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Why I Think We Need A Player Wipe.

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Combat 48 59.35 %
Explore / trade 100%

after missions lvl 135 red dragon
combat % 61.35
combat 400? / 625
explore 1000
trade1250
the numbers come fast so I could be off but 2 points in combat for a lvl 135 kill misssion suxz~!
And don't even think of grouping~!~!~!

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[quote name='Crichton' timestamp='1331338696' post='55246']
The trade and explore xp is rolled over to your non 50 skill. There is some loss (think its around 20% now which just disappears) but the rest will go directly to your CL. If its not doing this bug it.
[/quote]

2 points for a lvl 135 combat??????I will never max at that rate~!
59.35 % to 61.35%~?~? each mission???

or am I just crying? So I started new toons...I like leveling new toons...LOLOLOLOL

[quote name='Crichton' timestamp='1331338696' post='55246']
The trade and explore xp is rolled over to your non 50 skill. There is some loss (think its around 20% now which just disappears) but the rest will go directly to your CL. If its not doing this bug it.
[/quote]
SEEMs like it is a hell of lot more then 20%....

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turefully don't think anything should go to skills you have arleady maxed...anyone esle think that way??

At lvl 48 combat (65.35%) and doing lvl 135 missions it will take 117 misions to get to lvl 50. of course that will change with lvls but for a rough draft...117 missions SUXZ~!~!

but I am drinking and I may be just bitching but still....

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A combat job gives primarily combat xp and some explore xp.
A trade job gives primarily trade xp and some explore xp.
A explore job gives primarily explore and some trade xp.

When a bar gets to 50 the excess xp in that bar "spills over", the xp you earn is halved (50%) and then spills equally between any bars not at 50 yet.

So if you are doing combat jobs, you are getting your full combat xp and then if your explore bar is 50 then that amount is being halved (50%) and then divided between combat bar and trade bar if not 50.

Example:: you do a combat job for 7k xp not all the xp is combat but some is explore, lets say for ease of calculation 5k combat and 2k explore=7k xp

So what happens if explore bar is 50, you get 5k combat and the 2k explore is halved so 500 goes to combat = 5.5k combat xp and 500 trade, if trade was also 50 then then you would get that to combat also so a full 6k combat xp.

What you may be experiencing however is the OL job xp "adjustment" sometime in the recent past they changed it (to the disadvantage to non-combat types) that combat jobs take into account your OL and if you are doing jobs below your ability you get vastly reduced combat xp, this isn't true for explore/trade jobs.

So if you had access to L150 jobs, but becuase of your CL chose to do L135 instead, a combat job would net you vastly reduced combat xp. To get your full combat xp you have to do the highest level of job you have access to.

*edit there was talk of if it should be 50% reduction or 80% (since both were used in live) it may have been set to 80% since last I did a job, watch the green scoll and see if its 50% or 80% and you will know for sure.

*lol reedit, 50% or 20%...not 80% reduction 20%, thus a 50% spillage or a 80% spillage is what I meant. Edited by Mattsacre

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I didn't 'choose' to do lvl 135 lvl jobs...150 lvl I can't do my self and grouping even suxz more~!~!....yup lvl 150 jobs give me cl50 mobs which kill me fast...so I 'choose" lvl 135 jobs.

back to my young terrans.....

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[quote name='Ryle' timestamp='1331276232' post='55199']
TBH there isnt much leveling content beyond agrippa and home sector stuff out there besides the repetitive HU30s everyone hates.

Its just the same thing, groundhog day, over and over. Jobs, traderuns, shooting the same mobs a billion times. Maybe if it didnt take 5 hours to level from say CL 45 to CL 46, it wouldnt be so bad. But once someone gets to level 100 or so, leveling is just the kinda PITA i dont want to invest all my time for. Its a grind, a ridiculous horrible grind, and frankly being resubjected to it for NO REASON other than someone being bored of their 150s, pisses me off.
[/quote]

Hi there,

I've been eyeballing this thread now since it has reawakened. I've told you guys it will eventually have to happen one more time (barring technical requirements for it). That being said: Just because there wasn't the last time doesn't mean still isn't. This is something you guys have to grasp, also, just because you don't see it doesn't mean its not there. We haven't revealed everything, which the next time we do it, we will be revealing.

As for the XP curve, it is stunted, you should actually be taking LONGER to level than you are now based on the original documentation, so be careful what you wish for when you consider the current period as 'long'.

If and when we subject you to it, we will have reasons to further the development of this game, if you don't accept that you'll have to wait til release because we won't wipe after that point.

