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Faction Gain/Loss while grouping

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As of now, the only person that takes a faction hit is the person that does the most damage.  We need to fix this as there are people that defiantly contribute to a group and get no credit.  IE: JE buffs, Shield Leach, Shield Recharging, etc etc etc....

 

The percentage faction hit should be evened out depending on how many in group, not who does the most damage.  I know Teinbau had discussed it in a general chat one evening when he recently returned and said it was an easy fix.  If it's so easy, then why not do it?

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When you say "fix", you imply it's broken on Emu - so you say it was like that in live, that a group killing a faction mob was getting the faction hit equally splitted?

 

Because the way it is on Emu is intended - and i remember it being that way on live too: That only the most damager got the faction hit. I remember this from live because i joined Mordana Raids often and took care about not doing the most damage so my faction wasn't taking a hit.

 

Just to clarify:

Do you remember a different behaviour from live or is this a suggestion you are making? I'm confused cause the word broken means it not working like it was on live - but this posting is under suggestions - you see my confusion?  :P

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Because the way it is on Emu is intended - and i remember it being that way on live too: That only the most damager got the faction hit. I remember this from live because i joined Mordana Raids often and took care about not doing the most damage so my faction wasn't taking a hit.

You mean that healers in Mordana raid can stay green even after 1000'th raid? That sounds like exploit ;-)

 

Ofcourse parking your alts in range and grinding faction with higher level char sounds like exploit too.

 

How about if you in group that does most aggro and get > 0 XP for it you get faction hit even when you not the highest dps in group (highest dps char in group gets faction hit regardless of XP). That way healers cant stay green with Mordana and low level groups can still grind faction together.

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Group faction was in the game live - as long as you contributed and engaged in combat, weather beneficial combat to group members or aggressive combat towards the enemy, you got a faction hit.  I'm not saying make it to where a PW with max supernova can set at a nav of chavez and mow them down for faction  I'm saying make it to where people that contribute to the kill get something. 

 

If you remember it being "the biggest guns gets the faction" you're wrong.  I used to take people in my guild out to grind faction and as long as they shield recharged me, attempted to debuff the mob, hack, casted a beneficial buff on me, anything they took a faction hit.  

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Oh and the reason you didn't take hits on Mordana raids is because your "group" didn't do the most damage.  The GROUP that did the most damage got the faction hit.

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Yes I do remember having to have to make or do some damage to an NPC to get faction credit.

As a low level Character getting 1 or 2 shots off just to get the Faction point and doing nothing else was the one of the thing that were still left for a Lowbie after EA/Westwood made the drastic XP change.

 

Most of you remember getting 14,000-16,000+ XP per KILL before EA changed it.

Now Truthfully I do not know or remember How much of the Faction I/we recieved and I have no way to verify or really care about getting the Faction but.. There was some kind of benefit after the fact.

 

Today:

I have been in a Group with a couple of high level players doing faction grinding, As A JD the one thing I could offer my group was My Energy Leech, when I activated the Leech I receive Aggro, after that Time I should also receive Positive or Negative faction for my action(s) after the demise of the NPC.

 

You get Aggression you get faction.

Edit: If Your in a group and do harm (directly or indirectly) to an NPC and get Aggro you get faction. (Especially with the New Aggro system.) I'm not stating i'm suggesting.

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Will bring it up in the next meeting.

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I too, agree, that there should be faction modification from group actions on mobs.

 

Old Live (tm):

1.Early on, only the kill credited player took a faction modification, PWs would sit in endriago and nova all the centriata/sabine mobs near the  gate or a chavez node, invite others to group for the loot drops to TL. The pickers never took a faction change, but got all other advantages of leveling..sort or PowerTradeLeveling. This was determined by EA to be undesired behaviour, so it changed to....

 

2 .All group got faction hit from the kill while grouped, (this didn't stop the pickers. since the group leader could mark loot free for all)...and in reality, it was giving full faction hit to all, so the total "reward/punishment" of faction wasn't true, if you killed a mob for faction hit of +/- 5, why would 6 people get +/- 5? thats +/- 30. This led to some serious problems, such as people being pushed to red with a faction unknowingly, with no ability to redress it (like PW not bing able to go through gates to tarsis because centriata hated and had a shoot on sight, they couldn't get to tarsis to do missions to correct it), so this led to...

 

3. While grouped, no faction was awarded +/- to members unless they took a aggressive action to mobs, you did not need to gain agro, you just had to do something that put you on agro metrics, like heal someone with agro, debuff mob, shoot mob, leech/sap, grav link, befriend, enrage etc. Sustained over-time buffs did not count, like repulsor/ psi/enviro shield, shield buffs, reactor buffs, turbo buffs etc. etc. All members that had "tapped" a mob to get on agro metric would then share faction evenly divided between that on mobs death.

