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We approached them last only about 2 months ago, and they basically told us what amounted to "we can't find it." in reference to the source of the client. I'm sure that wasn't entirely true, but I don't think they care to sell it regardless.

lol.
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[quote name='Zathman' timestamp='1327679480' post='52509']
How long ago was this? Maybe the price has gone down :P Also, it's a shame that the banks saw a startup out of college as a risky investment when they so often prove to be quality investments... Sometimes. ;-)
[/quote]

It was four or five years ago. Back when we asked, the emulator work was "oh look you can log in and not make a character" and everything was being done in Java which, well, the idea of a java server kinda irked me. Maybe that was a different project though, I don't know. It was so long ago.

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1327713677' post='52548']
We approached them last only about 2 months ago, and they basically told us what amounted to "we can't find it." in reference to the source of the client. I'm sure that wasn't entirely true, but I don't think they care to sell it regardless.

lol.
[/quote]

I'm inclined to believe them. Normally you'd have this stuff buried on SVN and whatnot. But EA has changed management a number of times since. What's more, they're the kind of company that once they kill something, they freaking bury it. They also would rather recycle old hardware than buy new hardware. So I wouldn't doubt if somebody went "hey, the version control server's running out of space" and in the middle of trying to request more space, somebody declared EnB to be dead weight and ordered it deleted.

I wouldn't doubt, however, if some actual old Westwood dev still has the source on a harddrive at home. But he'd need to get permission to leak it, which isn't likely to happen.

(edit)
Heck, Star Wars Galaxies went NGE and they lost like 95% of their subscriber base overnight. SOE paniced, and well, internally anyway, somebody ordered the game to be put back the way it was. They couldn't find the source for the old game... at all... apparently they weren't even using proper version control... can you freaking believe that? Edited by Mouse
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Eh true enough, I was one of SWG's subscribers. Though one of the 5% that didn't leave immediately when they described the NGE the premise sounded cool, it was the execution when the game became WOW. That's what most people said it was simply now wow and they didn't understand why people basically said "Well, I'll just go play wow."

and yeah, prolly right, I just in general don't trust EA like that because of what they did to EnB back when they did. :)
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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1327761550' post='52592']
Eh true enough, I was one of SWG's subscribers. Though one of the 5% that didn't leave immediately when they described the NGE the premise sounded cool, it was the execution when the game became WOW. That's what most people said it was simply now wow and they didn't understand why people basically said "Well, I'll just go play wow."

and yeah, prolly right, I just in general don't trust EA like that because of what they did to EnB back when they did. :)
[/quote]
I lasted a month :P with NGE. Played from the first real patch after launch (it was just too broken to play imo for a few months) until a month after NGE which we had three people left out of 40 in our PA (MBH all the way, baby!). Though almost half had already left after CU. Yeah some people went to play wow, but the big draw was EVE making release. Would make sense, wouldn't it? EVE was growing, a space sim sort of like JTLS, though still a bit basic back then as I played for a bit, and buggy. Also had centric pvp like the GCW, and of course sci-fi theme without elves lol. I've had a lot of responses talking about SWG at the EVE community, people that left for EVE after NGE. Although I've never heard of SOE/LA talking about putting pre-nge back up apart from people demanding it, hopeful people, but even last year with it's closure it was said they were still standing behind their decision of releasing NGE the way they did. The morning I woke up to finding all my faction bases gone, game over.

EA does destroy source, or at least the studios connected to them have. UO2 was destroyed, Garriot made a big deal of the destruction of it, a good old camp fire party, burning the source. If UO2 and EnB still survive, probably only their lawyers would know, stuffed in the IP vault at some lawyers office. Lost Ark. Edited by StarbuckJD
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I went looking for the news article where someone high up in the SWG dev team was saying "sorry, we lost the pre-nge source code" but I couldn't find it. I'll keep looking but I've already spent half an hour on it. It was kind of a passing comment I read on an article discussing NGE a number of years ago. The guy was saying something to the effect of (and this is not verbatim, just the gist of it as I remember) "We lost 95% of our player base over night, we wanted to put it back the way it was but we'd somehow lost the source code to how it used to be. Thankfully, our subscription numbers have started to recover." This was also way before TOR was ever announced. My memory may be shoddy on the subject, though.
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I was basing the "we don't regret it" thing from a CEO interview (or former) posted at Massively. The basics is yahdah yahdah we had planned it from the start of development and we don't regret the implementation of it. When I found my bases gone, I as many turned to the forums (hardly ever went there) and... well it was at least the best representation of how never to PR your playerbase lol. I followed the dispute for years, though stayed away from my sub apart from logging in one day after the recent SOE debacle and global reactivation campaign. heh is was as dead as dead could be on my old server, like 10 things in auction.

