Assisted Target

[SiSL]

WARNING: This is not an original idea and rip-off from other games and name may be misleading...

 

 

For many utility & heal classes, it gets really hard to find correct target on multi-mob enviroments especially 'super flashy combat effect' games like this...

 

- Utility class targets mob

- Any negative effective buffs, attacks or skills goes to mob

- Any positive effects and skills goes to whichever player is on mob's top attack list. (aka whoever mob is attacking)

 

That helps mostly on small groups while utility keep contributing to DPS over mob, they can also assist to whoever mob turned to. Wtih healing taking aggro , other classes can contribute healing the healer or take aggro back with their debuffs / skills / damage etc.

 

This is as far as I know a standard in LOTRO and EQ2 as help for healing & utility classes to keep eye on tanks and other DPS classes for situation saver..

 

 

 

 

 

[Zackman [LDEV]]

If you click the little target cross icon on the group members name in the group-name-list, you are targeting the target of this member.

That what you are looking for?

[GenghisBob]

And click on the group member name on the right to target them.  Yes, it does require you to change targets as you change buffs/debuffs.  Everything is not automagically done for you.  YOU have to play the game.  :-)

[Mattsacre]

I think (if i understand it) what SiSL is asking for is a "hard target" designation ability, a way to predesignate a target that goes to that target when you perform a skill/function.

 

example (if i'm reading it right): You are the groups primary tank healer...you preselect as so, every time you hit heal it detargets the mob and retargets you on the tank, from the tanks panel you can then reselect tanks target. If you were the off-healer, you preselected the targets that were your heal responsibility, excluding those that aren't yours, so that you didnt get them in your target auto switch retarget for heal, you would select the redirect  target hiarchy in order of importance.

 

There is indeed that little crosshair button to target your targets target, but also can say its a tiny little button at times, especially in the heat of battle and in multigrouped situations.:)

 

I also think SiSL expanded on wanting it to be able to preselect on mobs as well.

 

example: you are primary group buffer, but when you hit a skill thats a debuff, it retargets automaticly to your preselected target to debuff mob.

 

There once again is the tiny button to target mob through your beneficial buff targets......

 

I don't know if what (I think) SiSL is asking for, or even if others want it (some might call that lazy) but I would desire something that other MMO have, ways to resize group member target panes so that tiny button can become a big button for us bumble fingered folks.

 

And another thing (I doubt doable due to client limits) addable and removeable target panes, so in a raid you can add more target panes to help you keep an eye on other raid members and be able to throw in the odd heal/buff to other groups when you see them going down, perhaps at least support their healer or JS'er so they can get back on their feet. It is very difficult in a target rich, raid environment, or multigrouped setting to target on specific player/mob targets to do your job at times.....

 

I guess what SiSL is asking for (and on some I concur) is more group targeting utility. I realize client can't be altered...just a item on a wish list.

[Hobbs]

/agree      Would like a bigger button, hope it can be done

[SiSL]

If you click the little target cross icon on the group members name in the group-name-list, you are targeting the target of this member.

That what you are looking for?

Not at all...

 

What I am saying is basically targeted mob is being proxy to beneficial skills / buffs while taking debuffs and attack skills on it.

 

And Matt no, it is not anything like preselected or auto change of target etc. Just seamless proxied (and what I am suggesting is not really client side) 

 

As example:

 

Let's say group of 6

 

1. PW (Tanking and taking all agro over)

2. TT (Healer)

3. JW (DPS)

4. TE (DPS)

5. JE (Utility)

6. PS (Utility)

 

Group is fighting to 1 big mob...

 

Everyone targeting mob...

 

Scenerio:

 

1. PW has all aggro and taking massive hits.

2. TT's target is mob and when TT press heal over mob, it heals currently mob's target (aka PW)

3. At this moment TE used Anger or overdps'd and mob turned to TE

4. TT's target is still mob itself and when TT press heal, it heals now currently mob's target (aka TW)

 

 

Here, TT never changed target, always target was mob, when TT used beneficial skill like healing, it healed mob's target (aka whoever on top of list of mobs aggro list)

 

 

Another scenerio opposite way:

 

 

1. TT targeting PW who is top aggroer currently...

2. PW is healed when heal ability used and when TT fires weapons while target is still PW, weapon fire hits PW's target mob...