 

After all the tweeks, #3 seemed to be the best balance and worked quite well, if a player saw the mobs start to be yellow they knew that needed to be more cautious not to tip red. This helped slow PL/TLing and allowed a group to faction together effectively (albiat not as effectively it was for  the PWs  Kill On Sight factioning, he had to slow down a bit  to allow groupies to tap things before zapping them)

 

personally would love the ability to assign faction hits ahead of time, not unlike " kill credit", but since that is a bit exploitable, second best doing it like #3 above would seem to be a good compromise, it was tested for that for 2 yrs. to work good, albeit 10 yrs ago :)

 

So please sign me supporting a "faction/loot right" function or like #3 above.

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Thank you Zackman for looking into this for us!

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I do remember it as everybody who does "damage" gets faction hit... Healers aside...

 

Rather than equally split, I think everybody should get same faction hit & gain... Not splitted, directly like solo kill...

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Should we get a group bonus for faction also? 

 

Started off kidding, but why not?  Maybe the most damage gets regular full faction and other split the binus...  Just thinking out loud.  Not sure what would be best but, some faction sdjustment should be awarded/imposed for being in the group.

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I agree and remember the third way as Mattacre decribed it, origins live. Right now the way it is if you need faction (i.e Red Dragon) and are killing mobs to get such faction, whoever takes the first shot on the mob gets or takes the faction hit. It's not who does the miost damage by the way, the person or group that does the most damage gets the kill award not necessarilly the faction hit or gain. I would like it either split ( i.e say you attack a chavez so you can gain RD faction, the particular chavez gives 6 faction point gain to RD faction and takes 24 from chavez faction. If there are 3 in your group each person would get 2 faction points gained for RD and lose 8 faction points from chavez faction) that is just one example of how it could work, but you as DEV's could decide how you would like it set-up.

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At least at some point in old live, you took a faction hit for healing, if not just for being in group. The post above about the various changes sounds right. I know my TT had mordana faction as low a it would go and I very rarely did any damage at all let alone the most.

As far as what to do in new live, splitting faction between everyone who does something to gain aggro sounds good. Obviously full faction regardless of combat participation is much too exploitable. Full faction for all combat participants seems fair but that could be exploited to some extent too I suppose. Just my humble suggestions (more like agreeing with others humble suggestions lol), I'm sure the devs will strike a balance.

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It will be #3.

 

Not sure if it will be included in todays patch.

 

Compiling atm...and if the final test is going well....we will see  ;)

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It will be #3.

 

Not sure if it will be included in todays patch.

 

Compiling atm...and if the final test is going well....we will see  ;)

 

:w00t:  :thumbsup:

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Cool, good to know.  Matt's #3 does make the most sense IMO.

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While #3 makes sense, it will be weird when all aggro list resetting with a heal...

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Correct....so i might run a parallel list for that.

 

I sent you a PM btw...plz answer  ;)

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Anyone that says the devs dont listen can bite me

Edited by Dakynos

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We do try to incorporate whatever is possible that also would be balanced, fair, and overall a good idea. 

 

I read every single thread posted on this forum, i dont always reply but its pretty much assured every idea ever posted has at least been read by me if not several other team members.

 

Sometimes things are just out of scope or impossible to do.  This idea just makes sense, it always did. 

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Nice idea, thanks for including, but one question - if I understand correctly the faction should be spilt between any in a group taking aggressive action against the mob?  My Progen Sentinel sat in a group hunting Chavez for 3 hours today, firing along with the rest (definitely killing some mobs totally on their own), however her Chavez and RD faction did not move at all.  Meanwhile, the Terran Enforcer went from roughly -2800 to -277 in a matter of 2 hours, getting 5 RD faction for each kill.  Likewise, the Jenquai Trader went from about +200 to +2725, also getting 5 per kill (at least each time I checked).

 

Is this intentional?

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Per their patch notes silvrdark, the group as a whole should have shared in that faction hit. If your PS was being aggressive during the mob killing window your PS should have gained faction (especially if you was killing some on your lonesome)

 

The only other excuse I can see for it not being so is:

Was the TEs shots arrive first, killing it before your shots arrived and did dmg and gave you a agro check, was the JS's beams possibly wacking the mob before your bullets hit to the same effect as the TE? Or were you in group formation...if you weren't in group formation perhaps you weren't in the share faction hit envelope.

 

Don't know if any of those fit your situation, if none were true then I would say something wasn't working as intended for you.

 

They never did go into detail as to HOW the faction was shared in the patch notes, maybe you were a minority share in the split? Without testing it or a statement from powers that be, that might be a possiblity. if it's to be a even split then you should have gotten more.

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To test this, I had my PS kill a number of them on her own without firing a shot.  I was hunting the Chavez for several hours and she gained no faction whatsoever.  My next test will be to have her to all the firing and see if anyone else in the group is credited the faction kill.

 

Update: Tested this again, with only my Sentinel firing at the mobs.  Each time she was the only one firing, no one got any RD faction for the kill.  When others fired, 5 RD faction points were awarded either to my enforcer, or my jenquai trader.  I then tried ungrouping the Sentinel and killing the mobs with her.  While not grouped she was awarded 5 Rd faction for each Chavez kill. Seems to be a possible bug :( 

 

Given that, I'll go check out the bug tracker and see if this has been reported.  Thanks for the info, Matt!

Edited by silvrdark

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