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[quote name='Mattsacre' timestamp='1331343286' post='55255']
A combat job gives primarily combat xp and some explore xp.
A trade job gives primarily trade xp and some explore xp.
A explore job gives primarily explore and some trade xp.

When a bar gets to 50 the excess xp in that bar "spills over", the xp you earn is halved (50%) and then spills equally between any bars not at 50 yet.

So if you are doing combat jobs, you are getting your full combat xp and then if your explore bar is 50 then that amount is being halved (50%) and then divided between combat bar and trade bar if not 50.

Example:: you do a combat job for 7k xp not all the xp is combat but some is explore, lets say for ease of calculation 5k combat and 2k explore=7k xp

So what happens if explore bar is 50, you get 5k combat and the 2k explore is halved so 500 goes to combat = 5.5k combat xp and 500 trade, if trade was also 50 then then you would get that to combat also so a full 6k combat xp.

What you may be experiencing however is the OL job xp "adjustment" sometime in the recent past they changed it (to the disadvantage to non-combat types) that combat jobs take into account your OL and if you are doing jobs below your ability you get vastly reduced combat xp, this isn't true for explore/trade jobs.

So if you had access to L150 jobs, but becuase of your CL chose to do L135 instead, a combat job would net you vastly reduced combat xp. To get your full combat xp you have to do the highest level of job you have access to.

*edit there was talk of if it should be 50% reduction or 80% (since both were used in live) it may have been set to 80% since last I did a job, watch the green scoll and see if its 50% or 80% and you will know for sure.

*lol reedit, 50% or 20%...not 80% reduction 20%, thus a 50% spillage or a 80% spillage is what I meant.
[/quote]
The 50% loss of xp was way too much (what you mean when you say '2k explore is halved to 500' should be closer to 1600 xp than 500). I though Tien changed it to 20% (which was much closer to Live). I recall posting a bug about this a while back, and Tien's fix made waaay too much xp get transferred, but I will go double check it in a few minutes to see if it has been returned to they 50% loss ( =[ ).

However I really want to know if no explore/trade xp is rolling over into CL for Az when he's doing jobs. It does for CL, Trade and Explore via other xp methods (killing mobs, trading loot, mining, etc). If it is a bug please post in via the Bug Tracker.

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It certainly shouldn't still be 50% he changed that for me a while back so unless an accidental code commit caused it it shouldn't be. Let me know if it is. It should hack off 20% and distribute the remaining 80% 50/50 amongst the other two bars, that is the formula from the live game.

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Every bleedover level I got since I maxed trade and explore (Shea still had 15 CL to go at that time) was 50% dropped and then the remaining amount applied to CL. Edited by Riz of the Bloody Hand

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yeah I got the terms in the equation the wrong way round - it was giving 120% divided between the remaining two not 80%. Has been fixed for a while now. You get 80% spilt between the two now.

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I dunno, been a while since I worked on anything but an overding.

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[quote name='Ryle' timestamp='1331276232' post='55199']
Matt it gets old. I have one 150 toon. Its all I want. The rest are for the "fun of leveling"
I like high end content, I want to be able to play it. TBH there isnt much leveling content beyond agrippa and home sector stuff out there besides the repetitive HU30s everyone hates.

Its just the same thing, groundhog day, over and over. Jobs, traderuns, shooting the same mobs a billion times. Maybe if it didnt take 5 hours to level from say CL 45 to CL 46, it wouldnt be so bad. But once someone gets to level 100 or so, leveling is just the kinda PITA i dont want to invest all my time for. Its a grind, a ridiculous horrible grind, and frankly being resubjected to it for NO REASON other than someone being bored of their 150s, pisses me off.
[/quote]

This seems to me a plea for more mid level content, or an ongoing/dynamic storyline. Still, even with that, going through multiple stress tests could wear you a bit thin.

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[quote name='Crichton' timestamp='1331587284' post='55388']
The 50% loss of xp was way too much (what you mean when you say '2k explore is halved so 500' should be closer to 1600 xp than 500). I though Tien changed it to 20% (which was much closer to Live). I recall posting a bug about this a while back, and Tien's fix made waaay too much xp get trasnferred, but I will go double check it in a few minutes to see if it has been returned to they 50% loss ( =[ ).

However I really want to know if no explore/trade xp is rolling over into CL for Az when he's doing jobs. It does for CL, Trade and Explore via other xp methids (killing mobs, trading loot, mining, etc). If it is a bug please post in via the Bug Tracker.
[/quote]
I misspoke and reedited it, I was meaning either a 50% or a 20% reduction, per posts here they have confirmed its a 20% drop.

