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Heya every1,

since a couple days now i am getting lag when fighting with multiple mobs (4-10)
ive tried everything i can think of on my side,

no connections issues what so ever,
restarted modem,
checked pc for open connection, theres non that dont belong,
everything is doing what it is supposed to.
my connection is stable at around 15-18mb

multiple people are having the same issue.
dont matter where they are from in the world.
was with some1 from the US (im from holland)
and he had same issue.

any1 got more info or suggestions pls respond

Best regards Siccius
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i have it to.. starts with something like 4 or more mobs.. stuf starts responding slow.
push a button..nutting happends.
try to warp becouse you cant do anything you get the animation and stuff but you still sitting there getting shot and slowly dying.

like siccius i have been in VG alot when it happend..
but its not only there.

like siccius i have tried alot of stuff trying to make it go away but with no luck
its no graphical lag (old game why would it)
my connection is fine aswel..

i also started getting this sinds last week orso.

my 2 cents.

regards,

Dennis (pigtail)
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has to be mob related. in cooper 4 mob not much lag but 8 - 10 on me lag out and die. no other players in sight.
fish bowl full grp and some alts 10 toons i lag out and game crahes when close to mobs. away from mob no lag.

im on $500.00 computers not high dollar gaming.
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most of the time its just me and Pigtail.
but it happens when flying solo as well.

been around 2 full groups with only 2-3 mobs then
were having no probs.

so imo it has nothing to do with the amount of players in view.

best regards Siccius
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I have been running tests with 30 mobs with updates switched to max and no lag. I'm running a pretty new PC with a high end graphics card - although I have noticed the game doesn't run very well on the old laptop these days (at least, not as well as it used to) - I overrode the recommended settings which could be it.

Could you let me know exactly which mob groups are causing this for you both please? Location (sector and closest nav), and mob type/s.

ta,

TB
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Vindis drones in Nif are awful for lag with more than 6 or 8 pounding on you.(Shipyard nav)
Was my PW with a guildie on his TT, we got wrecked by 20 second delays once they all mobbed on us. (actually got through it once, barely, but the second time we got a mass mobbing, it was just too much. I run a gaming PC, it aint my comp)

Cooper by the 55 fish when the 53s and 51s spam that tactics buff every 10 seconds is just as bad. (Tet nav and around the desash spawn)

The respawn rates are just insane too. Kill 1, another 2 spawn, to like a max of 12, then they stop til you kill a few, then BLAM all back again. It just builds on itself. So no matter what you do, sans a full DPS group, you get into this impossible cycle of just getting drowned in lag and mobs. Edited by Ryle
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Have seen this situation in VG around OS1 and OS2.
It does not consistently occur. Started seeing it about three days ago after a double update.

Will be under attack by several mobs and try to cloak but unable to in time. Attack continues and shield depletion continues but no response to cloaking. When I try to warp out of the immediate area the graphics appear to be warping in place. Attacks and shield depletion continue. At this point can't use any action that can not be done while warping. Get the "Cannot be used while warping" but mob attacks and shield depletion continue. Eventually the stop warp might catch up and allow a cloak to activate, at which time the mob attacks and shield depletion cease, but usually hull damage has started to occur.

Did not see this problem in Antares around the Voltoi in between occurances in VG.

Using a JD 150

Have noted that whenever this situation occurs then the perimeter mobs can be seen up to 200 units away. On one occasion was able to get warp activated and at a distance of 150 units from the origin of attack all of the mobs in that area were still visible by scan. Looked like a group of red blips in the middle of space.

Seems like when I start seeing mobs outside of the normal scan range I can go to a gate and exit/reenter and everything is back to normal.

Had tried logging out but situation still came back. Tried logging off system but situation eventually came back.

Must say though that everything went well during my most recent period in VG.

