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Are the devs ever going to fix beam range?

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the jd should be and always has been the most powerful and highest damage dealer of all warrior classes in the game. a jd doesn't have a lvl 9 shield like the other warriors so he has to use stealth and tactics to get into a position to do that super damage quickly and then disappear. jd was never meant to go head to head with a mob or kite a mob altho to some extent he could start a battle kiting but would have to resort to the stealth attack tactics to survive it. due mostly to jequia engines having poor reverse thrust.

 

that being said the issue here seems to me to be with the proto beams (which I don't believe were in OL ) the max distance I was able to fire in OL as a maxed JD was just over 7k with the best equipment available and all the buffs. just inside my max summon range, so if i couldn't summon it i couldn't shoot it either (wether it could see me or not).also combat cloak only does the damage an unmoddified beam would do ( that is a 100% beams damage x2 even if your beams are 200%). if the proto beam is able to do damage at 8.19k as stated then the problem is this beam and it would not be an EXPLOIT if someone used them to their advantage, because someone allowed them to be in the game. as for damage 100% at max beam range that is as it was in live at lvl9 beams skill due to the skill buff of 200% damage, add a skill lvl modifier which is on some beams  and you can do 250% damage at max range.

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Lets see what shall I do with my time?   Fix group cloak bug, fix insta kill mobs, add new content, no lets think what can we nerf today.  You guys just dont get it, people are here to have fun, your not a corporation, but act like it.  Im not saying make it so people are gods in 1 week, but seriously leave things alone.  People want to have fun, not act like its work or a job, huting a month for a PB is not fun. Think about it.  Do you really care what people think or just what you think is right. If thats true why did you ever allow others to play YOUR game.

Edited by Fleson
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I think that when beam damage is fixed/nerfed I think that Improved Cloak items and
the Scan Blind items should be fixed with a noticeable effect on the mob.

They should go hand and hand don't you think ?
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You would think, but when it comes to stuff like that, nerf gets done right away.  Anything to help or correct errors are not on the top of their lists.   Their list 1) nerfs    2) exploits(fixing their mess ups)   3) bugs     4) content

Yeah looks about right

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JEs completely nerfed now. "That's how it was in live" is absolutely no defense when precious little else is as it was in live. Half the mobs in live didn't have ludicrous plasma deflects I can tell you that much. When will that get "fixed"? I wont hold my breath.

If I had one wish it would be that the connection issues that are blighting so many peoples gameplay every time they gate or wormhole were given priority over all else until resolved. If I didn't have to run task manager 50+ times every day I could probably grit my teeth and bear the rest :-(  

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"Projectiles are bullets plain and simple, they are aimed and travel towards target until striking and expelling their dmg, they don't make
course corrections during travel time, but becuase they don't have to carry fuel like a missle they have low mass, I.E. they travel much
faster, but have to be much closer since they lose velosity rapidly."

 

Actually. a projectile would NOT lose velocity rapidly.  Would not lose velocity at all.  Not any more than comet would or the Earth does as they travel through space.

 

They might lose velocity if close to a large body (planet or sun) an fired directly away from it.  But not much in space would slow it down. 

 

A large body might change it's direction...

Edited by GenghisBob

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Fleson do you ever do anything but bitch?

 

Checked post history just now, nope.

Just so you guys know, controller did not drop the core again. Could we please get this looked at.

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Weird, it did on the raid we were watching before the patch.  Alright, added to this weeks list.

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Just so you Devs know, the beam nerf worked great, other than the fact the ranges are messed up on mobs, sometimes range will say 2.3K but you can't debuff with a Lv9 Chim. it gives out of range message and Chim 9 has 3.5K range. Also some of the mobs move so fast you can't keep them close, thats ok we can summon, O wait, summon was nerfed also and I got a resist 5 straight attempts on that skill. So you guys have the nerfs down cold, it's just the other stuff that you don't.

