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The Combat Cloak Problem


Ryle

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Logic says that if the reactor is not generating energy (recharging) it should not be powering other components such as your shield. I will add it to the list to ensure the shields are not recharging during cloak. This was the benefit of Power Down for the PE versus cloak for the Jenquai. They were able to turn "derelict" and recharge whereas the Jenquai were not. However the PE could only get a Level 8 reactor if I recall correctly while the PW could use a 9 (Heart of the Dark One, for example, back when the Tada-O Gate was the big raid)

That being said, as I stated before look forward to a lot of balance changes. We'll be working on finishing AI implementation and getting all the resists working, then we're going to be seriously beefing up the raids a bit. This one-man-wonder thing on Raids will become a thing of the past. You're worried about us balancing before the resistance systems are working properly, this is part of why we haven't rushed to start changing the skills.
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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1340236818' post='59273']
Logic says that if the reactor is not generating energy (recharging) it should not be powering other components such as your shield. I will add it to the list to ensure the shields are not recharging during cloak. This was the benefit of Power Down for the PE versus cloak for the Jenquai. They were able to turn "derelict" and recharge whereas the Jenquai were not. However the PE could only get a Level 8 reactor if I recall correctly while the PW could use a 9 (Heart of the Dark One, for example, back when the Tada-O Gate was the big raid)

That being said, as I stated before look forward to a lot of balance changes. We'll be working on finishing AI implementation and getting all the resists working, then we're going to be seriously beefing up the raids a bit. This one-man-wonder thing on Raids will become a thing of the past. You're worried about us balancing before the resistance systems are working properly, this is part of why we haven't rushed to start changing the skills.
[/quote]



Let me say this again, shields recharging while cloaked was how it was in live, disabling it would afectively destroy the Jenquai race for combat. Its your game and you can do what you want but count me out for good if its implemented.

Oh and if you look at the JDs shield, Defenders Doumaru it has 51% shield recharge just for that reason, to help JD in combat Edited by Rezwalker
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I don't recall my shields recharging while cloaked in live but then I can't remember the name of the guild I was in either. I think it had the word Angels in it like Dark Angels or something like that...

I do recall my reactor discharging while cloaked, presumably to keep the cloak going? If the shields should recharge while cloaked shouldn't the reactor discharge that much more (or by some factor) otherwise where's the energy coming from?
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I played my JE a whole ton more than my JD and, you know being 10+ years ago I often don't remember specifics, correctly.....but I do recall general impressions.....and I think most people are using those remebrances as examples of how they think stuff worked in Live.

I ran across this today from patch notes in Live that show how Jen damage is calculated. The devs seem to have a ton of info on the original functionality so I imagine this is how it works in the EMU as well but I still found this interesting :) :
[quote]
In Earth & Beyond all damage modifiers are applied in an additive manner. This means that all damage modifiers are first summed then applied to the base damage of a weapon. Therefore in a case where only the weapon skill damage modifier is in play the calculation would be (Base Damage)*(1+Weapon Skill Modifier). For example, we have a Base Damage of 50 and a weapon skill modifier of 100% (which translates into a modifier of 1.00). The damage would be calculated as 50*(1+1.00), or 50*2, or 100. When a second modifier is introduced into the calculation the formula becomes (Base Damage)*(1+(Sum of All Modifiers)). If we introduce Stealth Strike, a 100% damage modifier, into our example the calculation would be (Base Damage)*(1+(Weapon Skill Modifier)+(Stealth Strike Modifier)), or 50*(1+(1.00)+(1.00)), or 150. These calculations yield the mean damage. Damage volatility, which varies according to damage type, is then applied to the mean damage. In the case of energy damage the modifier is +/-25%, so our example that includes Stealth Strike could yield results ranging from 112-188. Finally, there is a range component for all beam weapons. At max range, a beam only does 50% of its maximum damage. At half of max range and below, beams are capable of putting out 100% damage. So, at max range, our 112-188 damage is scaled down to 56-94.
[/quote]

from [url="http://www.earthandbeyond.ca/server/patchviewer.jsp-id=476.html"]http://www.earthandb...jsp-id=476.html[/url]
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[quote name='Rezwalker' timestamp='1340237493' post='59275']
Let me say this again, shields recharging while cloaked was how it was in live, disabling it would afectively destroy the Jenquai race for combat. Its your game and you can do what you want but count me out for good if its implemented.