Thanks
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mob groups: the ones in VG with the funky name. seeding 1-2 but other navs aswell
the titans at nav lattice 3-4 and triple
the naglifer in Nif Cloud next to planet Modi's fist

those are the spots i remember by heart.
been there solo and with other ppl.
mostly pigtail twice with endershaddai and elshaddai.

but to be honest i cannot understand how a 10y/o game is able to
put a 2010+ pc to its knees.
i also use a gaming rig, liquid cooled, I7, gtx460, 6gb ram.
its just impossible for a game with this system req:

MINIMUM PC REQUIREMENTS
Windows 98/ME/2000/XP
MINIMUM:
56Kbps Modem
Pentium III 500MHz Processor
128MB RAM
4X CD-ROM Drive
2GB Hard Disk Space
32MB Direct3D Accelerated Video Card
DirectX 8.1
Keyboard
Mouse
RECOMMENDED
Pentium III 800MHz Processor
256MB RAM
16X CD-ROM Drive

to do that.
these days we are using pc's which have like "Kazillion" times the requirement that is recommended :)
Also the isp connections we have are like 2000 times the speed needed.

Best regards Siccius Edited by kiegern
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I went out to the shipyard and did some combat with the Vindis drones.

While I didn't see any of the lag you're getting, I did notice the data volume rate goes way over the safe mark, which is not a good thing - most PC's won't keep up with that. Besides the screen becomes too crowded to see what's going on really.

I'll have another look at the packet choke system.
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[font=Arial]It’s been said before, numerous times, and has fallen on deaf ears, but I feel compelled to open my big mouth and say it again, MOB SCAN and MASS AGRO is creating the heavy data loads, and now with all the mob skill spams has made it worse.[/font]

A reminder for some of you that forgot how it was in live, one example, miner with 0.1 sig could mine 1.4k away from a manes and not even get noticed, why? most mobs where blind unless you fired on them, second example,t[font=Arial]JD with 4k beam range shoots mob then cloaks, mob just spins around like crazy trying to figure out where the shot was coming from, why? mob had short scan range and a delay in response time to agro, another example, TE with 7.5k ML range and low sig could just lob shots at a mob and move back a bit and again mob would spin around or go left and right or whatever trying to find the attacker, why? bad eyes lol.[/font]

Now lets talk about how it is now, player shoots mob, mob instantly shoots back even when not facing player or spins on a dime and every other mob within 25k comes running to help, even if you cloak, they still come to where you are and linger around for a time, some times for 30 seconds or longer till they go on there merry way again. Another thing, you ever notice how fast the mobs shoot them beams? seems like they all have .5 sec reload time, low damage most of them but way to fast, give them more damage per shot and a realistic firing rate, lets say 6 sec or something. To sum it up, we have 20 mobs, firing twice a sec, spamming skills every 10 secs or something then mix it in with a few MLs, poof goes the server. Oh and I forgot to mention, a mob can shoot at 2, 3 or more targets/players without missing a beat, pew, pew, pew all around lol, what's up with that? it would be more realistic if it fought one attacker at a time and hold agro longer.

Rez over and out........ Edited by Rezwalker
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Lag has gotten worse over the past few weeks when fighting large groups of mobs. The way I usually do it is with my PW and a TT in tow. I can gather up groups of say 5-6 fish in Cooper without any problems, but when the group of mobs grows to 15-20 things start going downhill fast. It's usually ok for a few minutes when the mob count is growing. After a few activations of group sapping sphere and Shield Nova it starts to get progressively worse. The problem seems to be exacerbated when the ten-gu start to engage Rally and the animation is being displayed across 10-20 mobs.

It's a very odd sort of lag too. My PW will get bogged down to the point where my guns stop shooting and skills don't activate. If I engage warp my ship will go through the animations but remain stationary. If I swap to my TT's account though she is fine, she can use her skills and heal my PW all day long while the fight continues. The only way to get out of this situation alive is for my PW to fly away from the area at full impulse while my TT heals him.

I thought that it might have been an issue with the PC I was using when I first encountered this issue. My main gaming PC was down for repair and I was using my fileserver to play. I tested this issue again when my gaming rig was back on it's feet with the same results. My main gaming rig is a watercooled i7-2600k with 16GB's of ram and 3 580GTX graphics cards. Since the issue is not machine specific and it doesn't seem to effect the other 2-3 accounts running on my PC it leads me to believe that it has to do with the way the server is communicating data to my PW during these massive fights. There has to be a major bottleneck somewhere.

