Diffaculty

[guyzer11]

Is it me or is there an increasing amount of diffaculty makeing the game uncomfotable to play? To the point that I am looking for and playing other games. My current toon is the perfect example, a PS. OL126, 4 named guns L8, with many nice buffs and very good DPS, yet takeing out a Grissom Space Patrol is out of the question (L50). At CL46 I'm inclined to think an L50 opponent should be a challange but being only 4 CL higher easy enough to grind away and lvl up on. And don't get me going on my PW, parked and out of service until further notice.
Not being a new player to this game and very happy to be playing at all, this was my first and most favorite online game Many a heart felt thank you to the DEVs and everyone else involved in the restoration of this timeless classic. It just seems the game now is way more diffacult then live was. Or seems to be. Is it only me in thinking this and do I need a reality check? 10 ga.

[Warlock[IS]]

Just bear with us. We're still working on implementing other functionality which is missing from Live. I also have a PW and a PS on my player account and yes they're also parked most of the time. My JD is doing most kills these days.

Tweaking and balancing the game is now easier than before as we know more of the mechanics of the game. Just keep posting and sending your views on what should be done to improve the game and I'm sure someone from the DEV team in those areas affected will read and take into consideration.

Cheers,
J

[Terrell [BT]]

A CL 50 mob is an OL150 mob, so it should be difficult for a OL126 toon to take him.

[Mimir[IS]]

[quote name='Warlock' timestamp='1325089593' post='50451']
Just bear with us. We're still working on implementing other functionality which is missing from Live. I also have a PW and a PS on my player account and yes they're also parked most of the time. My JD is doing most kills these days.

Tweaking and balancing the game is now easier than before as we know more of the mechanics of the game. Just keep posting and sending your views on what should be done to improve the game and I'm sure someone from the DEV team in those areas affected will read and take into consideration.

Cheers,
J
[/quote]

I'm glad that you are aware of the problems that PWs have, but it has been like this for quite some time. All one needs to do to see the problems of a JD outfighting (less tactics) is to create new characters. Or look at the screen grabs from the character creator, as posted here.

[url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/5613-progen-warrior/page__st__40"]https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/5613-progen-warrior/page__st__40[/url]

A JD has an offense of 2 while a PW has an offense of 5....something is stinky here.

[Terrell [BT]]

Does the less than 1sec reload being impossible issue still exist for all weapons? If so fixing that will help the PW's DPS, since PLs tend to be hurt the worst by this.

[Buller]

Forget About It!

They do not care about the PW, if you want to play a warrior create a JD and you will get all the Attention/Help you need.

[Terrell [BT]]

[quote name='Buller' timestamp='1325104308' post='50466']
Forget About It!

They do not care about the PW, if you want to play a warrior create a JD and you will get all the Attention/Help you need.
[/quote]

Already have one (Defender), mine is OL145. Liked the class in Live, and emulator. Only think broken on that class, as far as I can tell, is energy leech.

Would still want to see the PW fixed, rather than seeing the other classes nerfed. The reload issue being fixed would help all 3 Progen classes as they'd get their full DPS from their weapons. This would probably reduce or end many of the PW related complaints. The PW isn't the only class that needs work, but there's an obvious step towards fixing them.

Each warrior should excel at something combat related otherwise there's no point in having more than one type of warrior.

Progen Warrior should be able to rule extended in your face combat. They have the best Shield/Reactor combo, in that they get L9 in both, the most HDC, and the most weapons. They can dish out and take more damage than others, especially since they can hang tough longer. Their weapons are currently broken.

Jenquai Defender should have the best burst damage, but should not be able to sustain their level of DPS the way the other 2 warriors do, due to the poor shields & weak armor. From an enemy's point of view a JW should appear out of nowhere, hit quite hard, then disappear before the mob can unleash on him. JW is designed around such tactics with low signature, cloaking, teleportation, good devices, and great reactors to power it all.

Terran Enforcer should excel at speed & range. Their weakness is their Reactor.

[Kenu [CDEV]]

just keep in mind we have 2 or 3 coders and they're constantly busy with other stuff, like the terran hull upgrades.
they're far too busy to shuffle through threads about how the PW needs improvement if those threads don't have practical suggestions or evidence of the problem. Now it sounds like the PW is a bit low on DPS so here's what I suggest we do

1. Gather evidence of low PW DPS. Take a stopwatch and test similar setups of the warrior classes on the same mob. Compare results.