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Fleson do you ever do anything but bitch?

 

Checked post history just now, nope.

If you did things right wouldnt have too.

checked patch history, yup.

Edited by Fleson
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Id love to volunteer and help, that would be awesome. The perspective of a player having input would be awesome. I appreciate the invite to help things become better for all.

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So why didnt you just nerf the proto range ? or am i missing some thing here. If uesing the proto beams are an exploit then nerf them.


Wait

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First point, No kidding. I remember how it was in live, but there are other things that need more attention than this. With a roll of the dice on the amount of damage delivered per shot, per beam, this isn't a good idea.

 

Your second point, Mobs take off in a given direction at high speed when hit by a coma. Try it and see. Go hit the RD base, GoBB, etc with it and see.

 

On Matt's discussion... We are talking about short distances for concentrated focused light and particle weapons. A few kilometers is no where near enough to disperse that much focused energy. Lasers today can maintain a cohesive beam for thousands of miles. All I am going to say about it. Yes, I have had a few physics classes, and I have other first hand (personal) sources on technology like this. Its not too difficult to understand.

 

Good, so you remember it worked that way. So that takes away the term 'nerf' and makes it 'fix'. Since a 'nerf' by its very definition is changing something simply to make it more difficult because of an oversight and this was simply a restoration of the mechanics from the original game.

 

Lets see what shall I do with my time?   Fix group cloak bug, fix insta kill mobs, add new content, no lets think what can we nerf today.  You guys just dont get it, people are here to have fun, your not a corporation, but act like it.  Im not saying make it so people are gods in 1 week, but seriously leave things alone.  People want to have fun, not act like its work or a job, huting a month for a PB is not fun. Think about it.  Do you really care what people think or just what you think is right. If thats true why did you ever allow others to play YOUR game.

 

Right, like we sit around looking for what to nerf next. That's asinine to say the least. We fix things as we go, as we find them, as they are brought up and we have fixes. Someone else in this thread mentioned fixing all the buffs and effects prior to doing something like this, i suppose you probably think along those lines too but I don't want to presume. Here's the deal: Some fixes take a lot less time. For example, this one, and some take months of work (buffs, effects, debuffs) because we are currently rewriting how all of this works within the game. 

 

We do get it, and despite your assertion, we ARE a corporation, although a non-profit one that spends our free time working on a game you play. If you don't like the fact that mechanics change, how in the world do you play MMOGs in general? This happens frequently in 'professional' games, and to boot you have very little contact with the developers of those. At least we occasionally take the time to post to you. If you think its too much like work, play something else because balance will win this argument when it comes time to examine a system. This will be true each and every time, even if in the short term it is detrimental to your ability to play as you like.
 

You would think, but when it comes to stuff like that, nerf gets done right away.  Anything to help or correct errors are not on the top of their lists.   Their list 1) nerfs    2) exploits(fixing their mess ups)   3) bugs     4) content

Yeah looks about right

 

Step 1:

See above about some fixes taking months where some fixes take 5-10 minutes.

 

Step 2:
Eat your own words.

 

Also, my staff tends to use the word 'bug' and 'exploit' interchangeably I've tried to discourage this. An exploit is the use of an in-game mechanic to gain an unfair advantage, a bug is simply incorrectly working systems. Your list there is spoken truly like someone who has no idea what's goin on, but then again you wouldn't because you're not doing it, you're just playing it and assuming every change takes minutes or just a couple of hours. This project has quite a numerous amount of source code files, and some fixes involve changes to multiple systems and lots of testing to ensure everything still works, and then sometimes we find out that under load they still break because we couldn't account for that. (see live)

 

Anyway, more simply put, you appear to not know what you're talking about, but then I wouldn't expect you to.

