Ambush Alpha Testing / Intuneric Vigoare Inconsistent

[Lot]

My privateer LotPP was 150 before the current incarnations of Agrippa research.

Used up some stage two invites for reactors, shields and weapons. Passed all the examinations and made progress and got so far as the applications with Intuneric Vigoare to goto Cooper for testing the three items.

Built a Flechette Alpha, installed it and got the test mission from IV.

Built a Skirmish Alpha, installed it and got the test mission from IV.

Built an Ambush Alpha, installed it and .... Intuneric Vigoare told me to go lower my faction with Red Dragon and refused to give me the mission. What is not adding up here? How can I only get two out of three missions? Does not compute.

These are LotPPs factions, are there others that are relevant?

Collegia Traders = +15,165
The Red Dragon = +9,513

IV: Well LotPP, lets see if the Ambush Alpha reactor works.
LotPP: How?
IV: A level 7 reactor should be ... blah blah blah.
LotPP: I don't intend to annoy the Red Dragons.

[b]Key point: Note the above was the only reply that I was allowed to give.[/b] The dialog for the gun and shield test applications provided two reply options. The reactor application allowed only one reply. Didn't get the 2nd option to reply "They will crumble before my might" or words to that effect.

Is this a bug or some weird faction re-computation mystery that goes on now with Agrippa that only affects the reactor test mission application but not the application for gun and shield testing? I am not about to savage my RD faction until I understand what's going on here ... bug or not.

Byakhee can you tell me what has gone wrong here please? Or what I need to do if anything?

Agrippa has become Agripparghhhhhhh yet again, lol. Edited March 25, 2012 by Lot

[TooTall]

I created a PP in Novenber and did all Agrippa stage I, II and III build missions with about the same faction levels as you, between mid January to late February and had no hangups as you describe.

This must be due to his recent faction additions.

[Mattsacre]

By my calculations, when you subtract +9,513 from +15,165 it looks like this: 15,165 - 9,513= 5,652.
So since the faction thing may be in (they have posted about it going into agrippa tech and how that effects it btw)

That leaves you with an ADJUSTED faction with collegia of +5,652

So if factioning is in the agrippa content via a recent patch, this would mean in dealing with collegia NPCs and taking tests etc. they use +5,652. If you are at a stage that needs +6k you would need to either kill enough RD to lower faction with them -349 or raise your collegia +349, this would put you just 1 over a ADJUSTED faction of +6k with collegia, however if its a stage that needs +8k....you need to make that -2,349 or +2,349.

Take note, for adjustment purposes, since collegia hate RD, when you kill one of the RD and drive that down, there may be a corrisponding increase in collegia (not sure haven't tested or seen the faction grid of yet), so you may only need to kill a fraction as much RD as you think.

Also per byahkee's posts on the matter, what may be in play here, since the other testers were good with you but this one isn't....the ASSOCIATED hated faction, each of the 3 build npc's have a 2nd bias against another faction, so that npc you are having problems with may have another bias besides RD influencing the adjustment....

Skirmish alpha..is that the device? I'm pretty sure the device type npc is a PS type...associated with the PS faction of the progen, if memory serves me right they didn'y like infinicorp..or was that collegia (PP) type..hmmm better look at faction grid :

[Lot]

Ok, so it seems the faction required for the mission may be adjusted up or down in the range 60-160%.

Lets say a stage three mission requires 10,000 faction originally sort of ball park area. Depending on other factions that goal will be adjusted to between 6,000 and 16,000. It seems that just Scuti and Composita deal in goals adjusted dynamically by faction. I am guessing Telum and Vegeto both do not have this dynamic adjustment in place yet.

I would have thought LotPP had enough positive Collegia faction already to cover the worst adjustment of 160%. Especially since the faction goals for the stage two research are lower than stage three requirements (at the base values). And I don't think it is likely that the penalty is as much as160% either, due to LotPPs high Centuriata faction so making me further puzzled.

These are the factions that I believe effect Scuti:

Collegia +15,165 -- Centuriata +15,019 -- Infiniticorp -1,281 -- Red Dragon -- +9,513
There may be others too that have not been detailed.

