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Lannister

Why I Think We Need A Player Wipe.

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IMO, Wipe only [u]after[/u] theres:

New Character items for JS, PP and the TS.
Theres a Bogril Boss to kill.
Theres a PVP arena or Sector. (Boosss's and Hissss's)
All Class and Profession skills have been implimented and working to some extent.
Boss drops are more rare
Drop only items are more rare.
IP Character Limits in Place, 2 max (Boosss's and Hissss's) Theres not much player interaction...
Bosses are harder to kill and will require Multi-guild raids

Extend ST4 If :

Non-manufactural items Boss drops are more rare
Non- boss drops are more rare.
All builders charge for services in addition to cost of Comps and Manufacturing. (No 1 credit Sales !!)
There has GOT TO BE an economy. Whats the point of playing and hunting if its free and redily available
its just another way to pass the time, the reward will be that much more sweet !..

Bosses are harder to kill and will require Multi-guild raids!

I will say that I am playing a New toon because its more challenging and fun. But because I am
guilty of the Multi-character playing its still to dam easy.

And thats My $0.02.

Phor..
  • Upvote 2

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Interesting viewpoints by all. I suppose I'll toss my 2/100'ths of a dollar in as well.

I went through all the wipes before live. I accepted it as a part of the game going gold. Getting back up to speed was not much of an issue due to so many guilds/players helping out (except on that cutthroat server, hehe).

I don't have gobs of cash, maybe 200 million spread out among my characters. I never had an issue with any player in game. I'm part of a small guild (Epic) that has some very cool active members. And I'm thankful that people like Alphus, Vaden, and Magoo (and others) are more than helpful.

I'm an old school gamer. Like many of you, I've done about 10 MMO's or more (Anarchy Online, Ultima, Everquest, Asheron's Call, City of Heroes, WWII on line, Silk Road, A Tale in the Desert are what I remember). To some degree most go on. (Trivia point--the original idea for WWII on line was mine and two friends. We let others take the idea and run with it. They screwed it up).

One game that always kept my interest was Asheron's Call. The graphics suck. But the content, [b]for all levels[/b], was, and still is, insane. No matter what level you are, and whether you are solo or grouped, there was always somwething to do. Yes, this game has the benefit of 10+ years of content, but even at inception it had multilevel content. They still have a crazy-ass hardcore contingent of players, a good number of them on the PvP server, my home there for nine years.

IMO, multilevel content doable for all is the key to most MMO's. A game like this, more than most, screams for it. The premise is there. The basic idea and framework is there. We had some of it back in live, and even that small amount of content is missed. As someone stated, what is there to do once you get your first hull upgrade? Maybe a few missions, then grind trade, combat, and jobs so you can do the end content. There is a gaping hole of content once you get passed lv 50-60 to the time you get your last hull upgrade. Sure, at lv 100 you can do the RD mission for 500 faction points, or the mission out of Prasad for Sai'li...but how much time does that really take?

Classes that can't solo mobs past lv 25 are at the mercy of the job terminal or begging for a group. Back in live there were combat groups everywhere. Not so today. Trade nerf makes it better to just find a quick way to ferry tourists and diplomats if you don't need cash. Even with the small player base, people are fighting for jobs at certain times of the day. The lack of content is telling in VT, where it seems everyone and their mother that hits lv 60 goes there to drop satellites and trash off at Surti Alpha. Once you run out of nav points, it is the only way to get explore xp outside of a few missions, the pittence you get from combat jobs, or tours. And really, how many tours are there anymore? How many toons can we make and tour around? How many people, out of desparation, have made new alts just to tour and get explore xp for a different toon?

In real estate it's all about location. In MMO's, it's all about content. I know there are only a few devs, and their time is limited. I say the hell with minor bugs and get content back into the game. Why not have level restricted mission against mobs? Heck, let's have lv 1-50 Vrix in game and kill them. PvP? Make a Pvp-only sector with a neutral base-you enter the sector, you can be killed (The old arena sucked serious balls). Plus, having a PvP-only sector makes that content totally optional. Let people work out tactics and see what the best combo is. Increase those ore fields. Have Chavez raid Net-7 and let them put out a broadcast for help. Let me buy donuts in F7--no, scratch that, mt diet will be shot...

