Poll: Macros and Multiboxing

[bondct]

Yes I can back up my statement that EnB is a game built upon grouping...

Just look at the skills that each class (individually) has, compare the strengths and weaknesses, then look at the whole system from a big picture. Interdependency is built through out EnB in the classes. No one class is a Solo king, and all do much better in a group, the more diverse the better. No Player trade hall system, no mail system... this demands that Players work together just to get things done.

That's why I say EnB is a "grouping" game, and EnB is one of the few true MMORPGs in existence. Many online games claim the title but few actually have earned it.

sorry, I am not reading the part where you were at the meeting at westwood or ea your choice where these decisions were made... so then anyone who plays solo is what... doomed to pergatory... oh wait... that doesnt exsist anymore... back it up with proof not opinion and conjucture

[bondct]

It is a "grouping" game as all MMORPG's are lol, I guess Avani wants to go back to single player mode.

why is it a grouping game... are you saying that the game cant be played in single player mode... are you judge dred now telling people what they are supposed to do... does anyone have a choice with you around?

[Taallonn]

why is it a grouping game... are you saying that the game cant be played in single player mode... are you judge dred now telling people what they are supposed to do... does anyone have a choice with you around?

Avanti Avanti Avanti....let the lemmings think what they wish. We both know this game can be played multiplayer, or solo. They will be the first to say a class is overpowered because they lost a kill to it, they will be the first to complain that a group of players "stole" their mob. They will eventually learn that there are things you can do in this game solo, and things you can't. They will find the benefit of being in guilds with people that want to help, or they will spend their days wondering why they can't get anything better than vendor loot....You should feel pity for these souls as they have no clue what this game is about but think it resembles abominations like eve or wow, or even lineage and swg. These poor individuals have a preconceived notion of a game they more than likely are trying for the first time!

Eventually they will see that their pathetic meanderings mean absolutely nothing in the grander scheme of things.

[Taallonn]

you all need to reply more, I'm replying to my own folowups........

it's disturbing, makes me seem like a stalker, but hey....maybe I'll catch slayermans post count this way

[bondct]

you all need to reply more, I'm replying to my own folowups........

it's disturbing, makes me seem like a stalker, but hey....maybe I'll catch slayermans post count this way

yeah what he said...

[Daywolf]

Well anyway, like I said before, I’m fine with multi-boxing. Now, what I think would be a good system is that once mission terminals are working that anti-camping rules would be put in place with multi-boxing. In other words, multi-box groups cant hang out in one spot and camp mob‘s. But on the move with missions would be acceptable. This way solo players or actual groups don’t get blocked out of spawns. Then of course mining would be ok too, so having a warrior class to cover in mob spawn mining areas. Additionally, the ability to log more than one character per game account, rather then physical multi-boxing (multi-computer) or using virtual system. But that not being worked on until after mission terminals are working, or there would be just TOO much camping I would think.

[bondct]

camping rules

woot! you said camping rulez

[Taallonn]

woot! you said camping rulez

*goes off to watch season one and two of survivorman** yes it does!

[kyrm347]

sorry, I am not reading the part where you were at the meeting at westwood or ea your choice where these decisions were made... so then anyone who plays solo is what... doomed to pergatory... oh wait... that doesnt exsist anymore... back it up with proof not opinion and conjucture

No, I have never been an Employee of Westwood Studios or Electronic Arts.

I am a solo Player. I do not join Player Associations anymore, nor do I group in MMOs. "In my Opinion" EnB is a grouping MMO far more than it is a Solo one. I never meant to give the impression that anything I say on this forums can be considered "proof" of anything. Anything I say on these forums is always my opinion, just like anything you say is your opinion, just like everyone else here. Only statement by the Developers of this project or a former employee of Westwood and/or EA can ever be considered "official" here on these forums.

So if you are doomed to purgatory, then so am I... we can burn together, you bring the lemonade and I will bring the steaks.

Can EnB be played Solo? Yes it can, and I do it all the time. That does not make it a MMO designed for solo play however.

To me the design of EnB is heavily focused upon promoting group Player activity as compared to Solo Player activity. Since EnB was designed to be a MMORPG back in the days when the title MMORPG actually meant something, then this makes sense to me that EnB is designed this way and I support that even though the game is not designed for a Player like myself. Years ago I preferred Group play and activities in MMOs, but I have changed as a Player and I do not enjoy Group content anymore. I do remember having loads of awesome fun and enjoyment back then, so I believe EnB Emulator should retain the Group Design philosophy that I remember from Live. I support keeping the EnB Emulator project focused upon a mostly vanilla version of the game with the addition of the three unreleased classes, some extra space sectors, and balancing as needed.