2. If there is evidence of a problem, suggest a practical solution.

3. Decide on which solution works best.

4. Test that solution. (Coder)

since you guys are stress testers and you probably know much better high end equipment setups than we do if you could get evidence of the problem we could have a much better understanding of what's going wrong and it would be easier to find a solution.
Just saying "the PW is too weak so I don't play mine" doesn't help us

[Phorlaug[IS]]

IMO, A Warrior is a char that can take damage, Get and keep the aggression of the NPCs,
and keep the group together and keep them alive. Know when to get the warp out of there.

I know I don't speak for all the JDs but, Hell I'll take a percentage of the PWs
Hull and Shields and you can give them a percentage of my DPS. 2 percent maybe

I have said it was too easy for us all to kill stuff, maybe just maybe it might have changed. IMO the game is still to easy at different levels, maybe the difficulty ramping may be off a little still. That will take time.

I have been thinking how nice it would be to have Ardus open, maybe having the characters and DPS fixed first would be best.
I don't play a PW I will never play a Progen so I don't know how bad it is for one to kill a L50.
But Like Megan says (JD) "You fight like an Assassin instead of standing toe to toe with your enemy like the Progen warrior."

Phor....

[Mimir[IS]]

[quote name='Kenu' timestamp='1325108295' post='50469']
just keep in mind we have 2 or 3 coders and they're constantly busy with other stuff, like the terran hull upgrades.
they're far too busy to shuffle through threads about how the PW needs improvement if those threads don't have practical suggestions or evidence of the problem. Now it sounds like the PW is a bit low on DPS so here's what I suggest we do

1. Gather evidence of low PW DPS. Take a stopwatch and test similar setups of the warrior classes on the same mob. Compare results.

2. If there is evidence of a problem, suggest a practical solution.

3. Decide on which solution works best.

4. Test that solution. (Coder)

since you guys are stress testers and you probably know much better high end equipment setups than we do if you could get evidence of the problem we could have a much better understanding of what's going wrong and it would be easier to find a solution.
Just saying "the PW is too weak so I don't play mine" doesn't help us
[/quote]



I think if you can find where the original nurf took place, roll that back and then do a modification with a little lighter touch might be a good place to start. I for one quit playing my PW and from what I read here on the forums so have many others. If weeding out the number of PWs was the original intent it succeeded.
"Just saying "the PW is too weak so I don't play mine" doesn't help us " Oh and you should be able to find what you did to the PW.

[Buller]

Here are some posts on the PW, on this Forum:

Illydar: I was just concerned over the two minute timer. The update info didn't say anything about Group Sap being single target now. *sigh* Posted 16 September 2011 - 01:18 AM

Bellash: Last patch the nerf was that Grav Link and Tanis debuff will no longer stack, this patch yet another Shield Sap nerf . Before all this Turbo nerf and Black Spitter nurf. Whats next? Posted 16 September 2011 - 09:56 PM

ryprx: I haven't even bothered with my PW in the last 6 months or so...no longer the pure warrior, he's been nerfed so badly that a well-equipped same-level JE can now outfight him. I tested this with my own JE at the time.
A freakin JE!! Posted 16 September 2011 - 10:47 PM

lordfalcon: but come on a JE being able to out dps a PW Posted 17 September 2011 - 06:27 PM

HellHas: Will we ever see a fix to the PL reload fire rate?? As only the Black Spitter gets full use of the turbo because it already has a high reload... Posted 03 October 2011 - 11:00 AM

Klyde: What concerns me more than anything else is, the constant attention to "fixing" the PW over the other classes. And, some of the admittedly knee-jerk adjustments. Posted 09 October 2011 - 04:09 PM

Bellash: Well now that the 2 min sap timer is in my PW is using single timer sap so i can maybe use sap on the next mob . Tried this on the 60 drones in BBW. Now i notice that even using this strat sap heals less then 1 k shields. In a raid having more then one PW is just a bad idea. The first PW that saps puts all other PW's on his timer and they cant use their sap for two mins. Combine all this with the turbo nerf that ONLY the progen feel ( 1 sec lowest reload timer) Thats less then 5% turbo for 5 of 6 guns for a PW.Thats just too many nerfs making the PW just not worth playing. Posted 02 December 2011 - 03:53 PM

iamme: I have not logged on for more that a few minutes since shield sap has been messed with. Lets put it back the way it was and make all us PW players happy again. It is just boring as hell. Posted 05 December 2011 - 08:34 AM

iamme: But a JD can slaughter as many as he wants.......thats just not what the game was designed to do. PW is suppose to be the king of battle. Posted 05 December 2011 - 08:39 AM

wonder: Ppl HAVE TO know be4 selecting a class from character creation that the description is a fake: King of combat = PW no! = JD Posted 05 December 2011 - 11:05 AM