I thik everyone is doing the best they can. The Agrippa stuff is something else for the Proggies to do, and is welcomed, even if people bitch about how hard it is to be a Progen. SImilar Jennie/Terran content would be nice.

Player wipe? No biggie. If it happens I'd like to see an option to keep one character, and that character keep it's engine, mounted weapons, reactor, and shield--nothing more. No maps expect the ammo you need. No vault full of goodies. That way, if you have a lv 150 you at least didn't lose it, but you don't have 1,000,000,000 credits either to pollute the economy with.

I know I'm rambling on. I have tons of ideas. See you in game Zack, but not tonight, I'm busy. :)
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Problem with a wipe without some new content, is that most of what gets tested will be the trade runs and Job terminals. Some new equipment, some vendor, some mission reward, some drops, would be tested. Finding & testing it would be, well, fun. That's the whole point of playing a video game, if that element is not there, one may as well be going to work. With a game like EnB, there will always be a need for new things to do, new equipment to find, new sectors to open, if it gets stagnant on those fronts, expect decline in the playerbase.

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[quote name='Zackman' timestamp='1327572619' post='52358']
Kyp, thank you for the answer, i appreciate - tho i disagree on some points.
But i make it short this time ( :lol: ):

Kyp, i got aware yesterday already that you obvl. misreaded CPwings - but i decided to not comment it, CPWings could reply on his own of course.
I will jump in anyway: He was saying that he cant understand how builders ingame can charge a lot of credits for builds when everyone knows the stuff goes poofy anyway soon.
He wasnt talking about real-life/donations in any way.

For the very issue - i am just quoting one sentence that sums it up:

Sugarcoating things was never the issue - to me its all about [b]respect[/b].
There is a difference between "sugarcoating" and being respectful - no1 should be forced to pay for respect.

I know you are going to answer like
[i]"You dont need to pay for respect - that's already done by my boss :D .[/i]
[i]I always try to be respectful to the community. Im just not sugarcoating the ugly truth - which is a difference."[/i]

So i did it just for you :D

And like always in life...the truth is somewhere in the middle.
I can say everything has been cleared up for me at this point, thanks again.
[size=3][i]Edited for better words[/i][/size]
[/quote]

Yes, that post yesterday made me go back and re-read, I acted instinctually/impulsively there and that is my bad. My apologies to Cpwings, like I said in the original post I wasn't aiming at you, just that statement as if it applied to donations.

RE: Sugarcoating & Being Respectful:

I believe respect is earned and never given freely. Always have. No amount of money can get you my actual respect, only your deeds/actions, and words. I will always maintain civility or at least near-civility where I can but like I said before, we're not paid therefore there's no impetus for me to provide a civility overdose. ;) As said I don't want to drive anyone away, but its up to you whether you stay, or you leave, or you keep playing or not. I do this to keep my skills growing, and for entertainment.

Also, no problem. :)

[quote name='shadowxsx' timestamp='1327577775' post='52360']
A suggestion...

Start a new section on the forums for things that need tested and ask for volunteers to help with it, as many of us have multiple accounts and many free spaces or can even create new accounts if needed. I am sure many would be willing to help and those of us that currently can not donate that would like to help out in some way will have something to do ;)

I am not against a wipe for testing with future restore as an option for those who want it (actually sounds better than poof be gone to most I am sure).

Also I don't think that those mentioning donators leaving are not meaning that they will not donate if there are going to be wipes. What I read mostly is "what if you keep loosing donators and the server does shut down then what?"
[/quote]

To respond in short because I have much to do tonight: We tried it, what with the PTR server, but we hardly ever had activity and the people who did get on that had access to commands didn't care about testing very much. *shrug* I see it another way now, we can ask you to do it, and you can refuse, but the longer we don't get the data, the longer your existing characters sit around in limbo waiting for you to test. ;)

RE: donations, People can threaten not to donate as much as they want, to most of the team this is a kicking/screaming fit in the middle of the grocery store isle. If you give, you get to play, if you don't, you won't because none of us alone can afford it.

