Jump to content
jrichards

Are the devs ever going to fix beam range?

Recommended Posts

Fine point, Phorlaug. I'll meet Crichton with you!

 

Even at 0.00, beams are hitting less, or not nearly as high. Feels like WoW with hunters all over again.

 

I still don't think damage should be adjusted until after max range of the individul weapon is reached; If it was like that in LIVE or not. If there are buffs to range, make the diminshing damage start there.

Agreed.

For an example, the Blue Dragon, within the 1400 k range the beams damage should be at 100%, 

After a Range buff, any damage after the initial 1400k would be -50%.

 

Yea, May as well list the beams range at 50% the weapons discription?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fine point, Phorlaug. I'll meet Crichton with you!

 

Even at 0.00, beams are hitting less, or not nearly as high. Feels like WoW with hunters all over again.

 

I
still don't think damage should be adjusted until after max range of
the individul weapon is reached; If it was like that in LIVE or not. If
there are buffs to range, make the diminshing damage start there.

I fully agree with Madmac's idea.

 

-Overt.

 

 

Agreed.

For an example, the Blue Dragon, within the 1400 k range the beams damage should be at 100%, 

After a Range buff, any damage after the initial 1400k would be -50%.

 

Yea, May as well list the beams range at 50% the weapons discription?

 

 

I fully agree as well, that is how it should work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand this wholeheartedly as a JE and damage should never be modified by range due to client-to-server, server-to-client differences that can cause false info from client to server or server to client. 

 

But as I posted on other thread,

 

Rather than changing beam damage based on range, may be items should be revisited to remove ridicilous beam ranges.  

 

8.5K beam range without any beam range modifier? Heck missiles are barely hitting that distance with range modifiers + they are slow + each hit COST money (and at high levels, costing mining time) + requires lots of cargo space...

 

"ANY(!)" beam -regardless where it is looted from- with range modifiers should never pass range of an avarage PL, never ever reach to range of a vendor ML of equivalent level...

 

May be THEN beam damage should be considered full without range stat...

Edited by SiSL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand this wholeheartedly as a JE and damage should never be modified by range due to client-to-server, server-to-client differences that can cause false info from client to server or server to client. 

 

But as I posted on other thread,

 

Rather than changing beam damage based on range, may be items should be revisited to remove ridicilous beam ranges.  

 

8.5K beam range without any beam range modifier? Heck missiles are barely hitting that distance with range modifiers + they are slow + each hit COST money (and at high levels, costing mining time) + requires lots of cargo space...

8.5k without a Beam range modifier. What Beam is that?

 Sounds like your unhappy with playing a Terran. (Ammo cost, Manufacturing time, Componate hunts etc etc.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First point, No kidding. I remember how it was in live, but there are other things that need more attention than this. With a roll of the dice on the amount of damage delivered per shot, per beam, this isn't a good idea.

 

Your second point, Mobs take off in a given direction at high speed when hit by a coma. Try it and see. Go hit the RD base, GoBB, etc with it and see.

 

On Matt's discussion... We are talking about short distances for concentrated focused light and particle weapons. A few kilometers is no where near enough to disperse that much focused energy. Lasers today can maintain a cohesive beam for thousands of miles. All I am going to say about it. Yes, I have had a few physics classes, and I have other first hand (personal) sources on technology like this. Its not too difficult to understand.

You contradict yourself here in your statement of "focused beams at long range."  There is no focused beams that are capable of maintaining energy to even burn paper over the distances you are speaking of.  You are thinking of Guidance Lasers, and those are not focused.  If you believe me wrong, Google is your friend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

8.5k without a Beam range modifier. What Beam is that?

 Sounds like your unhappy with playing a Terran. (Ammo cost, Manufacturing time, Componate hunts etc etc.)

I don't think they meant to say WITHOUT beam modifier :), but to everyone saying "modify the beam range of the protobeam thats the problem, not other things"....a base range of  a protobeam L9 is 3.5k. Most vendor beams L9 hover around 2kish range, several of the loot beams run around 2.8-3kish. Is the protobeams extra .5k the problem? No.