Oh and if you look at the JDs shield, Defenders Doumaru it has 51% shield recharge just for that reason, to help JD in combat
[/quote]


Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it was just the reactor that wouldn't recharge for Jenquai while cloaked. Shields would recharge as long as the reactor had juice.

EDIT: If memory serves me correctly....shield recharge was slower cloaked than uncloaked, but they did recharge.
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Excellent, The Jenquai's Reactor will loose power while cloaked and the Shields won't recharge.
I'll take that over a Jenquai Over haul on CC.

So lets see, No shield recharge While Cloaked, See Cloak Implemented, 25-50% damage on in-bound during Cloak & Cloaking.
That should quite the crowd, You Think ? Lets see......
(Patronising)
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If you check this page from Primaguide it mentions about cloak and energy draine, says nothing about shields.


hm, dont have space to upload
ok lets try it this way

[attachment=1607:Untitled.jpg] Edited by Rezwalker
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The reason why the reactor does not recharge for Jenquai is because cloak drains energy over time.

Shields did recharge in live while cloaked. I have no idea where this idea came from, but I can assure you I spent many a time cloaked and waiting for my shields to recharge in VG, for example.

I think you guys are grasping at straws for a quick an easy fix here. The cloak buff taking 0 secs to initiate is the bugg. Focus!
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[quote name='Logane' timestamp='1340240664' post='59282']
The reason why the reactor does not recharge for Jenquai is because cloak drains energy over time.

Shields did recharge in live while cloaked. I have no idea where this idea came from, but I can assure you I spent many a time cloaked and waiting for my shields to recharge in VG, for example.

I think you guys are grasping at straws for a quick an easy fix here. The cloak buff taking 0 secs to initiate is the bugg. Focus!
[/quote]

Not saying this is how it worked in live but it kind of makes sense that your shield recharge would at least be slower while you were cloaked. Its clear that there are several things that need to be fixed for Mobs but I don't think anyone is asking to nerf Jen or break their skills. Ryle pointed out something that apparently has been an issue that people have either ignored, exploited, or been unaware of for quite some time. Most posters are offering suggestions.....which the devs probably will ignore since they have direct knowledge of how this stuff is functioning......but hey, that's the point of forums.....to chat about stuff. :P


[quote name='Drained' timestamp='1340240770' post='59283']
Wher.... where am i? Who are you people and where's my horse?!
[/quote]

I saw Vaden with it.....not sure why he was riding on it backwards but he went >>
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[color=#FFFF66][b]Patch Message for 1/21/2003[/b][/color]
[url="http://www.earthandbeyond.ca/server/patchviewer.jsp-id=476.html"]http://www.earthandb...jsp-id=476.html[/url]

[b][quote]Fixed a bug where MOBs were able to continue firing on and using skills and items against players for a brief period of time after the player successfully cloaked. MOBs that cannot see through the cloak ability can no longer affect players once the cloak ability has successfully passed through the power-up phase. Pre-existing damage over time effects will run their full course before being removed from the player.[/b][/quote]
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Just a curiosity here.

Why are you so interested in me "proving" i can do these things? Is there some kind of mentality here that thinks only you are capable of these feats?

I soloed mordana without even blinking, straight up wasnt even hard, just very long and drawn out. While I was doing this the market channel was pretty well claiming it couldnt be done by a solo jd. I proved it could.

I just find it amusing how the people who have been benefitting from, and utilizing the most, this exploit are the ones so quick to debunk me as a liar.

Im not gonna sit there and be your little monkey while you distract me as I solo mob X or mob Y. One mistake or missed keypress and id die just like you would.

Maybe ill post a screen when im done, but im sure as heck not here to "perform" for you.

Theres no rite of passage. Its an exploit being tested thoroughly to see how and why it does what it does. If lag is involved, if there is a way to cause the staycloaked while firing bug, and so on.