I hope the description of my problem helped in some way :)

Edit: Forgot to mention that this is occuring near the Observation navs around the Tada-O gate.
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It's not as simple as a direct scan range/lag correlation. I'm working on a slightly different system to represent MOB movement, which should help immensely with the lag. Also the skills usage is getting an overhaul too.

I want to get the data rate down to no more than 2500 in the big fights.
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I can confirm that this happens with a single toon fighting numerous mobs (and gets multiplied the more player around).

Glenn Planet/Moon, Chavez nav, farming for faction.

As soon as you have 6+ mobs around you, you get lagged up to 3000ms and more.
Its not the PC (i have a decent computer) - i suspect its the amount of packets sent to the (mostly passive) NIC.

Passive nics do render on Main-CPU while server NICs got its own processor for that.
Homecomputers with NICS on the mainboard get flooded by packets, resulting in lag.

[size=3][i](Mobs position updates? Keyword: Interpolated pathing? )[/i][/size]


Still just an assumption...
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Nesshix the Hand wave in fish bowl has 5-10 seconds of lag.

The CL54 Minions use an environment shield which I think might be the cause. May be there is a way that the minions can still use feedback damage but without the graphic effect of the environment shield? If I use CTRL-mouse to rotate the screen view so that none of the minions are visible the lag disappears. Not really practical for combat characters.

The posters above are talking about lag caused by something else I suspect.

But I still post anyway in the hope the minions might get looked at.

Giant sized environment shields probably hard for client to draw.
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[quote name='Lot' timestamp='1329223627' post='53711']
The posters above are talking about lag caused by something else I suspect.
[/quote]

Not really.

You will not see a connection at first..but it is directly connected since a network-packet-flooded CPU is simply not leaving enough ressource to the DX Render system ;)
There is DX stuff rendered on the GPU (hardware support) and stuff rendered on the Main-CPU.

Thats why a flood of network packets can/will affect the DX-graphic - tho it seems to be not connected - but it is.
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[quote name='Toaster' timestamp='1329196305' post='53687']
Lag has gotten worse over the past few weeks when fighting large groups of mobs. The way I usually do it is with my PW and a TT in tow. I can gather up groups of say 5-6 fish in Cooper without any problems, but when the group of mobs grows to 15-20 things start going downhill fast. It's usually ok for a few minutes when the mob count is growing. After a few activations of group sapping sphere and Shield Nova it starts to get progressively worse. The problem seems to be exacerbated when the ten-gu start to engage Rally and the animation is being displayed across 10-20 mobs.

It's a very odd sort of lag too. My PW will get bogged down to the point where my guns stop shooting and skills don't activate. If I engage warp my ship will go through the animations but remain stationary. If I swap to my TT's account though she is fine, she can use her skills and heal my PW all day long while the fight continues. The only way to get out of this situation alive is for my PW to fly away from the area at full impulse while my TT heals him.

I thought that it might have been an issue with the PC I was using when I first encountered this issue. My main gaming PC was down for repair and I was using my fileserver to play. I tested this issue again when my gaming rig was back on it's feet with the same results. My main gaming rig is a watercooled i7-2600k with 16GB's of ram and 3 580GTX graphics cards. Since the issue is not machine specific and it doesn't seem to effect the other 2-3 accounts running on my PC it leads me to believe that it has to do with the way the server is communicating data to my PW during these massive fights. There has to be a major bottleneck somewhere.

I hope the description of my problem helped in some way :)

Edit: Forgot to mention that this is occuring near the Observation navs around the Tada-O gate.
[/quote]

This is a much better decription than I gave in my post earlier, but what you had going on here, IDENTICAL to what i get every time I am in cooper or the other day in Nif. It starts out ok, then whoever the mobs are actually aggroing to, just gets annihilated with lag. My guildie was like "your skills are firing, I can see them", but on my side it was like a 10-15 second delay. Eventually they lagged out too as the second wave would come in.

Another time youll notice how bad it actually is, is try targeting a nav for a quick warp escape, just targeting it can take 20 seconds before it comes up. You click it, 20 second later hey there it is on the reticle.
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[quote name='Tienbau' timestamp='1329137891' post='53637']
I have been running tests with 30 mobs with updates switched to max and no lag. I'm running a pretty new PC with a high end graphics card - although I have noticed the game doesn't run very well on the old laptop these days (at least, not as well as it used to) - I overrode the recommended settings which could be it.

