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A Feature/mechanic "why It's Like That" Sticky Thread


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I propose a "Why it's like that" thread for existing features, to be managed by and have posting restricted to a forum admin, player advocate, or other designee.

The purpose is to create a set of reference posts for the features so that the suggestions made in this forum can be as well-informed as possible. Each post in the sticky would have an explanation for a single feature or mechanic - what it's supposed to do, how it currently operates, what other mechanics depend on it, etc. The list of features can be derived from the suggestions here at first and the design docs / knowledge of things in game later.

The reason for this is that amid the back and forthing about the merits of a suggestion, there's a lot of information being brought up as to why the suggestion will/won't work or what impact it would have. This information would be great to have before the suggestion is made as the suggester could then take it into consideration before posting.

I think this would lead to better suggestions overall, not to mention cutting down a lot of wrangling in threads. Thoughts?
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[quote name='Ryle' timestamp='1340212049' post='59247']
Title it "working as intended"

XD
[/quote]
Thanks for your input, but the point of a suggestion forum is to collect feedback from players on where developers might have made mistakes specifically in their design. No matter how well-intended, they're only people and they're trying to do a massively complex job, generally on a rush basis.
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If you feel something isn't working correctly, post on Bug Tracker.
The BETA Staff will investigate and let the DEVs know.

Review this post as well.
https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/tracker/issue-112-broken-item-effects/
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[quote name='Darkk' timestamp='1340296481' post='59336']
If you feel something isn't working correctly, post on Bug Tracker.
The BETA Staff will investigate and let the DEVs know.

Review this post as well.
[url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/tracker/issue-112-broken-item-effects/"]https://forum.enb-emu...n-item-effects/[/url]
[/quote]

Of course. But the purpose of a suggestion forum is "should something be different" rather than reporting bugs.

The sticky would help people see why something is there and what it's supposed to do so we can get our perspective filled out before posting. I would guess that it would also help eliminate duplicate suggestions.
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I don't believe that the dev team is looking to add or change game functionality any time soon and I think that such a sticky would be very tricky to moderate.

From numerous dev posting their goal is to get the EMU as close to the functionality of EnB Live as possibly.

The answer to most "why is it like that" questions will be either[list=1]
[*]It's broken/not working correctly (write up a bug and we will look at it)
[*]The functionality is working as close to Live as possible.
[/list]
Also note that a lot of these issues will be addressed when the Devs get around to balancing. At the moment they are more focused on getting all functionality working and nto so much on the balancing aspect.
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[quote name='Crichton' timestamp='1340313026' post='59339']
I don't believe that the dev team is looking to add or change game functionality any time soon and I think that such a sticky would be very tricky to moderate.

From numerous dev posting their goal is to get the EMU as close to the functionality of EnB Live as possibly.

The answer to most "why is it like that" questions will be either[list=1]
[*]It's broken/not working correctly (write up a bug and we will look at it)
[*]The functionality is working as close to Live as possible.
[/list]
Also note that a lot of these issues will be addressed when the Devs get around to balancing. At the moment they are more focused on getting all functionality working and nto so much on the balancing aspect.
[/quote]

1. There's no moderation on an admin-only sticky thread. The admin collects the feature list and makes a post in the thread that names the feature and has info about its functionality (or just pastes what someone else has made up about it, there's tons of explanations).

2. Re everything being just like Live, that seems to be the prevailing attitude, but it couldn't be further from the truth. There have already been major changes from Live simply because the game works better.

Speed for example. Everyone loves how fast we can go now, but that's a radical change. If this were a real MMO, it would throw off the leveling curve for everything from trade to exploration. Yet a change that big seems to be completely overlooked while people talk about making it "just like Live".

I believe that's why we have a Suggestions forum - for people to come up with things just like the speed increase suggestion. Things that make the game better than Live was, without changing it from being EnB.
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The fact that the server can handle 999k warp is cool...but has a lot more to do with connection speeds and server hardware then a change to functionality. The devs tried increasing it to see if they could and if it would negatively effect the game. It worked and people got a kick out of it, and they have left it the way it is.....but will it stay that way? You are right that it is a balancing issue and it does effect leveling and may even cause connection/lag issues. The devs have stated that they may lower it/balance it when they get to that phase of the EMU but we aint there yet. Should people argue about it......try posting about it (there is already an old post regarding this) and see the fur fly. Only the devs have the data to say if it should/should not be modified. Players opinions matter little if lowering the speed corrects problems/fixes bugs/balances the game.

