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Whats up with group warp initiation/navigate/lazarus usage?


jrichards

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In Live, when in group, only the group lead needed to have a lazarus device equipped.  This allowed the group to get out of bad situations in a timely matter.

 

In the EMU it appears that all members of the group must have a lazarus device equipped in order for warp initiation to occur more quickly. This functionality also seems to prevent a group lead from using their navigate skill since it doesn't even appear to be factored in.  Anyone else find this makes navigate, in groups, a useless skill?

 

Just wondering if there was a EMU dev design decision behind this, if it is just a bug, or not yet implemented code. 

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I don't think it makes navigate a useless skill. I've reacted more to the fact that group warp speed calculations seems off. As far as I remember, in OL, group warp speed was the average speed of all members in formation. Now it seems to lean heavier on the slower members, not giving the group the full advantage of having a few characters with very high warp speeds in a group.
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In live it definitely made a difference having group members in formation have a lazarus fitted. I can still clearly remember situations when it made a difference i.e. zipping around the Tada-O gate in formation with a group doing the raid when it was brand new. It makes sense that the formation can only warp as quickly as the slowest member in the formation can enter warp. May be if members in the formation have navigate skill it ought to add a small bonus to warp charge for members in formation if it does not already.

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Unless they changed it last year before sunset, it was pretty much same if not worse than Emu in "WW live" too... Actually, currently it seems to take avarage stats of warp between heighest and lowest member... Back then you were slow as the slowest person of group... And back then you were stopping whole group if one of member's reactor drained, not now... Yes, initiation times were also taking the slowest... 

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in "Live" as in the Emu, im sure warp initiation speed was based on the slowest person in the group.

I had insta warp on my JE and he would hang while the slowest in the group fired up his engine.

just as warp/impulse were average from group members, warp start/cooldown were also average* from grouped members stats.

 

I know it for a fact as 2004 I made guildie dizzy when went a bit far with toggling warp button on/off (max JE/TT, some other chars)

 

* not sure if arithmetic average, weighted, something else, but it was instant warp/stop/warp/stop/....

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Unless they changed it last year before sunset, it was pretty much same if not worse than Emu in "WW live" too... Actually, currently it seems to take avarage stats of warp between heighest and lowest member... Back then you were slow as the slowest person of group... And back then you were stopping whole group if one of member's reactor drained, not now... Yes, initiation times were also taking the slowest... 

 

I can't support the claim that

 

"And back then you were stopping whole group if one of member's reactor drained, not now." 

 

In EMU, I fight in a group all the time, and I just cannot warp if one member of the group has his reactor drained.  I usually have to kick him out and warp in order to save the group.

Edited by VincentTH
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I can't support the claim that

 

"And back then you were stopping whole group if one of member's reactor drained, not now." 

 

In EMU, I fight in a group all the time, and I just cannot warp if one member of the group has his reactor drained.  I usually have to kick him out and warp in order to save the group.

Try Free-warp and let other's reactor drain... While you still warping...

 

They will continue to warp with you...

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I mean this: you were fighting, then all of a sudden a high level mob spawn on top of you.  If one of the group member has his reactor drained (due to fighting), group free-warp does not work.  The leader have to kick him out in order for the group to warp.

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I mean this: you were fighting, then all of a sudden a high level mob spawn on top of you.  If one of the group member has his reactor drained (due to fighting), group free-warp does not work.  The leader have to kick him out in order for the group to warp.

That was same in live too, nothing changed there, but what was not in live was the one I pointed above... You were stopping in middle of free-warp if any members reactor drained because of warp. Now only leaders reactor is important... 

Edited by SiSL
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In live, when any players reactor was empty, in or out of a group, that player stopped the group when in free warp, or could not enter warp if a destination was chosen. The Laz was an average delay time from all group members 

 

I sort of remember watching my group warp away from me because I drained my reactor shooting, and one of them was receiving a hiding, their shields and reactor was going down fast so leader free warped

Then, you know, the usual Progen Warrior chant, "Chickens, get back here, theyr'e only scratching your paint (Damn Terrans)"

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Not really concerned with warp speed, or warp initiation due to a grouped toon not having enough power.  Those are separate issues to this post (but def interesting to discuss).

 

Warp initiation in live was never averaged (the way that warp speed is).  It was always based on the group lead.  Seriously, I raided and did group runs 100s of times in Live and never did anyone other than the group lead need to have a Laz equipped.  A group lead with a Laz and either supernova or eagle wing was the difference between surving and getting consistently owned against tougher mobs and raids.

 

I just do not see any benefit to making warp initiation work the same as warp speed other than making it more annoying for players and having a higher chance of being killed.  In game-play terminology I can understand the design decision to see that warp speed is reduced by the slowest member of a group.  However when you group form the 'activate' warp should be linked to the group lead.  If its not ships activating warp at different times, even by a split second, would rip the group apart.  And if the emu devs want to keep it working this way what is the point of group forming? Just not having to auto follow a mob? It would seem that if every member of the group needs a lazarus installed then it would be better to simply have the tank sit in front of the mobs and all the other toons move behind the mob and simply rotate as the mob turns.  Sure this would be the most effective tactic but it really defeats the purpose and benefit of group forming that were present in Live.

 

If the group cannot take advantage of the group lead's warp initiation then why should they take advantage of the thrust and turn rate of the group lead?  Take thrust, warp initiation, turn rate and give them all the same mechanic that warp speed has.  Then if you want to be able to move quickly, warp quickly, turn quickly, or warp at max speed while in group everyone in the group must have all the appropriate gear equipped. This would be consistent....but damn it sure wouldn't be any fun.

Edited by Crichton
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I mean this: you were fighting, then all of a sudden a high level mob spawn on top of you.  If one of the group member has his reactor drained (due to fighting), group free-warp does not work.  The leader have to kick him out in order for the group to warp.

Sisl is correct if you start out with all group members with full reactors then freewarp, the lower lvl toons in the group say while on a tour, there reactors will drain to 0 and they will still be warping, in original live that player or players would stop warping when there reactor hit 0. Now if the players reactor is 0 before you try to run you are correct that person in group will not warp away as it should be, but the above situation should happen as well if you are already free warping and someones reactor drains to 0 they should stop. They do not here in the EMU.

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As for group initialization it was always based on the slowest player in the group, not the highest and it was not averaged, as for warp speed itself it was averaged between all group members speeds not just the highest and lowest, this was also averaged out before actiavted buffs. This is a minor issue and no big deal as I see it, since in original live speed was capped at 5k for a long time before they changed it later to 6k, I remember most terrans just using the lvl9 Ursa only to travel since it was and still is the only 5k warp engine in game.

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I'm fine with how it is currently, because at the moment there is no Warp Disruption.  In WWLive, taking too much HULL damage too quickly, resulted in your Warp Charging to become interrupted.  I have yet to have this occur in the Emu at all, and the only time have been interrupted has been when I had 0 hull.

 

If/When the interruption gets added, then I can understand and would request changes made to the Group Warp effects.

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