Jump to content

Building 1000's of low level weapons to increase quality


Saurron

Recommended Posts

Yeah..... Grew up in Flint and Detroit Michigan with auto workers in my family.....  So yeaaah.  Oh person can have years of experience, and still be worthless if  Line completely changes.  Which is why they started switching to robots.  Speaking of which, by the time period in game everything would be machine automated, other than feeding the parts an blueprint into the system. 

 

Either way though, they took something that wasn't broken to begin with, and effectively broke it, because apparently someone felt that 200% should be rare.  Especially at the higher levels.  The current situation effectively kills the player made component market at lower levels, as if you can't get a 200% build with them, why bother using them, unless you're multi boxing and supplying your own ores and comps.  Same goes with the whole, everyone using plasma weapons thing. 

 

Valid points, I agree with you.  The main reason that plasma weapons are often used, especially against biological mobs, is that they give a bonus against shields.  (Chemical is stronger against hulls)   Plasma is also the only damage type, as far as I know, that is shared between all weapon types.  (some beams, some PLs, and some MLs can use this damage type, though not all of them)  None of the other types are covered by all weapons, as far as I can tell.  Bringing along a Jenquai also helps since we get the Chimaera line of devices, to weaken an enemy's resistance to plasma damage, essentially making it more effective as a damage type.   

 

As far as I know, there is no other damage type that is covered by all weapons.  Energy doesn't come in ML form, and I'm only aware of one PL that does energy damage.  The Silver Discs -Energy fired by the Warriors Only Silver Hammer PL.  I'm unaware of a PL that does EMP damage, while both beams and MLs cover this damage type.  Impact is PL only as far as I know.  Chemical damage doesn't come in Beam Weapon form, though it's covered by at least some MLs and PLs.   Explosive comes mostly in MLs but there is at least one PL that does explosive damage, the DigiApogee prototype PLs.

 

Mob's deflects should, and as players discover them, will result in different damage type choices. 

 

For Jenquai, except the JT, they don't have access to a line of readily available PM energy debuffers, but they do have access to a readily available line of PM plasma debuffers.   This means that unless the mob is weak to energy, or immune to plasma, for a JE or JW plasma is almost always is the better choice. 

 

For a JT the better choice is usually going to be plasma, even though she can debuff both energy & plasma with fairly common PM debuffers.  This is because plasma beams do bonus damage against shields, while energy beams don't.  Plasma does less damage against hulls, so in some situations against mechanical mobs, energy may be the better choice.   If the mob is resistant or immune to plasma, or if the mob is vulnerable to energy damage, then it may be beneficial to go with energy beams and a Manticore.

 

In EnB Origins, I often found Manes guarding orefields, this meant that if I wanted to fight back when attacked I had to equip Plasma beams.  Manes in the original game were immune to energy, and in the case of higher levels were actually healed by it.   Voltoi are also immune to energy, as they were both in this version of the game and the original.    If a JE or JW can only afford one set of beams, he's likely going to go with plasma.  While a JT can debuff both, I think she's more likely to encounter mobs that are resistant or immune to energy than she's likely to encounter mobs that are resistant or immune to Plasma.

 

The other races will have their perspectives on this as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can't remember what PL does EMP off the top of my head, but I could have sworn that one or the other did EMP as one of it's dmg types, I think it was mortar, maybe shotgun, that's about the weapon range I would have used at the time in Old Live (tm). I noticed that many mobs were weak in old Live (tm) to the dmg type they put out, since the Vindis in niff gave my PS/PW fits with both the dmg they took and the energy they drained (progen had reactors that were the suckiest), I experimented a bit with differing ammo on them and indeed found that the 43-47 Vindi drones took far more dmg from Emp than what I had been using.

 

It's the only reason I had L1 K3 EMP comps in my vault to make that ammo.

 

In looking on the DB I note now that there aren't k3 emp packs/cartridge as I remember..perhaps I'm not remembering right. A cartridge would have been for a PL ammo and the pack for a ML ammo. That's consistant for every ammo except one of the tengu ammos that is reverse.

 

Does anyone else remember using EMP PL ammo? It was very rarely used....maybe I'm confusing it with my TE and his missles, same situation EMP was very situational in use.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Valid points, I agree with you.  The main reason that plasma weapons are often used, especially against biological mobs, is that they give a bonus against shields.  (Chemical is stronger against hulls)   Plasma is also the only damage type, as far as I know, that is shared between all weapon types.  (some beams, some PLs, and some MLs can use this damage type, though not all of them)  None of the other types are covered by all weapons, as far as I can tell.  Bringing along a Jenquai also helps since we get the Chimaera line of devices, to weaken an enemy's resistance to plasma damage, essentially making it more effective as a damage type.   