There really are very few things, which are fully working and not 'buggy', that are not working very closely with how they did in Live. Bringing up that x should do more damage or that b should give more xp is all balancing.....and again.....the emu isn't at that stage yet. I would still argue that there are almost as many things not working/not balanced as those that are.....so how would discussing how the basic functions of the game 'should work', before all functionality is implemented/balancing concluded, be helpful? The tricky thing with game coding/balancing as that changing one thing can effect a whole ton of others and destroy any balance that currently exists. I know the devs dont want to have to go back and re-do a ton of work that is working.

Now to be clear I am not saying[b] not[/b] to create such a thread. Post whatever you want. But I think it would bring up questions that have, and continued to be answered, (see the two two points previosuly posted) all over the forums and bug tracker. And yes, such a thread would require moderation as a) who would be able to accurately answer these questions but the devs that understand the coding/are coding it. They would be required to sit down and explain how everything functions and why? Man even if you pay a developer to do a job that request will likely not be answered past a basic design doc (and there are a ton of those already posted on the forums) B). Such a post is more likely to turn into a war (go read the combat cloak, JE and PW shield sap threads just to name a couple that pop to mind) and see how riled up people get when the game doesnt function the way 'they' beleive it should. The devs have stuck to the 'as close to live as possible' statement/viewpoint ever since this emu was started and at least the last 5+ years. They are trying to emulate the old game......not code a new one. If and when that is finished they may, and they have said this, look at changing existing and/or implementing new functionality. Edited by Crichton
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[quote name='Crichton' timestamp='1340341765' post='59389']
The fact that the server can handle 999k warp is cool...but has a lot more to do with connection speeds and server hardware then a change to functionality. The devs tried increasing it to see if they could and if it would negatively effect the game. It worked and people got a kick out of it, and they have left it the way it is.....but will it stay that way? You are right that it is a balancing issue and it does effect leveling and may even cause connection/lag issues. The devs have stated that they may lower it/balance it when they get to that phase of the EMU but we aint there yet. Should people argue about it......try posting about it (there is already an old post regarding this) and see the fur fly. Only the devs have the data to say if it should/should not be modified. Players opinions matter little if lowering the speed corrects problems/fixes bugs/balances the game.

There really are very few things, which are fully working and not 'buggy', that are not working very closely with how they did in Live. Bringing up that x should do more damage or that b should give more xp is all balancing.....and again.....the emu isn't at that stage yet. I would still argue that there are almost as many things not working/not balanced as those that are.....so how would discussing how the basic functions of the game 'should work', before all fucntionality is implemented/balancing concluded things occur, be helpful? The tricky thing with game coding/balancing as that changing one thing can effect a whole ton of others and destroy any balance that currently exists. I know the devs dont want to have to go back and re-do a ton of work that is working.

Now to be clear I am not saying[b] not[/b] to create such a thread. Post whatever you want. But I think it would bring up questions that have, and continued to be answered, (see the two two points previosuly posted) all over the forums and bug tracker. And yes, such a thread would require moderation as a) who would be able to accurately answer these questions but the devs that understand the coding/are coding it. they would be required to sit down and explain how everything fucntions and why? Man even if you pay a developer to do a job that request will likely not be answered past a basic design doc (and there are a ton of those already posted on the forums) B). Such a post is more likely to turn into a war (go read the combat cloak, JE and PW shield sap threads just to name a couple that pop to mind) and see how riled up people get when the game doesnt function the way 'they' beleive it should. The devs have stuck to the 'as close to live as possible' statement/viewpoint ever since this emu was started and at least the last 5+ years. They are trying to emulate the old game......not code a new one. If and when that is finished they may, and they have said this, look at changing existing and/or implementing new functionality.
[/quote]

See, I think this suggestion will SOLVE those problems, rather than amplify them. I see that much of the warring is caused by people who don't have the same or even accurate information, so everyone starts arguing about who's right. To use one of your examples, the CC thread. Will posted the bug reports long ago for the patch that's causing the exploitable condition. It's officially a temporary fix to enable gameplay during the stress test. Yet his voice and other voices of reason are STILL drowned out by the screams of outrage of people who are just plain ignoring his post.

