Jump to content
jrichards

Are the devs ever going to fix beam range?

Recommended Posts

I guess you misunderstood how it did work and is intended to work, let me enlighten you.

fro 0-50% of your beam range it is a hard 100% dmg +/- skill/device modifiers. At 50%+ range it is a fall off of dmg STARTING at -50%. Old Live (tm) at max range it wasn't -50% dmg it was -66%!

They have put it as live as possible, if they got it right you will see: 100%@ <= -1/2 range, 50%@ => +1/2 range, and somewere about 3/4 range 33% dmg. Got it?

 

so your saying at .5k range now your gonna do 31% less dmg than before the patch since thats what im doing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sorry that it unbalances your gameplay, but you know the saying about breaking a few eggs, right? This is what you have to do when developing, without changing and seeing the results, you can't perfect. Making a game is a lot like sculpture, you carve away until you have your final result.

Yeah I get it Kyp you gotta balance it right for both sides.  But it appears your only going one way. Controller harder, GoBB harder, cooper fishes do alot more dmg and has higher resists, beam dmg less.   See how it appears 1 sided?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can confirm that I'm doing less damage than before the patch even being right on top of the mob at 0.0k range.

ya, I'm seeing the same issue with a few different mob types from tengu to bio hunters ect with smaller models. I do agree however its lame a beam user can get out to 8k range.... lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess you misunderstood how it did work and is intended to work, let me enlighten you.

fro 0-50% of your beam range it is a hard 100% dmg +/- skill/device modifiers. At 50%+ range it is a fall off of dmg STARTING at -50%. Old Live (tm) at max range it wasn't -50% dmg it was -66%!

They have put it as live as possible, if they got it right you will see: 100%@ <= -1/2 range, 50%@ => +1/2 range, and somewere about 3/4 range 33% dmg. Got it?

It doesn't seem to be working as you said, just a quick test i did killing some voltoi with my beam range being 3.1k: at 0.0k - 3773 (plasma ticks), 1.5k 3773, 1.6k 3682, 3.1k 1950

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ya, I'm seeing the same issue with a few different mob types from tengu to bio hunters ect with smaller models. I do agree however its lame a beam user can get out to 8k range.... lol

But with the patch 8k will do alot less dmg, got no problem with that its just less than 50% range as stated in patch should be full dmg evan at .5k its 31% less, thats a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was doing 220k dmg to a lvl 60 yesterday and now at .5k range I do 150k dmg.

 

 

I was just rechecking the beam-damage-range-calculation by starting a local server version with the code that was running before yesterdays patch.

 

The damage on the mob i used for testing (Tengu Terror Maw) was the very same like it is now after the patch if you stay within the 0-50% beam range - so the damage in the "optimal range" has not been changed by the beam-range-calculation at all.

 

I was using the same setup for this test and i was reading out the damage values in the server to make sure they are accurate.

Maybe the mob you were fighting yesterday changed in terms of deflects, which i dont know.

 

Also know that the range where damage starts to fall off is actually not 50% - we "gave" you a bit more here since the mobs "center point" is their back/tail - not the head or real center, so you have the scale/size value of the mob counting toward the "good".

 

Eg. a Ten-Gu has a size of 822 units, so when your beam range is 5K, it doesn't start to fall of at 2.5, it will be almost 3K ( 5K + 800 = 5800 / 2 = 2.9K).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I get it Kyp you gotta balance it right for both sides.  But it appears your only going one way. Controller harder, GoBB harder, cooper fishes do alot more dmg and has higher resists, beam dmg less.   See how it appears 1 sided?

Beta/ST4 was very easy mode unbalanced.  Heck you could do the fishbowl with three toons by yourself. That is supposed to be a four group raid.  Things have been made harder because they were wayyyyyyy too weak back in the stress tests.