Sneakypw: the player advocate job is to bring up issues players are having in game to the devs and then reporting back on whats up. also on nerfing the pws shield, freak said over a month ago he would take the timmer off sap what happen to that Posted 05 December 2011 - 05:49 PM

iamme: If you look at the pic posted above of the in game creator the PW is maxed on offensive and defensive far and above all other classes. This is how is should always be, period. Posted 05 December 2011 - 06:30 PM

will: Sap:
The heal from T3 Group Sap and T5 Group Sapping Sphere is bugged, being reduced per group member, present or not, but still only healing the user. It will also not heal at all if any group member is out of range of the user. Varied results when used ungrouped, but generally not good. Do not rely on these skills for healing atm. Use T2 Shield Transfer and T4 Sapping Sphere until fixed. Posted 09 December 2011 - 08:51 PM

Bellash: As far as the the sap in a raid setting it cant keep up with the JE leech Posted 10 December 2011 - 06:44 PM

Mattsacre: The PW has to sit right up close and take the full fury of the agroed mobs return fire with hampered guns, then to add insult to injury the skill that was added to live, SHIELD SAP to mitigate both the dmg they recieved and to hold aggro in a raid has been constantly toyed/nerfed with. Posted 14 December 2011 - 09:20 AM

Mimir: Maybe the Devs will take this post to heart and "re-tweak" the PWs back? Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:43 AM

lordfalcon Not sure as why you call it ignorant rhetoric. He was stating a fact and the truth about the PW being overly nerfed and very much down graded. It is true and factual. Posted 21 September 2011 - 04:11 PM

Prrekoorb: Sap is fubar,but i think you will find that inversion does work.The gfx start but stop soon after but the skill still activates (it does on my PW),you just have to let it run. Posted 24 November 2011 - 11:20 AM

Like I said "Forget About it" play a JD or a Terran.

[Phorlaug[IS]]

Is there a DEV/BETA server or sector still? Make it PVP and let the warrior classes fight it out and see what happens.
Stand toe to toe and fight use your skills, then do it again to win use all the skills you have at your disposal. JD Combat cloak and shoot, cloak shoot. etc etc etc

Compile the data then adjust. (I know sounds simpler then it is especially with only two coders, I know)

You/we may not learn any thing but it sure would be exciting

Phorlaug

[Amethyst]

easy = boring?

[Mimir[IS]]

[quote name='Amethyst' timestamp='1325113546' post='50476']
easy = boring?
[/quote]

I'm not sure it took 2 coders to do what was done to the PW and I'm pretty sure it would only take one to undo what he/she did. And the PvP idea was a bad one imo.

[Kyp [LDEV]]

Time to break bad on this once again I suppose...

[url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/5587-august-content-update-info/page__hl__update__st__80"]Original Update Thread[/url]


[url="https://forum.enb-emulator.com/index.php?/topic/5587-august-content-update-info/page__view__findpost__p__46502"]How things are going to be in the end...[/url]


[url="http://wayback.archive.org/web/jsp/Interstitial.jsp?seconds=5&date=1071213430000&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.earthandbeyond.ea.com%2Fcommunity%2Fglimpse%2Fglimpse02.11_25.jsp&target=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20031212071710%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.earthandbeyond.ea.com%2Fcommunity%2Fglimpse%2Fglimpse02.11_25.jsp%20"]The truth[/url]


[quote name='EA Developers for Earth & Beyond']

Glimpse Inside - New Combat Skills
November 25, 2002

With the latest game update, every character in Earth & Beyond “learned” a new combat skill. Many players are still trying out their new skills for the first time, and learning when and where to use them, so we thought we’d delve into these new skills and see just what they have to offer.

One thing to keep in mind is that we aren’t planning a redistribution of player skill points at this time. However, you will never run out of skill points as long as you keep gaining experience. Even after you have reached level 150, you continue to accrue experience and additional skill points. Also remember that all of the new skills are automatically given to new characters, and all have seven levels of progression.

So, let’s take a look at each of the new skills:


Jenquai Defender: Energy Leech

This skill allows the Defender to drain energy from a target or group of targets. At lower levels of skill, the energy is drained from a single target. As the Defender becomes more skilled in Energy Leech, his abilities become more powerful and he is able to transfer energy drained to himself or drain multiple targets simultaneously. Eventually, at the highest levels of the ability, the Defender can drain energy from multiple targets and transfer that energy to himself and his groupmates.

The first level of this skill, Energy Drain, removes some energy from a single target’s reactor, while bumping the skill up to second level increases the amount of energy drained, and also the range of the skill.

