LordJackal Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 I do not post much nor do I say alot in game... I find that it keeps me out of trouble because I do not sugar coat things when I say/do them...Some people admire that about me, most people do not. either way it really does not matter to me.. I am who I am So here I am doing some explore jobs on my JE this morning and I noticed SkunkythePP was talking about a situation at home that I could relate too.. with this... reading his description of the situation was very humorous to me because I had dealt with almost exactly the same thing just a little over a year ago... So I decided to tell him in good humor what I did to solve my situation.. anyway I guess there was a point when I typed the word "shit" (describing my situation not attacking someone or calling them a name) in my conversation and was immediately publicly scolded for it... Well boys and girls that didnt set to well with me... hence this wonderful waste of my time and yours post... and now that I am throughly annoyed with this incident here we go... Now let me point out a few important facts... I have personally witnessed far worse language and sexual innuendo from members of this community a multitude of occasions with no repremand of any sort...? Also and I could be wrong and confusing this with another game i have played recently but I could have swore a npc on a mission i have done said the word bastard or something to that effect...? and lets not forget that the minimum age requirment for this game according to the pregame launch agreement is 13 years old...??? Now I dont know where you are from or how you raise your kids and it's none of my business.. However having kids of my own and dealing with the things kids do at 13... I can tell you that the word "shit" is the least of our/my worries.. most 13 year old children of today's society have been subjected to far worse than the word "shit"... even worse things than I at 13 and I was a hell raising heathen... So if it's the "people of all ages" that your protecting you have certainly missed your mark.. Anyway let me stop wasting even more of my time and most importantly your time and let me conclude this post... I am not asking for change... I am not asking for an apology.. I am not asking for anything other than some common sense when enforcing such a rule... I wasnt calling someone a piece of shit.. I merely used the word in context of a sentence describing a situation.. Should I be publicly flogged and then rudely told to "DEAL WITH IT"... I dont think so... I have done nothing to deserve that... I am a reasonable man and if you have used some common sense to enforce your rules then you can kindly send me a private message respectfully explaining your request.. Respectfully written errors and all... LJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryle [N7R] Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Yeah gods honestly I am getting really tired of the GM tells telling me to take it out of new players channel or market when its like, DUDE SERIOUSLY NO ONE ELSE IS TALKING, GET OFF MY NUTS. For whatever reason this community is irritatingly pedantic and wants feel smug and bossy all the time. Anyone whos chat with me in game knows I like to joke, make people laugh, and have a good time. But I am one of the first people to answer someones questions or drop everything to help. And youve got the gall to reprimand me for doing nothing more than talking? As if it matters if the text is red or blue or green, we all see it. The chat power tripping and policing for stuff that makes no difference needs to stop. I see (and have been reprimanded for) people talking in "the wrong channel" all the time, invoking the wrath of ONE certain GM every time who apparently has to make his presence known constantly about it, but then an hour later see some long winded talk about what we had for dinner in the same channel go unchecked for hours on end. Especially when its like 4am and theres two people on having a babble while grinding jobs, use your fricken judgement, there aint nothing being sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetorius [GM] Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 was not logged to see what chat log messages were live, that said, i firmly beleive, all language in chat that is not within reasonable language for young people, belongs on a private channel. 2nd i also feel if any enb team member were to issue a warning to any ingame player it should be a private PM. also before live enb team might want to try a chat filter to allow those that forget themselves occasionally a safety net. Lets keep enb family, free, fun and a great place to spend a few hours with a great community, Have a great earth and beyond experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossdie [BT] Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 One thing I would like taken out of teh game is, when on new players chat, I do not like seeing the computer telling me it's new players chat. I do not remember this from live and it's actually quite annoying. I can see it telling it to you once but not everytime you say something in the chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordJackal Posted August 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 So do you think the word "Shit" is inappropriate for "young people" ie 13 year olds and above? And if you need screens of the conversation I have them Praetorious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyde Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Not to derail but, NP chat has always, from launch had the message in green text. There are many other channels for general bs. And no, I am not one of the chat lurkers waiting to pounce. People are people and will make mistakes, lets not chastise them unless they really deserve it, and there are sometimes folks that deserve it big-time. One of the things that makes this game great is the community, lets keep it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetorius [GM] Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 i have read the logs, 1.a private pm would have been best and a private response to the gm in return. 