Per my example (using 50%) the 2k would split to 1k then spill into 2 bars being 500 to each: 2000/2=1000 1000/2=500
This would bounce 500 back to combat bar from the explore xp gained in a combat job.

So as 80% spillage is in force: 2,000x .20= 400 2,000-400=1,600 1,600/2= 800
This would bounce 800 back to combat bar from the explore portion gained in combat job.

The real problem AZ has run into doing jobs is, he didn't know about the OL check on combat jobs that explore/trade jobs don't experience (because there is no risk inherent to trade/explore jobs like combat, nobody "underjobs"), that being:
If you are high enough to do a L150 job, but choose to do a L135 combat job (becuase you aren't warrior, or real low CL vs. mobs, whatever...) combat jobs check OL and have vastly reduced experience rewarded for "underlvling" jobs.

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Go ahead and wipe as far as I care... I see no point in playing a game where my toons will be wiped cause things for lower levels need tested or cause somethings got into the game ahead of time..

I only came back because there had not been a wipe in so long that I thought that "maybe there wouldnt be another" but I was wrong.

If there is a wipe at each stage I see absolutely no point in playing and working my way up the ladder to only get to start over again as it is a PITA to start over when ever we move to a new stage. I have 0% doubt that wipes are keeping players away and are a cause of the struggle to meet the monthly server costs, let alone build a new server that costs less.

I could go back to any MMO that I have played that is still out there and start up where I left off since E&B. I hate to say forget it as much as I love this game but I really see no point in working my tail off and working up to face another wipe. I have left my login details to guildies so they can have access to my toons and build lists as long as they last.
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[quote name='shadowxsx' timestamp='1331614320' post='55439']
Go ahead and wipe as far as I care... I see no point in playing a game where my toons will be wiped cause things for lower levels need tested or cause somethings got into the game ahead of time..

I only came back because there had not been a wipe in so long that I thought that "maybe there wouldnt be another" but I was wrong.

If there is a wipe at each stage I see absolutely no point in playing and working my way up the ladder to only get to start over again as it is a PITA to start over when ever we move to a new stage. I have 0% doubt that wipes are keeping players away and are a cause of the struggle to meet the monthly server costs, let alone build a new server that costs less.

I could go back to any MMO that I have played that is still out there and start up where I left off since E&B. I hate to say forget it as much as I love this game but I really see no point in working my tail off and working up to face another wipe. I have left my login details to guildies so they can have access to my toons and build lists as long as they last.
[/quote]

Where did you get the idea there would be no additional wipes?

The game is far from being complete (if ever) so another wipe or two is absolutely necessary. Please don't look at this as the end all of this game...we, ALL of us are helping to stress the game with us playing... we get to test, play, report a bug or exploit or three and except for the agrippa missions ;) enjoy our time here.

From what I have read from other threads there is much that has been added in the way of content, waiting to be put into play after the next or even the next wipe. SO imho a wipe is a good thing as we will get better content, a story line *GASP* and more mid to end game content.

Take a break from the game if you must (I am) but keep your eye on the forums. As soon as the next wipe comes there will be more and better content and hopefully a more stable game.


Remember when all we could do was see our beloved ships again? We have come a long way together and still have a way to go.
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+1 that Mimir
My take on it:
I'm facinated about the reaction from folks told there would be a DEFINATE wipe in the future, but that it's not planned ANY TIME SOON, that get all worked up that there is going to be a wipe, but not anytime soon...:)

That it was understood when they sign on to this project, of which they agree when they hit that "agree" button instead of "don't agree", of which they are told what the EMU is about before they go to the trouble to download the client/game, that they are told via the forums that they are: playing/testing/bug reporting a project in development, that they get to play this great game in sort of compensation for their part of the effort for FREE.

They don't have to clock in and put in any hours like a job, they aren't paying for any service, any support/effort they contribute to the bringing back of the game is COMPLETELY voluntary.....

If you can't stand the idea that some arbitrary mark of your effort (i.e. toon level) in the future is going to be erased, that you can't bring yourself to continue in a totally volunteer effort without some brownie badge....well what can I say? Since it's voluntary and not paid work, I guess those in the effort for the long haul got what they paid for in your services :)

I could understand persons say 1 week, or 1 day, or even 1 hour before a p-wipe getting a little regretful and maybe tearful about a loss of a trophy toon, but then guess what..you been through it and can make even a better toon than last time, since you went through it before and avoid the past mistakes you made!

With that being said:
I understand Shadowxsx's feelings, they get discouraged by not having some tangable badge recognizing their part in the effort, and have decided to withdraw until it's in final form, sorry you feel that way and we will miss you, but hope to see you when you decide to return!

