Menace, Fold Space, Summons Issues.

[Phorlaug[IS]]

I'm not really sure if its intended but..

Please take another look at the Players ability to Summons

or Menace a single NPC out of formation.

 

I feel as do a couple of other JDs and PSs feel that A targeted NPC

should be able to be Menaced or Summoned out of formation.

 

A boss SHOULD Be immune to or Highly Immune to Summons or Menace untill the point

at which the Message comes up That He is about to be defeted. When the Boss is at its weakest

both Menace and Summons should hit with more frequency.

 

I also just want to make a statement that If a NPC can Menace or Summons ANY one

of the Players out of formation we should be able to do the same. Just sayin. :)

 

 

[SiSL]

I want to add my two cents while subject is summon:

 

Summon should not work if summoned-NPC is already in combat state with another player or another group unless summoner is inside that group or if another player/group already attacked the mob... 

 

Currently, there are some bugs that players don't see if mob is damaged or not unless they attack it or see the attacker...This also brings many confusions to "summoners" , that would stop all arguments of "mob stealing"  via summons.

Edited February 28, 2013 by SiSL

[Statyomota]

The way it is now in the fb raids the boss backs out of range making pw almost worthless thanks for the nerf. If pressed they will continue to back up and they can go clear out of sector making them unlootable . there should be a resistance to summoning but right now it is set to high . Just my thoughts.

[Phorlaug[IS]]

I want to add my two cents while subject is summon:

 

Summon should not work if summoned-NPC is already in combat state with another player or another group unless summoner is inside that group or if another player/group already attacked the mob... 

 

Currently, there are some bugs that players don't see if mob is damaged or not unless they attack it or see the attacker...This also brings many confusions to "summoners" , that would stop all arguments of "mob stealing"  via summons.

Agree and good point.

But.

If and when we get the Raid status working.

How can I explain this.

Remember (iirc), when we started a raid in Live, the group that wanted to be in a raid announced to the raid organizer who was the Group leader, the Group leader was invited to the raid, his entire group was invited to the raid and the Raid: chat was then activated or implemented.

 

I'm not sure what the command was for inviting a group to a Raid. Raid: /RIPhorlaug is been so dam long I can't remember. RI=Raid invite, Phorlaug Group Phorlaug being a group leader, his entire group would get into the raid.

 

Then ANYONE with the Raid Chat channel activated can shoot, Debuff, Menace or Summon any NPC within that Raid.

I think that anyone Not with a Raid status CAN NOT fire or do ANYTHING to a Raid Mob. Like Your JOB Spawn.

The Raid organizer will have loot controls or can assign Raid leader controls for looting rights and commands.

 

If you are saying That If my group shoots or hits with a Debuff And does a substantial amount of damage or Aggro to the Back right Minion of a formation, we Anyone in my group can then Menace or Summon a NPC from their formation. I agree. 

 

No one that was not invited to a raid should not be doing any thing to a Raid Mob. Did you activate it? Were you invited Then you have no right to be shooting or Looting.

Now, I'm going to get off the Raid part of this.

 

If there was a way for the DEVs to use the "First Activation" And "First Damage" to a tethered mob-to-Boss-to-raid as a way to control Kill/Mob stealing they should try.

 

We would like to think that our community is an honorible one but the truth is and always will be, There are a few that are not.

 

I am not going to lie to you I have accidently summoned an NPC to kill and then realized there was someones Missiles on there way.

Many many times I would get off the Target and Message the group or individual sorry Is your target your Kill.

 

Even I Will fly in on a fresh spawned Named that has not taking damage or had no aggression on them.

Just because you've been camping doesn't mean I wasn't watching the spawn timer. "First Activation / First Damage". And then a reset at 100%.

Hesitation is weakness, Kill or get off the shitter.

 

 

 

The way it is now in the fb raids the boss backs out of range making pw almost worthless thanks for the nerf. If pressed they will continue to back up and they can go clear out of sector making them unlootable . there should be a resistance to summoning but right now it is set to high . Just my thoughts.

 

Agreed, You've seen the messages some of the Bosses give out or will be displayed when the boss is loosing the fight or is about to die. At that point the Bosses resistance should be reduced substantually, All Debuffs and activations should hit with more fequency.

[Phorlaug[IS]]

I had a chance to talk with another player on some issues concerning Fold Space and Summons.

PLease take another look at theses skills and issues.

 

I was going to post a screen shot of the conversation but when I tried I CTD. The

Conversation was with FishJD.

 

It seems that Fold space does not work on an NPC that is in Formation JDs please verifie.

 

Also Summons and Fold space does not Work on a single player thats in formation.

Per FishJD, he was unable to Fold space on a fellow group member that was IN formation.

 

It seems the NPC and the Players are pretty tightly teathered to their formations.

