Cosmo3 Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 [quote name='Zackman' timestamp='1354822179' post='68194'] This thread has nothing to do with mob linkage (like said, code has not changed) but with [b]mob scan.[/b] We are all not used anymore to have high sigs again because we all had our sig reducers from our uber gear before live (my PW was 1.2K, now i am 3.6K) - plus before live we didnt care since we simply killed all and everything bothering us. We check mob scan ranges soon™. [/quote] Very sad when the Devs are completely out of touch with whats going on in the game. This was also an issue discussed before this so called live we are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zackman [LDEV] Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 All you get from this kind of postings directed to the ones making this game happening for you is alienating them from the forums - and you guys complaining about staff not very talktive anymore? From now on i wont post here anymore - since i can live with it (can you?). Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo3 Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 [quote name='Zackman' timestamp='1354834111' post='68203'] All you get from this kind of postings directed to the ones making this game happening for you is alienating them from the forums - and you guys complaining about staff not very talktive anymore? From now on i wont post here anymore - since i can live with it (can you?). Have a nice day. [/quote] I was waiting on this, there are many posts saying the same things and giving ideas and some that thank the Devs for the hard work. One of those by myself, but when you disagree you get an attitude and a threat. Yes, you guys work hard as all of us has acknowledged many, many times. Just because some here disagree with the direction the game is going doesn't mean you are being personally attacked. WE, have asked in this thread for some of this to be looked at in a nice way. The response we get is, no response, nothing has changed. I spend many hours on this game, and yes some of the mobs have changed. You have a nice day also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezwalker Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 When the hell did this project turn to us against the DEVs, I thought we where all here to reincarnate our beloved game, all we are trying to tell you guys is that its not working right, its not fun, its not anywhere near live but its ok, we don't want it to be an exact copy, just playable and enjoyable by the masses, and its NOT! How about you all time out from coding and bug fixes and come join us, get a hands on feel for the game and then we can talk.........nobody is in a rush here, we been at it for what, 5 years now? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totteswede Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 [quote name='Zackman' timestamp='1354822179' post='68194'] This thread has nothing to do with mob linkage (like said, code has not changed) but with [b]mob scan.[/b] We are all not used anymore to have high sigs again because we all had our sig reducers from our uber gear before live (my PW was 1.2K, now i am 3.6K) - plus before live we didnt care since we simply killed all and everything bothering us. We check mob scan ranges soon™. [/quote] I am glad you are looking into mob scan values, as they seem to be completely different to what they used to be when I last played (about a year ago). I currently run lower sig (2.5k) on my PP than what I used to back then, but it's a worlds difference in how the mobs act. Mob scan usually was around 2.5k (regular, lower level mobs), meaning they aggroed from 5-5.5k for me, but now they come running from 8-9k away, sometimes more. Although "auto-pulls" are nice if you can handle them, they also mean that in general you have to fight almost trivial content (read much lower CLs) which dampens the fun factor for sure. I understand that to some players it's a "new game" starting over from scratch, but I'm also pretty sure many of the other people posting here have been around for some time and know the ins and outs of sig, scan and mob aggro. Saying that "we are not used to having high sigs" is overlooking the actual facts some people are bringing to the table, even if it's true to some extent. We can't argue with you wether the code has been changed or not, all we can do is report what we are experiencing in the game and hope for you Devs to add the numbers up Keep up the good work ! /Totte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanig[IS] Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 This project is not "us vs them" The vast majority of these fix threads are made by the same small sampling of people that complain all the time. Some are constructive, some are just: "whaahh i want it easy mode my way and i blame the devs being evil satan worshippers, maybe i should be a dev and show em how its done but i have no worthy skills or time to invest into actually doing work so ill just piss moan complain" Most of the time when someone says that stupid phrase "it wasnt like that in live" they have NO PROOF. Sorry, cant go by your memories from 10 years ago, we dont even go by mine. I need screens, vids, documentation, something past "i just remember." Now, that being said, cause frankly Zack has done a thousand times more for this project than any of you have, I want to see some evidence of this behavior and proof of why it is actually an issue. The vast majority of the rest of the playerbase has not been complaining, even when I go in and ask directly "can we go out and you can show me this". No one will show me. Sorry but I dont care who you are, you will not blast Zackman, ever. Not after the 400+ hours he has put into this game, for free, just since live launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanig[IS] Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Also id like to bring your attention to this poll of the wider playerbase (sample of 61) [url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/7879-mob-group-dynamic-poll/"]https://forum.enb-emu...p-dynamic-poll/[/url] Reading that poll I can come to a few conclusions. There are a few spawns that need adjusted. There are players having trouble with some things, but the outcry to nerf everything is going too far. Some people say it is too hard, but that is a vast minority to those that ask for a few being adjusted down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnsilver2 Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 [quote name='Stanig' timestamp='1354864375' post='68250'] Also