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Terran Scout Feedback Request


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[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1335637608' post='57143']

I do agree that they should have some type of skill for hiding or avoiding conflict, and said skill should be a L7 skill whose effectiveness is somewhere between Cloak and Powerdown. (I think it should be called Illusion and be raised by EL not CL)

[/quote]

I like the Illusion idea Terrell, maybe an iilusion of an asteroid, something like the PS has for powerdown only a different graphic. All the explorer classes should have a "hide" skill, JE= Cloak, PS= Powerdown, Scout= ???
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[quote name='Klyde' timestamp='1335736665' post='57180']
I like the Illusion idea Terrell, maybe an iilusion of an asteroid, something like the PS has for powerdown only a different graphic. All the explorer classes should have a "hide" skill, JE= Cloak, PS= Powerdown, Scout= ???
[/quote]

I like that idea.
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Illusion is one of the unused skills in the original game docs, not really described though, so how it would be implemented exactly would be up for the devs to decide. Could be a L7 skill on ELs in lieu of hacking, or could be a L1 skill at OL135. I think it would be better as a L7 skill, since both the PE and JE get L7 "hide" skills.

It's kind of hard to see, but it's above JW Trainer information, Charm, and Stun.

[img]http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/Terrell_072/skills.png[/img]
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I myself say "Ditch hack, and develop illusion in it's place for Scouts". Hacking on a scout is almost fully useless. On my TE it makes sense and gets use, but on the TS it is just a SP sink. However if they were to give this exploration class it's missing stealth skill in place of hack, it would make a whole lot of sense.
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Lots of upcoming changes RE: skills, but you're gonna have to wait and see. I'll say no more, dev perogative for now. Also yes, I did say something about Scout equipment, expect that too but I don't want to develop it too far until I finalize the skill set among other things.
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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1335835040' post='57235']..Also yes, I did say something about Scout equipment, expect that too but I don't want to develop it too far until I finalize the skill set among other things.
[/quote]

All I have to say to this is WOOT WOOT! Take your time though I am willing to wait for the gear if it means it works right.
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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1335835040' post='57235']
Lots of upcoming changes RE: skills, but you're gonna have to wait and see. I'll say no more, dev perogative for now. Also yes, I did say something about Scout equipment, expect that too but I don't want to develop it too far until I finalize the skill set among other things.
[/quote]

Makes sense, I'd imagine Kenu would say something similar for the JT and her gear/skills. Thanks for commenting. Also, agree with what Riz said.
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  • 2 weeks later...
I would recommend altering nullfactor, at max level, to remove the grav well part (since Navigate already covers grav wells) and give the nullfactor field a defense buff. Reducing incoming damage, especially to tanks, would be a great effect. The JE gets this but unless the JE is way over level 150 most don't max out Environmental Shield. Now if both the Enviro Shield and Null factor worked together then this would be great. The big question for me would be being able to cast null factor on players outside the group, the way a JE can with Env Shield.

Note 1) I see zero reason to buff the Scout much more or to change/remove their skills. They should not have a reduced sig (Terrans have a sig based on the engine they use. If they want it smaller then use the appropriate engine). With their speed and ML range a well played scout should have little problem minining. Sure they may not do it as well as a JE, due to reactor limitations, or be able to hide amongst mobs, like a PS can, but thats the whole point. The TS needs to be played like a terran.....not like an over buffed combo of the PS/JE.

Note 2) Removing Hull Path would be very very bad. Especially since gear is not yet taking structural damage when mobs get into a player's hull. Having an extra HP player can be the difference in tough fights (not just raids). Also leave hacking alone. ATM it's not that useful but higher level ship mobs, that can do massive damage the way that bogeril captains/generals could in Live, made hacking critical for success. If anything maybe add more mobe ships that if they are not hacked will kick player's asses. Thats the best way to encourage players use the skill imo.

Note 3) in Live the Devs mentioned a skill for the scout that was like a single point WH. Where you could set a point and then port to it. Since both the PS and JE both have a single point skill at 135 (Call Forward for PS and Compulsory Contemplation for JE) I could see this skill being very helpful for the TS. Especially if it only worked for the TS and allowed them to port to the gate of the system they 'placed a dimensional rift beacon' in. You could have a really interesting storyline dealing with the ancients, TS's exploring new tech, and the rifts in VG and Xipe.
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[quote name='Kenu' timestamp='1327969822' post='52768']
or I could just stalk this topic from afar...

and the JS primarily needs an attack skill to make combat more interesting
and maybe change reactor optimization to actually be worth it at the lower levels.
some equipment primarily for the JS is in development
I also plan on switching out projectile weapon skill for missile weapon skill because I feel it would be more useful/I want to make a jenquai missile launcher that isn't awful
[/quote]

Yea ! I'll get right on that :P

[quote name='Terrell' timestamp='1335637608' post='57143']
I do agree that they should have some type of skill for hiding or avoiding conflict, and said skill should be a L7 skill whose effectiveness is somewhere between Cloak and Powerdown. (I think it should be called Illusion and be raised by EL not CL)
[/quote]

"Chameleon" Is That an Asteroid or a Terran Scout.
Weapons Optimization/Specialization for the TS.
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Scout:

I like the TS, but it is lacking end game...it is out dps'd by most other classes and can bring only a little to the raid table. I like the current skill set, but hacking is not very useful in raids/groups when a TE is present.