 

It's what is modifying the beam range being the problem and nerf it, or dmg drop off after 50% range, thats the choices when you boil it all down. What would you rather have? Being geared good and being able to tap a mob @ 8k if you so desire, (if thats your game style), and going with the lesser dmg luring in the mob...even having a range option that way.  With the 50% reduction that lets both play styles fly. Up close you get 100% dmg, gear for that OR gear for range knowing you get less out of it but get to kite. It's about choices, range with less dmg or close with max.

 

Got to tell you I like the idea of choices, I've geared both ways ST4 with my Jens. I would love to have the same type of choices on PL/ML, there are times I would give all my range, fight nose to nose if needed, to get a periodic 2x dps!

 

But sorry, there is no way in hell that getting to stealth strike @8k for full dmg x2 is any way balanced...something has to give. For our Jennies to have that, then we have to retool the ML/PL users to have vaster longer range or higher dps, mobs to have vaster longer ranges, vastly larger hulls/shields, larger thrust ratios, larger scan ranges etc. etc. Whats more likely and fair? Modify the Jens mechanics or EVERYTHING else?

Edited by Mattsacre

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really recommend writing up bugs if things in the emu are not working.  The devs tend to fix things that are bugged......where as they never fix an item when its not bugged,

 

True story.

 

And I love having to actually get in close to fight mobs on my Jen now.  Jen play style feels a lot closer to Live now ^_^ .

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can you tell me ..if you want to 'balance' which is wheight more or less:

cloak+paper hull vs L9 shield +hull dmg skill

coma vs kite vs grav link  kite

beams bad energy efficiency/low range inta dmg vs proj efficiency good range vs missiles high range, able to shoot backwards

 

please think very well before you nerf any of these above to 'balance' the game and yes i'm speaking not for jenquai only stuff, but overal - every race got something which is good at, just make sure raid bosses cant be soloed but that all.

to hear that JD cant kill solo cooper tengu bosses is sad because I can kill them with TE and PW solo (with a bit difficulty with pw, but doable)

+1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand these resent discussions on The Jenquai and Nerfing everything they are, From Combat Cloak to Summons to Beam range and DPS.

If its a True Exploit I will let the DEVs know as I have in the past. Ask Kenu and Tienbau.

From what I see its always a Terran or a Progen bitching and Moaning. FOR WHAT ? Balance? The NPC don't care what Class is shooting at them!

 

Because a Jenquai JD can out DPS another race or class? What does it matter to the Terran or Progen when there are so Many people Multiboxing and more and more join that play style every day. If your concerned about the Spike damage and range of a Jenquai add one to your Formation of Multiboxed squadron OR Invite One to your group.

 

If your worried about Balance because of a hint of PvP, The DEVs and The Community have made it clear "There Will be No PvP!".

 

Should the Beam Range Multipliers (Items) decrease the Damage after the Beam Listed Range and DPS @ 100% and 200%. YES !

Should the Beams DPS be reduced by 50% of it LISTED DISCRIPTION @ 100% and 200% NO WAY in Hell !

Should the Beams Max Modified Range be reduced weather stacked or not? NO WAY In Hell !

Should The Stealth Strike Deal 100% (Not 200%) Of the Beams Listed DPS @ 100% and 200% with Max Range Multipliers installed? YES!

 

Stealth Strike = 200%DPS - 50% Range drop = 100% beams Listed discription at 100% and 200% quality.

 

With See Cloak being implemented in game and The Devices that Jenquai Use, Make a beams Max Range change a mute point. The Jenquai STILL have to get within a devices max range (0.5k-2.5k) in order to use them ! Makeing The 8.0+ range useless.

 

Now Your probally asking Why do I care what they do to the Jenquai ?

Because I Do Not Play any other race or Class and I very rarely Multibox my JSeeker.

So when a change is done to my race and Class it hurts my game play and injoyment.