If there is somebody that is involved with the EnB Emulator project that was an employee of Westwood or EA I too would desire to hear what decisions were made in regards to your question. If you require Proof that is the only way you will ever get what you seek.

[Daywolf]

woot! you said camping rulez

In RL? Sure, I've spent 1000's of hours backpacking and hiking, mostly in the mountains. I'm an mmog? meh. I prefer quests and missions. Usually, camping to grind is lame, seriously lame. I like group PvP, but PvE questing is by far what I prefer to do more than anything, even to the point of knowing how to script all types of quests heh. I only camp for lack of content. EnBemu of course needs that darn mission terminal, as that was most of my game on Live. Anyway, that was actually anti-camping I said oh well, back to work

[bondct]

So if you are doomed to purgatory, then so am I... we can burn together, you bring the lemonade and I will bring the steaks.

would it be ok if i brought beer instead of lemonade? or was steak not designed to be eaten with that

[bondct]

Usually, camping to grind is lame, seriously lame.

in your opinion... and you still said camping rulez

[kyrm347]

would it be ok if i brought beer instead of lemonade? or was steak not designed to be eaten with that

Oh yes, a good Beer or Ale is always preferable to lemonade, be my guest

[Netromancer]

I have had one time where macro'ing became a problem. A Terran Trader had set up shop in a low level sector and was one-shotting everything around him. Trying to farm faction, I suppose, as he was not looting his kills or doing anything other than firing missiles any time a MOB came within range. These mobs were needed for a quest at a very low level. Due to his weapon range I literally could not snag one of the mobs away from him. Had he been there to talk maybe he could have let the newer characters have a few. Two days later when the server went down and then came back up I and a few others were able to finish our newbie quest.

I don't have a problem with anyone sitting at a spawn spot and killing MOB's, but when it becomes disruptive to several other players it seems problematic to me. Had the dude been at his keyboard at any point the problem could have been solved without having to wait for him to dis-connect.

Others might disagree but I really don't see the point of letting a computer play this game for me. Especially when it infringes on others questing. I guess the question here is,

"Who is more important to the ebb and flow of the game?"

The players actively questing and at their desks or the guy AFK for 2 days letting Macros play for him?

I have a rather fatalistic view on this. In a game that supports this style of play, the answer is that might makes right. Honestly, people are going to do what they will. If this kind of play is a possibility then invariably someone will take advantage of it. Opinions on the matter won't change the fact that it WILL happen unless alternatives are enforced. And I'm sure there are those who disagree and will argue the right of the Macro user to all the mobs in a sector simply because he can outdamage and all else be damned. In this situation however, without word from On High, the simple fact that a player did do this, proves his right to do it. Unfortunate as it may be for others.

[Daywolf]

in your opinion...

Yep, it's my opinion. My opinion is that games where you wind up spending your time camping are games that lack good content. It's tolerable with games that are in development, but once live they should have enough content by way of missions and quests. EnB live was mainly missions for me, which was fine. As an example, I played WoW and ran out of quests and was forced to either grind or do quests from other race areas. EQ is probably the best content driven game, players always know what the goal is when they log in (an important factor when designing games), other than grind camping. Some players like to camp and grind, but really bad games leave you with only that or gaps in the content where you have only that to do for a time.

Anyway, anti-camping is a server side system really, it chokes spawn when a player (and/or his multibox minions) stay in one place for too long, or variations of dealing with it.

[bondct]

Yep, it's my opinion. My opinion is that games where you wind up spending your time camping are games that lack good content. It's tolerable with games that are in development, but once live they should have enough content by way of missions and quests. EnB live was mainly missions for me, which was fine. As an example, I played WoW and ran out of quests and was forced to either grind or do quests from other race areas. EQ is probably the best content driven game, players always know what the goal is when they log in (an important factor when designing games), other than grind camping. Some players like to camp and grind, but really bad games leave you with only that or gaps in the content where you have only that to do for a time.

Anyway, anti-camping is a server side system really, it chokes spawn when a player (and/or his multibox minions) stay in one place for too long, or variations of dealing with it.

Well as the official Ill say anything so long as its the opposite of what someone else says (and have it still be true), cuz for everyone that likes what you like, there is somone who likes exactly the 100% opposite and they are not wrong...

My opinion is that games where you wind up spending your time camping are games that have good content. It's tolerable with games that are in development, but once live they should have enough content by way of camping locations. EnB live was mainly camping for me, which was fine. As an example, I played WoW and never ran outta camping spots cuz i liked to grind from other race areas. EQ is probably the best camping driven game, players always know what the goal is when they log in (an important factor when designing games), other than quests. Some players like to do missions, but really good games content where you can camp all the time.