[quote name='Drained' timestamp='1327587165' post='52364']
They would just go back to internal development, I guess thats the reason they don't rely on the player donators to donate directly to the project costs ;). As of now we are just here to test the content they have developed, exactly like canaries in a coal mine-- canaries keep dying-- time to get out of the coal mine (those birds are really sensitive to methane :)), so between the server crashes, bugs, broken missions, improperly functioning mob AI and overall structure of the game, the coal mine just isn't ready yet. I saw kyp mention that once they release the client people who are so inclined can start up and run their own servers-- does that mean the server we play on now will cease to exist? Or will this current server be up and running along with other possible servers that others will most likely set up?

As a side note, I see this whole "we're gonna stop donating if you guys do x,y,z" as a failed powergrab, like if a child asked for a cookie and the parent says "no" so the child goes, "well I'm gonna hold my breath until i get a cookie then!", but I guess people are always looking for ways to hold the sword over the heads of those who they think are "oppressing" them or who have more power. Players in the emu don't really have much power at all, which is a good thing... lol... the height of it is really posting bug reports/ testing game mechanics, and taking any other problems we encounter to a dev/gm for a possible fix. Otherwise we're here for the ride, and yes alot of people party like its 1999... or play like its live status, I'm one of em.. until this thread started and a few other things that made me realize that "being in it to win it" isn't the purpose of a Test.... but thats a hard sell to people who have worked hard to get where they are at over the past year-- myself included-- but like was said in my first post on this thread, true love doesn't end with a wipe, if anything it gives us a chance to start fresh in a better version of the game we all love so much. Is it gonna suck? Yeah, having my cookie...characters taken away sucks, but if it needs to be done then so beeazlebub it...
-End Transmission-
[/quote]

Yes we can go internal, but like Shaddex said, you guys have the power to keep the server up or down, this is up to you. It wouldn't stop us from developing, it would just mean camping forums waiting for us to post :)


[quote name='Phorlaug' timestamp='1327610018' post='52378']
IMO, Wipe only [u]after[/u] theres:

New Character items for JS, PP and the TS.
Theres a Bogril Boss to kill.
Theres a PVP arena or Sector. (Boosss's and Hissss's)
All Class and Profession skills have been implimented and working to some extent.
Boss drops are more rare
Drop only items are more rare.
IP Character Limits in Place, 2 max (Boosss's and Hissss's) Theres not much player interaction...
Bosses are harder to kill and will require Multi-guild raids

Extend ST4 If :

Non-manufactural items Boss drops are more rare
Non- boss drops are more rare.
All builders charge for services in addition to cost of Comps and Manufacturing. (No 1 credit Sales !!)
There has GOT TO BE an economy. Whats the point of playing and hunting if its free and redily available
its just another way to pass the time, the reward will be that much more sweet !..

Bosses are harder to kill and will require Multi-guild raids!

I will say that I am playing a New toon because its more challenging and fun. But because I am
guilty of the Multi-character playing its still to dam easy.

And thats My $0.02.

Phor..
[/quote]

We don't intend to wipe yet, so there's nothing to fear. There's more content available than you would expect, but there's a fair amount that's limited to us because its been tested and we want to surprise you. ;P RE: economy, we almost had that going this time, but Merlin's actions with those ore fields crashed the economy like 10,000 tons of bricks from space for the people that knew where to go they were able to acquire and print everything, thereby rendering everything valueless or nearly so.

The Mob AI is getting enhanced and we're doing plenty of stuff to make the game more interesting, but there's only so many of us that can write any code and all that. A majority of our content developers are non-programmers and rely upon tools to do their jobs. However, we seriously improved the mission tool recently, so you will probably start seeing the fruits of that over the next several months after we make sure all the kinks with the new functionality out of it.

Take care,

Kyp

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Hey kyp, thank you for your response, by the way you keep replying and breaking your record of long posts :D. Also, i know you would like to surprise us, but can you do it sooner? Is there something holding you back from surprising us? People do the raids pretty fast and they do it a lot, after awhile it gets boring. You need to keep feeding us content, were like hungry people with forks and knifes banging on the table here. Of course, you still need time to work everything out :)

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I'll consider it. ;)

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[quote name='Shaddex' timestamp='1327449978' post='52201']
Im sorry but i have to say something.