But they can't ignore an official, dev-approved "Cloaking Description" post which has a note about the bug reports and reason for it. That's citeable in posts and a clear reason to shut down the arguments, even to locking the thread.

Re the information being posted "all over the forums", I see that as a root cause of problems for everyone. How much back-and-forthing is going on over something that's known, but not by the people discussing the issue or even taking action on it?

See what I'm saying? If what we have here isn't working, then we need to change something. Thinking about it, rather than a Suggestion thread, a Knowledge Base thread would be much more appropriate for this info.


Re changing the game, I have no idea why you'd even put up a suggestion forum if the devs are just going to ignore it in favor of the original design. I just note that there already have been good changes that everyone likes and would absolutely hate for them to be removed.

I mean, the new classes weren't in Live, but they were put in here because Live was launched incomplete and Westwood wanted them to be in. So they're in because they're in the SPIRIT of what Westwood was trying to do. Not the reality of what they actually accomplished as of Sunset.

I think that approach is a great thing and we should go with it. Everyone knows Live was incomplete, buggy, and not fully playtested, even if those facts are being obscured by a haze of nostalgia. So the Emulator crew has the chance to do something Westwood wasn't able to - launch a [b]completed[/b] EnB with the tweaks and tunes to make it a fully polished game.
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Maybe I am reading you wrong but are you proposing something that can be refereed to like:

[size=5]Terran Scout[/size]

[b]Afterburner - It makes you go faster.[/b]
[i] I cannot Jump Start people or myself.[/i]
[i] I try to activate Null Shield and it says that another skill is active.[/i]
Other skills cannot be used while Afterburner is ON. Activate it again (toggle) to switch it off. This is by design because scouts are idiots and cannot do two things at the same time. -OR- It should be concurrent skill. We are aware of this but it's a low priority item at this time because of yada yada..

Please correct me if I am wrong.
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[quote name='Grebbler' timestamp='1340387146' post='59457']
Maybe I am reading you wrong but are you proposing something that can be refereed to like:

[size=5]Terran Scout[/size]

[b]Afterburner - It makes you go faster.[/b]
[i]I cannot Jump Start people or myself.[/i]
[i]I try to activate Null Shield and it says that another skill is active.[/i]
Other skills cannot be used while Afterburner is ON. Activate it again (toggle) to switch it off. This is by design because scouts are idiots and cannot do two things at the same time. -OR- It should be concurrent skill. We are aware of this but it's a low priority item at this time because of yada yada..

Please correct me if I am wrong.
[/quote]

And if youre grouped with someone and turn on afterburn, you cant shut it off on them, so you can never use a skill again so long as youre grouped :)
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[quote name='Grebbler' timestamp='1340387146' post='59457']
Maybe I am reading you wrong but are you proposing something that can be refereed to like:

[size=5]Terran Scout[/size]

[b]Afterburner - It makes you go faster.[/b]
[i]I cannot Jump Start people or myself.[/i]
[i]I try to activate Null Shield and it says that another skill is active.[/i]
Other skills cannot be used while Afterburner is ON. Activate it again (toggle) to switch it off. This is by design because scouts are idiots and cannot do two things at the same time. -OR- It should be concurrent skill. We are aware of this but it's a low priority item at this time because of yada yada..

Please correct me if I am wrong.
[/quote]

Not so much by class but by software feature. In that case it would be:

Feature: Afterburner
Category: Travel
Usable by:[list]
[*]Terran Scout
[/list]
Description: A skill that increases Scout speed by X amount per skill level. Activated by on-off toggle.
Modifies:[list]
[*]Travel through grav wells is at full speed
[*]accuracy of impact weapons fired at the user is reduced 10% for every 100 combat speed over 500.
[*]Other skills cannot be used while Afterburner is on (same as Warp).
[/list]
Modified by:[list]
[*]Stacks with equipped, activated and group combat speed enhancements.
[/list]
Implementation stage:
ST4, task #yada
or
Alpha. Partially implemented in ST4 for stress testing, see task# yada for notes.

Ofc, everything I wrote is dummy copy, nobody take it seriously please.
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