 

Its painful.  It makes you relearn how to coordinate and raid as a team, but for those of us (myself included) that ran raids in the original live, and sometimes completely wiped out and couldnt even finish...  it was an obstacle to overcome, not something lost.  Try harder/learn and adapt next time.  And then one day you conquer and get some phat lewt and theres lots of AWWWRIIIIGHTS in teamspeak.

 

Basically the entire rebalance of difficulty is to get us back to normal and not ultraeasy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL seriously dude dont diss me on professions, I play JD quite well and always have in the emulator.  I actually got my 9k based on a roundup from 8.73k with a vindis beam focus device 4 proto 9s @ 100% and a 200% DG on a standard loadout JD with otherwise store bought gear from joves, so just dont even sit here and say a word to me about my methodologies and insight into how things work bud, you will lose, badly.

 

I dont take undocumented reports at face value, this was thoroughly tested.  I was even able to reproduce the issue where you can effectively sit without even moving or cloaking and range snipe mobs that cant find you at approx 9k range.

 

That being said, the 50 percent change was already going in, left up to me (which was shot down based on original live stat preservation) the proto 9 woulda also been reduced in base range to 2.5k.  But that isnt happening, so be happy.

My question is, how did nerfing the beam damage at range fix this original issue (exploit) of a jd being able to kill mobs at nearly 9k without the mob attacking them?

 

Again it appears as tho the actual problem still exists, only now we have a new mechanic to deal with. this seems to be status quo for this dev team, nerf something that affects all players and still don't stop the exploiter from doing what they were doing that caused the team to make a change.

 

and  again the game becomes more work and less enjoyment for the mass of respectable good players, and just gives the exploiter types another reason to find something else to exploit.

 

this game/project has gotten well out of hand. it is no longer what any of us original players remember and fell in love with and i'm afraid never will be because it is no longer an emulator for players who love the game but some learning project for a group of devs that obviously never loved it or never played it.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So i just spend hours out of my day for no reason...  thanks dude, i feel real appreciated now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is a stretch Strettch. The dev team that works for nothing has a great passion for this game if they didn't you would not be here but in another place far far away. 9 k beam range is nuts but with bosses being able to see cloaked and summon working as intended adaption was required. As a JE the weakest but sneaky miner I have to bend in the breeze adapt or get xp debt. But untill other things are in balance we will have to tweak. All things are a work in progress as this too shall pass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But..but..he is doing what a JD/JE does...He is sniping from the side lines, shooting and then hiding.....this is about the beam nerf right? :) He wanted to snipe from long range and never be seen, now with the nerf we see him and his snipes and he don't like it....fix it now damn it now now now! :)

 

You know.....I remember when the PW got nerfed into the ground, I remember when the PP got nerfed into the ground, when the PW/PP groused about it, the Jenny players said (in effect, if not actually) "suck it up, you have it to good all the time anyway, it's about time we Jenny get a bone, not you, quit your crying." Well they were the benificiaries of those nerfs that progen got, they didn't get the "tweeks" the progen "enjoyed" at the time, the progen said back in effect, "wait until your turn comes, you are going to get a nerfle bat at some point, and you will get to "enjoy" the pain we do, as we are now."

 

Well some point is now, and your turn has come, are you "enjoying" it as the Progen did without your sympathy?

 

Just say'n.... :popcorn:

 

You had better adjust your aim there mister. This Jenpie sided with the progens on that argument as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was just rechecking the beam-damage-range-calculation by starting a local server version with the code that was running before yesterdays patch.

 

The damage on the mob i used for testing (Tengu Terror Maw) was the very same like it is now after the patch if you stay within the 0-50% beam range - so the damage in the "optimal range" has not been changed by the beam-range-calculation at all.

 

I was using the same setup for this test and i was reading out the damage values in the server to make sure they are accurate.

Maybe the mob you were fighting yesterday changed in terms of deflects, which i dont know.

 

Also know that the range where damage starts to fall off is actually not 50% - we "gave" you a bit more here since the mobs "center point" is their back/tail - not the head or real center, so you have the scale/size value of the mob counting toward the "good".