 

As far as I know, there is no other damage type that is covered by all weapons.  Energy doesn't come in ML form, and I'm only aware of one PL that does energy damage.  The Silver Discs -Energy fired by the Warriors Only Silver Hammer PL.  I'm unaware of a PL that does EMP damage, while both beams and MLs cover this damage type.  Impact is PL only as far as I know.  Chemical damage doesn't come in Beam Weapon form, though it's covered by at least some MLs and PLs.   Explosive comes mostly in MLs but there is at least one PL that does explosive damage, the DigiApogee prototype PLs.

 

Mob's deflects should, and as players discover them, will result in different damage type choices. 

 

 

Thats what I was getting at.  I get a chuckle every time I shoot Chavez with Plasma and they don't or barely have any resistance to it.  They should have close to 50% resistance to plasma, in EA live thats about how much the dmg reduction was, which fits with their lore with the Ogun being their primary weapon. 

 

Here's how it's suppose to be.  Energy, impact, and Explosive are your base damage types. Energy was suppose to be slightly better against shields, and slightly weaker against hulls.  Impact, was general dmg and worked well against both shields and hulls, which was part of the Progens advantages.  Explosive would be slightly weaker against shields, and stronger against hulls.  Chemical and Plasma were suppose to be the DOT(damage over time) damage types.  Chemical should be weak against shields, and strong against hulls.  Plasma should be strong against shields, and weak against hulls.  The other thing was, DOT weapons wouldn't get the combat cloak bonus. 

 

Damage immunity should be mob specific, like voltoi and manes being immune to energy beams, they're more or less transparent after all so light would pass through them..  The other one that gave me a laugh was shooting Shikaku was plasma, since they live in....... lava, on a volcanic planet.  Special note to that, their were also weapons that did absolute dmg, the Zenshai force emitters, which is why they weren't manufacturable. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 8 months later...

I've been reading through this thread, and when talking about building 1000's of low level items, people have repeatedly mentioned crossbows.  Is there a particular reason?  They start at lv2.  Wouldn't a lv1 weapon be cheaper to use?  Or am I missing something?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO you are correct, I always used a L1 item.  And I have found that weapon parts are usually cheaper.  Things have changed from early after the wipe.  Now building just one item raises build quality in all fields, weps, devices, engines, etc. if your toon can build them.

 

I also rip and re-use the parts to build the items instead of selling them.  It does take longer, but I heard a Dev say that there is a 'dismantle counter' that we do not see that gets us more returned items the higher the count goes, and I feel that it has helped me in high level ripping.  Dismantling drops your costs from many millions to just a few million.  Also the most expensive item of the parts you use will be returned 99%, or more, of the time.  So you will need less of them in the long run.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm unaware of any item in game that doesn't require at least 3 parts to make, that's not an upgrade of a another item.  Of course the item being upgraded, needed at least 3 parts to make.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you are a Terran, you will takje the time to find out exactly which widget is the cheapest to make parts wise, and manufacturing wise, and thats the one you will mass produce.

 

I am a lazy Terran, so I just made the level 1 type c missile launcher, and of course dismantled to save some of the costs. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was not wise in this for the credit sake, As I leveled in build (IE) lvl 2/3/5/7/9  I garbed a stack of components to the lvl 2/3/5/7/9 and built at low faction station till they were 200%. yes I know I spent more then others. But I did it the same way in WW/EA live and I remembered it worked at that time as well. Now I see that I could have saved $$, Oh well I had nothing else to spend it on. Just my dollar two ninety five worth .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it possible to macro this?  Well, I guess it's possible, but is it acceptable / tolerated / etc?

 

I'm about 1k builds/dismantles into this process, and damn it's boring.  Effective and worth it (IMO), but boring.

 

 

-EDIT-

To answer my own question, please see Rules of the game.

 

19.Macro's are allowed as long as a member of staff can contact you in
game within 5-10 minutes of first attempt, a 48 hour ban is then
issued if you are afk macro'ing.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WOW, I'll bet that was boring!

 

Did you macro it or actually sit there an give yourself CT doing it manually?

Yes, it was boring. No, I did not macro it.  I don't have Carpal Tunnel....   yet, thankfully ;)

 

I just totaled up a count for a rough number of lowbie builds that I did for boosting build quality.  I have three different Progen to do all of Agrippa, a TT, for all builds except engines, a TE for engines and a JE for reactors.  I also ripped each item to recover parts and increase my disassemble count.

 

Twenty one thousand, three hundred and fifty seven....     roughly :blink:

 

I wish I hadn't, ouch! :wacko:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WOW, I'll bet that was boring!