 

 

OR 

 

1. JW targeting PW 

2. Attacking of his beams would hit mob (because mob is PW's target) (and ofcourse facing / range limitations is still calculated normally towards mob. still applies) 

3. Uses Enemy Fold space on PW, proxied to mob because enemy fold space is an attack skill, so mob is folded (because mob is PW's target)

 

 

 

 

 

Let's explain in program schema (would be easier  than english really)

 

If ((Beneficial skill use || Good Buff) && Target == Player) {

  Use skill on "Target Player"

}

 

If ((Debuff use || Harming skill use || Fire) && Target == Player) {

  Use skill/buff/fire on "Target's target mob"

}

 

 

 

If ((Beneficial skill use || Good Buff) && Target == Mob) {

  Use skill on "Target Mob's target: Player"

}

 

If ((Debuff use || Harming skill use || Fire) && Target == Mob) {

  Use skill/buff/fire on "Target mob itself"

}

 

And other details such:

 

If ((Debuff use || Harming skill use || Fire) && Target == Player && Target's target == mob) {

  Send client that can be fired & attack / debuff skills can be used; will be proxied to mob;

}

 

If ((Beneficial skill use || Good Buff) && Target == Mob && Target's target == player) {

  Send client that beneficial buffs, skills can be used; will be proxied to target's target player;

}

 

 

Basically using mob as proxy for beneficials heals to mob's target OR using player as proxy for harming skills to player's target... All without changing the clicked target... Currently what that little icon does is just changing target's to player's target... 

 

 

And thus helping greatly especially on multi-mob enviroment, changing targets player and back, or keeping up with different mobs, a good order of combat; keeping the main tank, utility, healer hyerarchy in disciplined... 

 

As I said, we've seen and used this functions of other MMO's, which helped greatly especially small to large groups, and especially in raids; helped keeping eye always on the tanks health, while calculating aggro range and without confuse on going back to mob target and restore target back to tanks etc.

Edited January 29, 2013 by SiSL

[efialtis]

I dont like this idea at all and i'll explain why.

 

Being a good healer or support class in a raid environment with multiple enemy and friendly targets should be a challenge in itself.

This mechanic will nullify any effort the player has to make to be effective at what he is tasked to do. Its sort of an easy win shortcut.

 

Be good at what you do, learn your class and know exactly when to press the heal button and to which target. Keep an eye out for members of other groups that take damage and try to help them when your own group is in the clear.

 

Furthermore i see great potential for abuse. Multiboxers will just set up a macro that says heal every 15secs and debuff every 60 secs and be able to solo content they are not supposed to and then we'll have the yelling and name calling we are all so fond of.

[Zackman [LDEV]]

Hi,

 

i doubt that will hapen since it would need a major rewrite of a lot of checks currently done (valid target for skills, buffs, weapons, defaulting to self on self skills etc etc). and there is no really a need for that since it will take the action away (imho) - seems like it's taking away "the sweat in a hot fight" and resulting in not even knowing what im shooting cuz the server does it for me.

[SiSL]

I dont like this idea at all and i'll explain why.

 

Being a good healer or support class in a raid environment with multiple enemy and friendly targets should be a challenge in itself.

This mechanic will nullify any effort the player has to make to be effective at what he is tasked to do. Its sort of an easy win shortcut.

 

Furthermore i see great potential for abuse. Multiboxers will just set up a macro that says heal every 15secs and debuff every 60 secs and be able to solo content they are not supposed to and then we'll have the yelling and name calling we are all so fond of.

 

I really like to watch others fighting and lots of multiboxers I met, watching them cloaked often... If you do that, you learn how they act too... Well, multiboxers & most TT's already covering that spamming "Area heals" which nullifies challange you speak of... With Area heals there, you don't even need to target. Sit there & spam area heal is not also much of a challange either imo...

Edited January 29, 2013 by SiSL

[SiSL]

Hi,

 

i doubt that will hapen since it would need a major rewrite of a lot of checks currently done (valid target for skills, buffs, weapons, defaulting to self on self skills etc etc). and there is no really a need for that since it will take the action away (imho) - seems like it's taking away "the sweat in a hot fight" and resulting in not even knowing what im shooting cuz the server does it for me.