Most of you are talking as if we are running `live` and forget we arent even at alpha release yet.
The whole point of having a player base at this stage is so you guys can check everything works.
How can all aspects of the game be tested with everyone at lvl150?
Who is going to check starter sectors, low level missions etc if everyone is 100 plus?

I was on beta for live and we had a fair few wipes before we went live.

I say bring on a wipe.
Lets get all the low end content checked off the list.

Fact is that a wipe WILL happen eventually.
[/quote]

I'm gonna try to be direct here with everyone... :)

[b]That also includes me agreeing to the agreement that i click before launching the client which we all agree to and no this is not apple so don't go there.[/b] LOL Just stating a fact like we all have so far in this thread. [b]They have the right to change and wipe when every they want. [/b]So if they loose players or gain them then thats on them Not us!!! I do think however that the majority of w/e the player base is, is trying to save the devs from making a wrong descion and listening to just 1 advocate "lannister" who barely even knows anyone in my guild let alone my self.

Why don't you use ur same methode of wipeing on the DEV server? I thought that was what beta testers were for? We are no longer "beta tester" on the play server sense it is open now right? If low lvl content is your major concern then put a real lvl cap on all our arses and start at ol 50 then after your satisfied with fixing and testing that on the ptr server with "[b]beta testers[/b]" u move it to the play server and cap us at 50 then move on to 100 ect,ect. That way no more users have a reason to complain about 150 high lvl equip because by default it was capped for testing purposes.

I'm against the Play wipe on the player server not the ptr server or dev server. We need to see results of some kind show us whats wrong and with evidence put the fear of errors and terror into our lil playing hearts so that we know where your comming from and can meet the problem in between. pictures, coding, maybe in-game take us to a destination spot and say "this well screw up your raid if we don't fix it" thats exaggerating but then we might be presuaded but were a logicaly bunch just wanting evidence and results. I might have donated this year or month because I now have a "job" and have "money" but seeing as how the players behaviors is getting out of control and resisting your urge to communicate. Makes me think you could find other ways that are more effect even for a child to understand. Instead of treating us like a bunch of test subjects. It's business when money is invlovled so ofcourse the crowd goes wild you should have expected it. There is good an every bad and vise versa. Find a solution and work your way through it!

Untill then I well hold my funding and see what offers you can make towards the player base in return for there attempt to resisting your next step if that is your final decsion to wipe the server once more.

FYI Charge the wipes each wipe cost $300 - $1000. SERIOUSLY!!! Now who really wants to have fun and wipe there toons and equipment? Ofcourse you would also be helping the devs reach there goals faster then normal, but only because were very curious to know if it's a successful plan or not. :)

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[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]"Why don't you use ur same methode of wipeing on the DEV server?" Because its a hell of a lot more heavy handed there, we just wipe all accounts and the beta testers re-register (and don't complain) ;)[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]" I thought that was what beta testers were for?"[/font][/color]

To an extent, but there's not enough beta testers to get the data we need.

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]"We are no longer "beta tester" on the play server sense it is open now right?"[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Incorrect. The game is in a test state, this server data is not guaranteed and never has been. I'm not sure where you got that idea, honestly. As previously said, you don't donate, there is no server. You are not entitled to anything other than having a server up that you can be a part of without being on the beta tester team, that is all, period.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]It doesn't look like you are reading, orga, or you would know that I've already said there is no wipe coming up right now, but when we decide to do so, we will do it without a question and irregardless of donation threats. If the donation goals aren't reached and the money supply dwindles, the server will shut down.

Enjoy punishing yourself by withholding donations. :)[/font][/color]

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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1327634598' post='52450']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]"Why don't you use ur same methode of wipeing on the DEV server?" Because its a hell of a lot more heavy handed there, we just wipe all accounts and the beta testers re-register (and don't complain) ;)[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]" I thought that was what beta testers were for?"[/font][/color]

To an extent, but there's not enough beta testers to get the data we need.
[/quote]

Oh your short handed on beta testers? Yet your aware of there being possible candidates on the play server whom would migrate to the ptr server. Why not somebody who's welling to join your beta testing team so your not short handed anymore and can continue to use the ptr server without disrupting users on the play server?