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LOL sorry for all the drama ... I just want to hunt fishes~! And with a JD JS JE you need lvl 9 beams. never got much fishing during live so was hoping I could get some before the next>>>>>. at 81.35% on my JD so hopfully tonight I will get lvl 9 Beams~!

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I came back in hope there would be no more wipes but according to dev posts here will be one at each phase.

If you think a wipe is the solution to every issue you are truly wrong. As many EMU projects have failed due to this exact same issue but no one appears to consider the ramification that these wipes will eventually cause.

I love E&B but if I work up the ladder to get top gear then only to have it taken away every few years then there is absolutely no point in playing. I could go play horizons, wow, rappelz (- many of the free MMO games I can of think of but can not remember off hand their names) and start back exactly where I left off Why play where my toons are going to be poof be gone like EA did to us in the first place when ever we have a inflow of new players and old players starting new toons to test content?

But playing a game where wipes are inevitable where we get the shaft is no game to me, just a constant grind fest IMO. I really see no point in continuing progress on my multiple toons when they will be wiped just so us high levels have no true progression other than a restart from scratch


Some may enjoy a fresh start due to being bored but as I have said many times in the past when 200 was the server cap and you could expect to wait before you could even log in vs now. There are tons of players waiting to see "NO MORE WIPES GUARANTEED" and when that happens I may be back but getting wiped makes me and many others say forget it..

I have no issue with guild wipes as Kyp said that DB is hosed and needs done (as I saw BlackLung in my guild one day due to it), I have no issue with the old db being corrupted and a force wipe due to it. Yet wiping cause stuff needs tested for lower levels when there is a constant inflow of new players and returning players is absurd to me.

I may seem a troll to some but even before the DEV team split that resulted in hulk fest I have had many objections to the way things were being done, I was old school back when all anyone could do was log in and impulse speed around (memory fail, the sector that Joves is in). I was a contributor to the current mining system that Tien wrote and had many ideas that are now in game but my words seem to fall on truly deaf ears now as they did back years ago. I left this emu due to DEVs that ARE no longer around (not to mention names) but some seem to want to follow in those epic fail paths.

I am not angry but disappointed, I really want to play but with no continuity with my toons I really see no point in wasting my time. Edited by shadowxsx
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ugh! .. the deadhorse is now chip-seal in the pavement

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lol yeah this thread is a train crash. All we need now is Chief Wiggam 'nothing to see here ... woah wait! there's lots to see here it's great! come on over'.

reading a few odd posts is like reading the entrails of all the funny/crazy rumours that float around on the server.

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[quote name='Dakynos' timestamp='1331609277' post='55437']
This seems to me a plea for more mid level content, or an ongoing/dynamic storyline. Still, even with that, going through multiple stress tests could wear you a bit thin.
[/quote]

It would be absolutely wonderful to have something to do from OL 60-120 that didnt involve jobs or traderuns. Really thats the only part of leveling I despise because it takes forever, and you cant really be of any use in anything high level either.

Under 60 and you can get a level or three every time you log in and play for a couple hours. In that range its like... ok I got half a trade level today, yay me. (i dont have like gobs of time to play very often, sometimes i do, sometimes i dont... but if we had big reward quests like.... something that might take 3 hours to do, but basically dinged ya a level in each slot for the effort, heck... know what im sayin?)

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Don't worry when it happens again there will be plenty of content for you to play with.

as for your comments shadowxsx:

We've not made a secret of this, and this is not our "solution" to a problem but a necessary part of TESTING the systems we have built to ensure they are working to scale. The only way is to remove bad data generated by previous attempts and make sure the data that comes into it is correct. If you've ever been part of an Alpha or a closed Beta test, you would be used to this, its part of the process.

also, you guys don't have it nearly as rough as you think you do, talk to some of the beta testers who've been around here for a while. The ones that still carry the tag. There were days before we opened to the public that we had to wipe more than once in the same day to test a system.

If you're here, you're a tester. If you want to guarantee your characters wait for the day we announce the launch because that'll be the only time thereafter any will be guaranteed.

Not tryin' to be harsh but I've said before, development comes first. If we're ever to reach a release day this is just the way it is.

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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1331767746' post='55527']
If you're here, you're a tester. If you want to guarantee your characters wait for the day we announce the launch because that'll be the only time thereafter any will be guaranteed.
[/quote]

When that day if ever comes this game may be back to presunset and what many of us out there in the registered majority of members of the community are waiting to come back for.

