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I have the feeling programing and balancing are the easy part,  separating the kids on the playground is the toughy

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I just gated on my Seeker and my JE just followed him though.  This is great, but I'm guessing this means the multi-boxers are either being dealt with in another way or are now being given free rein.

 

What choice was made?  Being a player that plays 2 characters, this is a matter that I'd like to stay informed on.

 

PS.  Alowing me to gate with me JE is nice.  I'm probably not why its been put back in the way it was, but I thank you none the less.

Edited by Spotlore

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To auto gate, your toon has to have the other side of the gate mapped.  Basically if your JE had never been through that gate before, he would have to push the button.

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Is anything going to be done about people who continue to recycle alts for exploration? It's 2 seconds of work to manually form up with 6 characters. That was the argument for this change but the issue still isn't fixed.

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Is anything going to be done about people who continue to recycle alts for exploration? It's 2 seconds of work to manually form up with 6 characters. That was the argument for this change but the issue still isn't fixed.

 

Second that.  I multibox, not to exploit, but to be able to play all 9 professions.  People just group multiboxers with cheaters, and I have strong objection to that. 

The penalty for the way I play is that my toons level slowly.  There is a gal/guy JE in my Guild that I have built a lv3 Solar Sail for from my TE lv75 at the time; for a JE to need lv3 engine, she was probably lv30-40 at the time, but now is already at lv150, compared to my TE who built that SS for her (currently at lv110, and I play some 6-8 hours daily).

 

But I digress.  Kudoes to the devs for restoring the auto-gate feature for me, but I agree, that does not seem to deter the cheaters.  I would think the devs should impose a timeout period for deleting a character same as moving an avatar from account to account.  (With that said, I made a mistake of moving a char to the wrong account, and now will be stuck with it for the next 6 months :-)  ).

Edited by VincentTH

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Second that.  I multibox, not to exploit, but to be able to play all 9 professions.  People just group multiboxers with cheaters, and I have strong objection to that. 

The penalty for the way I play is that my toons level slowly.  There is a gal/guy JE in my Guild that I have built a lv3 Solar Sail for from my TE lv75 at the time; for a JE to need lv3 engine, she was probably lv30-40 at the time, but now is already at lv150, compared to my TE who built that SS for her (currently at lv110, and I play some 6-8 hours daily).

 

But I digress.  Kudoes to the devs for restoring the auto-gate feature for me, but I agree, that does not seem to deter the cheaters.  I would think the devs should impose a timeout period for deleting a character same as moving an avatar from account to account.  (With that said, I made a mistake of moving a char to the wrong account, and now will be stuck with it for the next 6 months :-)  ).

It's all on how you play... JE's have the easiest time getting to 150 by far. Jobs can get you to 150 in less than a month.

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Its an elegant solution IMO. It would be nice to allow 2 through the gate, but understand if you choose not to.

 

Good Job.

 

-Overt.

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IMO, most elegant solution has been found and devs fixed it that way...

 

Thank you devs, I can't think of no-other better option without crippling or nerfing group exploration xp...

 

I never find touring as exploit with real live unique people, exploit that devs meant was touring your own 6 toons. They don't want to cripple exploration xp for real people, they just don't want 6 toon of same people exploiting the system "easily". And that's what they did. Now person who will do that has to switch his all 6 screens to press gate button, which slowed this down and made this option cumbersome and boring. Only a few really desperate person will do such thing unless they have pro multibox equipment because of all gates and 6 screen switches. 

 

As always community really does not know what they really want... They might just get it and does not mean they are going to like it when they start their next toon...

Edited by SiSL

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IMO, most elegant solution has been found and devs fixed it that way...

 

Thank you devs, I can't think of no-other better option without crippling or nerfing group exploration xp...

