KnitePrince Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 hehe, this isn't a thread for, or against change.. I was more or less wondering how many people (like myself) quickly close a thread as soon as the arguments FOR or AGAINST a proposed change begin?? To be Honest... I really like the way things are going. The Dev's are already planning new things. I could argue that the PW is too strong, has too much hull.. but then, If I thought that.. I should probably play a PW.. I could argue about terran's ability to negotiate, or Jenq's ability to WH, fold space and cloak... but, why? Why not play that class rather than argue about it? thats just my humble opinion. were not PVPing, so if I want to play a weak class, then I just need to ally myself with a strong class.. if i don't like terran's having negotiate and getting more money when they sell, then I need to trade my goods to a Terran and have him sell them for me.... etc etc... I think.. thats what the intentions were originally. To get people together. TBH, my ONLY real issue with EnB.. is vault size. Trying to be a mega builder, storing ores for comps, parts for weapons, Shields, Devices, etc etc... will have a vault filled to the brim in moments. JUST the ores needed to build the different comps will completely fill a vault from top to bottom. IF, mining for a specific ore was easier, this wouldn't bother me as much. As it is, your flying to 9 different systems looking for that specific ore. Oxium for example. A lvl 6 ore. Ive gone through about ten different systems that had lvl six and seven roids trying to get Oxium. It took a lot of time, and I never did get enough. So what it comes down to, is that I am constantly saving any of it I find. Oxium is just an example, but relates to most other ores as well. By the time you have all of these ores stored in your vault. Along with components to build things, even trying to build a few 200% items to keep in stock for sale.. you have three different characters with their vaults filled to the top.. What this means to me, is that I need to create, one, or two accounts.. JUST to hold my supplies. Doable? Certainly. I could even keep components on other characters in the same account, but it means constantly bugging someone to help transfer. It is much easier with another account, and doable, but.. like many other games I have played, the "vault" "Bank" or "storage" area usually doesnt limit you, and you are not forced to make secondary accounts. Of course I can get along without a larger vault, so can you. However, if it is not difficult to increase vault size, that is what "I" would ask for. I really have no desire to see any other major issues changed from how they are. I am not worried about balance, cargo capacity or the ever present DPS arguments. When I see the arguments begin I usually close the thread and browse elsewhere. All in all, I think everything is going great and dream of the day I see the post that says... "NO MORE WIPES!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondct Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 i think the title of this post needs to be slightly adjusted... I got a fortune cookie once which I think sums it up better... it went everyone like progress, nobody likes change... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitePrince Posted January 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 hehe, good point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebirth Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Of all the suggestions out there, this one is the most clear and valid. A bigger vault would rock. /signed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exect Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 I totally agree, bigger vault +1 from me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Or two vaults - one for keepsies and one for general use. I'm terrified of throwing away something I need. As an avid miner I'd like to keep a lot of the 210+ ores AND some of the refines as these are needed for refining chains. Also - the ability to transfer goods to another player remotely - some kind of escrow. Not just to other players but also to your other 4 chars. Great post - heartily agree about the noise demanding improvements for race types. If you want trade skills get a Terran, etc. If you want a warrior dont get a thin hulled miner. But I do think the new classes need a few more hugs and licks of paint to bring them into full play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukeofskye Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Or two vaults - one for keepsies and one for general use. I'm terrified of throwing away something I need. As an avid miner I'd like to keep a lot of the 210+ ores AND some of the refines as these are needed for refining chains. Also - the ability to transfer goods to another player remotely - some kind of escrow. Not just to other players but also to your other 4 chars. Great post - heartily agree about the noise demanding improvements for race types. If you want trade skills get a Terran, etc. If you want a warrior dont get a thin hulled miner. But I do think the new classes need a few more hugs and licks of paint to bring them into full play. while everyone would welcome a bigger vault, it is also one of the harder things to impliment due to hardware limitations, the more vault space you have, the more hardware space you need to store that information. While