 

Don't like that Fact that you have to Store your ammo, Manufacture your Ammo and Hunt or mine for your Componates. Well You made the choice on what class to

fall in love with in 2001 and 2002' and now In LIVEemu. Don't take it out on the Jenquai.

 

Leave my Class and Race the Hell alone.

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand these resent discussions on The Jenquai and Nerfing everything they are, From Combat Cloak to Summons to Beam range and DPS.

If its a True Exploit I will let the DEVs know as I have in the past. Ask Kenu and Tienbau.

From what I see its always a Terran or a Progen bitching and Moaning. FOR WHAT ? Balance? The NPC don't care what Class is shooting at them!

 

Because a Jenquai JD can out DPS another race or class? What does it matter to the Terran or Progen when there are so Many people Multiboxing and more and more join that play style every day. If your concerned about the Spike damage and range of a Jenquai add one to your Formation of Multiboxed squadron OR Invite One to your group.

 

If your worried about Balance because of a hint of PvP, The DEVs and The Community have made it clear "There Will be No PvP!".

 

Should the Beam Range Multipliers (Items) decrease the Damage after the Beam Listed Range and DPS @ 100% and 200%. YES !

Should the Beams DPS be reduced by 50% of it LISTED DISCRIPTION @ 100% and 200% NO WAY in Hell !

Should the Beams Max Modified Range be reduced weather stacked or not? NO WAY In Hell !

Should The Stealth Strike Deal 100% (Not 200%) Of the Beams Listed DPS @ 100% and 200% with Max Range Multipliers installed? YES!

 

Stealth Strike = 200%DPS - 50% Range drop = 100% beams Listed discription at 100% and 200% quality.

 

With See Cloak being implemented in game and The Devices that Jenquai Use, Make a beams Max Range change a mute point. The Jenquai STILL have to get within a devices max range (0.5k-2.5k) in order to use them ! Makeing The 8.0+ range useless.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now Your probally asking Why do I care what they do to the Jenquai ?

Because I Do Not Play any other race or Class and I very rarely Multibox my JSeeker.

So when a change is done to my race and Class it hurts my game play and injoyment.

 

Don't like that Fact that you have to Store your ammo, Manufacture your Ammo and Hunt or mine for your Componates. Well You made the choice on what class to

fall in love with in 2001 and 2002' and now In LIVEemu. Don't take it out on the Jenquai.

 

Leave my Class and Race the Hell alone.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I think I may have found the problem in your thinking. Tunnel vision.

 

You never play any other class/race so you don't know how "your" class' dynamics negatively or positively effect them.

Because you have had it one way for so long, you feel that it should go forward that way forever.

Devs are looking at the big picture and have explained why they must do what they are doing...not out of some maliciousness just to piss you and "your" race off, but something they must do for balance.

 

At this point anyone that can't accept that there was a problem, that they are addressing a long existing problem (wether you like their solution or not) and insists they put it back the way you have "always" had it in the past, (despite them explaining it's not a nerf but a long unaddressed bug) is now sounding like a petulent child.

 

As I've explained in other posts about how the Progen felt about "their" classes nerfs, they also, were all upset about the changes, the Devs had to weather their ire as well, but they calmly explained, just like now, that it was a big picture thing and it also had to change.

 

As someone who plays all 9 classes, sometimes things they do also pisses me off, but as I've learned in the past, there usually is a good reason for it, try soem other toons for a change, get a fresh perspective, perhaps you will see just why they are doing what is happening and not be so reactionary.

 

As in all things...this too shall pass.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I may have found the problem in your thinking. Tunnel vision.

 

You never play any other class/race so you don't know how "your" class' dynamics negatively or positively effect them.

Because you have had it one way for so long, you feel that it should go forward that way forever.

Devs are looking at the big picture and have explained why they must do what they are doing...not out of some maliciousness just to piss you and "your" race off, but something they must do for balance.