 

Did you macro it or actually sit there an give yourself CT doing it manually?

No Macro, would not know how to use one if I had one. Just lots of pushing the button, and mining on JE while doing it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the ONLY hope of getting build quality to 200% across the board, is to build thousands of a low level item? 

Well they dont have to be low level items, but you will have to build about 6000 items to get to 200% lv 9 builds.

I like to pick an item I can build and upgrade to the next level to cut down on trips to the vendor or dismantler.

So I will have 4 stacks of components in my cargo, build max number of items to fill my hold leaving 1 space open

so I can upgrade those to the next level, rinse and repeat until all components are gone.

Its better to do this in the beginning of a characters life so you at least get some experience while doing it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well they dont have to be low level items, but you will have to build about 6000 items to get to 200% lv 9 builds.

I like to pick an item I can build and upgrade to the next level to cut down on trips to the vendor or dismantler.

So I will have 4 stacks of components in my cargo, build max number of items to fill my hold leaving 1 space open

so I can upgrade those to the next level, rinse and repeat until all components are gone.

Its better to do this in the beginning of a characters life so you at least get some experience while doing it.

I'm still confused.  I found I can build a level 4 device at 200% (without doing the marathon build) but...at what point does that equate to higher levels at 200%? So if I can do some (or all?) devices at level 4 at 200% does that mean I need to do level 5s in massive quantities to get my build up? Or can I go back to the level 1 or 2 to do the massive build quantities.  

 

It seems to me that ripping then building looted devices at a say level 8 or 9 should increase build skill faster than building the silly thousands of lower levels...??????????

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm still confused.  I found I can build a level 4 device at 200% (without doing the marathon build) but...at what point does that equate to higher levels at 200%? So if I can do some (or all?) devices at level 4 at 200% does that mean I need to do level 5s in massive quantities to get my build up? Or can I go back to the level 1 or 2 to do the massive build quantities.  

 

It seems to me that ripping then building looted devices at a say level 8 or 9 should increase build skill faster than building the silly thousands of lower levels...??????????

It would seem that ripping and building lev 8 or 9 devices would work faster but it does not. You can go back to building lev1 devices again to build up your ability.

Faction also matters at the station you are building those higher level devices at, so turn in those space suits and gene maps at the appropriate places to build your faction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It would seem that ripping and building lev 8 or 9 devices would work faster but it does not. You can go back to building lev1 devices again to build up your ability.

Faction also matters at the station you are building those higher level devices at, so turn in those space suits and gene maps at the appropriate places to build your faction.

If that is true... it is wrong.  So my new mission is to have this looked at and made to be more fair to builders.  Sorry for those of you who sat down and did thousands of some silly low level build but that is not right.  2000 level 1 anything should not affect your build at level 9.

 

Just saying...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If that is true... it is wrong.  So my new mission is to have this looked at and made to be more fair to builders.  Sorry for those of you who sat down and did thousands of some silly low level build but that is not right.  2000 level 1 anything should not affect your build at level 9.

 

Just saying...

It should not, but it does.

 

That is how it is now.  We just pass on the info that works for those willing to get where they want to be.  ^_^

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the problems here is that we're a fairly small player base.  I don't think that you'll be able to build thousands of items, and find enough players that want said items.  If there are missions that builders, of all races & profession can do to improve their quality, that would help.  I agree with faction playing a role.

 

I can't really say I blame the people who wish to be serious builders, for making a bunch of L1 items.  It's the best way to keep the overhead as low as possible.  If I had to make x(1000) L9 items, it would be cost prohibitive.  Same if I had to make that number of items for each build skill, on a given character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not saying we need to build 1000 level 9 items.  What I think makes sense is... for example: You build level 1 until you can build every time at 200%.  You move up to lvl 2 or 3 and start from there with a way better % than 0 or starting over.  You keep building progressively higher levels as your % increases. As soon as you can build lvl 1 at 100% it does you no good to build any more at that level.  (An example: As you progress as a miner the level 1 debris not only gives you experience but credits...  The higher your level you stop getting XP but continue to get credits.) This was probably a bad example now that you get XP and faction for trading it in but you get my point.  As you progress in CL you also get less and less XP for killing low level mobs.  Building should be the same... why should my build skill for level 9 by increased for building 1000+ level 1 items? 

 

We could have a decreasing quantity needed to increase build quality the higher the level of the item.  For Example: 300 items for level 1, 200 for 2 - 3, 100 for 4 - 5, 50 for 6 - 7, 25 for 8 - 9... And all these builds still fall under the built in randomness, so a few more or a few less may actually be required.  

 

The above numbers are only a suggestion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...