But then again, it is Vigoare that is setting these test missions not Scuti, Telum or Vegeto. With or without dynamic goal adjustment (if there is any at all on Vigoare) the standard would be the same for testing all three Alpha items (not including devices).

Thus making this harder to puzzle out and hence why I am asking Byakhee for illuminatary advice.

NB. Nice to be at the forefront testing stuff like this... I... think. Edited March 25, 2012 by Lot

[Lot]

[quote name='TooTall' timestamp='1332587807' post='55914']
I created a PP in Novenber and did all Agrippa stage I, II and III build missions with about the same faction levels as you, between mid January to late February and had no hangups as you describe.

This must be due to his recent faction additions.
[/quote]

Was your "virgin" privateer dallying in stuff that widely adjusted factions during his short career? I would expect a newish privateer to sail through Agrippa because that is basically what Agrippa wants so there would be no road blocks in their path if they stuck with their initial faction spectrum. I am doing this with a privateer that has been around for two years and has an alterred set of factions, lol.

What you're saying though is that the basic dialog with Intuneric works alright for Alpha testing stuff on a privateer. Edited March 24, 2012 by Lot

[Terrell [BT]]

What are the extremes on faction? Are there upper and lower limits of how much a faction can love or hate you? If so, what is the best faction possible, as well as the worst? Are there affiliation adjustments to such limits if they exist?

[Lot]

Ahh wait it is the Ambush Alpha not the Skirmish Alpha, that I am having trouble with. That is a reactor and therefore Vegeto who apparently does not yet have dynamic faction goals. Scuti does and I have no issue getting the Alpha test to go to Cooper to test the shield (or the weapon). Just thought I'd add that comment into this crazy mix, lol.

Does seem more and more like Intuneric Vigoare is muddled up some how. Edited March 24, 2012 by Lot

[Lot]

I ran to Cooper and did both of the alpha tests for flechette alpha and skirmish alpha and handed in the missions.

I then tried to get the alpha test for the reactor again.

Still no joy - have a screenshot to pass the time.

[attachment=1447:amb7intvig.jpg]

[TooTall]

[quote name='Lot' timestamp='1332613111' post='55932']
Was your "virgin" privateer dallying in stuff that widely adjusted factions during his short career? I would expect a newish privateer to sail through Agrippa because that is basically what Agrippa wants so there would be no road blocks in their path if they stuck with their initial faction spectrum. I am doing this with a privateer that has been around for two years and has an alterred set of factions, lol.

What you're saying though is that the basic dialog with Intuneric works alright for Alpha testing stuff on a privateer.
[/quote]

Nope, built her just for Agrippa stuff. I was being careful not to change her faction, if at all.

Yup, the diaologue works, which was my point, at least last month, lol

[Lot]

LotPP finished stage two invites for weapons and shields and completed all stages.

Unfortunately, stage two invite for reactors still does not proceed in to the alpha test because Intuneric Vigoare still will not play ball. It is puzzling me because neither weapons or shields were a problem and because Vigoare allowed alpha testing for the shield and weapon and beta testing for the weapon as well.

I know that Vigoare needs the Ambush Alpha to be equipped and that was what I ensured before opening her dialog.

Another screenshot to pass the time showing a different oddity, this time in the dialog with Vegato:

[attachment=1448:amb7veg.jpg]

Waiting for Byakhee to reply /emote :waitingtobehitbythecluebat:.

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

ok.

Yes
Yes
No

- Basically code is in game that can allow <= and >= to be applied, so ideally it has been applied.
- Looks like in this case its no longer working... correctly.


I was attempting to do:

< FactionA & < FactionB "Yes" --- Talk info 1
>= FactionA & <FactionB "Yes" --- Talk info 2
<FactionA & >=FactionB "Yes" --- Talk info 3
>=FactionA & >=FactionB "Yes" --- Talk info 4
"No" -- Exit

It appears not to like combinations of factions so the other route for me to do is a binary boolean tree

1. FactionA
• < -- go to 2
• >= -- go to 3

2. FactionB
• < -- go to 4
• >= -- go to 5

3. FactionB
• < -- go to 5
• >= -- go to 6

4:action (A,B) (<,<)

5:action (A,B) (<, >=) or ( >=,<)

6:action (A,B) (>=,>=)


However as you can see this takes up 6 stages of a talk tree where you would still only see 3 stages.
The attempt above was to combine A/B in one talk condition, taking up less stages.

