs when they are to buff? lol

 

Putting just those 2 things in: essence and gene maps as they were would really help..and if the content concerning maps/essence should be added/expanded that would really be a boon. Running a PS solo (without alts/multies) to support is near impossible, the ammo costs alone make it hugely hard, that's what the gene map reward was really about, covering expenses of being a PS. Further tightening the TT to a PS was the need for essence of various levels in builds (like profiler device for instance)

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Right now the only thing to recommend a PS over a TS/JE is Call Forward. Everything else that a PS does explorer wise can either be done by another, even done better. The other 2 explorers have something(s) that most select over a PS..I mean WH, who don't want a WH explorer that don't need ammo and can cloak? :) TS..who don't feel the need for speed or the most efficient exchange rate of refining/trading? who wouldn't like to kite mobs when they are to buff? lol

 

Putting just those 2 things in: essence and gene maps as they were would really help..and if the content concerning maps/essence should be added/expanded that would really be a boon. Running a PS solo (without alts/multies) to support is near impossible, the ammo costs alone make it hugely hard, that's what the gene map reward was really about, covering expenses of being a PS. Further tightening the TT to a PS was the need for essence of various levels in builds (like profiler device for instance)

 

I'm cool with that, where some components require ores that only a PE can provide, like refined manes essence.  Over time I'd add similar things that could only be provided by each of the other two explorers.  Over time, I'd like to see some recipes be class specific.  Say some new weapon that's useful, but if you want it to built you have to get a JT to do it, others where you need a TT, and still others that can only be built by a PT.   Even if those are weapons where the Trader doesn't use it personally, but can sell the weapon to others.  As far as I know, the only way to do that is have some specific missions that are TT, PT, or JT Only that reward the print for the weapon.  If the weapon also requires ammo, the trader doing the mission gets the print for the ammo, but the ammo itself drops off various mobs, while the weapon doesn't.  I would, over time, like that applied to other equipment as well.

 

I do think that the PE is a bit of the red-headed stepchild of the explorers, where mining is concerned.  Scouts with max NF field are immune to gravity wells and all effects.  JE's with L3 or higher Environment shield are immune to all effects, but not gravity wells.  We need max Navigate to have a 50% chance of warping through, but it doesn't allow us to warp through gravity shear.  E-shield does; however, protect from gravity shear damage, same as it did in EnB Origins.  PE does get one advantage, and that is that they're much better at stomping the orefield guardians quickly, but since they're the fighting explorer, they should be best at that.  IIRC the PE was the least popular class in EnB Origins.

 

I do think that when the MCP comes out, one of the rewards should be the Archos threader like in live, but I also think that there should be one for the Scouts using Zet ammo.   The JE got the Gaze of Amah, which was a rather good manufacturable (by JE) plasma beam, but was no-trade, required plenty of mining to get the necessary passes, a maxed build skill, and BBW access for one of the parts.  IMO this beam was quite worth the effort, and it having the same duration between shots as other beams, was a nice benefit.  Even the new MtL beam from EnB Emulator has the same delay as the Gaze of Amah.

 

Those types of things in the future for all explorers, would be good mining content.  Perhaps the Progen shouldn't be the only race with such projects.  I think, but am not sure, there were also an L8 beam that was usable by all explorers that was an MCP reward, but I never sought that one with a JE. 

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