 

Eg. a Ten-Gu has a size of 822 units, so when your beam range is 5K, it doesn't start to fall of at 2.5, it will be almost 3K ( 5K + 800 = 5800 / 2 = 2.9K).

I just know for sure that I'm seeing lower numbers than before on various mobs that I farm regularily, so unless their resistances were raised I'm doing less damage. The easiest way I could tell was before the patch a specific mob I was killing in 2 beam volleys and now after 2 theyre left with a chunk of hull and I have to fire again. I'm always within 1.0k range and their model is small.

Edited by llamasmurf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You had better adjust your aim there mister. This Jenpie sided with the progens on that argument as well.

jenpies only sided with the progens after they added the JE sap to the timer lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name="Fleson" post="73391" timestamp="1360126600"]Yeah I get it Kyp you gotta balance it right for both sides.  But it appears your only going one way. Controller harder, GoBB harder, cooper fishes do alot more dmg and has higher resists, beam dmg less.   See how it appears 1 sided?[/quote] No, i dont, because i look at it from the viewpoint of all the other classes and the overall health of the gamestate and not from the viewpoint of the individual class because i know there are changes down the road that will mitigate these a bit.
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, i dont, because i look at it from the viewpoint of all the other classes and the overall health of the gamestate and not from the viewpoint of the individual class because i know there are changes down the road that will mitigate these a bit.

 

This is how beams worked in Live, w/r/t damage.  It's not too big a deal, remember as a Jenquai you want to get behind the mob and shoot him in the back, where he can't hit you with beams or PLs.    For mobs without clear backs, like Mabonae, look at what direction they're moving to figure out where their back is.  This will help you avoid damage from the mob you're shooting.  Don't forget starting at L3 devices try to find a space for a Coma.  Important to level EL to 25 before even really working on TL or CL.

 

With changes down the road, let's wait and see what they are.  We may find they are things we like. For big things like raids, all classes should be necessary to complete them, but there should also be plenty of things to do for solo players of all race & profession combinations.  This is probably more difficult than it appears since all classes need useful and unique things to bring, and as far as I know, we cannot have groups larger than 6.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Terrell,

 

Yes, I kinda cut that short because I was in the gym and on my tablet. JD are meant to be the 'silent assassin'. One hit mass damage, also known as "Spike Damage". They are not meant to compare in raw DPS to either the TE or the PW, anyone who believes otherwise is bound to be disappointed in the long run. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


 

So just to clarify damage was reduced period or were you attempting to reduce damage at higher ranges? How it currently sits is the damage pre patch is much higher than the damage at optimal range (I sometimes use follow on my jd so I’m normally up the mobs “ass” as it were, but normally I am at 0.5-0.9 with a max beam range of 3.5k-4.0k) post patch. It's quite obvious that the dps for a beam user has been reduced regardless of range. I know someone mentioned it was tested in a standalone, but I would rather have various opinions as the one stated was obviously flawed. Reason being is that currently this thread has gone from beam users (primarily JD’s) sniping at 8-9k ish to JD beam dps being over powered all together, so which is it? Overall I would rather not even play this game anymore after this recent patch due to the inability to solo anything higher than a combined hit point total of 200k for hull and shield. So the silent assassin would now turn into that needle which does nothing to support.



And please spare me the “this is how it was in beta and live", I was there I got the hat, t-shirt, beta cd’s blah blah blah…


In any case I agree with the range nurf, but the nurf on dps at range is not taking effect properly and is being applied across the entire spectrum reducing damage in its entirety.
 

I also understand it will take time to verify ;), it’s just aggravating to see people argue "this is how it was ect ect…." I would rather like to know how progress is being made and the way forward.


I also would like to add this post was made on 2 feb and the patch implimented 5 feb, sort of fast.. then again I might not be privy to other threads
 

Edited by Fassn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So i just spend hours out of my day for no reason...  thanks dude, i feel real appreciated now.

