I Think Its Time For Our Stuff To Get 'blowed Up!'

[jrichards]

So I submitted a bug about this a long time ago but it was closed as a 'balancing' issue and suggested I submit a ticket in another forum.....so here goes:

So last night I was tooling around gaining some explore xp doing a tour with some lowbie alts when I made a very bad warp jump into some level 30 miners in VG. Needless to say my lowbies took quite a pounding. Overall I would estimate that the four toons died about 20 times before I was able to get them free. Now the interesting thing was that of the level 2 engines, reactors, and devices the only item that took any damage was a single reactor. It was knocked down to 194% quality and 1% structure (damn cool) but it seems like the equipment really should have been damaged a bit more.......maybe not all losing quality but at least structure.

In New Player chat today I observed people chatting about this and stating that they never observed any of their equipment ever taking any damage even after multiple deaths and/or hull tanking. I imagine that there is some code in the EMU for this to occur, since it does occur, but that the % and/or checks are just not turned up very high. In Live there seemed to be a fairly high% chance that your equipment would take a structure hit, especially if nailed by higher level mobs, and killed multiple times. After a few deaths this generally also effected the quality of the gear by a % point or more.

I would love to see this working again and think the balance would be pretty easy to get right/test in a short period of time........if the Devs know where this code is located.

Ideas?

[Bleakend]

As someone who regularly does FB/Mordana/Controller and occasionally GoBB all my stuff, on all my toons, has lost 10% quality or more at times. It seems to depend on how many mobs are hitting me upon death. But after multiple deaths, i wish i had a screenshot, ive seen stuff take 10% quality reduction, sometimes twice in a row! lol.

[Terrell [BT]]

I'm not sure how it should be weighted, but I do think quality damage should be a possiblity. I do know that in Live when doing support (JSing Debuffing) on fishbowls I would not bring my Loony's Special Gizmoblatsit or Chili Popper because I didn't want their quality damaged (they were non-manufacturable mission rewards, and as far as I knew, irreplacable).

[Ryle [N7R]]

>.> When my black spitter took that 4 percent qual hit in that fishbowl that lagged so bad i actually got blown up, i was raging as it was

not sure if want

[kjeron]

The chance may be based on the killing mobs CL? Quality damage occurs quite frequently when you die at raids, up to 2x 10% per incapacitation. Structural damage usually just drops to 0% whenever something takes quality damage, it might take a few points otherwise, but still has no effect unless you relog or reinstall the equipment.

If you really want to see it's frequency, get a Chavez-friendly explorer and another toon with dummy equipment, and let the Controller mobs repeatedly kill the dummy, then JS them over and over.

[jrichards]

Sorry, I just want to help get the EMU back to Live status and this is functionality that is not working. I can understand if no high level players, that do nothing but raid with rare equipment could care less about this functionality.......but this was one of the things that made E&B so great. It might even encourage raiding groups to actually bring more than 5 toons to a raid too (because if you cant keep the mobs out of your hull yer gonna lose some quality on those uber items). Of all the raids you guys seem to have done you have taken quality damage on only a few items? That can't be balanced. Maybe the quality check is only being done when the player is killed or when the item reaches a very low structure......instead of when the mobs start hitting the player's hull? In live it seemed to be a % check based on mob level the amount of damage taken to the hull. Maybe it should be like a failed warp check in a grav well (for JE with max navigate). This check should be modified by HDC and HDC enabled/debuffed equipment.

note: Until this functionality is working there is no way to really check/confirm when/if HDC enabled equipment is working.

[Terrell [BT]]

That seems reasonable to me Crichton. I do think that quality damage should be possible, especially since for manufacturable items, it gives Traders more work to do. I do agree that Damage Control, both in terms of skills & buffs should make things more resistant to both Quality & Structure damage. There were also some buffs that gave damage control to particular classes of items, rather than everything. I do wonder if hull damage control & device damage control stack, w/r/t protection for structure & quality of devices. (same could be asked for HDC vs the other types of damage control buffs.

It would be nice; however, if there was a means of quality repair for irreplacable items. That's why I wouldn't take my Gizmoblatsit to fishbowls, but was okay with devices that could be rebuilt or replaced.

[jrichards]

Sounds like a nifty skill for the JT to have to me. Maybe with a chance to further damage the weapon? It would also be cool if it was a 1-shot skill use the way the PS does for resetting a player's skill. You have to have a device, maybe something that is difficult to make, and it has a % chance to increase the quality of a non-manu item but the device is used in the attempt.

In live, when tanking raids I would always equip a device that had HDC on it, for my PW, as it definitely made my gear take less damage. Some gear was specific to certain items (devices, shields, weapons) but the generic HDC was the best as it applied to everything. Now I have no clue if the generic HDC device would stack with a weapon specific HDC device. I don't think HDC equipment actually said that it increased skill level as then it would only work for classes with HDC. I think it worked like crit buff items in that even if you didn't have a crit skill it would increase your cirit %.

[Terrell [BT]]

I do like the idea of something comparable to the PE's Call forward, but I'd have the device be something she has to make. My one concern is shields, since Jenquai are not able to build those. I guess it could work under the premise that the warriors' Repair equipment works for structural damage regardless of racial strengths/weaknesses, and build skills.