Some old fun stuff from the fun filled days of the fun-fun NGE:
[img]http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/l33tace/swgbarny.jpg[/img]




ANyway, as far as TM's, C's, IP's and acquisitions, probably a job for a lawyer to contact them. Otherwise I don’t think they would respond to anything else other than to a lawyer which would more likely remain confidential for their liking. Just a guess. Edited by StarbuckJD
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[quote name='StarbuckJD' timestamp='1327778150' post='52598']
EA does destroy source, or at least the studios connected to them have. UO2 was destroyed, Garriot made a big deal of the destruction of it, a good old camp fire party, burning the source. If UO2 and EnB still survive, probably only their lawyers would know, stuffed in the IP vault at some lawyers office. Lost Ark.
[/quote]

To be fair, Richard Garriott (I met him through some friends) is a bit crazy. He built a castle with an escape route and several secret passages FFS. ;)
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Manor"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Manor[/url]

[quote name='Mouse' timestamp='1327787423' post='52610']
I went looking for the news article where someone high up in the SWG dev team was saying "sorry, we lost the pre-nge source code" but I couldn't find it. I'll keep looking but I've already spent half an hour on it. It was kind of a passing comment I read on an article discussing NGE a number of years ago. The guy was saying something to the effect of (and this is not verbatim, just the gist of it as I remember) "We lost 95% of our player base over night, we wanted to put it back the way it was but we'd somehow lost the source code to how it used to be. Thankfully, our subscription numbers have started to recover." This was also way before TOR was ever announced. My memory may be shoddy on the subject, though.
[/quote]

I'd like to see it if you do find it.

[quote name='StarbuckJD' timestamp='1327789629' post='52614']
I was basing the "we don't regret it" thing from a CEO interview (or former) posted at Massively. The basics is yahdah yahdah we had planned it from the start of development and we don't regret the implementation of it.
[/quote]

You're referring to Smedley. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Smedley_(developer)"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Smedley_(developer)[/url]

He is president of SOE, and he basically was the one to make the decision to wow-ify the game. It was not part of it from launch, I talked to a developer one night on Mustafar after it released and I expressed my concern of turning it into wow and how it was going to drive people away. He was there looking at a problem and I ran into him. (I had a lot of friends in the GM Team there because I used to camp their chat rooms and help corral the whine fests that came through when the servers would be down, I was known as "Sithlord2010" there.) He (that developer) asked me not to mention him by name so I won't but he also shared the same reservations against it but was one of the rank & file folks, everyone knows how that goes. ;)
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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1327794465' post='52619']
To be fair, Richard Garriott (I met him through some friends) is a bit crazy. He built a castle with an escape route and several secret passages FFS. ;) [/quote] Yep, know about the castle, though never looked for pics or anyting like that. Not too crazy as far as building castles, I live in SoCal wine country, we have a number of castles here lol ...wellll it's California after all ;) Ftuits + Nuts etc.. heh ...but we have world class wine :)

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1327794465' post='52619']
You're referring to Smedley. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Smedley_(developer)"]http://en.wikipedia....ley_(developer)[/url]

He is president of SOE, and he basically was the one to make the decision to wow-ify the game. It was not part of it from launch, I talked to a developer one night on Mustafar after it released and I expressed my concern of turning it into wow and how it was going to drive people away. He was there looking at a problem and I ran into him. (I had a lot of friends in the GM Team there because I used to camp their chat rooms and help corral the whine fests that came through when the servers would be down, I was known as "Sithlord2010" there.) He (that developer) asked me not to mention him by name so I won't but he also shared the same reservations against it but was one of the rank & file folks, everyone knows how that goes. ;)
[/quote]Might have been Smedley, most likely. I just retained the talking points from it. And his comment that it was by design from the beginning, just implemented at NGE. I'm sure, whether or not he was talking on the level, it had more to do with "what?!? we didn't do anything wrong!" attitude. After all, the big move, explained in forums at the time of NGE release, was lure in new players. lol people were like "what about us... ?". Debacle. If I can find those quotes, or have time to look, it'd be nice for a re-read at ay rate, fill my tires with some hot air.
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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1327761550' post='52592']
Eh true enough, I was one of SWG's subscribers. Though one of the 5% that didn't leave immediately when they described the NGE the premise sounded cool, it was the execution when the game became WOW. That's what most people said it was simply now wow and they didn't understand why people basically said "Well, I'll just go play wow."

and yeah, prolly right, I just in general don't trust EA like that because of what they did to EnB back when they did. :)
[/quote]

And for those of us that stuck it out til the end of SWG three months ago, guess who we were told to go spend our money on.... oh you know EA and SWTOR. Irony at its finest.

EnB/EA => SOE/SWG => SOE/SWGWoWClone => [s]EA/SWTOR[/s] - sums up my gaming career. Well ENBEMU and some other games in there at times.