Anyway, anti-missions is a server side system really, it chokes spawns when a player (and/or his multibox minions) stay in one place for too long running the same missions, or variations of dealing with it.

[KSerge]

I think both macroing and multiboxing are means to an end.

Multiboxing is only popular now because of the lack of players in this large galaxy of E&B. I myself have considered attempting to multibox due to the difficulty in finding a builder, or a group, or a jumpstart. It's just the natural progression of logic. You have a problem that you can remedy yourself, you're going to attempt to do so.

Macroing has really only been used to counter what players find to be "tedious" activities, like farming mobs for a certain item, or farming an asteroid field to gain the elusive exploration experience. I'm not saying I agree with macroing as a solution to these gameplay features being thought of as tedious, but I think if there were alternative methods for players to accomplish these goals without having to macro (explore jobs and faction changing missions) then I would think that macroing would see a downturn in usage.

Some people are going to do these things no matter what, because they want to be 150 right away and have masses of money, removing any semblance of difficulty from the game. To these people, I say, GTFO. You're doing it wrong.

[Mortabis]

sorry, I am not reading the part where you were at the meeting at westwood or ea your choice where these decisions were made... so then anyone who plays solo is what... doomed to pergatory... oh wait... that doesnt exsist anymore... back it up with proof not opinion and conjucture

Avani, you don't have to be a member of the EnB R&D team to know that the game was designed for grouping and multilayer play, its obvious. The game was designed to be played with other players, not to be played as a single player. I am sure anyone that is a part of the emulator project or any former Westwood employees will confirm this. If you want to play a single player game, go play freelancer.

[bondct]

so now you are saying I cant play enb if I wanna play single player? are you saying I cant be successful playing single player? why do so many people here feel the need to tell others what they should do and how they should play... why is it such a bad thing if someone wants to solo enb...

I know a guy in wow we called him team 5-box. he ran 5 accounts at once mostly with macros and ran instances with all him... his toons were at the same level as any other toon that ran a single acct at a time... his toons werent crazy rich... they were all in proportion to the effort he put in (probably even less since 5-boxin has to be hella hard)... and blizzard was fine with it... although here... you would have him put in the iron maiden...

[Mortabis]

so now you are saying I cant play enb if I wanna play single player? are you saying I cant be successful playing single player? why do so many people here feel the need to tell others what they should do and how they should play... why is it such a bad thing if someone wants to solo enb...

I know a guy in wow we called him team 5-box. he ran 5 accounts at once mostly with macros and ran instances with all him... his toons were at the same level as any other toon that ran a single acct at a time... his toons werent crazy rich... they were all in proportion to the effort he put in (probably even less since 5-boxin has to be hella hard)... and blizzard was fine with it... although here... you would have him put in the iron maiden...

Yes you can play single player, but in most MMO's you can't truly play the game by yourself ALL the time and be successful. In fact, you can't really do anything in this world today as a single individual and be successful. Everything that we have done or will do that would fall under the category of being successful requires the work of others in a team. As such, a game such as EnB cannot be created by a single individual alone, it requires team work. So yes, go ahead and play single player, don't ever use groups and boycott goods sold by others players, but I guarantee that you will never achieve the highest achievable goal, end game content.

As for WoW, multi-boxing is MUCH more difficult than multi-boxing in EnB. I have multi-boxed multiple accounts in WoW and have multi-boxed multiple accounts and EnB, there is a difference. And I promise that you will never be able to achieve fully functional status by multi-boxing in Wow. There is really no possible way to 5 man instances by yourself. Or attend raids with 5 accounts. 5 accounts are most useful in PVP for nuking, and only nuking. Typically, players that multi-box 5 accounts in WoW do it only for PVP purposes thus, they generally use Mages or Shamans.

The whole purpose of ANY MMO is to unite players to conquer unique challenges, these challenges usually require large groups and are called raids. I would say its safe to assume that most of the people that play MMO's on a day to day basis have one goal in mind, end game content. I would also say its safe to assume that most MMO developers focus on end game content and the progression there of solely after a game has been launched. This is what separates MMO games from single player games. Single player games typically have a ending, whereas MMO's are constantly evolving and have to in order to keep clients interested in the game.

SO to answer your questions, no and yes.

[Gordo]

so now you are saying I cant play enb if I wanna play single player? are you saying I cant be successful playing single player? why do so many people here feel the need to tell others what they should do and how they should play... why is it such a bad thing if someone wants to solo enb...

I know a guy in wow we called him team 5-box. he ran 5 accounts at once mostly with macros and ran instances with all him... his toons were at the same level as any other toon that ran a single acct at a time... his toons werent crazy rich... they were all in proportion to the effort he put in (probably even less since 5-boxin has to be hella hard)... and blizzard was fine with it... although here... you would have him put in the iron maiden...