 

Just so you Devs know, the beam nerf worked great, other than the fact the ranges are messed up on mobs, sometimes range will say 2.3K but you can't debuff with a Lv9 Chim. it gives out of range message and Chim 9 has 3.5K range. Also some of the mobs move so fast you can't keep them close, thats ok we can summon, O wait, summon was nerfed also and I got a resist 5 straight attempts on that skill. So you guys have the nerfs down cold, it's just the other stuff that you don't.

 

Sorry, we didn't exactly get the source code for the client so some things are a bit of trial and error. As far as summon, it greatly depends on what you're trying to summon at this very moment. Something considerably higher than you, or a raid boss for example is EXPECTED to resist you on most attempts.

 

Id love to volunteer and help, that would be awesome. The perspective of a player having input would be awesome. I appreciate the invite to help things become better for all.

 

Really, what skills do you have to offer?

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Really, what skills do you have to offer?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure what exactly you want.    I figured he was looking for the perspective of players not on t e Dev team and their reactions to changes and maybe a fresh look at how some thing are good and some are maybe not whats really best.

Is that not whats needed here Kyp?

Edited by Fleson

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Fleson,

 

What you're describing is the Advocate position as I intended it, but with the exclusion of the first one, and now Uban, the others were simply MIA from the day they were elected til the day the next election occurred (in most cases)

 

What Stanig was telling you was volunteering for something like Content Development, Server Programming, and that like of task. That's the tedious work. Standing on a soapbox and bashing us because we don't magically fix everything overnight is all well and good, but it isn't realistic. :)

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Ok Kyp, I care about the game and I see posts, hear people talk and it gets frustrating.

Perfect example is the beam patch.   Says 0-50% of your range does full dmg.  That is wrong.  I was doing 220k dmg to a lvl 60 yesterday and now at .5k range I do 150k dmg.  That makes no sense and upsets people thinking your "nerfing" something.

I wish there was something I could do to help, I love this game like so many others and not all decisions might not really be best for the game.   Alot of people want to have fun and some patches or changes are making the game feel more like "work" not fun. 

That is just 1 example of how people can be turned away, why would you want to do things that make people just want to leave, thats how people get upset and frustrated at the team. People work their butts off all day in real lie and want to come here and get away and have "fun". how is spending weeks or your time hunting a plague bite or constatly making toons harder to level or fight, or getting killed tons of time for healer agro ever going to be fun.  I think they like small changes to adapt to things not these massive changes that unbalance their gameplay.  Because when It come down to it do you really care about the players here or is it just about what the devs want and "to XXXX with the players"?

if there is anything you dont understand or I might be wrong let me know, I want us both to be on the same page.

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Matsu, on 05 Feb 2013 - 20:10, said:snapback.png

Just
so you Devs know, the beam nerf worked great, other than the fact the
ranges are messed up on mobs, sometimes range will say 2.3K but you
can't debuff with a Lv9 Chim. it gives out of range message and Chim 9
has 3.5K range. Also some of the mobs move so fast you can't keep them
close, thats ok we can summon, O wait, summon was nerfed also and I got a
resist 5 straight attempts on that skill. So you guys have the nerfs
down cold, it's just the other stuff that you don't.


 


Sorry, we didn't exactly get the source code for the client so some
things are a bit of trial and error. As far as summon, it greatly
depends on what you're trying to summon at this very moment. Something
considerably higher than you, or a raid boss for example is EXPECTED to
resist you on most attempts.

 

Kyp, I have posted before if I could buy you guys a steak and a beer I would. Pretty much what you guys have done with nothing is amazing. The problem I have is, sense we are talking about it I will use the Beam damage at range as an example. WE all know many things in the game still needs work, as I mentioned range doesn't alway read correct, certain devices don't work correct. We all know these things but someone gets bent out of shape because beams shoot a long ways with a setup no one would really use.