The circle of life. Edited by Ryle
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[quote name='Mouse' timestamp='1327787423' post='52610']
I went looking for the news article where someone high up in the SWG dev team was saying "sorry, we lost the pre-nge source code" but I couldn't find it. I'll keep looking but I've already spent half an hour on it. It was kind of a passing comment I read on an article discussing NGE a number of years ago. The guy was saying something to the effect of (and this is not verbatim, just the gist of it as I remember) "We lost 95% of our player base over night, we wanted to put it back the way it was but we'd somehow lost the source code to how it used to be. Thankfully, our subscription numbers have started to recover." This was also way before TOR was ever announced. My memory may be shoddy on the subject, though.
[/quote]

I dont have the article but I can back up your story. I was there for this. They literally were told to crash crunch the NGE out, wrote the code over the old systems, never saved the old files, and rereleased as the NGE. The old code is actually still there, IN the NGE code with stuff written over it.


Here was a discussion about it on MMORPG.com, im pretty sure theres a source link SOMEWHERE in here http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/6/view/forums/post/2614157#2614157 Edited by Ryle
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[quote name='StarbuckJD' timestamp='1327699289' post='52537']
Sure, it needs DX9 and such, but no less viable than as for EQ1 running today, though of course that has over a decade of polish and awards for the work they did on the system. EnB didn't shut down because it bombed, but because EA bombed, and then turned their funding to EA Land... which they bombed at. Now of course years have passed, would take some investment to iron out the system, but still a closed source AAA game complete with content, 150k is a giveaway considering. Some of these companies want 500k just to look at their system, with no content, just engine and tool sets. It's only the past couple years that us indies started to get a little luv from them, some price breaks for special licenses that you couldn't even get a quote on before unless you sent them your companies earnings statement for an appointment where they figure out how much they can get out of you. I wouldn’t see Blizzard grabbing it lol, nor small startup indies, but in the middle seems to be a good investment for some company if just 150k.

edit:Anyway it just caught me as odd, talking price I usually hear about doesn’t usually happen until they assess that you are eligible to purchase or license and then it comes to negotiations along with investors and lawyers all with their panties in a jumble. At least that’s how it used to work with negotiating purchases in the game industry apart from the now indie focused companies that are far more informal. EA though… some hardball there. Ever catch some of the public transcripts on video game negotiations/hearings covering their disputes (e.g. such as with Bethesda), it’s enough to make ones head spin. These big companies play for keeps hehe
[/quote]

There are definitely uglier MMO's in the sea

Every person/group that has contacted EA over the years has probably done so in a different way, but the process is the same. EA is a business and the way they run things is very regimented and corporate. If you were to approach EA about buying the game outright, they would assess you BEFORE anything to determine if you're blowing smoke up their ass or legitimately a contender to buy and run an MMORPG.

If you approached EA as an Indie start-up you wouldn't get far and you wouldn't be given a bottom number. There would be an extensive interview about you before they said much at all about them. Just to see if you're capable of actually doing something with the game.

If the $150k was a genuine number, you could bet that's the "I'm a Nobody Game Company" price, if any established companies sought EnB ought it would be a lot more expensive. Keep in mind, all of the companies that fall under this category are EA's competition.

EDIT: Ew, the smiley's aren't working right =/ Edited by Hatu
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[quote name='Hatu' timestamp='1327907369' post='52696']
There are definitely uglier MMO's in the sea

Every person/group that has contacted EA over the years has probably done so in a different way, but the process is the same. EA is a business and the way they run things is very regimented and corporate. If you were to approach EA about buying the game outright, they would assess you BEFORE anything to determine if you're blowing smoke up their ass or legitimately a contender to buy and run an MMORPG.

If you approached EA as an Indie start-up you wouldn't get far and you wouldn't be given a bottom number. There would be an extensive interview about you before they said much at all about them. Just to see if you're capable of actually doing something with the game.

If the $150k was a genuine number, you could bet that's the "I'm a Nobody Game Company" price, if any established companies sought EnB ought it would be a lot more expensive. Keep in mind, all of the companies that fall under this category are EA's competition.

EDIT: Ew, the smiley's aren't working right =/
[/quote]Pretty much sums up what I've said in this thread :)
Of course this is EA, not really a game engine company that gives quotes, and if they gave any quote, whoever was doing it must have been hitting the sauce :blink: which in that case is possible, for a laugh on someone elses expense (that sounds like EA at least) :) Edited by StarbuckJD
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[quote name='StarbuckJD' timestamp='1327945143' post='52721']
Pretty much sums up what I've said in this thread :)
Of course this is EA, not really a game engine company that gives quotes, and if they gave any quote, whoever was doing it must have been hitting the sauce :blink: which in that case is possible, for a laugh on someone elses expense (that sounds like EA at least) :)
[/quote]

Well, at the end of it all, 150k is the number we were given. We didn't have that much though. They may have just been taunting us with the figure knowing we wouldn't be able to bring it to the table. Thing is, I wasn't a part of the negotiations, so I just know what I was told by our COO who was doing the negotiations. I'm honestly surprised he got as far as he did.
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