What data would that be also, just curious?

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[quote name='Orga2' timestamp='1327637160' post='52454']
Oh your short handed on beta testers? Yet your aware of there being possible candidates on the play server whom would migrate to the ptr server. Why not somebody who's welling to join your beta testing team so your not short handed anymore and can continue to use the ptr server without disrupting users on the play server?

What data would that be also, just curious?
[/quote]

Exactly one of my points.


Kyp if you need testers just ask, there are alot of people as I stated that would like to help but they can not donate due to finacial issues or so this would give the "bored" also a chance to do something different also.

I for one would, many people I know would also. Not to get to see stuff not live yet but just to help out in some way. Edited by shadowxsx

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Hey kyp, wait a minute. You are saying that you do not have enough beta testers? Please explain to me why this is so. Plus i'm sure people want to help out and find bugs for the development team to fix, whats the qualifications to become a beta tester? Edited by Darkdronen

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Firstly, there's a big difference between beta testing and stress testing. Beta testers test things specifically, they don't really have the time to run through the entire experience from level 0 to 150 - they just run through missions, test processes like trading, exploring, or what have you and report their experiences. What we're doing on Sunrise is more of a stress test, where everyone is playing as if we were live, which lets us find problems which arise from server loading, extensive player-to-player interaction, and the extreme attention to detail that a player will naturally gain over an extended period of time really playing the game. What that all means is essentially that more beta testers won't help in the same way that a player wipe would.

Secondly, the database is dirty and the best way to clean it up is a wipe. This is something the devs have put off for a long, long time already and it needs to be done sometime.

Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, the PP will pwn at PvP; that's who I'd be worried about, not the PS.

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I didn't even know that there is a "PTR Server" ? I didnt even know there are Beta Testers needed for another server?

I never read about they need such testers.
Why is there no sticky asking for help?



PS.:
Can you guys take that PVP discussion to OOC?

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Before PTR users were given the ability to use slash commands to level up they were expected to spend time levelling up their own characters which was just a deterrent. After being able to level up using slash commands developers hardly ever asked for stuff to be tested on PTR so it became a tumble-weed location and it then went offline completely.

Databases with dirty data just mean someone is not inclined to spend the effort cleaning it up.
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[quote name='Lot' timestamp='1327664151' post='52489']
Databases with dirty data just mean someone is not inclined to spend the effort cleaning it up.
[/quote]
This is a volunteer project. If you see something that doesn't get done, it's not because we're lazy it's because we don't have time. I'm going to be blunt with you here: that kind of comment is rather insensitive. Nobody pays us for this, none of those donations help us out and, because we spend so much time working on the game, many of us don't even have the extra time to actually play the game.

Also, there's no sticky asking for help because it's not necessarily needed at the moment. The majority of bug finding is done on the stress test server by players, so we only need Betas to test a few specific things, like missions and raids before they're pushed to the public server.

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I for one an just happy to be playing the game again. My hat is off to all the Dev's that put time into making it work again. A wipe will suck but hey...I am playing EnB again which s all that really matters to me.

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Well Cdel after all the BS that happened with the split and hulk fest and other things I missed I can understand being leary of getting more people in to help. But DB get cluttered and if a wipe will happen every time it gets that way why not ask some people to help out with the db clean up rather than just wipe every time? Thier soul purpose is cleaning db and would be monitored so they do not make changes to accounts only taking out the trash (so to say).

I know there are times for wipes and not times. I know we do need testing done and all you need is to ask and most will help. Yet we also need players to keep the donations coming in to run the servers. As loosing players as we have since early on when we had alot more players, kinda worries us that love playing and have been around longer. Which is why I think many are so vocal on these issues. Yet some tend to ignore common sense and almost seem to not care if the server is shutdown, almost as if it would be a relief with thier attitudes.