 

So you nerf beams, why does summon have to have a resist, who really cares if they work 100% of the time. The toons were not balanced in original live, how you going to do it now. Just keep it fun Kyp, fix things as you get to them and don't worry about balance. Keep the game fun and don't nerf it to death. Real life is tough, the game should be fun not frustrating. You have a couple of hours to play, you don't feel like grouping, you don't really want to work against regular mobs.  Raids are different, make them tough, honestly I love some of the raid changes you guys have made.

 

I don't like seeing all the negative posts Kyp, it bothers me. You guys work hard, but people are flustered. We want the game great as much as you guys do. Just ask for help and tell us what we can do, I bet you would be surprised at the response. I have rambled enough man, I promise you 99% of these posts mean no disrespect. Just flustered players is all.

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Ok Fleson, step up and do it then.  If you are so critical and so on, step up and DO SOMETHING FOR THE PROJECT other than tear down the few people actually putting the goddamned thing together in the first place.

 

Seriously.  All the other guys in this thread present in a way that is at least SOMEWHAT constructive at a minimum.  All you do is BAHH BOO HOO WHINE CRY ITS BAAAD

 

Step up and do some of the drudge trudgery, you wouldnt last a day dude.

 

Seriously, PM Kyp, right now.  Do it, PM him and volunteer to show us all how its done, keep in mind this isnt fun and flowers, its tedious pain in the ass work.

But..but..he is doing what a JD/JE does...He is sniping from the side lines, shooting and then hiding.....this is about the beam nerf right? :) He wanted to snipe from long range and never be seen, now with the nerf we see him and his snipes and he don't like it....fix it now damn it now now now! :)

 

You know.....I remember when the PW got nerfed into the ground, I remember when the PP got nerfed into the ground, when the PW/PP groused about it, the Jenny players said (in effect, if not actually) "suck it up, you have it to good all the time anyway, it's about time we Jenny get a bone, not you, quit your crying." Well they were the benificiaries of those nerfs that progen got, they didn't get the "tweeks" the progen "enjoyed" at the time, the progen said back in effect, "wait until your turn comes, you are going to get a nerfle bat at some point, and you will get to "enjoy" the pain we do, as we are now."

 

Well some point is now, and your turn has come, are you "enjoying" it as the Progen did without your sympathy?

 

Just say'n.... :popcorn:

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But..but..he is doing what a JD/JE does...He is sniping from the side lines, shooting and then hiding.....this is about the beam nerf right? :) He wanted to snipe from long range and never be seen, now with the nerf we see him and his snipes and he don't like it....fix it now damn it now now now! :)

 

You know.....I remember when the PW got nerfed into the ground, I remember when the PP got nerfed into the ground, when the PW/PP groused about it, the Jenny players said (in effect, if not actually) "suck it up, you have it to good all the time anyway, it's about time we Jenny get a bone, not you, quit your crying." Well they were the benificiaries of those nerfs that progen got, they didn't get the "tweeks" the progen "enjoyed" at the time, the progen said back in effect, "wait until your turn comes, you are going to get a nerfle bat at some point, and you will get to "enjoy" the pain we do, as we are now."

 

Well some point is now, and your turn has come, are you "enjoying" it as the Progen did without your sympathy?

 

Just say'n.... :popcorn:

Your responses add nothing to the conversations and make no sense. Not a soul has asked to be able to snipe anything and I dont know anyone that plays his Jen that way.

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But..but..he is doing what a JD/JE does...He is sniping from the side lines, shooting and then hiding.....this is about the beam nerf right? :) He wanted to snipe from long range and never be seen, now with the nerf we see him and his snipes and he don't like it....fix it now damn it now now now! :)

 

 

 

Not talking about the range, but the dmg, within 50% of your range wasnt supposed to change but im doing 31%less dmg. Where is stated a change.

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Ok Kyp, I care about the game and I see posts, hear people talk and it gets frustrating.

Perfect example is the beam patch.   Says 0-50% of your range does full dmg.  That is wrong.  I was doing 220k dmg to a lvl 60 yesterday and now at .5k range I do 150k dmg.  That makes no sense and upsets people thinking your "nerfing" something.