A talk tree has a maximum amount of stages limited to it (default or mission stage).

So what you are seeing for

Yes
Yes
No

Should work once the code is correct and go to

Yes
No


===========

Hmm...
Remember there are 2 liked factions and 3 hated factions.
Think your collegia faction may not be enough as it stands, but i'll have a look at it (soon).

Ambush Alpha should not have changed much.

[Lot]

[quote name='Byakhee' timestamp='1332796481' post='55989']
Hmm...
Remember there are 2 liked factions and 3 hated factions.
Think your collegia faction may not be enough as it stands, but i'll have a look at it (soon).

Ambush Alpha should not have changed much.
[/quote]

Thought that yes yes no would entertain you, lol.

It might help you figure out answers if you had an idea of LotPPs factions:

[attachment=1449:lotppfact.jpg]

Please don't tell me Bogeril are one of the hated factions! Edited March 26, 2012 by Lot

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

Collegia Faction is sufficient...
May be some kind of wierd interraction.

I'll just have to check the mission

[Lot]

The server restart this morning appeared to push the latest content. My privateer went to revisit Intuneric Vigoare to see about testing the Ambush Alpha reactor but still she won't allow the mission to be taken.

Re-attaching faction table as the attachment was mangled/lost during the web server location move.

[attachment=1499:lotppfact.jpg]

I appreciate that tools may have been offline or unavailable during the server relocation.

I still hope Byakhee that you will be able to resolve Vigoares recalcitrance (recycled genome may do the trick!) or hint what kind of bribery may be required.

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

Had a look at this mission now.
For some time was unable to access due to server moving (and then work got in the way)

There has been a change to this mission due to faction.

Storyline content really, but Intuneric Vigoare hates Red Dragons. Her missions will eventually involve a choice of you to decrease your standing with them and not use Pirate Gates; or go you pirate scum way aaahggghhhhh.... me hearties and not have access to higher level Agrippa Gear.

The Choice selection for Red Dragon hating is:

I don't intend to annoy the Red Dragons. --> mission is postponed
They will crumble before my might. ---> mission continues

Unfortunately, I can confirm that you do have too high Red Dragon faction for this mission. This is due to Centuriata funding the Agrippa Technology research; and for some reason they seem to bear the brunt of damage from good centuriata going the pirate route...

You will need to reduce your Red Dragon Faction to below +1000 to qualify.

[kjeron]

[quote name='Byakhee' timestamp='1334464674' post='56789']

You will need to reduce your Red Dragon Faction to below +1000 to qualify.
[/quote]

That's A LOT of faction grinding for some of us, especially after you said this:
[quote name='Byakhee' timestamp='1329614054' post='54002']
Each friendly grants a reduction on 20%
Each unfriendly costs an increase of 20%

So Maximum is now 160% (ie not friendly and very unfriendly)

Work in progress though, working on implementing it on the Shield Line first.
[/quote]

Related - We really need faction caps implemented.

[Lot]

Well, thanks for the reply Byakhee.

Not sure yet whether I want to ROFL about on the floor or wipe out RD faction to below 1,000. As Will pointed out, that is a great deal of faction grinding to accomplish the reduction from nearly 10k. But not impossible. At the back of my mind there is a wondering if I won't find out yet another roadblock after achieving that faction goal for Red Dragon (may be not yet implemented until next content push ...).

Just to reiterate again my privateer has already passed testing Alpha and Beta Agrippa research for weapons and shields. It is amusing that this roadblock was thrown up only for reactors. But I suppose Intuneric Vigoare will eventually have the same attitude towards testers for shields and weapons too. Or there is some other contrivance going on that I am unaware of and do you care to comment?