We all know (for most of the players) you work your tails off and this is volunteer work. You also need to consider the fact that if players keep leaving then the project will die and all this work will have been for nothing. Edited by shadowxsx

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[attachment=1301:the_incredible_hulk_1978-show.jpg]

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====reposted this reply into a new PvP suggestions thread to end the offtopic discussion====

https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/6408-pvp-discussion-how-to-make-it-fun/ Edited by Ryle

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[quote name='Orga2, shadowxsx, Darkdronen, Zackman, Lot' timestamp='1327637160' post='52454']
[b]Orga2:[/b]
Oh your short handed on beta testers? Yet your aware of there being possible candidates on the play server whom would migrate to the ptr server. Why not somebody who's welling to join your beta testing team so your not short handed anymore and can continue to use the ptr server without disrupting users on the play server?

What data would that be also, just curious?
---
[b]shadowxsx:[/b]
Exactly one of my points.


Kyp if you need testers just ask, there are alot of people as I stated that would like to help but they can not donate due to finacial issues or so this would give the "bored" also a chance to do something different also.

I for one would, many people I know would also. Not to get to see stuff not live yet but just to help out in some way.Exactly one of my points.
---
[b]Darkdronen:[/b]
Hey kyp, wait a minute. You are saying that you do not have enough beta testers? Please explain to me why this is so. Plus i'm sure people want to help out and find bugs for the development team to fix, whats the qualifications to become a beta tester?
---
[b]Zackman:[/b]
I didn't even know that there is a "PTR Server" ? I didnt even know there are Beta Testers needed for another server?

I never read about they need such testers.
Why is there no sticky asking for help?
---
[b]Lot:[/b]
Before PTR users were given the ability to use slash commands to level up they were expected to spend time levelling up their own characters which was just a deterrent. After being able to level up using slash commands developers hardly ever asked for stuff to be tested on PTR so it became a tumble-weed location and it then went offline completely.

Databases with dirty data just mean someone is not inclined to spend the effort cleaning it up.
---
[b]shadowxsx:[/b]
Well Cdel after all the BS that happened with the split and hulk fest and other things I missed I can understand being leary of getting more people in to help. But DB get cluttered and if a wipe will happen every time it gets that way why not ask some people to help out with the db clean up rather than just wipe every time? Thier soul purpose is cleaning db and would be monitored so they do not make changes to accounts only taking out the trash (so to say).

I know there are times for wipes and not times. I know we do need testing done and all you need is to ask and most will help. Yet we also need players to keep the donations coming in to run the servers. As loosing players as we have since early on when we had alot more players, kinda worries us that love playing and have been around longer. Which is why I think many are so vocal on these issues. Yet some tend to ignore common sense and almost seem to not care if the server is shutdown, almost as if it would be a relief with thier attitudes.

We all know (for most of the players) you work your tails off and this is volunteer work. You also need to consider the fact that if players keep leaving then the project will die and all this work will have been for nothing.
---
END
[/quote]

Gonna keep this short and sweet cause I have tons to do tonight. So in order, here we go in order:

Yes. I asked people if they would be willing to do this, the one time we asked we got 10 people. To join a beta testing team you have to be willing to accept direction and do exactly what's asked, this certainly isn't everyone. Most people want to play, beta testing is boring. Thus the very few beta testers. Because certain data cannot be obtained from one or two people.
---
I understand, but some things are far more efficiently found with more than 100 people on the server. Thus why you are also a test server, whether or not its fun or annoying.
---
See above. You'd think they would, but its not common. RE: Quals, talk to Arthurdent in teamspeak or in the forum, but in general, good spelling, good grammar, technical understanding/troubleshooting ability for starters.
---
[b]was[/b] a PTR server. Beta testers and people willing to do the things we ask are ALWAYS needed, the problem is not many people realize what they get themselves into because it's a lot like a real job. There [b]WAS[/b] a whole forum dedicated to it. ;)
---
Commands were granted to most people by the first time we asked for a test. Although some commands did not work because they defeated the purpose of the focused test, that was entirely intentional.

RE: DB, not even remotely true, nice try tho. We don't have a lot of time, the data is severely corrupted in the guilds area because of many bugs we had since we added it. There is simply no way to repair that data because of said corruption, the data doesn't make sense. Clear now?
---
Because its easier to wipe and get a fresh start from a development standpoint, and this is a test like I've said before. You should not be overly attached to your characters, you [b]KNOW[/b] its a stress test. There's nothing that belies this truth. Players fluctuate, we track it a lot more than people think, we're not oblivious to declines and rises in the playerbase despite the popular belief. The game will not die, there are diehard fans that will never go away. Besides which, as before, if it shut down there will still be people eager to play when released. In fact I know for certain there are many people simply waiting on the sidelines for the day that they know there won't be another wipe, and instead talk to us and play other games at present.