id like to bring your attention to this poll of the wider playerbase (sample of 61) [url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/7879-mob-group-dynamic-poll/"]https://forum.enb-emu...p-dynamic-poll/[/url] Reading that poll I can come to a few conclusions. There are a few spawns that need adjusted. There are players having trouble with some things, but the outcry to nerf everything is going too far. Some people say it is too hard, but that is a vast minority to those that ask for a few being adjusted down. [/quote] Ok so all of us have to simply adjust because in your opinion the game was to easy in Live. Linked agro is best.. no one outta be able to solo voltois i belive you posted.. Well guess what, I played it from Early Beta to sunset. People soloed mobs all the time. This dident get them superior advantage couse no one could solo raids. A voltoi with JD could look like this.. agro, hit him with coma, Kite away.. and tbh it was the only way in hell a jenquai could kill em. (lvl 8 shield). Having a 0.0 sig dident mean no mobs agroed, it was a combo of there scan and your sig. It was obvíosly better to have a low sig. JD's could plock em out with summon, all terrans with missiles. And this is the way it was.. Im sorry to hear you dislike the original EnB so much couse i kinda loved it. Now i heard so many times how you wanted to bring EnB back.. but what you seem to aim for here is to bring your personal take on EnB back. Linked agro, new build systems. So if we dont like all the changes that we DIDEN'T as for.. we outta shut up about it and keep dying from 6+ mobs we agro every time we fire at 1.. I talked to the players out there all the time. and it seems to me the once that dont complain (whine im sure you call it) are the people who doesent know how things where back in Live. Thoes of us that do will not sit quiet and watsh as the game turns for the worse. Even Holmes henchmen started group agro on me and they have been the choice of cl levling for many people because they don't group agro. you are effectivly ruining the game balance with your personal ideas because we cant all handle 6+ mobs and an mmo outta be about personal playstyle, not forced by the devs as they tweak it to there will. I have been here from start and even tho i sound like an unhappy camper i do really not mean disrespect. I just think respect should go both ways. We wouldent have a game with no devs, and they have nothing to develope without us the Beta testers. so thats 5 years of invested time for me. Lets have respect both ways. Ask the community with polls or whatever. But please stop making changes based on personal opinions about how it should be. many of us can remeber and we can all share input. Johnsilver (Andromeda) 4 x 150 toons and 2x 100. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efialtis Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I think we have to find middle ground here. We don't need, nor should allow, players insulting devs and vice versa. Yes frowning upon a devs best effort because its not aligned with your way of thinking is an insult, especially when what is offered to you is given away for free. I'll explain why Several people in this thread specifically said that they want the game like it was in live. Thats downright unfair for the devs and not possible. If you wanted the game like it was you should have made a better effort for it to stay afloat in the first place. Like Stanig said memory is a tricky thing and you can find examples everywhere you look. You can't recreate something from memory and expect it to be exactly the same. You can reach a very good approximation and thats about it. Even conceptual design documents can differ from what was actually built into the game, you just have no way of knowing. Most importantly, mob AI can never be the same as you can remember it. I say you can remember it because the same behavior can be interpreted differently by different people, personal view is always a factor. Only the person/team originally tasked with developing the AI [b]maybe[/b] could recreate it. Moreover, a lot surely must have happened in 10 years in the field of AI development, what was common practice back then is probably outdated and replaced by another model by now. Even limitations that were addressed by a very specific way/trick the developer could have used contribute, there is just no possible way for the AI to be the same. Now i will address another thing i think calls foul on the player base. Back in 2002 lower level mobs could swarm and kill you if you were not careful. in 2012 the exact same can happen but maybe the way is different. Adapt cause thats what driving the human race forward, we adapt our surroundings or ourselves. Back in 2002 this was not a solo game and at 2012 still isn't. You just cant advance the same, explore and enjoy all the available content, get all the desired items and you shouldn't. Limitations come from solo play. Deal with it because its your choice. Back in 2002 mobs and their skills could interrupt your skills,warp etc in a big way. In 2012 this isn't possible (for now) but i don't see anyone complaining about it. Maybe because it benefits the player? Several new items and mobs have been implemented that they were not part of the original game, i don't see any1 complaining about it. Don't you want the same game as in 2002? I personally would love to see the NOS removed from game because it destroys game balance and mechanics once you can get your hands on it. Being able to thrust at 1000, swoop in to kill the mob or mine that asteroid and retreat before the bad guys can reach you. It completely levels the speed and tactics difference that should exist between speedy terrans and the rest. Yes terran speed advantage wasn't translated only to warp speed advantage back in 2002. I don't see anyone complaining about it. Maybe because it benefits the player? I could go on but i believe you get the point by now. Polls are created in order to collect feedback. Stanig is right. Bother to participate. That thread has been going for a while and in that time many posts were made concerning the subject but few actually voted. Why? I'm not gonna say that all is perfect in the game. There are things that need rebalancing, fine tuning, debugging etc Make a ticket when you find a bug or a variance in the formula that shouldn't be there, thats what the tracking system is for. Give all the facts for it to be reproduced and the devs will take care of it in time. Coming on the forums just raging about it achieves nothing. Please keep in mind that this is an ongoing project and the devs have repeatedly given us reason to trust them by listening to our constructive criticism. I apologize for the long post and any hurt feelings i might have incurred. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnsilver2 Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I just wanna point out a thing non has touched yet.. The lets make the game harder with linking mobs is completely gonna backfire. The hard way to play EnB has always been go out there and kill mobs.. earn 1 cl at the time, make trade from selling loot, and explore the galaxy + a few jobs at the end couse there isent enuff navs to max it. The easy way has always been join tours.. get the first easy trade and combat lvls. Ding OL 35 park you butt in a job terminal. Job job job .... every bar goes fast and easy. No challange dumping trash or deploying satelites. no agro from onorom, and the combat mobs sure aint gonna group call for help. What does this mean for the game?.. well it means that i will not be able to play it my way.. the hard way. I just dont feel like dying evey other minute because the original game design has cast aside. And where do the hard gamers like me end up then?? ahhh the job terminals. fast and easy xp all the way. Effectivly you acomplished 2 things.. You drive people away from the outer space hunting areas and into the terminals, and thos making the hole game experience feel tidious and boring. ( not for all, but for the group that likes to kill things for levels) . You would understand this if you had a broader gaming mind. Its not just about balance and how far mobs can see.. its a lot about personal playstyle. I use to be out for hours on end just killing and looting to get that good feel of returning with 20 stacks of loot and see my trade bar actually moving. And as for Stanigs post.. Quote .. "whaahh i want it easy mode my way and i blame the devs being evil satan worshippers, maybe i should be a dev and show em how its done but i have no worthy skills or time to invest into actually doing work so ill just piss moan complain" I'll let it speak for iteself actually. But to round it up.. you have givien everyone an easy mode already by moving them from the battle field and into stations. So i guess ill cya all passing from sommer to vt on 1 job or another. hopefully we can hook up and raid at some point when we all got thos hard to get xp bars from trash dumping. Johnsilver .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanig[IS] Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Provide screenshot and tone down your voice. Edit: Oh umad. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadinax2 Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Zackman took me to a nav, I showed him how I fought away from the nav an got the mobs to link, he then showed me how to it without linking, I will provide a video later when I have some uninterupted time to do so. The mob linking has a couple key factors: Range you initiate aggro at, refreshing that aggro (continueing to attack, etc), and your ship's signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Slayerman Posted December 7, 2012 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 DISCLAIMER: I'm just a web dev, not a server dev so my opinion is my own and not one the Dev team or Net-7 entertainment. I played earth and beyond live 1st time and since ST3 this time... In original EnB you COULD go and solo play, in LIve Emu, still can, and have been doing so far to OL50, yeah, im a PW and have managed, needed help on a couple fighting about my weight, but still managed to get to where i am with little play time, and i have enjoyed it, the changes made have not made it impossible to play in the slightest. Have the devs done things i disagree with? probably, but i loved EnB so much i aint going to let it stop me.... im gonna adapt and carry on... What if i didnt like it? well, i'd just stop playing if it got to that stage. Remember, everyone has a different idea of fun.... mine is spending hours upon hours coding website databases (yes i did www.enbdatabase.com from ST3) which is what got me on that team and working on the portal. We, the N7 team, have never said we are creating a copy of EA's Live, as you all know it was very flawed. The content most of you are already playing would not exists if we were recreating live. New character types, new mobs, new items, new missions, new sectors would all be gone, and there would be some very messy bugs. Are things perfect now? Hell no, Are they better than EA live? some yes, some no, Will any of this stop ME playing? Lost the game once, not gonna loose it again! We have 400-500 people on the server at any one time, surley this means the game is playable in various styles? If you have issues with the way things are going, and you think that the majority of the community agree, then get them on this post... If they dont post, its obviously not a big enough issue for them to worry about. If the things you dont like, dont get changed, you have 2 options... adapt or leave, and those ARE choices, no one is forcing you to play or not play.... After all, its only a game Fire extinguisher at the ready.... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyp [LDEV] Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 I promised folks I would come in and talk soon. I will be discussing things with the dev team, but I've just finished reading through this topic and I see far too much hostility both from you guys and from the team. With that in mind, I am closing the thread. Look for me sometime saturday night and/or Sunday as I intend to do some discussions with the players who are in. We'll be seeing just how many people want to say its all broken then. I am more than willing to listen, just don't expect that every idea will be implemented. Players in general (not you guys in particular) have a habit of wanting what is best/easiest/most profitable for them, and rightly so as it is the desire of a player to want to be the best. As developers we have to look at the possible ramifications of the changes we make: How it affects the game economy, how it affects the speed of leveling, how it affects combat, how it affects exploration, items, well you get the idea. The big picture is important too. If we fix what the few cry out for on the forums we could very well break it for other people who [u]like[/u] said challenge. Like I said, after I get home, look for me in game, after I get all the server maintenance done I will be in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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