 

At this point anyone that can't accept that there was a problem, that they are addressing a long existing problem (wether you like their solution or not) and insists they put it back the way you have "always" had it in the past, (despite them explaining it's not a nerf but a long unaddressed bug) is now sounding like a petulent child.

 

As I've explained in other posts about how the Progen felt about "their" classes nerfs, they also, were all upset about the changes, the Devs had to weather their ire as well, but they calmly explained, just like now, that it was a big picture thing and it also had to change.

 

As someone who plays all 9 classes, sometimes things they do also pisses me off, but as I've learned in the past, there usually is a good reason for it, try soem other toons for a change, get a fresh perspective, perhaps you will see just why they are doing what is happening and not be so reactionary.

 

As in all things...this too shall pass.....

Petulent Child and Reactionary? This is just two of your "Sounding like a Petulent and reactionary" Post.

 


 

 

 


That begs the question.....


What is a PW SUPPOST to be? A tank.


What are it's skill set DESIGNED to do? Sit in a spot and dish out dmg and absorb dmg.


Where can a PW do what they are suppost to do with their skill set solo with current AI? Nowere.


 


Some say "adjust or die" *shrug* o.k. do what Stanig suggests, works most times, not always...don't forget summon and hack. But whatever.


Or if devs don't want to provide PW friendly combat mobs for leveling.....(that seems to be overweaningly JD doable now because of thier skill set BTW).


Don't.


Yeh don't, don't do the mobs with your PW, park em. Wait for mobs AI that are more suited to what they were intended to be, a class that sits in the maelstrom and dishes out armegedon.


Let the JD's that have had the advantage of mobs to level on, or the credit from loot, or the gear from raids be the tank. Let them sit in the maelstrom and use thier skills to tank raids.


 


Since there will be a shortage of PWs that couldn't level on available mobs, or have the credits from loot, or the raid gear to effectively tank..the JDs will have to take up the slack, maybe they can keep the bosses attention off the healers while they cloak and dagger the bosses, maybe they can kite the bosses with L8 shields....


 


The point remains, the PW weren't nerfed.


But the end results may have as well been, if they can't do what they are suppost to be with what they got vs. whats out there, you have effectly neutered them.


 


 

 


 

I too did a lot of the kiting of volts etc. I wasn't saying never kite and be able to sit and never move :)


 


The method I always used was kite the mob from max range and thrust back, if they were a fast mob hopefully by time they got close enough to shoot I had them well down in shields and could then stop and gain the CT buffs back. If they were a slow mob, then I could stop and start as needed.


 


Don't forget, there are other things in there beside resists from CT....like accuracy and crit and shield recharge rate and reactor recharge rate. The last 2 was always crutal to a PW farming, they got a faster recovery between each kill, if they planted it between each mob kill.


 


Back to my point, the previously good places for PW killable mobs are now former good places due to inconsistant AI behaviour. AI with insane thrust from previous iterations, AI with unbalanced call for help ranges, AI with unrational scan ranges, AI with pairing/grouping out of parity to their levels.


 


Becuase PWs damage style (a constant flow of bullets) is dependant on them staying with in range to do it, and they are usually moderately visable if not highly, they are locked in to initiating combat a certain way, they current AI is making it very difficult to find suffucient mobs that a PW can do.


 


The situation only frustrates the PW when they see JD being able to( due to their multiple ways if initiating combat)  continue taking those mobs, that PW now are denighed, or even because of new AI, take mobs that previously JD could only rarely do. It only fuels the conspiracy theorists claim of Jenny bias when they are locked out and others aren't.


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


Jenquai Bias?

Nothing has changed for the PW from ST4 through beta til now.  Absolutely zero.  I do not know where you get the idea it was nerfed, because it was not.  I would know, my main play toon is a PW.


 


If anything its the JDs that got the bat upside the head, with all the raid bosses that see cloak now.  So seriously, post evidence.


 

Me play another Race it'll be a cold day On Dahin!