 

But this change did not fix the issue. That is my point. You can still run 5 disposable alts and powerlevel exploration. It has not been stated as a TOS violation and no mechanics prevent a player from doing this. So if both of these things are true, why make the change? I posted a possible solution of limiting the creation of characters to 5-10 a day per IP address. No normal player should ever need more than that in a single day and it's a far more elegant solution that limits the behavior they want to prevent while not punishing normal players.

 

I never find touring as exploit with real live unique people, exploit that devs meant was touring your own 6 toons. They don't want to cripple exploration xp for real people, they just don't want 6 toon of same people exploiting the system "easily". And that's what they did. Now person who will do that has to switch his all 6 screens to press gate button, which slowed this down and made this option cumbersome and boring. Only a few really desperate person will do such thing unless they have pro multibox equipment because of all gates and 6 screen switches. 

 

I made a video so you can see how "cumbersome" disabling multi-gating really is. This is with 6 clients running at 800x600 on a monitor running 1920x1080 with no 3rd party tools. Just 6 fresh clients and an old fashioned keyboard and mouse. I'll let you decide if this change really prevents what the Devs want to stop...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yRx_onXLIg

 

As always community really does not know what they really want... They might just get it and does not mean they are going to like it when they start their next toon...

 

The community does know what it wants. It wants to prevent an obvious loophole in the exploration system. However, the changes made by the Devs have not done anything to prevent it. They have only limited the gameplay of legitimate players, even if very minimal.

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I'll let you decide if this change really prevents what the Devs want to stop...

Disabling auto gating into unexplored system was not meant to prevent using 5 disposable alts for explore xp.

 

Using disposable alts that way is very old. Auto gate only brought it to masses, because it required no more effort than warping single character around.

 

 

The community does know what it wants. It wants to prevent an obvious loophole in the exploration system.

Only solution for that is to either remove group explore xp, or limit explore level range like combat xp is.

 

You suggestion of limiting char creation is good too, but like denying auto gate to unexplored system, it only slows it down and does not stop it.

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IMO, most elegant solution has been found and devs fixed it that way...
 
Thank you devs, I can't think of no-other better option without crippling or nerfing group exploration xp...
 
I never find touring as exploit with real live unique people, exploit that devs meant was touring your own 6 toons. They don't want to cripple exploration xp for real people, they just don't want 6 toon of same people exploiting the system "easily". And that's what they did. Now person who will do that has to switch his all 6 screens to press gate button, which slowed this down and made this option cumbersome and boring. Only a few really desperate person will do such thing unless they have pro multibox equipment because of all gates and 6 screen switches. 
 
As always community really does not know what they really want... They might just get it and does not mean they are going to like it when they start their next toon...

 

+1 I too think it was a neat way of solving the problem :)

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They (I presume) don't want to limit the amount of toons you can have, they like to multi also at times. But the whole multigate thing was a cool feature they thought up and implimented. However, as always, a few jerks had to take a good thing and turn it to shart. To stop rewarding them for that, they fixed it so unexplored area toons couldn't gate at same time, thus taking at least that extra ease of use from those same jerks.

 

Nothing previously made it impossible for someone to "exploit" explore xp farming from new toons, and in reality, how much is really going on via multiboxing? New toons are slow, they don't have the gear to go fast. So a newly created "disposable" xp farming toon isn't really exploited too much IMO (I might be wrong, I don't do it and without stats to the contrary I can only presume). So the hassle of multiboxing a group through the gates kind of discouraged them, while allowing those that aren't actually exploiting it to enjoy a new feature.

 

Your idea about limiting toon creation to X per day might stop that, but really:

A. Can it be done without client altering? (WW/EA never had a timer on how often you could wipe/create a toon) is there structure there...a "timer" to check against toon creation to activate?

B. Do they want to even bother doing so when there are other priorities..I.E. is there a sense of urgency to plug this loophole, is it's use agregious enough?

C. Is it really being abused enough in truth stat wise to need a addressing?

 

If A,B,C are true, than yes it should be done, it's a good idea.