Quick get that man a hug! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wow, did I accidentally open up a can of 'tada-o portable pandora boxage', BIG, STRONG!, OMGITSEATINGMYACE!!!

 

:ph34r:

 

I wasn't even sure if it was a bug, or an intended change from live and was looking for feedback.  Gogo dev team !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ran another test today on a JD with the old server (pre-patch) and the patched server (patch 05.Feb.13) and compared the damage.

I was testing single shots, total damage over 30s, turbo buffs and chim debuffs.

 

The numbers from the pre-patch server and the post-patch server are absoletely the very same (except 1 damage-point in total based on floating roundings).

I consider it proven at this point since that damage did not change from pre-patch to post-patch within the optimal beam range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wow, did I accidentally open up a can of 'tada-o portable pandora boxage', BIG, STRONG!, OMGITSEATINGMYACE!!!

 

:ph34r:

 

I wasn't even sure if it was a bug, or an intended change from live and was looking for feedback.  Gogo dev team !

 

You are most hated person among Jenquais now... Beware of the assassins... Heard there is a bounty on your head...  :ph34r:  :D

Edited by SiSL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO, The Beam range to Damage ratio should not of be altered until the following were tested:

 

Beam Range Buffs (Devestating Gaze) was increaseing the Beam Range Damage (The Beams base range Damaged wasn't still the active Range).

 

Beam Damage Buffs (Titan's Heart) was indeed increasing the Damage after +50% range.

 

Coma Device is working correcting. (So the Jenquai could indeed get within the 50% beam range without dieing).

 

Improved Cloak is working correctly. (Reduces Cloaking Engage Time by 2.1 seconds (to a minimum of 3 seconds), makes the target harder to detect with See Cloaking, and increases Stealth Strike time when equipped.

 

As of the last patch the Jenquai have again become the weaker class in solo combat.

In a group, unless the Lead is a Jenquai we will not be a Good DPS factor if we can't get within the 50% range.

Well I guess it was just a matter of time.

 

Whom do we get to thank for this ? (Crichton) I'll see you after school ! :angry:

(Or The arena or PvP, oh wait we don't have one).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO, The Beam range to Damage ratio should not of be altered until the following were tested:

 

Beam Range Buffs (Devestating Gaze) was increaseing the Beam Range Damage (The Beams base range Damaged wasn't still the active Range).

 

Beam Damage Buffs (Titan's Heart) was indeed increasing the Damage after +50% range.

 

Coma Device is working correcting. (So the Jenquai could indeed get within the 50% beam range without dieing).

 

Improved Cloak is working correctly. (Reduces Cloaking Engage Time by 2.1 seconds (to a minimum of 3 seconds), makes the target harder to detect with See Cloaking, and increases Stealth Strike time when equipped.

 

As of the last patch the Jenquai have again become the weaker class in solo combat.

In a group unless the Lead is a Jenquai we will not be a Good DPS factor if we can't get within the 50% range.

Well I guess it was just a matter of time.

 

Whom do we get to thank for this ? (Crichton) I'll see you after school ! :angry:

(Or The arena or PvP, oh wait we don't have one).

Fine point, Phorlaug. I'll meet Crichton with you!

 

Even at 0.00, beams are hitting less, or not nearly as high. Feels like WoW with hunters all over again.

 

I still don't think damage should be adjusted until after max range of the individul weapon is reached; If it was like that in LIVE or not. If there are buffs to range, make the diminshing damage start there.

Edited by Madmac
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fine point, Phorlaug. I'll meet Crichton with you!

 

Even at 0.00, beams are hitting less, or not nearly as high. Feels like WoW with hunters all over again.

 

I still don't think damage should be adjusted until after max range of the individul weapon is reached; If it was like that in LIVE or not. If there are buffs to range, make the diminshing damage start there.

 

I fully agree with Madmac's idea.

 

-Overt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...