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Building 1000's of low level weapons to increase quality

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Several people have commented online that they are building between 2000-3000 low level weapons like beams or crossbows in order to make their build quality much better for the highest level items.  To do this requires a substantial outlay of credits (9-10M) since many stacks of comps will need to be purchased.  Is there any way that my progress (build quality) can be monitored so I might be able to purchase just enough comps to acquire the desired quality goal?  I know that I can monitor the number of the items I have made through the Net-7 database, but how can I tell if its affecting my overall build abilities for everything else?

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No one else can see exactly how it is affecting their build quality, why should you.  You are trying to circumvent the 'natural' play of the game.  Do you really expect them to make it easy for you do to so?

 

Posts like this are helpful to the devs because they can easily see how people are using the game mechanics in unintended ways and allows them to adjust the mechanics.  (I tried very hard to not use the word 'Exploit')

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Oh we are well aware of it, at least I have been for some time.  Personally I dont think its right to be able to do it this way, but we will have to see if anything changes as time goes on.  It might.

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Posts like this are helpful to the devs because they can easily see how people are using the game mechanics in unintended ways and allows them to adjust the mechanics.  (I tried very hard to not use the word 'Exploit')

 

It wouldn't qualify has being a real exploit if you get nothign free out of it :) Players are clearly welling to earn that extra build increase to evolve into a more advanced builder kinda like role playing. Thus they choose to blow money and time to make better builds. Where as the option to loot temrinal controllers to increase builds and analyzing stuff already exist in game there for a player can choose how he goes about building things still in the long run. Thats what the devs want us to always have some kind of alternative choice in game I figured. :) Now im not rich by far but for now I just use temrinal controllers and devices to help my buiild increase as intended. :P

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How about having builds work in such a way that building experience only helps items of the same level or lower?

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No one else can see exactly how it is affecting their build quality, why should you.  You are trying to circumvent the 'natural' play of the game.  Do you really expect them to make it easy for you do to so?

 

Posts like this are helpful to the devs because they can easily see how people are using the game mechanics in unintended ways and allows them to adjust the mechanics.  (I tried very hard to not use the word 'Exploit')

OK, Genghis Bob .. first of all, this was an honest question about the possibility of gaining "experience" in building items to gain greater quality.  I asked a question .. A QUESTION .. usually a question is followed by ANSWERS .. not some judgement based on some ridiculous notion that someone is exploiting anything.  How does one gain better manufacturing quality if they don't get recipes and make things?  It seems to me that the more things you make, the better you get at it.    

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I really do not see the problem, if a builder wants to invest loads of money and TIME (takes 4ever to produce this) to gain the qualityboost all at once or by doing it slowly by selling to players it doesn't really matter, it is the same for all players. If one wants to achieve it go do it, plain and simple.

 

If it is not intended I am sure the DEVs will come up with a way to correct it in a way that will please both players that already have the ability and those that doesn't have it.

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Whoa whoa Exploit?

The way the builds are calculated make it very very hard to get your builds % up.

If I build 7 items at a time at a L7 build and the build percentages increase each time I build

1 item WHILE i'm at the Terminal.

 

Then when I return to the Terminal with more credits to increase my build Percentafes, The Build Percentages SHOULD be at the High end of the Build Percentage average and OUTCOME when I left the Terminal.

 

It is currently being reset to the time I first started my Attempted Upping my Build Percentages.

IMHO Thats Not right.

 

IMO, What should be happening is If You build something, I don't care what or at What level and You get Trade XP From that build or Builds, Your Build Percentage should go up in increments of .25 to .50 %. Per level (Thats 1/4 to 1/2 percentage point for each build).

 

Also when you level your Trade XP, your Build Percentage should have a measureable increase of 3% of your CURRENT Building percenages.

And when you return to the Build terminal Your Build Percentage is EXACTLY where you left it !

 

With respect.

If your saying that building 1000-2000 low level items is an exploit I say your wrong.

I see it as getting 1/100th of a Build percentage increase and a Huge lose of credits.

Such a low level in build percentage would not registar as XP.  .001 Trade XP earned

 

When the Increased Build-To-Factioned group (Grouped with Traders) is working and if you

build at your home sector Base (Jupiter, Earth and Mars) you get a better Percentage.

Things, I HOPE will get better.

 

I just started trying to increase my Build % and its a Bitch and expensive.

  • Upvote 1

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I'm confused. Is it considered an exploit for a Trader (Warrior) to build (kill) stuff to increase their quality(level) ? If so then what is an acceptable method to use to attain these goals? Or should the rest of the player base accept that 200% quality is extremely rare?

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Actually it's not an exploit as it's part of the current game metrix, I actually cannot stand the word "exploit" since it's entirely over used,especially in this game. I feel and exploit is using something that is not supposed to be in the game design or using a work around that isn't supposed to happen. The building design the Dev's chose to implement is why this particular issue has occurred, so in my opinion not an exploit just a normal part of the game.

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It seems natural that practice makes perfect, or better results anyway like in real life, the more you learn and the more you make of an item the better quality you can expect so I don't see an exploit here.

Now the real issue might be that its not consistent, each time you hit the item to be built you get a different expected quality as somebody pointed out to me the other day and that might need a little work.

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I said that I did NOT use the word exploit.  I said game mechanic.  However, it seems slightly unnatural that building 1,000 level 2 engines would increase your level 9 weapons build percentage.

 

That said, this is a game.  All games decide what parameters they want to set.  You can NEVER simulate real life in evey aspect.  The game designers have to decide what they want to simulate and to what detail.  It is easy to understand a decision to limit the simulation granularity on build skills and quality.  A game cannot do everything.