Could you let me know exactly which mob groups are causing this for you both please? Location (sector and closest nav), and mob type/s.

ta,

TB
[/quote]

Chavez, venus, ceres 1 & 2, Mist runner/lords Freya, Freya feild 2, and merus milia bombers/fighters ect... near DCO station in ABG

I was accused that this lag was caused by my connection, and I have been experincing and tolerating this between last year of August up until now. It seems everyone is now experincing the same problem. My idea of what could be causing it was either a shading/rendering issue or a polygon collision with the mobs in game with memory leaks when the entites who are hostile getting closer and at the max distance my weapons can fire. I can say it doesn't just lag it could in some cases disconnect your connection or crash ur client if u allow it to continue. I've lost connection without warning also a ctd in glenn when faction farming just because over 15+ mobs wanted to agress me. I probably could handle them, but not when my targeting is seriosuly lagging/freezing up and its not very helpful in these heated conditions. Also this happens when I mine gas clouds, clouds can range from 7-20 in any field and if they are clustered up like crop stalks then it decreases my speed and lags like heck untill i clear the cluster of gases or move away from the heavy loaded motions of the entity's on screen. :P I've also notice that when warping for to long and not docing or rebooting the client, the sprites if that's what makes up most of the effects in game, are begging to duplicate and glitch once more.

Might I suggest to you TB that you go off and test your lil 30+ mobs on a 8400gs or older video card and find the difference? Of course high end video cards well produce great results but the majority of players probably don't have them installed to play enb.
I have great isp, my pc is solid except for video card but if i'm experincing a problem thats global then it must be server side and for this long too.
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Yeah whoever is saying its your PC or connection is a total noob really. Remember this game was originaly intended to run on 2000 and 2001 computers... were talking like 800Mhz/1ghz processors and 128/256 Megs of ram here.

Anyone on a computer made after 2009 has like 10-20 times the system reqs at LEAST, even a crap walmart comp with an integrated graphics card from last year should be able to multibox like 6 accounts at once on a 4 or 6 meg connection no prob.

Heck I remember leading fishbowl raids on teamspeak with a gateway 1.3Ghz Celeron machine and dialup. Edited by Ryle
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Orga: Im using a GTX 240 (fairly decent performance video card from 2 years ago) and i lag just as bad as anyone else. Its not the video settings. The only people that would suffer terribly are ones with comps from like 2000 or earlier.

I mean we have guys in here with i7 processors and GTX580s saying they are lagging. That tells you something.

My surmise is its just old semi incompatible code and serverside setups that just arent working efficiently. Im sure the devs are doing their best, knowing its a reverse engineering and recoding nightmate. TBH tho, the devil is in the details, theres probably some little thing here or there thats causing the whole mess, packet flooding that doesnt need to be happening, etc. Im sure Tien or someone else will find it if we keep digging up symptoms.

Like I said, EnB live was fully runnable and enjoyable on machines that today I wouldnt even give to my kids for word processing. Edited by Ryle
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it's weird because I can't repro the lag even at the locations you mention, even with all mobs shooting at me spamming skills etc.

The problem clearly isn't as simple as the packets flooding the CPU, otherwise we'd all be seeing lag in the same places, under the same conditions.

As an experiment, when you next get the lag could you ctrl+I, then click on the bar at the top, and let me know the rough value for the data rate. At the Vindis Shipyard while being attacked mine rose to around 4,500 - way above the safe limit.

Could you also check the task manager to see if the client is hogging abnormally large amounts of memory?

It could also be a matter of how long the client has been running too - try relogging and see if it is any faster. I would like to get to the bottom of this ASAP.
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Baseline FPS in F7: Hovers around 180
Baseline Network bar in F7: 100/Green... Vol: 150-200

So I am leaving F7 and just gated to Slayton, wow on the gate exit I control I click and my DR is 6700 for about 5 seconds as I enter the sector. Now its back to 200

Yes I just realized I took the wrong gate to get to Nif like a boss. Derp @ me thinking Nif was Via GO and not Freya for .3 second.