 

Think it through though, how slow are new toons? What hassle is it to explore slowly with the having to gate each one through sector gate and reform? Once you got the "disposable" toon leveled, farming for the group leader, is it really being disposed of, are they really tossing a L30 toon to start another group of 5x L1 to do it all over again even slower? I can mine for faster XP solo than go through all that hassle of multiboxing a explore group...why bother?

 

Just a thought...

 

P.S. I'm not endorcing multibox explore faming, nor explaining it away or trying to be an enabler of it, if you are one of those folks..you are a Scumbag.

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When creating a new account a person may want to create all 5 characters at once just so they are sure they can get the names they want before someone else uses them.

 

Other players, after playing a new character for a few hours/days, may decide that this isn't a class they want to play and 're-creates' the toon as another class.

 

While touring 5 new toons for 2 to 3 hours may raise the newbee toons by 25-30 explore levels, the tour guild goes up by only 4-6 levels.

 

I live, not many people had 6 accounts so exactly this wasn't a problem. But, I did hear of guilds where 6 people would create disposo-toons to level guild mates when needed.  It is not new, while almost everyone has been aware of it, very few do it.  Most offer to be a guide to other 'real' new toons.

 

I, don't see how someone else doing this is ruining 'your' game play.  It is not a competition among players.  If it is, the guys playing 6-8 hours a day (or more) are going to win no matter what you do.

 

Sorry, just a bunch of jumbled thoughts to say, I thing you are over reacting and your changes may upset other parts of the game.

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So again I ask, why was the change made then? It doesn't slow down people doing explore tours with alts. All it does is make tours with 6 real players harder.

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Not really, all it does to real players is make it be 'not unattended.' :) (and it damn well shouldn't be unattended, since you're gaining experience)

 

It just creates a bit of hassle for those who would use that, and as far as whether or not we could limit toons made in a day, sure. That wouldn't be difficult at all, but it is an artificial limit to stop a problem that as you yourselves suggest isn't horrible, its just meant to be ease of use for players who do play the game as its intended.

 

As far as the numbers who multibox, it isn't nearly as high as some people think. Unique IPs are rather higher than one might think. 

 

If we wanted to stop it flat out, it would be an implementation of a character creation limit, disabling auto-gate for unexplored destinations, AND limiting experience within a level range. Not either or, you can take it as you get it, or we can render it mostly useless, your choice. We put it in as a convenience, some folks decided to go too far with it, and we don't WANT to limit your ability to create & delete toons. That being said, it isn't that we don't read or don't care, but we think this is the best choice for the problem without implementing too many man-hours to fix something we implemented as a convenience.

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The only way to truly fix exploiting in an MMO is to ban the exploiters.  Only way you are going to stop it.  No game can be 100% exploit free, there will always be "Kids" who have to try and cheat.  Some do it just to find the exploit and report the problem, and do not use it to level, then there are the people that just have to get to max level using the easiest way possible.  They normally chest thump and such..

 

Exploits are in all games, you'll never get rid of them all.  Just like a game will never be 100% bug free, you fix 1 bug, 2 more popup that the 1 was hiding. 

 

Like I said, the only 100% way to get rid of exploiting is ban those that abuse it.  Trying to fix them all in the code, just will never happen.

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You're absolutely right Rum, but that doesn't mean we don't try, otherwise games in general would never be fixed at all.

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(With that said, I made a mistake of moving a char to the wrong account, and now will be stuck with it for the next 6 months :-)  ).

FYI Vincent, this was changed a few weeks back.  You can now move toons again after 30 days, not 180 like before.

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You're absolutely right Rum, but that doesn't mean we don't try, otherwise games in general would never be fixed at all.

Haha I never said people don't try! :)  We programmers always try for that mecca of bug free code, but achieving it is something else.

 

All MMO's try to be 100% exploit free, but then that just challenges those that seek exploits.

 

Remember, when we programmers make something dummy proof, they come along with a better dummy :)

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