[Mattsacre]

He ammended the -/+ 20% thing, there are 2 friendly factions and 2 unfriendly factions in the dynamic mix, the first of the friendly and the first of the unfriendly influence to a greater amount than second of both.
Ex.: PP npc loves collegia, then respects centriata, your collegia amount is greater influence in dynamic calculation then the centriata , PP npc hates RD and infinicorp, more loaths RD and dislikes infinicorp, so the RD will influence the calculation more than the infinicorp will.

after you calculate the lesser and greater love/hates you calculate the new modified factions thus: (A+=x , (D+C)= y , (x-y)=n n=new dynamic faction sum.

Npc need a faction level of z

z=>n= yes, NPC accepts you go on further talk tree and content. z<n = no, NPC disallows you and leads you out of talk tree and content.

HOWEVER, his last post may have meant one of two things: 1. currently NPC is demanding <+1k RD faction to advance talk tree (I don't think this is the Devs ultimate intent, the factions are meant to be dynamic after all) or 2. This particular NPC's second like/dislike faction differs from the other 2 npcs and that is somehow dragging the dynamics afoul.

I think there is a bug in the mix per his post, that the npc is insisting on a hard <+1k RD when it should be fluid with the dynamic calculation. The very intent of faction dynamicism is that you shouldn't need to faction grind a set faction drasticly one way or other to further your goals, but rather bump one or two a little this way and the other one or two the other way to get a composite score you need.

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

I'm going to have a look at this in more detail.
I know Intuneric hates Red Dragons, and it was the intent that she showed you her displeasure somehow.

She may just invoke a surcharge (kerching! credit sink) for those with High Red Dragon faction.
Say
1 million between 1-5k Red Dragon Faction
4 million between 5-9k Red Dragon Faction
9 million above 9k Red Dragon Faction

{now, don't look at me that way, Lot.}

How this is likely to be done in mission stages...

St 1: Talk Tree
St 2: Block (Refer to actual stage)
St 3: Intuneric wants an additional 5 million credits due to your alligiance with the Red Dragons
St 4: Intuneric wants an additional 3 million credits due to your alligiance with the Red Dragons
St 5: Intuneric wants an additional 1 million credits due to your alligiance with the Red Dragons
St 6: Start mission

Now in the talk tree then it would check your RD faction

- Red Dragon Faction <= 0 ---> Go straight to St 6 of mission
- RD Faction >= 1k & < 5K --> Go to St 5
- RD Faction >= 5k & < 9K --> Go to St 4
- RD Faction >= 9k --> Go to St 3

So if you did have 9K RD faction you would have to do St 3, 4 and 5 (9 million credits in total) before starting the actual main part of the mission. Does this make sense to you? At least you get to do the mission, you just get to pay for being a pirate to the [b]Centuriata and Grissom Space Patrol orphan fund.[/b]


This will make the mission a multi-stage one similar to the others.

[Lot]

9M credits for the CGSPOF? No problembo, don't mind that at all.

But I reserve the right to go increase the size of the orphan pool to thin out the share and reclaim some credits indirectly.

[Mattsacre]

[quote name='Lot' timestamp='1334720473' post='56867']
9M credits for the CGSPOF? No problembo, don't mind that at all.

But I reserve the right to go increase the size of the orphan pool to thin out the share and reclaim some credits indirectly.
[/quote]
LOL..
Hey leave the GSP alone!..they stand between the tengu and complete chaos (since tada-o and infinicorp are too lazy ti defend their own mess) Edited April 18, 2012 by Mattsacre

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

The problem with adjusting the stages due to credits is that existing players may go 'wtf' I was not meant to be on St 2 Pay this amount of credits.

So I'll tag it on as to stages at the end of the missions where you then have to contribute funds

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

Update:

Mission on server as it stands has the RD restriction part in the text removed.
A server restart will remove this blockage to your mission currently.

Next update will have the credit requirement in for device, reactor and shields.

[Mattsacre]

So basicly you drive up RD faction to get to BBW access, but agrippa hate RD so now they want more money to look the other way...haha.....bet theres going to be drone camping in BBW to get the money to pay for the bribes...fitting, truely fitting! lol

[nimr0dbbow[IS]]

Yes.
Either way it will be interesting.

Now to apply it to weapon testing and it should be complete.