The third level of this skill, Energy Leech, is available at Combat Level 5. It removes some energy from a target’s reactor and transfers it to your own ship. The fourth level, available at Combat Level 15, increases the effectiveness of your Leech.

The fifth level of the new skill is called Render Energy, and it is available at Combat Level 25. This skill drains a portion of a target’s energy and transfers it to your entire group. The effective range and amount of energy drained also increase at this level.

The sixth level, Energy Leeching Sphere, is available at Combat Level 35. It is an “area of effect” skill that is centered on a single target, but will pull energy from all valid targets within 1500 units. A portion of that energy is transferred to your ship.

The seventh level of the skill, Render Energy Sphere, works just like Energy Leeching Sphere, except that the transferred energy goes to all members of your group. And of course, the range of the skill, and the amount of energy transferred, are also higher. The area of effect is 3000 units, and the radius is determined from the primary target, not the user (as with all area of effect skills).

One thing to remember about this skill is that it has a two-minute residual effect. This means that once it has been activated on a target, the residual effect prevents the skill from being used on the target again for two minutes. (This includes different levels of the same skill. For example, a target hit by Render Energy cannot also be hit with Energy Drain until the residual effect from the Render Energy attack has worn off.) The residual effect begins as soon as the skill hits its target.


Terran Enforcer: Biorepression

This skill allows the Enforcer to slow the refire rate of an organic target or group of targets. As the Enforcer becomes more skilled, he is able to decrease the frequency at which organic mobs make use of their skills. At the highest level, the skill prevents the use of an organic weapon until it can be reinitialized by the mob, acting as a sort of organic hacking ability.

The first level of the skill, Biorepress, slows all weapons on a single organic target. The second level increases the effectiveness and range of the skill.

The third level, Biosuppress, slows all of an organic target’s weapons and also suppresses its skill usage. It also extends the range and duration of the effects. Biorepress is available at Combat Level 5. The fourth level of the skill is available at Combat Level 15 and further increases the range and effectiveness of Biosuppress.

The fifth level of the skill, Biorepression Sphere, introduces an “area of effect,” meaning that all organic targets within 2000 units are affected and have their weapon use slowed. It does not, however, reduce skill usage by the target. Duration and range are increased over previous levels. Biorepression Sphere is available at Combat Level 25.

At the sixth level, Biosuppression Sphere (available at Combat Level 35), still slows weapons of all organic targets within the area of effect, and also provides suppression of skill use within the same area. In addition, the effectiveness, range, radius of the effect, and duration are also increased.

Finally, the seventh level becomes available at Combat Level 45. This skill, Biocessation, is used on a single target. Successful use of the skill immediately takes one of the target’s weapons offline (similar to the Hacking skill that takes other items offline).


Jenquai Explorer: Shield Leech

This skill allows the Explorer to drain shield energy from a target or group of targets. At lower levels of skill, the energy is drained from a single target. As the Explorer becomes more skilled in Shield Leech, their abilities become more powerful and they are able to convert energy drained from enemy shields into reactor energy or drain multiple targets simultaneously. Eventually, at the highest levels of the ability, the Explorer can drain shield energy from multiple targets and convert that energy to reactor energy for themselves and their groupmates.

The first level of this skill is Shield Drain. It will drain shield energy from a single target, and the second level of the skill increases the range and amount drained.

At Combat Level 5, the Jenquai Explorer gets access to the third level, Shield Leech. This skill drains a much larger amount of energy from your target’s shields, and then transfers a portion of that energy into your own reactor. The fourth level of this skill, available at Combat Level 15, increases the amount of energy drained and transferred, and also has a longer range.

At Combat Level 25, Group Leech becomes available. This skill drains a much larger amount of the shield energy from your target, converts that energy, and transfers a portion of it to your entire group for use in their reactors.

When you reach Combat Level 35, you have the option of obtaining Shield Leeching Sphere. This skill carries an “area of effect” of 1500 units, centered on your primary target. When activated, Shield Leeching Sphere removes some shield energy from all valid targets within the area of effect, converts a portion of it into reactor energy, and transfers that energy to the skill user. The radius of the area of effect is calculated from the primary target, not the user.

The final level of the skill, Group Leeching Sphere, is available at Combat Level 45. This skill has an area of effect of 3000 units, drains a larger amount of shield energy from all targets within that area, and converts a portion of it into reactor energy. That energy is then transferred to all members of the skill user’s group. The radius of the area of effect is calculated from the primary target, not the user.