I never said I did not expect a wipe, just disappointed that my work on toons is wasted as there had not been a wipe in a very long time is why I hoped there would be no more. My true fear is by the time the emu is truly ready for no further wipes is that the hardware and OS's of the day will not be able to support this game. If this emu is ready in 10 years then so be it, but if the needed hardware and software is unable to be used there is no point.

This was the first true space MMO games and one of the greatest (In many of our opinions). I want to play and top tier grinding had a point, but no progress guaranteed is a turn off not only myself but many past community members that have said forget it.

Hardware issues in an emu are totally understandable as they are unexpected and forgivable , who knows when a server will be zapped by lighting or another natural force. But Devs saying your work is irrelevant cause we want a wipe is plain ignoring the community that supports you and this project

I speak on the logical point of the majority of community members and past community members. We all love EnB here but wiping on issues other than a db that is totally FUBARED like guilds is not a true following of the game we love IMO.

I have no issue with a selective wipe such as taking out hulk fest items from recipes and equipped items. Yet those of us that put many hours of our life into developing our toons to 150 and seeing those toons go poof is no real game to us. In many of us registered members opinion KYP you are in the wrong and we refuse to waste time playing as you desire to only see our hard work and grinding be worth nothing.
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[quote name="shadowxsx"][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Hardware issues in an emu are totally understandable as they are unexpected and forgivable , who knows when a server will be zapped by lighting or another natural force. But Devs saying your work is irrelevant cause we want a wipe is plain ignoring the community that supports you and this project[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I speak on the logical point of the majority of community members and past community members. We all love EnB here but wiping on issues other than a db that is totally FUBARED like guilds is not a true following of the game we love IMO."[/quote][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I don't think most of the community feels the way you do. Mainly because for every one person that posts like you regarding the loss of your toon(s), four or five others say they understand and support it. We do what is in the best interest in getting the game ready sooner and less of what's in the interest of your characters existing because they don't support that goal any more than as a test. While I can admit it sucks to "lose" the character, you should never have grown attached having known that we have not yet guaranteed no future wipes. We will do as many as necessary to verify the systems work as expected and no less. I don't see a reason to retain character data, they didn't do it in the live beta, so what's the difference here where it isn't even beta? It is not logical to me in that respect.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]There are many systems that still need testing that may require wipes, there is new content that will be in by the next time we wipe that won't get tested unless we do it because many people just insist on playing with their 150. So its simply with that in mind, if we need to do it, we will. There's nothing that's going to sway that, I've said it many times before. Development comes before play, and it will continue to do so until we go 'live' ourselves.[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Simply put, you want us to never wipe and work our way around your toons, you'd have to pay full salaries so we'd have the time to donate and still actually get anything done, that's the problem with the assertion you're making.[/font][/color]

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You are not seeing the over all point.... There are how many registered members? And how many now play and actually contribute to the game emu?

I have been in contact with my former guild mates on a regular basis and they mostly say the same as I have said about playing a game where there is no progress due to wipes.

I said there is no point in playing a game where progress character wise is a moot point, where DEVs say screw the majority and they expect it to continue onward.


Look at horizons, where the Ldev "David Bowman" wanted X and the community wanted Y. Now that community is mostly compromised by those that mainly played to play as a dragons mostly. Yes I could go back but do I want to? NO as there is no community other than the few that remain after a total rework of the community and world.

If there is a total of 20kish registered users and only 50-100 that actually play that are the true hardcore I am surprised by the $120+ donations monthly that are done anonymously that are done at all.


My point truly is if there were no more wipes that this community and player base would be much more than it currently is and even though we have alot less EnB lovers here than WoW nuts, we would have no issue meeting monthly quotas for server costs or building our own server (as you devs and much of the community would love to see including myself that costs alot less).


As some one previously said about other emu projects, "they ignored the majority and believed they were right no matter what they saw" and were epic fails.

If after this upcoming wipe there were no further wipes I would continue, but a wipe every few years is no game to me Only a grind fest and no better than WoW or a multitude of games where the devs only care about the financial future rather than the voice of the true player base.

Some had great games, such as horizons was before the massive change that started the massive outflow of players to wow and other MMO games. I am trying to be unbiased but am being ignored in the sense that my comments are taken inappropriately other than real life issues such as your comment on the EF4 tornado that went less than a mile from me.

I love EnB as much if not more than you KYP but if there is no continuity other than wipes for all that do not desire it to submit to the few complainers here that want a wipe as they think it is the fix for every issue there is, then I say no more wasted time as many others agree and have voted by no longer playing or contributing or playing at all...

My toons are not an issue, the total undiscriminating opinions that a wipe is the magic bullet fix motto is my issue. Edited by shadowxsx

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