I've said it in the past and I'll say it again, nothing is more important than the actual work of getting the game done. Not your characters, your friends characters, or even your whole guild's characters. Not your efforts, [b]nothing[/b] We wish to restore the game at least as fairly close to the live and/or improved where it needed it as we can. This is why for example Riia went painstakingly through 5 major live databases to restore most every item from the live game and ensure they were correct. He spent countless hours doing it that the rest of us couldn't stomach. I have spent most of a year working on a secret project that is intended to unveil at Alpha. There are many things that are important and will need testing. Your "fun" is not one of them. (Again as before, I'm not trying to be an ass to anyone, this is simply the cold, hard truth.)

[quote name='C Del' timestamp='1327647778' post='52471']
Firstly, there's a big difference between beta testing and stress testing. Beta testers test things specifically, they don't really have the time to run through the entire experience from level 0 to 150 - they just run through missions, test processes like trading, exploring, or what have you and report their experiences. What we're doing on Sunrise is more of a stress test, where everyone is playing as if we were live, which lets us find problems which arise from server loading, extensive player-to-player interaction, and the extreme attention to detail that a player will naturally gain over an extended period of time really playing the game. What that all means is essentially that more beta testers won't help in the same way that a player wipe would.

Secondly, the database is dirty and the best way to clean it up is a wipe. This is something the devs have put off for a long, long time already and it needs to be done sometime.

Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, the PP will pwn at PvP; that's who I'd be worried about, not the PS.
[/quote]

What he said, minus the bit about the PP, because as we all know, Terrans rule. ;)
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Kyp, if there is still such server and if there are still testers needed, sign me in. Edited by Zackman

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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1327716721' post='52553']
Gonna keep this short and sweet cause I have tons to do tonight. So in order, here we go in order:

Yes. I asked people if they would be willing to do this, the one time we asked we got 10 people. To join a beta testing team you have to be willing to accept direction and do exactly what's asked, this certainly isn't everyone. Most people want to play, beta testing is boring. Thus the very few beta testers. Because certain data cannot be obtained from one or two people.
---
I understand, but some things are far more efficiently found with more than 100 people on the server. Thus why you are also a test server, whether or not its fun or annoying.
---
See above. You'd think they would, but its not common. RE: Quals, talk to Arthurdent in teamspeak or in the forum, but in general, good spelling, good grammar, technical understanding/troubleshooting ability for starters.
---
[b]was[/b] a PTR server. Beta testers and people willing to do the things we ask are ALWAYS needed, the problem is not many people realize what they get themselves into because it's a lot like a real job. There [b]WAS[/b] a whole forum dedicated to it. ;)
---
Commands were granted to most people by the first time we asked for a test. Although some commands did not work because they defeated the purpose of the focused test, that was entirely intentional.

RE: DB, not even remotely true, nice try tho. We don't have a lot of time, the data is severely corrupted in the guilds area because of many bugs we had since we added it. There is simply no way to repair that data because of said corruption, the data doesn't make sense. Clear now?
---
Because its easier to wipe and get a fresh start from a development standpoint, and this is a test like I've said before. You should not be overly attached to your characters, you [b]KNOW[/b] its a stress test. There's nothing that belies this truth. Players fluctuate, we track it a lot more than people think, we're not oblivious to declines and rises in the playerbase despite the popular belief. The game will not die, there are diehard fans that will never go away. Besides which, as before, if it shut down there will still be people eager to play when released. In fact I know for certain there are many people simply waiting on the sidelines for the day that they know there won't be another wipe, and instead talk to us and play other games at present.