[b]Note that all levels of Shield Leech also leave a two-minute residual effect, which means that once the skill is activated on a target, that target cannot be hit with the same skill by any player for two minutes.[/b]


Progen Sentinel: Repulsor Field

This skill creates a feedback bubble around the Sentinel or the Sentinel's target, which repulses damage taken, inflicting damage back on the originator of the attack. Initially, only incoming energy damage creates this effect, but as the skill is advanced additional damage types begin to be repulsed. As the Sentinel becomes more skilled, the amount of incoming damage returned to the source increases as does the maximum of damage. New Sentinels may find this especially useful against Nazari in Mars Beta. Also remember that this skill does not mitigate incoming damage, but reflects some of that damage back on the attacker.

The first level of Repulsor Field is called Energy Repulsor. It can only be targeted on the user, and reflects a percentage of energy-based damage back at the Sentinel’s attacker. The second level of Energy Repulsor has slightly increased effectiveness, range, and duration.



A Progen Sentinel employs her Repulsor skill.
Click for a Larger Version
At Combat Level 5, the Sentinel can choose to obtain Impact Repulsor. This skill is targetable on either the user or another single player, and reflects a percentage of both energy and impact damage back at the attacker. It also reflects a higher amount of damage, and has a longer duration and range. Upon reaching Combat Level 15, the Sentinel can increase this skill and gain increased effectiveness and duration.

The next level is Plasma Repulsor, available at Combat Level 25. This skill acts much like Impact Repulsor, but it reflects a percentage of plasma-based damage in addition to energy and impact damage. It also reflects a greater amount of damage, for a longer period of time, and has greater range. This skill is also targetable either on the user or another single player.

Reaching Combat Level 35 allows the Sentinel to obtain the EMP Repulsor skill. This skill acts much like the previous skills, but adds reflection of a percentage of EMP-based damage as well. And like other levels, this skill includes increases to range, duration, and effectiveness.

The final level of this skill is called Damage Repulsor Field. This skill reflects a percentage of any type of damage back at the attacker. It has a greater range, effectiveness, and duration that any other level of Repulsor Field.


Terran Tradesman: Shield Charging

This skill allows the Tradesman to increase shield capacities for himself and others. As the Tradesman becomes more adept in the use of Shield Charging, he becomes able to increase the recharge rate of shields, and at the highest levels of ability, increase resistances as well.

The first level of the skill, Supercharge Shields, increases your shield capacity by 5%. The second level of Supercharge Shields increases shield capacity to 10% and also increases the duration.

At Combat Level 5, you get access to the third level, called Ultracharge Shields. This skill increases your shield capacity by 10%, just like the previous level, but also increases your shield recharge rate by 10%. At Combat Level 15 you can get the next level of Ultracharge Shields. This level increases your shield capacity to 15% and also extends the duration.

When you reach Combat Level 25, you can choose to spend skill points to acquire Supercharge Target. This skill can be applied to either yourself or another target, and increases shield capacity by 20%. It also carries a slight increase in range and duration.

At Combat Level 35 you can get Ultracharge Target, which acts like Supercharge Target but also gives a 10% boost to the target’s shield recharge rate. It also has slight increases to range and duration.

Finally, Combat Level 45 gives you the choice of obtaining Megacharge Shields. This skill can be used on either yourself or another target. It provides the same 20% boost to shield capacity and 10% increase to shield recharge rate, but also adds 10% to damage resistances. It also has increased range and duration.


Progen Warrior: Shield Sap

This skill allows the player to drain shield energy from a target or group of targets. As the Warrior becomes more skilled in Shield Sap, he is able to add the drained shield energy to his own shields and eventually to the shields of his groupmates. At the highest level of the ability, the Warrior can drain shield energy from multiple targets simultaneously and increase the shield energy of himself and his groupmates.

The first level of this skill is Shield Sap, and it drains a portion of shield energy from a single target. The second skill level increases the range and amount of shield energy drained.



A Progen Warrior saps the shields of two hostiles.
Click for a Larger Version
Upon reaching Combat Level 5, the Warrior can choose to obtain Shield Transfer. This skill drains a portion of a target’s shield energy and transfers it to the Warrior’s shield. Range and amount drained are increased over previous levels. The effectiveness and range of Shield Transfer can be increased upon reaching Combat Level 15, when the fourth level of the skill becomes available.

Group Sap, the fifth level of the skill, becomes available at Combat Level 25. This skill drains shield energy from a single target and transfers a portion of it to all the user’s group members. The effectiveness and range are increased over previous levels.