I don't know how much space enb vaults take up, i doubt its a small amount, especially as more accounts and toons are created, more people return to the game, and so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floss Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 while everyone would welcome a bigger vault, it is also one of the harder things to impliment due to hardware limitations, the more vault space you have, the more hardware space you need to store that information. While I don't know how much space enb vaults take up, i doubt its a small amount, especially as more accounts and toons are created, more people return to the game, and so on. I believe the vault size requests have required modifying the client, which typically means "can't do it." I don't see storage being an issue, storage is essentially free now (picked up a TB for $70 this weekend), granted server drives are more expensive than the retail consumer drives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorik Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 If memory serves,I seem to recall in live an item of some kind that compressed ores for the sole purpose of being able to store more of it in less space. My apologies if I am mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garblesoup Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 If memory serves,I seem to recall in live an item of some kind that compressed ores for the sole purpose of being able to store more of it in less space. My apologies if I am mistaken. Yes, there was an ore compressor - IIRC it was only for Progen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooTall Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Yes, there was an ore compressor - IIRC it was only for Progen? Manes Essence Compressor, maybe? For Projen Sentinels? TooTall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garblesoup Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Manes Essence Compressor, maybe? For Projen Sentinels? TooTall Yeah, that's it. I think it was a nice tradeoff to help them address the combination of the limited space they have to store ores AND the fact they needed to store a bunch of PL ammo since they couldn't make it themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimr0dbbow[IS] Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Shame you coudn't have a guild vault where people who joined the guild sacrificed the bottom row of their Station Vault to gift the guild 1 unit of Guild Vault (accessed through a NPC on certain stations). This would have 2 consequences. Guilds which failed to respect their members may end up loosing valuable guild vault spaces (as members leave, gaining their last row back, and causing 1 unit of guild vault to be lost - if full, so would whatever was stored in the last box. Guilds probably would be more active with their members; more engaged. It woudl be a two way communication. Or to put it another way; loose members at your peril, fail new recruits and suffer; high member guilds get more power from having greater capacity to store; but then they could face ruin from splits in guilds. Politics huh? Unfortunately, with this blue-sky idea I know I'm going to get coders go "no Byakheee we can't do that with the client!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco[IS] Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 "no Byakheee we can't do that with the client!" - Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garblesoup Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Yeah, I'm sure the client won't allow it but I have to say that is one of the more innovative ideas around Guild vaults I've ever heard. It gives the people what they want yet places an onus on the Guilds to keep their membership involved. Very cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raytan Posted January 25, 2010 Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 As I recall the ore compressor only worked on a few different ores, I want to say 6 total but I don't really remember, so while a nice idea it was pretty limited on usefulness. The problem with ore's isn't that we need to store many stack's of the same kind of ore which is where something like a ore compressor would become of value, the problem is the shear amount of different types of ore we need to hang on to, this is where a larger vault or an "ore only" vault would come in handy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistergreen Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 hehe, this isn't a thread for, or against change.. I was more or less wondering how many people (like myself) quickly close a thread as soon as the arguments FOR or AGAINST a proposed change begin?? To be Honest... I really like the way things are going. The Dev's are already planning new things. I could argue that the PW is too strong, has too much hull.. but then, If I thought that.. I should probably play a PW.. I could argue about terran's ability to negotiate, or Jenq's ability to WH, fold space and cloak... but, why? Why not play that class rather than argue about it? thats just my humble opinion. were not PVPing, so if I want to play a weak class, then I just need to ally myself with a strong class.. if i don't like terran's having negotiate and getting more money when they sell, then I need to trade my goods to a Terran and have him sell them for me.... etc etc... I think.. thats what the intentions were originally. To get