Making afterburn more usefull would be great. Perhaps increase group speed more and offering a better warp engage and cool down. Whatever skills are added, they need to be added carefully, we do not want to make other classes less viable, only make it worth having a TS on a raid.

As a support class, I am in favor of a buff/debuff or crowd control ability...crowd control is already taken by the PS and PP(not counting jenquai foldspace and summon)...so that leaves buffs/debuffs. The obvious choices would be a small buff that is too usefull to ignore...something terran in nature...since the TE has a groupwide attack/defense buff, and the TT is set heavy for healing, why not add a group wide buff that increases heal amount or shield capacity? By a small amount of course(5% maybe?)...just enough when coupled with faster warp times and much faster speed would make them wanted in the tank group of a raid. The other option would be a debuff...small enough not to ruin balance, large enough to make them usefull...perhaps a short duration debuff that when used will lower the mobs damage output, or decrease the mobs damage resists by 20 points to all damage.



Seeker:

I like the seeker, but I never play one...because they are just so useless...and looking over server stats, everyone else agrees. They need more...of something...anything. Reactor optimisation is great, but it doesn't seem to be enough to reserve them a place in a raid. The idea of allowing them to use missles is great...either that or allow them a device at lower levels that increases projectile range so one of their few weapons slots isn't taken by a beam weapon just to allow them the range to be able to join a progen reverse kiting group.

Perhaps a damage skill would be great, crit targeting 3 or 4 would be great, but would be too much to ask for. Maybe giving them a debuff of some kind would be nice, but what I think would be much better would be not worrying about outgoing DPS as much as the ability to deal with incomming DPS. My suggestion? A spike damage ward.

Give the JS Psi shield back...but a modified version. A short cast (roughly 1 to 2.5 second cast time) low capacity psi shield, able to absorb a couple of hits from a level appropriate mob. All of the shield recharges are a very long cast time, and no way to deal with spike damage other than big PW's with hull damage control, making JD's and often TE's a poor choice for tanking...and when dealing with lower geared players, a group can turn into a nightmare when no one has decent shields because of the long cast times...this skill would start out as a single target psi shield with half the hit points of a normal JD psi shield, and could eventually turn into a group psi shield at lvl 7. It would stack with the JD's psi shield(we don't want to make JD's less useful), and would expire a few seconds after cast...it would stay up long enough for the Seeker to cast a single target or group heal, so maybe a 5 to 15 second duration, and just enough hit points to perhaps keep someone alive while casting that heal.

More DPS on the seeker is fine, but I think a quick cast, very short duration psi ward would be far more usefull, and would be powerful enough to make them worth taking on a raid, but due to their being low DPS and squishy, they would not be a replacement for a PP, and without hullpatch TT's would still be the meat and potatos healer.


In summary, a debuff or buff for the Scout(as well as a slightly better afterburn), and a short term small type of psionic ward for the Seeker!
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Rather than a hide skill, I'd like to see the TS get a 'Launch Decoy' skill - call it illusion, if you need to. Being able to launch a decoy that would take aggro for some period and lead enemies off in another direction would be useful in groups, as well as helping the scout when it got into trouble. The group utility would make it better than a straight hide skill.
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A hide skill would be fine...what would seal the deal for me is too see the scout loose hack and gain a debuff and some sort of evasion skill(or to make afterburn a bit faster or allow afterburn to be used with nullfactor field). Perhaps instead of the ability to create a decoy or hide, they could get a skill besides afterburn that actually worked like afterburners on a jet engine, and would allow them to thrust away instantly at very high speeds for a few seconds to escape danger.

I really do not see a need for more DPS on a TS...they do more damage than they were intended to, they are just behind a PS(as they should be). What scouts really need is just a little bit more of a group speed buff and an offensive debuff(or defensive group buff) to make them worth having in a group. Some sort of a hide skill is great, but don't expect that to help you find a group. Being able to make your teammates fly a bit faster than the current afterburn allows for, and being able to hull patch as well as give them a good buff, or perhaps strip an enemy mobs resistance to all damage types would suddenly make you able to pull your own weight.
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  • 3 weeks later...
[quote name='Reon' timestamp='1337308997' post='58046']

My suggestion? A spike damage ward.