The sixth level of Shield Sap is called Sapping Sphere. This skill is available at Combat Level 35 and carries an “area of effect” element. The user targets this skill on a primary target, and shield energy will be drained from all valid targets with 1500 units. A portion of that shield energy will be transferred to the Warrior who used the skill.

At Combat Level 45, the Warrior has access to Group Sapping Sphere, which carries the same benefits as Sapping Sphere, but transfers a portion of the sapped shield energy to all members of the user’s group. It also carries increased effectiveness and range, and the area of effect is 3000 units. As with all area of effect skills, the radius is calculated from the target, not the user.

[b]All levels of Shield Sap also have a two-minute residual effect. This means that once the skill is activated on a target, no one, including the original user, can activate the same skill on that target for two minutes. The two-minute timer starts as soon as the skill is first activated.[/b]
[/quote]

Now, as it currently stands, did we ever actually apply the fix so that you can re-use it, just not on the same mob? If not, i will schedule this change. Aside from that, this is what is happening until such time as we decide it is unbalanced. We are using what was there as our baseline after all. Even if this is unpopular, sorry guys, we have to start somewhere.

[jrichards]

Trade xp nerf/bug has made gaining trade xp awful. That combined with what appears to be too low trade xp earned from mob loot has lead me to just do combat and mining.

I posted about this int he bug forums a while ago and discussed it with Kenu but he said he though it felt right. It is definitely more difficult to level trade now, since the October patch, than it was in Live....maybe even as much as 50%.

[Mimir[IS]]

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1325117482' post='50486']
Time to break bad on this once again I suppose...

...

Now, as it currently stands, did we ever actually apply the fix so that you can re-use it, just not on the same mob? If not, i will schedule this change. Aside from that, this is what is happening until such time as we decide it is unbalanced. We are using what was there as our baseline after all. Even if this is unpopular, sorry guys, we have to start somewhere.
[/quote]

Thank you for the reply and stepping in once again.

My problem is that whenever it is discussed it gets thrown in my face that this isn't live, but it is really ALL we have to base what the PW was and could be in the EMU as evident in your post. If you say that the PW is going to be phased out of the role as tank and the PS is going to be phased in then I will shut up and play nice... (When I first started playing the PS was said to be the Tank of the game) didn't really turn out that way. But if the PW is to be the tank in raids and to take aggro and damage then it should have the ability to help keep itself alive and do loads of damage with it's 6 guns. It just seems to me it has been a bit strongly "tweaked" and can't fulfill this role. The claims that a JD can out damage a PW with less weapons (4) then this is terribly wrong, even with tweaks.

[Kyp [LDEV]]

Crichton,

Can you be more specific? What is the bug to which you refer. I may not have been involved in this change. I don't know if this is what you refer to, but the upper limit on xp granted per individual trade good on a run should be maxed out at 550 or 750. I forget which offhand and would have to go look it up, but it is not the 1500-3000 that was being granted earlier this year. We had found evidence of the original value somewhere whenever that change was made.

[Kyp [LDEV]]

a JD should NOT be outdamaging a PW over time, only in 'spike" (aka one-shot) damage. No one should compare to the JD this way, as it was considered the 'assassin' class, much like a rogue in WoW or similar. If it is seriously doing this DPS wise then we need some hard numbers because its going to have to be adjusted here soon. After we make this phase transition the rest of the work is going to be balancing the game until we go live, that's where you're gonna see a majority of the game come back into the line that you remember it.

[Mimir[IS]]

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1325119217' post='50492']
a JD should NOT be outdamaging a PW over time, only in 'spike" (aka one-shot) damage. No one should compare to the JD this way, as it was considered the 'assassin' class, much like a rogue in WoW or similar. If it is seriously doing this DPS wise then we need some hard numbers because its going to have to be adjusted here soon. After we make this phase transition the rest of the work is going to be balancing the game until we go live, that's where you're gonna see a majority of the game come back into the line that you remember it.
[/quote]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQeQKl95zo0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQeQKl95zo0[/url]

[Tienbau]

[quote name='Buller' timestamp='1325112220' post='50474']
Here are some posts on the PW, on this Forum:

Illydar: I was just concerned over the two minute timer. The update info didn't say anything about Group Sap being single target now. *sigh* Posted 16 September 2011 - 01:18 AM

Bellash: Last patch the nerf was that Grav Link and Tanis debuff will no longer stack, this patch yet another Shield Sap nerf . Before all this Turbo nerf and Black Spitter nurf. Whats next? Posted 16 September 2011 - 09:56 PM

ryprx: I haven't even bothered with my PW in the last 6 months or so...no longer the pure warrior, he's been nerfed so badly that a well-equipped same-level JE can now outfight him. I tested this with my own JE at the time.
A freakin JE!! Posted 16 September 2011 - 10:47 PM

lordfalcon: but come on a JE being able to out dps a PW Posted 17 September 2011 - 06:27 PM