Its not about e-peen, its about seeing the full scope of the problem, and as far as i can tell, this has a nearly unlimited scope.
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Yes because whoever the big baby -1 all of my posts is going to make the problem go away, right?

I aint goin anywhere son. Care to live up to who you are? Got balls? Edited by Ryle
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[img]http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/5853/screenshot14or.jpg[/img][img]http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/3202/screenshot11ro.jpg[/img]W[img]http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9674/screenshot12qb.jpg[/img]
Soloing mordana with just one JD is not possible. As you can see, down to almost no hull after the third lvl 44 killed. And this is coming from a JD who has done fb/gobb solo with top level gear at 100% or greater and with a cloak buff. Maybe it was magic?
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So youre claiming I didnt do it?

Would you like to see the looted ghost edge I got last night? Now I wish id screened the corpse of the rapture. I knew this was what you were on about Bleak.
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[quote name='Drained' timestamp='1340263857' post='59307']
Look you just got lucky, i tried it three times actually and got to the 4th wave, so yes, without screens or anything I honestly believe you did not do it.
[/quote]

Ah ok, so its one of those things where if you cant do it, it must be impossible. I wish your ego wasnt clouding your judgement dude.

Ill try it again later on, when I have some time to sit and take a solid hour with no interruptions. If I did it once, I can do it again. I got no problem proving this one, I know what to expect now. Edited by Ryle
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Nope, and I knew you were gonna go there rofl. You just haven't provided any evidence, none, just talk, not even any witnesses lol. I'm not sure if you know this, but in a court of law there's a defender and a prosecutor (at least in the criminal courts) and each is burdened with a task of providing evidence. The prosecutor has to prove that the defendant is guilty and the defender has to prove his client is innocent. The logic here is Claim--> Evidence--> Conclusion. So far, you can pick whichever you'd like to be prosecutor or defender, you have provided no evidence supporting anything you have done as a JD besides personally attack people. I, on the other hand, have provided detailed photographic evidence of my experience with said mobs, Mordana and GoBB minions. Also wasn't the only JD who tried mordana, they all failed too. So I dunno, yeah you got lucky, you have made the claim that you did indeed kill all 7 or 8 waves of Mordana, but you have provided no evidence. So your claims, therefore, are baseless.
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Fraps it is


You know what I dont get about you Bleak? You were wearing this ability like a badge of honor and running your mouth in guild chat about interfering with the big guilds rotation, but when you get called out for doing it and others seek to find the mechanics that make it possible to fix, you go into attack mode to discredit or make it sound like it was harder than it was.

I dunno, for someone who said they soloed GoBB and Fishbowl pretty easily "it just took hours", youre certainly in a hurry to make it seem like you somehow have powers that only let you do it.

Hax perhaps? Some sploit I dunno about? We shall see. Ive observed some pretty solid evidence of a cloak glitch where mobs give up looking for you after a few cycles (how i actually soloed mordana, rapture and the MK VI's didnt even fire at me, it was as if they couldnt even see me, im serious) Edited by Ryle
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So much fighting, so much hate, so much crying over a game and its mechanics that are in an unfinished/unpolished/unbalanced (add whatever you can think of) state.

Sure there will always be people that using the provided mechanics will abuse/work around the system and its intented use.
Is it really a question of because one person is doing it why shouldn't i? And the main gripe is about endgame/raid content right?

Sorry but i dont see it that way. If someone [b]prefers[/b] to solo content specifically designed to be tackled with a [b]group [/b]of players in a [b]MMO[/b] then i pitty those, not envy them. Better go play my solo game of CIV or whatever.

Maybe you'll say you are not in a big guild to do it, so? Make friends and ask them to help.

I'm always willing to help anyone if i'm around and not otherwise engaged at the time and i'm sure i'm not the only feeling that way. Lots of great players around. What made this game great at the time was its community and it still is its main strength.

Having faith in the Devs and patience will eventually be rewarded cause they do it out of their love for this community. Support this community and single out the rare individual that acts unbefitting it.
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