[Spa[IS]]

type 'chat' in Windows search Phor, it will show your in-game chat, just copy/paste from there

[Phorlaug[IS]]

Thank you, DEVs and Betas. :)

[Mattsacre]

About your "first activation/first damage" thing Phorlaug.....not built in client, and even if doable not right to do. Yes there are peeps that "KS" so to speak, there are those that say "I killed 51% before you, I didn't Ks..it don't exist" I'm not one of those and I find it a piss poor excuse for bad behaviour. There are those in the camp (of which you seem to be one) that say first shot owns the mob, I also don't agree with them either.

 

Let me paint a picture for you:

 

Lets say there are 2 players killing and looting an area, one a cloak beamer and one a projectile/missle user. Lets for the arguement make you the beamer and me..oh lets say a PW. Now Iv'e been hunting this area, hoping mister named mob would spawn and so have you. Per your "first activation/first damage" idea lets proceed; named mob pops up and maybe we see it at the same time..maybe I, the PW see it a fraction sooner than you and start firing, you see it and fire, beam damage is instant damage, projectile isn't and missle is even longer than projectile damage, you unfairly get the "first activate/first damage" and "own" the mob. Now since you got the mob maybe you love that and think thats fair since you got the mob...but consider this, lets swap places...YOU are the Pw and I'm the JD...do you like it now?

 

Lets take the logic a step farther, let's say you are a JE that don't have a chance in hell of killing some named mob solo, but could grouped. So someone in your group parks a cloaked JE on some named mobs spawn point and does zip but sit idle. While that JE, safe in his little cloak bubble sits there, some other solo or grouped bunch of players (not in that JE's group) is doing all the heavy lifting of clearing a spawn point of "trash" mobs, not suspecting that little JE is there. Up pops mister mean ol' named mob and cloaked JE snipes him and then recloaks. That jackass JE just "owned" the mob for his group to come in from even sectors away and kill it at their leasure, they did ZIP to "earn" that mob, leaving that solo/group that was keeping the area clean of trash and doing the "work" out in the cold for the named mob. This may seem a extreme example, true, but you know if it can be done, it will be done by some inconsiderate jackass.

 

Just like the "51% first isn't KSing" crowd are exploiting a dynamic to justify their poor behaviour (aka asshattery) so to would the "first tap is legal killer" crowd be enabled to exploit a dynamic into asshattery.

 

I'm not saying you would do this Phorlaug, I've been around killing with you about and we were both curtious folks, but as always, as you know, if it can be done, some jerk is going to do it, not all players are curtious folks.

[SiSL]

Mobs summoning entire group should not drop formation imo...

[Zackman [LDEV]]

Yep, shouldnt...at least i thought i made it that way.

Is it currently dropping formation ?

[SiSL]

Yep, shouldnt...at least i thought i made it that way.

Is it currently dropping formation ?

 

Yes, currently It is, mob summons entire group next to it --which we understand it has a group summon, but it drops formation, leader has to re-initiate formation, every single other group members should also reform. 

 

Event of confirmation is happened yesterday... And leader had the most aggro --thus mob's attack was against leader, so I assume mob tried to pull leader as well, Let's give mobs name while we are at it, Zenorsh (CL60) for testing purposes. 

Edited March 18, 2013 by SiSL

[Zackman [LDEV]]

Ok, thats wrong then - trying to fix it until tomorrow!

[Cruxshadow]

I experienced that issue yesterday while doing the GoBB raid. Every time GoBB summoned my group it would cause the formation to break.

[Zackman [LDEV]]

Fixed.

[Autodestruct]

For Summon Friend I still see the occasional failure, or they only get summoned 30k from where they were summoned from.  If I resummon then they end up coming to the correct place.

 

I haven't seen any consistent trend, sector etc but I still have this occasionally happen.

 

--Auto

[jrichards]

Summon group and summon player both fail as much as they succeed.  Easy test is to place JD at Jupiter gate to saturn.  Have group form and warp to gate from weft.  When groups gets into range try to summon. I see it fail about 50% of the time on the first summon.  On the second summon it seems to work (never seen it fail).  Doing the same thing with a single player seems to have a little better chance of success but its still high enough that's its very easy to reproduce.

 

note: When I see the summon skill fail the summon graphic effect does occur but it doesn't move the player/group to the JD. It's as if the client and server server doesn't know where to place the summoned player so it just puts them back where they were or slightly closer.  When the second summon occurs the server and client seem to agree and the group/player gets moved to the JD.

[Zackman [LDEV]]

I was not able to reproduce this, no matter what i tried.  

 

But thinking about it, i might know what happens - which is based on the stabilty changes (re-architecturing) and the order of update cycles on players.

 

I think the group leader is overwriting the summoned players position right after the summon took place (if they are flying in formation).

This would happen if the group leader is updated BEFORE the summoned player, therefore the GL is copying his position info over to the summoned player - and overwriting the new summon position at this point.

 

To proof this theory, it should only happen under these conditions:

1. JD is not GL

2. JD is using "summon friend" - not "summon group"

3. The summoned player is not the group leader

4. The summoned player & GL are flying in formation

 

 

Fixing it...