Turning around...

Gating to akeron: 12000 Data spike, I assume this is normal on gating?

Warping through Akerons: 1500 - 2000 solid.

Gate to Freya: 8000, then drops to base of 20-40 sitting still, then warping at like 300ish

Gating to Nif: (as i got to the gate to nif in freya, just as i passed the naglfars the DR hovered 1200 and stayed there) 6000, dropped to 120 after gating sequence ended.

Ok Im buffed and heading to the shipyard.

[img]http://i41.tinypic.com/jztw08.jpg[/img]

Warping past the planet this is weird, DR is steadily increasing, it was 300, now its 1100, still going up

400 at the nav, lets fight



In combat, hovering 3000Data/FPS 57 w/ 4 mobs on me

[img]http://i44.tinypic.com/icpr38.jpg[/img]

Ok lets stress it. Going to nav 2 to get the 48s to mass aggro me like the other day

FPS drops to about 40 with 8 mobs on me Vindis/Cucumbers. When not firing my DR is 2800, when Firing my PLs spikes of over 5000 are seen.

[img]http://i39.tinypic.com/zus608.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i42.tinypic.com/30asvfm.jpg[/img]
Posting this, and Ill put some screenies in here in edits. Edited by Ryle
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Id like to point out, this was all in about 10 minutes. I didnt have the time to sit there and let it "build" and get worse. I wasnt having actual "lag" doing this. However, after a while, it just gets worse and worse until the point of im delaying 20 seconds or so. However Tien if transfer rates are spiking 4500-5000+ when you say 2500 is your target, theres gotta be something fundamentally wrong here.

Note for emphasis: DR increases INSANELY when I am actually firing. Like on the order of 2400 not firing to 5500 when I am.


Oh and my memory use in taskmgr was: 135687k not any higher than EnB usually runs for me.

When Ive got more time, ill sit there longer and give some more data. Edited by Ryle
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[quote name='Rezwalker' timestamp='1329190070' post='53683']
[font=Arial]It’s been said before, numerous times, and has fallen on deaf ears, but I feel compelled to open my big mouth and say it again, MOB SCAN and MASS AGRO is creating the heavy data loads, and now with all the mob skill spams has made it worse.[/font]t]t]t]t]t]t]t]t]t]t]t]t]t]

Rez over and out........
[/quote]

I'm with Rez on this one I blame the AI's scripting, hell the mob may not even see me but if it's argo my volume data builds and then STICKS without dropping or bottlenecks w/e u want to call the process.So u get old data added on top of new data and overloads my client and possible my cpu at best. Then Causes my client to malfunctioned and crash or /quite no other way it's like a lag gravity well, sucks you in and u can't get out without resetting connection to your server. lol I have logged off and back on in same spot same mobs from reboot attack me again i never argoed them but it's in the scripts i suppose to atk me where ever i'm located LMAO in the sector. Anyway needless to say, i logged in that gravity lag well and the VD spiked instantly from 2-3k within 10 secs of logging in not 10mins. I'm not exaggerating the readings if the readings are correct then latency had nothing to do with this test run.

I was wondering if the network status needs to be updated, because the readings may not be as accurate as predicted?

Also i notice a few volume data spikes when engaging in warp usual near bigger objects but those slowly die off not stick like in combat. The mining I'm trying to figure out that one not as bad it probably builds but when i scan mutliple navs with Ctrl +D in the sector then i get a instant spike in volume data that starts to build then slowly dies down. Well if ur using ctrl + d to mine lots of targets then that would make sense.
So here's my pics I hope they hep. Anything below 1k VD is safe anything above is BAD.
[img]http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc166/Thanatos_015/Earth%20and%20Beyond/567fa8dd.jpg[/img]g]g]G]

[img]http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc166/Thanatos_015/Earth%20and%20Beyond/5116da82.jpg[/img]g]g]G]

[img]http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc166/Thanatos_015/Earth%20and%20Beyond/9aa70613.jpg[/img]g]g]G]

[img]http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc166/Thanatos_015/Earth%20and%20Beyond/5ee7700d.jpg[/img]g]g]
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