2. no player may at anytime be abusive to any member of the earth and beyond team, especially in open chat, read the eula u agreed to evaluate your actions, if u do not agree with our stated rules and regulations, it is your right to find another game that will allow total freedom of language used, this emulator requires we all be responsible for our actions and words we use while guests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryle [N7R] Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Just curious on one point here. Who made these rules? Last I checked this was a community effort between testers, donators, and developers. Lately its started to feel like a company takeover dictating to those that have held it up over the years. When did we get input when these rules were put into play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordJackal Posted August 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 So your not going to answer the question... Thats fine... 1. Nothing should have been said period.. I was not being malicious towards anyone least of all a member of the e&b team member so a private pm wasnt needed on either part. 2. Your refusal to acknowledge the root of the issue (what caused all this in the first place) and your tunnel vision (EULA) blinds you to the big picture.. I DIDNT DO ANYTHING WRONG!!!!!!!! and was Publicy scolded for it... Come on guys.. I said Shit? Really? Thats insane... 13 years old kids know and say the word Shit all the time... Whats wrong with you people!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryle [N7R] Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 I want to point out that attacking probably isnt going to get anything accomplished, but the idea of a chat filter seems to be the way to go. The vast majority of us are adults in our 20s, 30s, 40s, and even 50s. Words are words, but honestly I know my kids hang out when I play, as do those of others, they dont need this. That goes for the sexual innuendos too. How often do you see me say in game "what am i reading?" thats usually why, I guess a passive aggressive way of saying wow thats over the line there. I just think its a little ridiculous to have this much of an outcry/issue of a single word, when there had been some particularly raunchy discussions in NP and Market chat in the past that no one jumped on, and that it seems like most chat reprimanding is limited to a certain former advocate that likes to jump on random convos and tell them to go to another channel when no ones said a word except those having the convo, for an hour or more. Theres an enforcement/judgement disparity here, inconsistent and frankly going after the wrong people a lot. Thats my last word on it, since I am sure Ive inflamed the situation more than I should of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyp [LDEV] Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 I wrote them originally, see the code of conduct linked at the top of every forum, and no, you didn't get input on them. They were put in place to both control our team (who also didn't get any input on them) as well as to put in place player guidelines. It was done by the board. Although, the occasional curse word along those lines isn't exactly what I had in mind, it is the letter of the law that GMs must enforce. That said, it IS a company and has been for a while although it is non-profit and accepts donations to run. Hopefully its not taken the wrong way, but the rules are put in place for the protection of people who don't wish to experience that. You're welcome to show me the logs/screens you have and I will compare them against the master record the server creates which contains every last line of text typed into the chat system, including your private messages. If they are correct and it was harmless, our apologies however, the GM is just doing their job which is to uphold all the requirements in that CoC document for players. You must keep in mind that although it started as a community project, and we do appreciate the fact that you help to test things, it is not a democracy. I challenge you to find me a project of this size that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordJackal Posted August 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 Well Ill be damned, Someone gets it... Finally... Kyp thank you And your absolutely correct and I understand completely why this particular rule is in place.. However in this instance the e&b staff member has to be able to use some common sense to determine if this person (ME) is being mean or hateful or simply useing such word in an attempt to desribe a situation.. Now if I was in the chat channels cursing up one side down the other saying every dirty word in the book Ya something would need to be done.. All I am asking for is intelligence(Common Sense) when applying the rules.. Dont be a robot.. Be realistic with said rules gentleman... And apply them to EVERYONE!! Ryle made a good point about some of the raunchy discussions we see in game.. Nothing is ever said about those and they go on for hours... You cant pick and choose who the rules apply to.. They have to apply to everyone equally.. Thanks Kyp for your imput and please know nothing I have said in this post was directed towards you personally.. I address enb staff as a whole.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellHasArrived Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 [quote name='Klyde' timestamp='1344043335' post='61371'] Not to derail but, NP chat has always, from launch had the message in green text. There are many other channels for general bs. And no, I am not one of the chat lurkers waiting to pounce. People are people and will make mistakes, lets not chastise them unless they really deserve it, and there are sometimes folks that deserve it big-time. One of the things that makes this game great is the community, lets keep it that way. [/quote] Lurker! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reon Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 [quote name='Ryle' timestamp='1344047543' post='61376'] I want to point out that attacking probably isnt going to get anything accomplished, but the idea of a chat filter seems to be the way to go. The vast majority of us are adults in our 20s, 30s, 40s, and even 50s. Words are words, but honestly I know my kids hang out when I play, as do those of others, they dont need this. That goes for the sexual innuendos too. How often do you see me say in game "what am i reading?" thats usually why, I guess a passive aggressive way of saying wow thats over the line there. I just think its a little ridiculous to have this much of an outcry/issue of a single word, when there had been some particularly raunchy discussions in NP and Market chat in the past that no one jumped on, and that it seems like most chat reprimanding is limited to a certain former advocate that likes to jump on random convos and tell them to go to another channel when no ones said a word except those having the convo, for an hour or more. Theres an enforcement/judgement disparity here, inconsistent and frankly going after the wrong people a lot. Thats my last word on it, since I am sure Ive inflamed the situation more than I should of. [/quote] I have been guilty of a "what am I reading" at least once from you...I have tried to reel myself in a little bit lately, like several I have assumed that the playerbase of a 10 year old game is probably at least in their 20s by now, but I am sure some peoples kids are playing these days. Since there is no filter, I don't cuss in channels, but there has been more than one occasion where some one crosses the line and I have not reeled the chat back in. Don't forget, loudmouths like me that talk way to much and enjoy making people laugh inadvertently cross the line when we see others going even further past said line and using foul language while doing it. NOTE: as far as channel misuse goes...it seems to happen often, and I have been one of the past offenders. I have not been reprimanded about it, but I prolly should have. I know each channel has its uses, and I am sure in live that it will be much different, but right now, there are sometimes as few as 40 people on late night...so its almost expected someone to continue a conversation in NP or Market when the channel has not had one word said in it for 2 hours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muhir Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 I can tell you this, as a very long time member of this game, test, project whatever you want to call it. When you accidentally via a /mt or something similar and drop a bad word, it is genuinely treated as a mistake and over looked. If you are intentionally using a word in open chat, then you are subject to a verbal reprimand. Case in point, in being coy the other day I said something with "sh!t" in it. While the community overlooked it, a certain staff, who shall remain nameless, sent me a private /t about it and rather directly said that it was inappropriate. While we bantered it about privately for a few minutes, the reality is that he was correct and I was wrong in using the language and masking it as unobviously as i did. I was frustrated and wanted to share my frustration and clearly used a well place "!" not to hide very well the word that I wanted to use. Which is clearly now and has been against the code of conduct from the beginning. Moral to this story, just because you don't see someone getting lambasted in public by staff, beta, gm, or otherwise, does not mean that they are not told to stop doing whatever it is they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reon Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 ^ yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montecarlo Posted August 4, 2012 Report Share Posted August 4, 2012 [quote name='LordJackal' timestamp='1344042655' post='61370'] So do you think the word "Shit" is inappropriate for "young people" ie 13 year olds and above? And if you need screens of the conversation I have them Praetorious... [/quote] When i was 13 ( in the late 60's ) we used that word and a bunch of other words even around our parents. Let me suggest this! Make a channel for us older folks that may use this word or others. Like you have to be 21 to use this channel and if someone in their says anything about saying such words then they are on or in the wrong channel. I have even seen the word shit in private channel's and that person get jumped on about it. Just a idea. And LordJackal that FB the other night rocked man ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstar [MOD] Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 Just a few comments to add: First, we [i]do [/i]have different channels for different reasons, and using a channel for the wrong reason can (and should) be enforced. I've often seen NP filled with misc chat while some actual question rushes by. I've also wondered about market activity that gets overlooked or missed because of conversations unrelated to market activity. Second, I suspect the reason person x 'gets away' with something and person y does not is the fact that we do not have 24/7 GM or Dev coverage. There will be times where players will be unsupervised, and nobody will step in to stop a raunchy conversation or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basileus Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Personally, I feel that the whole idea of "protecting" children from words like 'shit' is hillarious and the ultimate parental fail, but still, if that is the rule, I'll do my best to follow it. A much bigger problem, however, and probably what made the OP post here in the first place, is that so many in game think that they somehow have the right to police this and verbaly attack someone who breaks a rule. I have seen this happen many times online and too often it has been nothing short of harassment, applauded by others in the chat [b]with GM's clearly present[/b] (allthough not actively taking part). I have never seen a GM step in and say "Stop it, this is harassment!". And all those who think its an outrage to say 'shit' but ok to bully someone... Please, dont talk of "keeping children safe", then one you are harassming might be a little kid. Edited August 5, 2012 by Basileus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacklung[IS] Posted August 5, 2012 Report Share Posted August 5, 2012 in this case it wasnt so much the word but the response to being asked to watch ones language. i have seen both private and public messages that transpired that evening and have concluded that once the word language was put in chat it became a personel game for Lordjackal to buck the system and not listen to a member of staff. Locking topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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