I've said it in the past and I'll say it again, nothing is more important than the actual work of getting the game done. Not your characters, your friends characters, or even your whole guild's characters. Not your efforts, [b]nothing[/b] We wish to restore the game at least as fairly close to the live and/or improved where it needed it as we can. This is why for example Riia went painstakingly through 5 major live databases to restore most every item from the live game and ensure they were correct. He spent countless hours doing it that the rest of us couldn't stomach. I have spent most of a year working on a secret project that is intended to unveil at Alpha. There are many things that are important and will need testing. Your "fun" is not one of them. (Again as before, I'm not trying to be an ass to anyone, this is simply the cold, hard truth.)



What he said, minus the bit about the PP, because as we all know, Terrans rule. ;)
[/quote]

So we got a smorgasbord issues of bugs/errors/corruption and data... As if the issues won't unavail them selfs yet again in the next Stress Test lmao. How are you prepared to handle this? So you can say "I told you so" after the player wipe and rediscovering da javue bugs again?? give details please. You might have cought the attention of us all by now.

and I second that, that Terrans rule!!!

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Orga,

No. I decline to acquiesce to that request. Mostly because I don't have the details you seek, it could happen again, but we don't think it would because we've not been witness to any additional corruption of this data for some time. Like some scientific studies the only way to do it is to create a controlled test, which is what a wipe would allow us to do in that case. This is the only way we can find out for sure, and basically like I've said time and again in this thread I think, when/if we do and make that decision, too bad. Your characters aren't as important as the game being closer to "finished", and I know that the opposition is always a lot more vocal than the people who don't care, that's basic human psychology. I'm noticing a lot of repeat business in this thread, and no new names.

Also of note, you're acting as if you should be entitled to keep the progress. Before I give any further details of any kind, I want to know "Why?", as this doesn't make any sense to us given that we've said "Don't get attached."

It's nothing personal, really, but let me be clear. When/if Tienbau thinks we need to wipe, there's no amount of arguing that's going to get you out of it, frankly this is purely impersonal to me, I'm more interested in getting to that "live" state so we can only give you updates and release things to private/outside servers with the lag we've promised previously. I told you our only offer above, we might restore data temporarily so you can return to play until we're ready for the next focused test but this "play" server is only there for stress currently as mentioned by CDel.

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[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1327774676' post='52596']
Orga,

No. I decline to acquiesce to that request. Mostly because I don't have the details you seek, it could happen again, but we don't think it would because we've not been witness to any additional corruption of this data for some time. Like some scientific studies the only way to do it is to create a controlled test, which is what a wipe would allow us to do in that case. This is the only way we can find out for sure, and basically like I've said time and again in this thread I think, when/if we do and make that decision, too bad. Your characters aren't as important as the game being closer to "finished", and I know that the opposition is always a lot more vocal than the people who don't care, that's basic human psychology. I'm noticing a lot of repeat business in this thread, and no new names.

Also of note, you're acting as if you should be entitled to keep the progress. Before I give any further details of any kind, I want to know "Why?", as this doesn't make any sense to us given that we've said "Don't get attached."

It's nothing personal, really, but let me be clear. When/if Tienbau thinks we need to wipe, there's no amount of arguing that's going to get you out of it, frankly this is purely impersonal to me, I'm more interested in getting to that "live" state so we can only give you updates and release things to private/outside servers with the lag we've promised previously. I told you our only offer above, we might restore data temporarily so you can return to play until we're ready for the next focused test but this "play" server is only there for stress currently as mentioned by CDel.
[/quote]

@ Kyp

I never said I was entitled to the progress, but I've been "volunteering" my time with the client that you enabled us to use for some time now and yet when I speak for my self nothing happens. It takes a large number of voices combined to build a bridge over that communication gap. I don't know what the reason is behind that I barely get to play now so obviously I do care still, but If we all focused on the progress instead of the "known" bugs and errors in-game. Then I very much so believe its what helps push or drive the dev's goals forward. Like you said "don't get attached to characters which I've never been, but that idea can still be thrown into a psychological stand point for others. Might as well also add that I'm stuck on the vaules that quality and productivity with 99% accuracy is key to getting stuff done. So I probably shouldn't hold as high standards for the development of this game now then back when, but then again I've been waiting just as long as you have to get to live so I monitor how the progress is from time to time. Besides testing there's nothing else i can do because i'm not eligable to be a beta tester. xD

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