I wish there was something I could do to help, I love this game like so many others and not all decisions might not really be best for the game.   Alot of people want to have fun and some patches or changes are making the game feel more like "work" not fun. 

That is just 1 example of how people can be turned away, why would you want to do things that make people just want to leave, thats how people get upset and frustrated at the team. People work their butts off all day in real lie and want to come here and get away and have "fun". how is spending weeks or your time hunting a plague bite or constatly making toons harder to level or fight, or getting killed tons of time for healer agro ever going to be fun.  I think they like small changes to adapt to things not these massive changes that unbalance their gameplay.  Because when It come down to it do you really care about the players here or is it just about what the devs want and "to XXXX with the players"?

if there is anything you dont understand or I might be wrong let me know, I want us both to be on the same page.

 

Our range checks may be a bit off, might be worth noting that the game client considers the target at the very center of the model, so for example in the case of the Nagifar (because its so large) it can appear as if you're in range by sight, but you aren't because the center of the model is back somewhere in its throat. That's one of those things we have to try to work with since we don't have the original code for the client.

 

Remember that the term 'fun' is different for everyone. Some people prefer a distinct challenge, look at the subscribers Final Fantasy XI had for an example. That game was nothing short of impossibly difficult from 2003-2009 when I quit playing it. You couldn't get groups a lot of times unless you were perfectly geared, and so on, yet many people found it fun. Each play style is different, some like things to be easy and quick some like things that take forever. I've had plenty of compliments sent to me regarding Byakhee's Agrippa line, which is the perfect example of this.

 

We want those rare loots like the plague bite to have meaning, once there's enough plague bites out there, its not special anymore. That's why game developers make high end items more rare, it isn't to make it a grind, but to give you that incredibly good feeling when you finally score that loot, and I'm sure you know exactly what I'm referring to.

 

I'm sorry that it unbalances your gameplay, but you know the saying about breaking a few eggs, right? This is what you have to do when developing, without changing and seeing the results, you can't perfect. Making a game is a lot like sculpture, you carve away until you have your final result.

 

Its simply a lack of grasp on what development is like, because the typical player thinks that all changes are minute/quick and frequently they are not. Look at the recent player object re-work because of the server crashes after the live announcement. We had figured out the problem within 2 days, the resulting work to clean it up is STILL ongoing but it is moving along at a fair pace.

 

Matsu, on 05 Feb 2013 - 20:10, said:snapback.png


 


Sorry, we didn't exactly get the source code for the client so some
things are a bit of trial and error. As far as summon, it greatly
depends on what you're trying to summon at this very moment. Something
considerably higher than you, or a raid boss for example is EXPECTED to
resist you on most attempts.

 

Kyp, I have posted before if I could buy you guys a steak and a beer I would. Pretty much what you guys have done with nothing is amazing. The problem I have is, sense we are talking about it I will use the Beam damage at range as an example. WE all know many things in the game still needs work, as I mentioned range doesn't alway read correct, certain devices don't work correct. We all know these things but someone gets bent out of shape because beams shoot a long ways with a setup no one would really use.

 

So you nerf beams, why does summon have to have a resist, who really cares if they work 100% of the time. The toons were not balanced in original live, how you going to do it now. Just keep it fun Kyp, fix things as you get to them and don't worry about balance. Keep the game fun and don't nerf it to death. Real life is tough, the game should be fun not frustrating. You have a couple of hours to play, you don't feel like grouping, you don't really want to work against regular mobs.  Raids are different, make them tough, honestly I love some of the raid changes you guys have made.

 

I don't like seeing all the negative posts Kyp, it bothers me. You guys work hard, but people are flustered. We want the game great as much as you guys do. Just ask for help and tell us what we can do, I bet you would be surprised at the response. I have rambled enough man, I promise you 99% of these posts mean no disrespect. Just flustered players is all.