[Kyp [LDEV]]

We went a little weak on item damage thus far, but rest assured it will be balanced properly before we're done... I'm going to let Byakhee do it.

[Falstar [MOD]]

lol - everyone start gathering up the remains of your equipment to sell for scrap metal...

[Ryle [N7R]]

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1339806052' post='59006']
We went a little weak on item damage thus far, but rest assured it will be balanced properly before we're done... I'm going to let Byakhee do it.
[/quote]

if there was a dislike button, id have just pressed it. you evil evil man.

[Lastbarghest]

I don't like the idea of more damage to items, but if there was the skill to repair non man stuff, I would be all for it. I went afk one day to mow the lawn, thinking I had warped to the gate, only to come back dead. The nav I clicked on had level 10 mobs that killed my 150+ pw. Everything was broken, the worst was my NOS, it dropped from 100% to 45% from one death. I haven't had anything close to that kind of equipment damage since, but I have only been killed by things like controller drones and such. Long story short, I don't miss or want more item damage lol.

[Mattsacre]

I think you misunderstand what HDC is/was SUPPOST to do, there was EDC and HDC, EDC items were to reduce the odds of equipment getting dinged, there were some that had specific protection/weakness, usually the item had a equip buff to protect itself,but sometimes if buffed another thing like a engine that buffed reactor. Then there were things that had weakness built in, specificly comes to mind one of the vendor jenny reactors had increased odds of dmg, it was a trade off for increase in some other area. There were a few high end items that offered protection to multiple items/systems.

HDC was different however, it didn't offer protection to gear per se, think of it a hull reflective coating, or force field reinforced bulk heads. It was suppost to reduce the damage taken to the HULL, after the shield got munched. So tanks could tank a little better when their shield was down and their hull was more effiecent. How HDC offered/offers equipment protection is: as the damage increased to hull, you had greater odds of something taking some collateral damage. So HDC slowed the rate in which your hull got to 50%.

Usually around 50% hull or so, you had a chance of a ding, as the dmg increased from there on you had increasing odds of a dent. Almost ALWAYS if you got incapacitated, you got a couple of % ding to something, not exclusively to one thing, it could be say 2-4% on one thing or spread around like 2% here , 2% there. With things that had equipment protection almost never taking a hit.

When you got spectaculary blowded up, like say a pack of L60's having dozens of shots incomming when you exploded, then you usually had a increased multi system dmg, or a small 2-3% to multiple systems (3-5) or a one 4-6% and 2-3% on another. When it was a whopper dinger it was usually a cumlative 10% total from one death, of course if you kept taking JS's without a tow and died in chain, so the dmg woiuld add up.

[Rossdie [BT]]

I don't see anyone talking about what actually got damaged first before quality, the first thing that took damage in live was structure (hence the repair skill), you had to get structure to 0 before quality would take a hit, granted some mobs would hit so hard structure would go down to 0 quick and then the quality damage would occur i.e FB raids and such. In most cases though quality hits were rare. As it is right now you don't even lose structure so nobody is even using skill points in repair equipment skill because the skill is useless right now.

[kjeron]

[quote name='Rossdie' timestamp='1340364441' post='59411']
I don't see anyone talking about what actually got damaged first before quality, the first thing that took damage in live was structure (hence the repair skill), you had to get structure to 0 before quality would take a hit, granted some mobs would hit so hard structure would go down to 0 quick and then the quality damage would occur i.e FB raids and such. In most cases though quality hits were rare. As it is right now you don't even lose structure so nobody is even using skill points in repair equipment skill because the skill is useless right now.
[/quote]

Structure damage occurs only on incapacitations right now, same a quality damage, and is usually all or nothing. There is no use for Repair Equipment since structural damage does not have any effect until you relog or re-equip the item. Structure is dropping first, though not always to 0 before quality damage occurs.

[Mattsacre]

[quote name='Rossdie' timestamp='1340364441' post='59411']
I don't see anyone talking about what actually got damaged first before quality, the first thing that took damage in live was structure (hence the repair skill), you had to get structure to 0 before quality would take a hit, granted some mobs would hit so hard structure would go down to 0 quick and then the quality damage would occur i.e FB raids and such. In most cases though quality hits were rare. As it is right now you don't even lose structure so nobody is even using skill points in repair equipment skill because the skill is useless right now.
[/quote]
Actually structure didn't have to go to 0 before dmg to gear, it was just at 0 structure TWO things happened,:
1.primary systems (engine,reactor,shield) got structure to 0 they ceased to function, a 0 structure engine would take like 10 tries or more to engage warp, a 0 structure shield would recharge at next to 0, same with reactor.
2.You could get quality damage to gear without structure to 0, but if it was 0 structure it was a near certainty to take quality hits from further dmg.

But you are correct that few level repair gear skills, while there is structure hits, most go tow before they are a repeat smoking ruin, thereby repairing structure, and since there isn't dock/tow fees, its a "free" fix, that if it wasn't so they might up fix gear skills a bit to avoid.