Besides If I play another Race I'll surely find an Un-balanced effect or Exploit, and what should I do report it or complain how and why it needs to be fixed.

What would you think I was doing then?

 

I'm not going to Jump on the Nerf the Race/class bandwagon, and prevent this game from moving forward or are we calling it "Fix"

MMORPG, I choose to Play the role of a Jenquai. I will not stop defending this class and race.

Childish or Reactionary, call it what you like Mattsacre but remember, what I am saying is essentially what you have been doing and saying.

Goose and Gander.

 

"As in all things...this too shall pass"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with a lot of Phorlaug says here.  I've always disliked "nerfs" in which to balance things between classes.  Never agreed with that, always felt that the other classes should have been buffed up a bit to bring them in line, not weaken one to make others happier.

 

I am however liking the beam changes, and yes I do level and play a JD as well.  I always viewed my JD's as a stealthy, close-in fighter, able to dish out a lot of damage in a short period of time, but unable to sustain it at length, and unable to take many hits.

 

I also don't agree with a few other posts I've read here, where JD's complain about the range being shortened, so that it makes it hard to do damage while in formation.  Except for leveling, I can NEVER remember being in formation with my JD.  Almost always had a Lazarus installed, and cloaked in and out to do damage, and warped out as soon as I saw him taking hits.  My JD's role was as a debuffer support, the damage it added was nice, but if you go DPS JD's, more often than not you wanted two of them, with a TT flying in their own formation for saves as needed.  Other methods was to have two jd's, one to summon, other to go in and debuff, with a TT near the summoner to repair 'em as needed.

 

JD's in formation with a PW, and especially a TE, just wasn't done in the end game raids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol, reactionary..per my progen posts....sitting down and not participating in something isn't reactionary..it's the exact opposite in fact, ever heard of a peaceful protest.?..Ghandi won a country on it. He wasn't "reactionary" he was "nonparticipitory", thats what I suggested would be a viable option, if they couldn't handle the AI changes that were formerly good PW spots, the changes excluding PWs so to speak, then a nonparticipation might be an option for them. I would give the same advice to all the Jenny ranting and raving, if you can't adjust to the changes...don't, stage your own nonparticipation :)

 

Petulant...mmmm maybe, thats a eye of beholder thing I guess...I would say more, resentful..sort of kind of, but then not really....I was at that point rooting for the Pw and pointing out the problems, that the other JD weren't having to content with as badly, I too play Jenny and I root for them when there is actually something that needs it....IMO this isn't one of those times...the beam thing isn't a nerf but a addressed bug, long standing bug in fact.

 

Stanigs post, actually, he was factually incorrect. There was a slew of things in ST4 that happened to the progens, overwelmingly negative in progens view, most however were of the same nature as this jenquia beam thing is, something that had to give to allow game mechanics to work. However if you read into what he said that since ST4 to now nothing changed for PW....well that can be said  as partial truth, the PW itself wasn't altered (after ST4) but the PW's enviroment changed..the AI's were altered to the progens detriment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just one interjection, who in god's name said we did this because another class whined? (if so, let me just say it is not true in the most remote sense.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The beam range thing is what it's supposed to be like.  I don't mind the tradeoff of reduced damage for the Jenquai version of kiting, whether it's fold kiting, or flying backwards, still works best with a Coma device.  If you can keep your distance, and play cautiously and skillfully, you can still kill things, even with a JE, it just takes longer.  Provided skills, coma, and low sig works, to avoid being swarmed by mob's buddies.

 

I do think that fold kiting doesn't work as well in some ways, such as some mobs after being teleported away, deciding to run rather than trying to close, but works better in that I have yet to see FS get resisted which should happen some of the time.  On the issue of mobs deciding to run after being teleported away, now that I think about it, some probably should, generally the ones with lower aggression or bravery stats, while others should try and close.  Same for mobs that have been debuffed with a Coma.  The big concern for Jenquai is linked aggression, and high altruism among mobs.  If it can be worked around by strategy; it becomes less of an issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...