Aye, that's why it is a suggestion :) It may be possible, or it may not be :)

 

Still good to have a brainstorm...  

 

On the other hand, on action side I'm not with you, it does not really takes action but gets targeting errors and errors on organization of groups (due to non-native english often) that can happen on a moment of distraction to lesser degree only. 

 

I'm always for "lesser click" to save from carpal tunnel, finger tendons & tediousness... (Hey, we are not young anymore)

 

While at it, can we get components as manufacture all like refines? :)  <-- such as this one :)

Edited January 29, 2013 by SiSL

[Kindschi]

If you click the little target cross icon on the group members name in the group-name-list, you are targeting the target of this member.

That what you are looking for?

Not sure how hard or if this is even possible but can you make a shortcut for this feature? The little crosshairs are small. We have a shortcut key to form when the leader has created a formation and that button is way bigger then the crosshairs button and its rarely used since most people dont break formation while fighting, on the other hand when you fighting the group leader is constantly selecting a new target and while there is a shortcut for nearest mob (F8) sometimes the nearest to the leader is not the nearest to the person on the left or right of him so this is not a real effective way of knowing your both on the same target.  Would be nice to be able to hit an F# key or just any key on thats not already being used as a shortcut to target whatever the group leader has targeted.

 

Thanks.

-WT

[Gonzo]

Great suggestion WT.  Would love this.

[Elrick[IS]]

All, 

 

First and foremost thank you for suggestions like this one - this is exactly the sort of thing we need to see more of. 

 

The requested functionality will be implemented in a somewhat limited way with tomorrows patch. Specifically:

 

Syntax: /assist <player>

Function: This command will automatically give you the named players target in the same way that clicking the grouped players "Target This group members target" functions. 

 

There are a few limitations however: 

1. The player you will be assisting (and his target) must be in range. 
2. Without a major re-write we cannot implement the skill type determination. So this will help attackers but will not assist healers or other support units. 
3. There is also a /noassist command which will allow you to stop other from /assisting you. This will hopefully stop this command from being used in support of Kill Stealing. 
4. We are also limiting this so that you cannot assist someone on the same IP address as yourself (so another toon you are multi-boxing on). This is an intentional limitation to restrict the utility of this command to those using macros.

So for example: 

Player 1 Multiboxing: Toon A & B

Player 2 : Toon C

Player 3 : Toon D

 

A can assist C and D but not B. 

B can assist C and D but no A. 

C can assist A, B, or D

D can assist A, B, or C

 

Clear as mud? :)

[SiSL]

Granted and thank you. This will help player groups & raids accordingly...

 

However, one thing is not clear... As a healer  for instance, if I target tank, I can shoot at mob and heal my target at same time?

 

While this is greatly limiting (being on command base initiation) hopefully to see more improvements and less limitiation over this in future... 

[Elrick[IS]]

The only thing the command does it take the target of the person you choose to assist. All other functions remain the same. So healing while targeting a mob will heal yourself (standard heal) or your group (group heal). 

 

El

[SiSL]

The only thing the command does it take the target of the person you choose to assist. All other functions remain the same. So healing while targeting a mob will heal yourself (standard heal) or your group (group heal). 

 

El

 

Ah thank you, assist command will only change target's target... And will not need for re-targeting... Basically will be superb for raid leaders for next attack target for DPS's.. Thank you...

 

While I find IP restriction meaningless, since you allow multiboxing, If (ever) there will be major re-write in future without limitations, path to follow here ;) https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/8414-assisted-target/?p=72693

Edited April 23, 2013 by SiSL

[GenghisBob]

Do you have to re-issue this command when the leader changes his target?  Or, does your target change when his changes?

 

Whichever, this will be very helpful.

[efialtis]

I suspect you have to reissue command at each target change of the person you want to assist. But you can put it in a message slot and recall it instantly when that happens.

As i understand it you can do it for a person in a different group as long as he is in range.

What defines range pls? About 5k like autofollow?

[Elrick[IS]]

Correct - it is a one time effect, not a target lock. You will need to re-issue it when there is a need to change targets.