 

I know Matsu, and I have had a player psychology class, don't worry about insulting me. I know what to expect :) This is why I am not so quick to lose a temper when I see these posts. Now, on to the meat of your post: No, the toons were not balanced in original live, because if they were, half the skills you're using to having would be on some of the other classes. Hull Patch is a perfect example, it was going to be the sole provision of the Terran Scout originally. EA cut the 3 extra classes from the time they took ownership, and the remaining development changed the classes you all came to know once the game was 'live'. 

 

Read above about the range, and the client models regarding what you're saying about the beams. It is not an exact science. Although I must say that statement "fix things as you get to them, and don't worry about the balance" wouldn't work for any other profession, why for a game developer? (The example popping into my mind was a carpenter, but also "One does not build a castle upon sand."). In some cases fixes build OFF OF other fixes. So in those cases, we make fixes and make the bigger fixes later. 

 

I'm sure you guys would love to help, the sad part is other than reporting bugs there's very little you can do other than write content or server programming. It is a common misconception that being a content developer requires code, it doesn't, those of us that can program built tools for it, but it seems like every time I do ask for volunteers I get a bunch of requests to join, but then when it comes time to do the work they're nowhere to be found. This as well as expecting access to everything the day they start, which doesn't happen round here.

 

Then sometimes when people join the team they think they can actually cheat the system, but they can't and they get caught and I have to kick them out. I even had one once that tried changing his name to avoid being caught. Still no dice. Suffice it to say that's happened more than once. There are logs of EVERYTHING that happens in the server, and given a reason to look we can find out just about anything if the server took action with it there are very few exceptions around that, and certainly NONE when it comes to items, credits, and staff commands. If an item is created through normal means for example, it will have a log for being manufactured. If it's traded to another player, there's another log and so on and so on.

 

At any rate, back to the subject at hand. If I had talented individuals that wanted to write story and content and are willing to do the requisite documentation (it's called development WORK for a reason) that would help, or people who could program at a minimum of intermediate level in C++ or C# that would be something too. Unfortunately very few come forward that possess those skills, the drive to do it, and actually stay to help for the long-haul.

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Your responses add nothing to the conversations and make no sense. Not a soul has asked to be able to snipe anything and I dont know anyone that plays his Jen that way.

I guess you missed the analogy, "sniping from the sidelines" is something said when someone always complains about something with no constructive input. They "snipe" ideas. I was making a joke about Stanig saying fleson's posts were always negative and never constructive. Since the thread is Jenny all freaking about beam range.....I pointed out that he can't snipe now without someone knowing who he is....double meaning,   seeing him here and on mobs. Then i went on to point out that the Jen are now experiencing (with little sympathy) what the progen already went through, now they are getting little sympathy as well in kind.

 

ST4 I played my Jen that way, who wouldn't like to sit back totally out of range of a mob and kill it rapidly with no risk to yourself? Thats what a terran is suppost to do with ML, up till now the Jen have been able to as well, that oversight has been corrected, the Jen that got used to being able to fight at 100% to full beam range dislike that, SORRY you don't like that, I play Jen's too. But the fact is, we got the benefit of a unintented effect for several ST and now in Live, thye have finally got around to addressing that, sorry you don't like it, but it is as it should be.

 

Not talking about the range, but the dmg, within 50% of your range wasnt supposed to change but im doing 31%less dmg. Where is stated a change.

I guess you misunderstood how it did work and is intended to work, let me enlighten you.

fro 0-50% of your beam range it is a hard 100% dmg +/- skill/device modifiers. At 50%+ range it is a fall off of dmg STARTING at -50%. Old Live (tm) at max range it wasn't -50% dmg it was -66%!

They have put it as live as possible, if they got it right you will see: 100%@ <= -1/2 range, 50%@ => +1/2 range, and somewere about 3/4 range 33% dmg. Got it?

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