 

In other words, I think it is fine the way it is. 

 

But, I don't see the devs making it easier to monitor your overall build abilities for other items.

Edited by GenghisBob

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Well I can see a way that building 1k of L2 should translate to being better at L9 of something, it's called tech progression, they didn't start making prius or hummers in the early 20's, they build lots and lots of model A's and model T's in Mr. Ford's factories before they learned how to make ever better cars, more power, more speed, better gas mileage, more creature comforts, even safety..all of these evolved from building lots and lots of lesser tech items.

 

So L9 weapons shouldn't be effected by L2 engines skill building? You do know that lots of those parts in engines (like bolts and rivets and heat dispersment tech etc etc.) are also used in weapons right? Why shouldn't the knowledge gained from perfecting just how you build a superb engine not translate into making a better anything? Many of the tech gadgets we use today and take for granted were tech progression and spinoff from the space program...we made better rockets...why not better cell phones? We made better ceramic heat tiles, why not better space heaters?

 

No building lots of L2 things SHOULD translate into build better higher level of anything, it's SKILL you are advancing, technical knowledge and the processes involved. Yes, perhaps it should be in smaller increments of skill gained for lower level items and a greater skill gained for higher items built, but the end result should be the same, anything built should have a cumulative greater knowledge towards better builds.

 

When the first cave man lite a fire, he started us on the eventual path to stars. Would you discount his discovery of fire as minor, if so, then by all means go get a club and toss on some moth eaten skins, crawl into some cave, forgoing all your current modern wonders, since fire don;t count towards technilogcal advances in your book (oh wait...books weren't invented yet..better make that mud drawing on cave wall :)).

  • Upvote 2

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I definitely don't consider building 2k low level items to increase your build % an exploit but the way i see it is working the system as opposed working through the system like i have done for myself. I also got the satisfaction that i haven't made that initial cash investment for the builds.

You could spend an afternoon or a day, don't really know the time it would take you to build 2k xbows, and get perfect builds along with Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and a new mouse for all i care.

I prefer to build for my guild and on market whenever i can and see the progression that is being made in every build i make. I take great satisfaction and a sense of accomplishment  when my Terran Advantage 9 or Archos can get to 200% now using the same comps when in the past i could only make them 160ish in quality.

Sure it took me 5 months to reach the same outcome you got in a day but what actually makes me smile is that i have people for whom i built come back for more or recommending me to their friends and family for their needs while we can have a nice conversation about the weather or possible equipment load outs.

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If you build 200 Billion fires in a cave your next step will not be a successful Moon landing.

 

Just because there are metal parts in a low level engine and a level 9 beam does not mean you can build two thousand engines and expect your very first Devastating Gaze will be 200%.

 

But, it is still a game.  Every tiny thing that is done does not need to be done to great detail.  Allowing builds in general to raise your build skills is fine.  Just like they gloss over fuel requirements and starting/stopping/turning in space.  It really wouldn't be fun to spend 1/2 hour docking.

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If you build 200 Billion fires in a cave your next step will not be a successful Moon landing.

Are you sure? 

 

Most complex engineering is based on thought made on much simple stuff...

 

You should watch Engineering Connection on Nat Geo ;)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li6br_x3NBk

Edited by SiSL

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No fire, no moon landing.

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I think the current system is very good. I don't mind if building low level items helps you build higher level items of higher quality. It would be even better if it were capped though, so you can only get so far building lower level items. I think all item levels should influence each other, so to get top quality gear, you have to build many items of many different levels.

 

If I were to design such a system, I would use a half rule. The contribution to build quality gets cut in half for each level removed from the current one. Since the system is set up with prices about doubling for each level, this would mean that it would cost you roughly the same to raise quality by building many low level items as not so may higher level items. Building higher level items to improve quality on lower level builds would dig into your credits though, since they would only give half the benefit at double the price for each over-level.
I would also make it so for each % build quality you want to gain, you would need to build twice as many items as the % before. This would encourage people to build at many different levels.

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Why not make it lvl depended, build a lvl 1, get 1 point towards you master builder status, build a lvl 9, get 9 points added, simple NO!

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The previous post has a better solution, IMHO.  You halve the effectiveness of the build for each level removed from lv9. so it is 2^^-7 and it would take 128 lv2 builds to accomplish the same as a lv9 build.  Whoever choose this method would indeed get Carpel Tunnel Syndrome and would also need to replace the mouse!!!

Edited by VincentTH

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I have some code in the server since 2 weeks addressing this - it's just not active yet (commented out)....yet.

 

If you guys are saying that the so called "foreign build levels" should affect the builds 3+levels higher only in a capped and limited way, i just need to remove 4 characters in the code and it's life....

Up to you.

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Zack, so the current way is that a lv2 build has the same effect as a lv9 build?  If so, my vote is to change it the way Knix posted in #18 (the halve rule)

 

 

 

https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/8721-building-1000s-of-low-level-weapons-to-increase-quality/#entry75236

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No Vince....without going into detail, a L2 build is not affecting the overall build quality in the same way like a "same level build".

 

The currently commented code in the server is almost a system like Knix suggested, tho its not "static", it's more dynamic with the diff. build levels because building 100 items at L1 is not the same like building 100 items at L4 (build costs, components etc).

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Ah, thanks, if it makes the game better, my vote is for enabling the commented out codes.

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if it makes the game better

 

:lol:  :lol:

 

IT'S A TRAP!!

 

 

("Better"...very subjective...)

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