people together. TBH, my ONLY real issue with EnB.. is vault size. Trying to be a mega builder, storing ores for comps, parts for weapons, Shields, Devices, etc etc... will have a vault filled to the brim in moments. JUST the ores needed to build the different comps will completely fill a vault from top to bottom. IF, mining for a specific ore was easier, this wouldn't bother me as much. As it is, your flying to 9 different systems looking for that specific ore. Oxium for example. A lvl 6 ore. Ive gone through about ten different systems that had lvl six and seven roids trying to get Oxium. It took a lot of time, and I never did get enough. So what it comes down to, is that I am constantly saving any of it I find. Oxium is just an example, but relates to most other ores as well. By the time you have all of these ores stored in your vault. Along with components to build things, even trying to build a few 200% items to keep in stock for sale.. you have three different characters with their vaults filled to the top.. What this means to me, is that I need to create, one, or two accounts.. JUST to hold my supplies. Doable? Certainly. I could even keep components on other characters in the same account, but it means constantly bugging someone to help transfer. It is much easier with another account, and doable, but.. like many other games I have played, the "vault" "Bank" or "storage" area usually doesnt limit you, and you are not forced to make secondary accounts. Of course I can get along without a larger vault, so can you. However, if it is not difficult to increase vault size, that is what "I" would ask for. I really have no desire to see any other major issues changed from how they are. I am not worried about balance, cargo capacity or the ever present DPS arguments. When I see the arguments begin I usually close the thread and browse elsewhere. All in all, I think everything is going great and dream of the day I see the post that says... "NO MORE WIPES!" PSSSSSSSSSSSTTT.... you want Oxium, go to Pluto & Charon. But you didn't hear it from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daywolf Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 I believe the vault size requests have required modifying the client, which typically means "can't do it." I don't see storage being an issue, storage is essentially free now (picked up a TB for $70 this weekend), granted server drives are more expensive than the retail consumer drives. Yeah that's right, it would need client modification at least as far as creating new tabs or extending the existing window. The only option I can think up is using storage bags that use loot windows. Just a wild thought though... then limiting how many per character and not allowing bags within bags. As for the HD, on the old server that blew up, it was a consumer HD. Chances are they are still using SATA drives which are not server rated. Server ratings are for drives that operate under heavy loads 24/7 which are usually SCSI drives. Someone will always try to argue the point with me, so here is an accurate link link So to make a long conclusion short, I'd never build an mmog server with anything but a SCSI array. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garblesoup Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Yeah that's right, it would need client modification at least as far as creating new tabs or extending the existing window. The only option I can think up is using storage bags that use loot windows. Just a wild thought though... then limiting how many per character and not allowing bags within bags. As for the HD, on the old server that blew up, it was a consumer HD. Chances are they are still using SATA drives which are not server rated. Server ratings are for drives that operate under heavy loads 24/7 which are usually SCSI drives. Someone will always try to argue the point with me, so here is an accurate link link So to make a long conclusion short, I'd never build an mmog server with anything but a SCSI array. Well I don't know about your enterprise but at mine all the serious Lvl 1 and Lvl 2 data is on FC drives. I don't know of *any* enterprise data centers that use SCSI drives (or that have for years). We use large arrays of FC as first and 2nd lvl, then SAS and finally SATA for archive (and I've always insisted the SATA be in Raid 6 for dual parity due to the long rebuild times). Up until last year I was the storage mgr and at that time our farm was about a PB of DASD and it has a ~30-40% CAGR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daywolf Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Depends on the FC and it's rating. I mean providing you can find the hardware to hook it up to, it's not so much about the connection but the quality put into the design and manufacturing. Most drives on the market are bargain drives shipped in by the container from China. But SCSI for years have carried an official heavy load rating. Lots of hardware still being made for SCSI connects, well in use, with availability to most architectures. Of course the best solution is to make a RAM drive provided you have a solid UPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tienbau Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 WRT to the ideas about vault size and item compression: the vault size is locked in the client AFAIK, however the item 'compressor' would be feasible. Guild vaults are doable but the access method would be slightly