I tend to solo mostly, did so in EverQuest all the way to level 60 before they raised the cap. In fact, I refused all guild invites until I felt I had mastered the playing of my toon and his abilities. Never multi-boxed due to cost of another PC, not out of any objection to multi-boxing. I have been told that IRL I am a pretty good guy, fact is though, at least for me, I am not terribly social by nature and have minimal tolerance for asshattery thus, I mostly solo. In years past I have caught some static for this but it's just not in my nature to group hunt a lot. Do I realize that I might miss some high level end game content? Absolutely. Who besides me should be concerned? I agree with Avani in this matter...people really need to chill a bit and adopt a more tolerant attitude. If I choose to solo, or if I choose to multi-box...who is it harming?

[bondct]

The whole purpose of ANY MMO is to unite players to conquer unique challenges, these challenges usually require large groups and are called raids. I would say its safe to assume that most of the people that play MMO's on a day to day basis have one goal in mind, end game content. I would also say its safe to assume that most MMO developers focus on end game content and the progression there of solely after a game has been launched. This is what separates MMO games from single player games. Single player games typically have a ending, whereas MMO's are constantly evolving and have to in order to keep clients interested in the game.

SO to answer your questions, no and yes.

and once again here you are authoritativily (sp?) speaking for the world (as usual)... if I read this correctly, you are saying one day a person woke up and said let me make a video game company called Westwood for the explicit purpose of making an MMO to unite players to conquer unique challenges, these challenges usually require large groups and are called raids. See I always thought the goal of Westwood was not world peace... but to get filthy rich by having a larger company buy there half built games (silly me, like that would ever happen)...

AND... are you also saying that if I want to take on a large event I have to call it a raid... no wonder why I have so much trouble I have been calling it an orgy, well I will change the name right away and start raking in mad delicious lewtz...

and I guess to end... so you are also saying that I cannot be successful solo... who are you to judge what I consider to be successful? are you now taking on the role of success police as well... it's hard to tell from your forum pic, but with all the hats u wear u might start looking into a bigger head???

/note to gordo... great sig quote...

[AZwoodman]

Seems every game I play there is someone or group telling me how to play. Or like in the other game asking you to group with them so they can help you, then kill you and take your equipment.

This is one of the reasons i multibox and don't join guilds. Play when I want, group with the pepole I want to play with and avoid the ones I don't want to play with.

[Mortabis]

and once again here you are authoritativily (sp?) speaking for the world (as usual)... if I read this correctly, you are saying one day a person woke up and said let me make a video game company called Westwood for the explicit purpose of making an MMO to unite players to conquer unique challenges, these challenges usually require large groups and are called raids. See I always thought the goal of Westwood was not world peace... but to get filthy rich by having a larger company buy there half built games (silly me, like that would ever happen)...

AND... are you also saying that if I want to take on a large event I have to call it a raid... no wonder why I have so much trouble I have been calling it an orgy, well I will change the name right away and start raking in mad delicious lewtz...

and I guess to end... so you are also saying that I cannot be successful solo... who are you to judge what I consider to be successful? are you now taking on the role of success police as well... it's hard to tell from your forum pic, but with all the hats u wear u might start looking into a bigger head???

/note to gordo... great sig quote...

I'm not saying you can't play the way you want too, all I am saying is that MMO's are designed for group play, which is a fact. Also I am saying that you won't be able to achieve the same achievements a group can without grouping, which is also a fact.

/target Avani

/FACEPALM

[PirateLad]

I'm not saying you can't play the way you want too, all I am saying is that MMO's are designed for group play, which is a fact. Also I am saying that you won't be able to achieve the same achievements a group can without grouping, which is also a fact.

Actually, many (most?) MMOs will have both solo and group content. This is a deliberate design to avoid the extremes of either forcing players into grouping or keeping them apart. Nowhere does the word "group" or "solo" appear in MMO (Multiplayer does not mean group). An MMO is just a game that allows many players to play at the same time and interact. While grouping is one method of interaction, it can also be through chatting, trading, PVP, organizations, a marketplace/auction hall, etc.

E&B provides interaction through groups, guilds, chat channels, ability to trade, etc. It also provides solo content, though. While it does not force anyone to group that doesn't want to group, those that never want to group have to realize that there will be some content unavailable to them as it requires a group. The choice, though, is still up to the individual player and is a simple one: group and experience the group content, or only play solo and miss out on the group content.

There are those players that feel that they always need to group in order to have fun. There are players who feel they need to play solo to have fun. Many players fall in-between to some degree and will group or go solo depending on what they are doing. All of these are valid play styles that E&B supports.