HellHas: Will we ever see a fix to the PL reload fire rate?? As only the Black Spitter gets full use of the turbo because it already has a high reload... Posted 03 October 2011 - 11:00 AM

Klyde: What concerns me more than anything else is, the constant attention to "fixing" the PW over the other classes. And, some of the admittedly knee-jerk adjustments. Posted 09 October 2011 - 04:09 PM

Bellash: Well now that the 2 min sap timer is in my PW is using single timer sap so i can maybe use sap on the next mob . Tried this on the 60 drones in BBW. Now i notice that even using this strat sap heals less then 1 k shields. In a raid having more then one PW is just a bad idea. The first PW that saps puts all other PW's on his timer and they cant use their sap for two mins. Combine all this with the turbo nerf that ONLY the progen feel ( 1 sec lowest reload timer) Thats less then 5% turbo for 5 of 6 guns for a PW.Thats just too many nerfs making the PW just not worth playing. Posted 02 December 2011 - 03:53 PM

iamme: I have not logged on for more that a few minutes since shield sap has been messed with. Lets put it back the way it was and make all us PW players happy again. It is just boring as hell. Posted 05 December 2011 - 08:34 AM

iamme: But a JD can slaughter as many as he wants.......thats just not what the game was designed to do. PW is suppose to be the king of battle. Posted 05 December 2011 - 08:39 AM

wonder: Ppl HAVE TO know be4 selecting a class from character creation that the description is a fake: King of combat = PW no! = JD Posted 05 December 2011 - 11:05 AM

Sneakypw: the player advocate job is to bring up issues players are having in game to the devs and then reporting back on whats up. also on nerfing the pws shield, freak said over a month ago he would take the timmer off sap what happen to that Posted 05 December 2011 - 05:49 PM

iamme: If you look at the pic posted above of the in game creator the PW is maxed on offensive and defensive far and above all other classes. This is how is should always be, period. Posted 05 December 2011 - 06:30 PM

will: Sap:
The heal from T3 Group Sap and T5 Group Sapping Sphere is bugged, being reduced per group member, present or not, but still only healing the user. It will also not heal at all if any group member is out of range of the user. Varied results when used ungrouped, but generally not good. Do not rely on these skills for healing atm. Use T2 Shield Transfer and T4 Sapping Sphere until fixed. Posted 09 December 2011 - 08:51 PM

Bellash: As far as the the sap in a raid setting it cant keep up with the JE leech Posted 10 December 2011 - 06:44 PM

Mattsacre: The PW has to sit right up close and take the full fury of the agroed mobs return fire with hampered guns, then to add insult to injury the skill that was added to live, SHIELD SAP to mitigate both the dmg they recieved and to hold aggro in a raid has been constantly toyed/nerfed with. Posted 14 December 2011 - 09:20 AM

Mimir: Maybe the Devs will take this post to heart and "re-tweak" the PWs back? Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:43 AM

lordfalcon Not sure as why you call it ignorant rhetoric. He was stating a fact and the truth about the PW being overly nerfed and very much down graded. It is true and factual. Posted 21 September 2011 - 04:11 PM

Prrekoorb: Sap is fubar,but i think you will find that inversion does work.The gfx start but stop soon after but the skill still activates (it does on my PW),you just have to let it run. Posted 24 November 2011 - 11:20 AM

Like I said "Forget About it" play a JD or a Terran.
[/quote]

most of this is rumour, speculation and exageration. For example the 2 minute timer on shield sap has been gone for months now, yet people still talk about it as though it's there.

As you might be able to imagine, sifting through the folklore for the genuine nuggets of areas of improvement is tricky when there's a barrage of people reporting something that someone told them that happened to a friend.

I am interested in the 1 second reload limit - if that's true it would certainly account for DPS problems.

The shield sap delay is now appropriate to the amount being drained (ie how it was live) the way it was before was totally mucked up because I could sit there with two PW's spamming shield sap and tank every raid, which is clearly fubar. There was no point in having any other classes other than a PW and maybe a JE battery present. And also there was no point in putting anything into any other skill on a PW. It might still need a bit of tweaking.

Shield Inversion - what's wrong with it? Does it not do enough damage? Rather than 'my inversion's broken' please define what you mean by 'broken', without us having to wade through paragraphs of dev-hating.

buffs stacking - this isn't my area but I thought there was a recent-ish fix to enable buff stacking? Did it ever work in the past?