fiddly. One method that springs to mind immediately is to have guild vault 'banks'. So you could swap in and out a set of vault banks, like you would those removable hard drives. Here's how it _could_ work, but again I'm not saying we'd do this but it could be done like this: Brains, the leader of the 'Pugwashers' creates the shared guild vault on Jove's Fury. Joe90 of the 'Pugwashers' arrives at Jove's Fury and swaps the guild's shared vault into his vault using '/guildvault'. His vault view is now the guild's first vault area. He deposits his prized collection of manticore nettles into the shared vault. He then swaps back to his private vault either by leaving the station or using '/guildvault' again. BarleyMcGrew also in the 'Pugwashers' comes along to Jove's Fury and can access the manticore nettles by swapping the guild vault into his. Only one person can access the guild vault at a time. If you try to access the vault while someone else is using it, you will get a message that it's in use, and the person who's using it. Your vault usage will time out after 5 minutes of non-usage, and your vault would change back to your private vault. You would only be able to use the common vault on the station it was first created, creating a kind of 'home' station for that guild. Thoughts? Of course, we'd need several anti-abuse checks (more attentive readers will spot an item duping opportunity in the above system - I'd be writing code to prevent that ). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrell [BT] Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 I like that idea Tienbau. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garblesoup Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 Depends on the FC and it's rating. I mean providing you can find the hardware to hook it up to, it's not so much about the connection but the quality put into the design and manufacturing. Most drives on the market are bargain drives shipped in by the container from China. But SCSI for years have carried an official heavy load rating. Lots of hardware still being made for SCSI connects, well in use, with availability to most architectures. Of course the best solution is to make a RAM drive provided you have a solid UPS. /offtopic I say this as someone that, until quite recently, managed a multi-PB datacenter. I don't know of a single enterprise data center that uses SCSI as an enterprise data solution. I also don't know what you mean by "if you can find the hardware to hook it up to" - it's called an HBA and it's typically part of the spec of your server buildout. Between large Unix servers (e.g. Sun M9000's), Blade server farms, mainframes and midranges they all interconnect into a SAN (typicaly multiple SAN's) using FC Directors. It's pretty much as standard an interconnect in a datacenter as is ethernet cabling, though it may eventually be displaced by converged FCOE solutions. Sticking a SCSI drive in a server is not enterprise, it's what we call remote/small office. /back on topic I like Tienbau's ideas . . . but then I usually do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistergreen Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 WRT to the ideas about vault size and item compression: the vault size is locked in the client AFAIK, however the item 'compressor' would be feasible. Guild vaults are doable but the access method would be slightly fiddly. One method that springs to mind immediately is to have guild vault 'banks'. So you could swap in and out a set of vault banks, like you would those removable hard drives. Here's how it _could_ work, but again I'm not saying we'd do this but it could be done like this: Brains, the leader of the 'Pugwashers' creates the shared guild vault on Jove's Fury. Joe90 of the 'Pugwashers' arrives at Jove's Fury and swaps the guild's shared vault into his vault using '/guildvault'. His vault view is now the guild's first vault area. He deposits his prized collection of manticore nettles into the shared vault. He then swaps back to his private vault either by leaving the station or using '/guildvault' again. BarleyMcGrew also in the 'Pugwashers' comes along to Jove's Fury and can access the manticore nettles by swapping the guild vault into his. Only one person can access the guild vault at a time. If you try to access the vault while someone else is using it, you will get a message that it's in use, and the person who's using it. Your vault usage will time out after 5 minutes of non-usage, and your vault would change back to your private vault. You would only be able to use the common vault on the station it was first created, creating a kind of 'home' station for that guild. Thoughts? Of course, we'd need several anti-abuse checks (more attentive readers will spot an item duping opportunity in the above system - I'd be writing code to prevent that ). I'm going to be the collective voice of everyone and say. "Make it so!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tienbau Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 yeah I don't think it would change game balance at all, since you can only access the shared vault on one station - you can't use the shared vault in a sort of teleporter trade XP heist. It just makes playing a little more convenient - it will help out the people who don't want to (or can't for whatever reason) dual box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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