Give the JS Psi shield back...but a modified version. A short cast (roughly 1 to 2.5 second cast time) low capacity psi shield, able to absorb a couple of hits from a level appropriate mob. All of the shield recharges are a very long cast time, and no way to deal with spike damage other than big PW's with hull damage control, making JD's and often TE's a poor choice for tanking...and when dealing with lower geared players, a group can turn into a nightmare when no one has decent shields because of the long cast times...this skill would start out as a single target psi shield with half the hit points of a normal JD psi shield, and could eventually turn into a group psi shield at lvl 7. It would stack with the JD's psi shield(we don't want to make JD's less useful), and would expire a few seconds after cast...it would stay up long enough for the Seeker to cast a single target or group heal, so maybe a 5 to 15 second duration, and just enough hit points to perhaps keep someone alive while casting that heal.
[/quote]

Why not add somekind of healing bonus to shielded targets, like for example heals give an extra 25% shield back.


Re: the DPS on the JS i think that it needs a boost of some sort. I haven´t tested anything but im pretty sure a JE would out DPS a JS when using her shield leech skill. This doesn´t seem to compute with the Warrior --> Trader --> Explorer DPS chart.


Just some thoughts while reading here on this thread.

//Mini

[img]http://sigs.net-7.org/user/Minije_small_sig.png[/img]
[img]http://sigs.net-7.org/user/Minipw_small_sig.png[/img]
[img]http://sigs.net-7.org/user/Minijs_small_sig.png[/img]
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[quote name='Reon' timestamp='1337308997' post='58046']
Seeker:

I like the seeker, but I never play one...because they are just so useless...and looking over server stats, everyone else agrees. They need more...of something...anything. Reactor optimisation is great, but it doesn't seem to be enough to reserve them a place in a raid. The idea of allowing them to use missles is great...either that or allow them a device at lower levels that increases projectile range so one of their few weapons slots isn't taken by a beam weapon just to allow them the range to be able to join a progen reverse kiting group.

Perhaps a damage skill would be great, crit targeting 3 or 4 would be great, but would be too much to ask for. Maybe giving them a debuff of some kind would be nice, but what I think would be much better would be not worrying about outgoing DPS as much as the ability to deal with incomming DPS. My suggestion? A spike damage ward.

Give the JS Psi shield back...but a modified version. A short cast (roughly 1 to 2.5 second cast time) low capacity psi shield, able to absorb a couple of hits from a level appropriate mob. All of the shield recharges are a very long cast time, and no way to deal with spike damage other than big PW's with hull damage control, making JD's and often TE's a poor choice for tanking...and when dealing with lower geared players, a group can turn into a nightmare when no one has decent shields because of the long cast times...this skill would start out as a single target psi shield with half the hit points of a normal JD psi shield, and could eventually turn into a group psi shield at lvl 7. It would stack with the JD's psi shield(we don't want to make JD's less useful), and would expire a few seconds after cast...it would stay up long enough for the Seeker to cast a single target or group heal, so maybe a 5 to 15 second duration, and just enough hit points to perhaps keep someone alive while casting that heal.

More DPS on the seeker is fine, but I think a quick cast, very short duration psi ward would be far more usefull, and would be powerful enough to make them worth taking on a raid, but due to their being low DPS and squishy, they would not be a replacement for a PP, and without hullpatch TT's would still be the meat and potatos healer.


In summary, a debuff or buff for the Scout(as well as a slightly better afterburn), and a short term small type of psionic ward for the Seeker!
[/quote]

Not to hijack the thread, but I agree about the JS. I would trade Fold Space in a heartbeat for something more directly useful to a group. It's a trader, its best role in combat should be in a group, but right now it's best soloing as an overgunned JE due to Combat Cloak.

Matter of fact, I would trade Combat Cloak for something really useful to a group, like hull patch. The TT is a better crafter and has crowd control too, so equalizing the raw fixit power between the two classes would not make them equals in every respect. And it would be worth giving up a soloing combat ability to me..
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I like the sound of the decoy probe ability. The Scout could scoot in, launch a distracting probe, mine an asteroid and then zoom away. To me that sounds sneakish, but very different than cloaking. Or maybe an ability based around Hacking that would confuse all enemy sensors in a radius. That way they aren't cloaking, but enemies are still unable to detect the Scout. That seems very Terran from what I have seen so far.

I have to add the caveat to my post that I have just started playing (I hadn't played since E&B beta) and I am only level 10. =]
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[quote name='quzbuk' timestamp='1340289170' post='59333']
I like the sound of the decoy probe ability. The Scout could scoot in, launch a distracting probe, mine an asteroid and then zoom away.
[/quote]

[quote name='quzbuk' timestamp='1340289170' post='59333']
That seems very Terran from what I have seen so far.
[/quote]

Sounds like a lot of potential probe action going on.

Decoy Probe:
Level 1) Send out Probe!
Level 2) Send out Bigger, Stronger, More Wow Probe!
Level 3) Allows Probe to generate lubrication field for Added Goodness (effects may vary!)
Level 4) Allows Probe to cloak and and use lube field (there is no avoiding it now!)
Level 5) "OMG, THAT IS TOO MUCH PROBE!"
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[quote name='Canman' timestamp='1341238606' post='60004']
How about an activated hull damage controll. TT's have act. sheild and JS have reactor so I think HDC is good for TS.
[/quote]

Interesting idea
+1
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