We're trying to get it all working and balanced.

Let's start one thing at a time. With an easy one, shield inversion - what exactly is wrong with it? Could someone start a 'shield inversion - what's up with it' post, detailing just what's wrong with it. I'll lock the post, work on the issues, then unlock when the fix is ready.

thanks,

TB

[Kyp [LDEV]]

That video confirms what I said before, essentially.

PW = Sustained high DPS "mightiest of the mighty"
JD = One-shot highest damage. "a deadly weapons barrage"

and this is what it says in the GDD.

[Mimir[IS]]

[quote name='Kyp' timestamp='1325120898' post='50499']
That video confirms what I said before, essentially.

PW = Sustained high DPS "mightiest of the mighty"
JD = One-shot highest damage. "a deadly weapons barrage"

and this is what it says in the GDD.
[/quote]

It sure took a while to get to us on the same page, now we need to have those players that have shelved their PWs either rightly or wrongly, quit bitching and explain why they feel they are being singled out and what is wrong. I still think that if the rumor of a JD being able to "over time" out damage a PW is true this should be looked at and fixed as the first order of business. I didn't take names but have seen many PWs comment that they have mothballed their PWs and keep them around only as ammo/weapon makers.

Having many PW players keep whining and stay with the EMU playing different characters (the lesser of the two evils) or whine and leave the game is really not acceptable. I don't think we are in a position to knowingly let players leave the game for something that could be rectified fairly easily*. Maybe the PW was overpowered at the start of the ST (but they sure were fun to play) but to under power them either in reality or perceived by the players should be addressed.

* fairly easily means to put them back where they were then tweak with the input of the PWs as it is happening.

[Kyp [LDEV]]

[quote name='Mimir' timestamp='1325122126' post='50504']
* fairly easily means to put them back where they were then tweak with the input of the PWs as it is happening.
[/quote]

The only problem with this, is almost universally a change that takes away from their strength results is:

"OMG THIS SUCKS I HATE DEVS PUT IT BACK KTHXBYE!!!@"

Which is absolutely useless to us, because one way or other, it has to happen. I figure it kinda like ripping off a bandaid, better to start with it sucking and release it until it doesn't suck rather than start with it being Super-Awesome and slowly nerfing it in line.

[Buller]

Sap is nerfed period, (Shield Inversion is a useless skill do not use it).

3 months ago, I am old and retired so I maybe off on time, but I could sit with my PP grouped to my PW, send the PP out and start shooting a 58 volti and backup bringing the 58 to the PW (PW Summons). Once the 58 was in range the PW would start shooting and I would regroup the PP back with the PW with both shooting, guns a blazen. Together they had no problem taking out the 58. Sometimes the PP would go out and bring back 2-58 volti and a 60 volti, not intended, guess what, the PP and PW could take them out, but at some point in the heat of battle I would have to break off shooting with the PP and focus on recharge the PW shields, but never did it get into the PW hull, shield sap was working then, if the PW shields got down to half gone I would hit the top lvl shield sap and it would fill his shields.

The last time I logged a week or so ago, I went to Antares to try the 58-60s again, PW lvl 146 maxed on what matters, PP lvl 150 maxed, pulled up close to the nav ah.. a 58 volti all by himself, slammed on the brakes and commenced firing, hmm, I am losing shields fast on the PW, hit shield sap, huh, I get a tiny bit added to the shields, another 58 shows up guns a blazing, shields on the PW going fast now, I had break off firing with my PP to just concentrate on keeping the PW shields filled, but now the second 58 is firing at the PW, I can not click the Max recharge button fast enough with the PP, they started going into the PW hull, WHAT THE, finally one 58 dies and I was able to get half the PW shields back before the second 58 died. I tried sapping twice more during that battle and just gave up, it is useless the way it is now.

I have 2 lvl 50 JDs do not like playing them, sorry but boring, I also do not like throwing misses at things, again boring. Waiting the extra time to use sap was hard to get use to, but I slowly was able to change my game play to adapt, key word here is “slowly”, did I mention I am old and retired and slow to react to things, that is why I like/liked the PW it is/was fun and it gave me a little room for errors, ya know to be able to lean forward and look at the screen, oh there is that button I need to click, hurry up you old fart shields are going fast, sap em. I always carried around the PP for insurance just in case I was to slow to Sap at the right moment, the PP was the loot picker seeing that all the hulks end up 3.50+K away from the PW, plus if I messed up on Sap timing the PP could charge him up quick and continue looting. WAS a good team, now all the PP is what shield Sap use to be. Yes Sap is useless right now.